EPTComputer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread - Page 50
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Ropid
Germany3557 Posts
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Cyro
United Kingdom20343 Posts
Therefore it doesn't make any sense at all to spend most of your budget on going with it, on a system you intend to game on that has a weak graphics card. A gtx660 doesn't belong in a 1.5k+ build, not even close. That kind of weakness (and especially not oc-ing) could allow somebody with a fraction of your budget to beat you in performance in a majority of games (with fewer, faster cores and a stronger graphics card) which is what you want to avoid. If you don't know the hardware inside out and particularly want to focus on having the ~25-35% stronger multithreaded performance at the expense of a lot of budget (stronger graphics etc) and some singlethreaded performance, then it's very rarely worth it to do Also Rollin, Bf4 is CPU bound to the extent that on 4770k@4.6ghz, 95'th percentile FPS is below 60 on 720p with some settings turned down, and it scales like +15% with HT. Didn't think i'd say it, but for a battlefield-only system, going lga2011 before going past 60hz screen and single gpu (7970/770 tier) seems to be the only sensible thing to do | ||
Vykromond
United States230 Posts
Questionnaire: + Show Spoiler + What is your budget? About $1250. What is your monitor's native resolution? 1920 x 1080 What games do you intend to play on this computer? What settings? I would like for the computer to run any modern game for the next 1.5-2 years or so, though I'm not obsessed about running games on highest settings (obviously not, since this thing is 4 years old). What do you intend to use the computer for besides gaming? The #1 thing is streaming. The computer must be capable of streaming Dota 2 at high or highest settings. I'm not concerned about streaming other games, it's a nice to have at most. My day job doesn't require an especially powerful computer, but I will be doing some video encoding/editing as part of the whole Dota 2 thing. Do you intend to overclock? I've never done it before, but I'd probably be willing to in order to maximize performance. Heat is a concern for me as I've had overheating issues with past machines, although surely I built them terribly. Do you intend to do SLI / Crossfire? No. Do you need an operating system? No. Do you need a monitor or any other peripherals and is this part of your budget? My budget is $1250. If I can save on components while maintaining budget and not unduly adversely affecting performance, I would love to fit additional peripherals in so that I can keep my old machine and gift it along with its peripherals (with priority to picking up a keyboard/mouse, monitor is less important), but if necessary I can make do with no additional peripherals. What country will you be buying your parts in? USA Manufacturer/etc preferences I have no preferences outside of what will give me the best performance for value. My understanding is that AMD processors are a no go for relatively high end stuff, for instance, and I've been given to understand also that streaming, especially through OBS (my streaming programme of choice), is CPU limited, so I don't really want to scrimp on that if I can afford to. Tentative part list I made through PCPartPicker. I tried to follow some of the more recent or general recommendations in the OP and recent posts in the thread. + Show Spoiler + CPU: Intel Core i7-4770K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor ($279.99 @ Microcenter) CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-U12P SE2 54.4 CFM CPU Cooler ($68.98 @ SuperBiiz) Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z87X-D3H ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($132.98 @ SuperBiiz) Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($79.99 @ Newegg) Storage: Samsung 840 Series 250GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($159.00 @ Adorama) Storage: Seagate Barracuda 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($94.98 @ SuperBiiz) Video Card: MSI Radeon HD 7970 3GB Video Card ($299.99 @ Newegg) Case: Rosewill BlackHawk ATX Mid Tower Case ($76.50 @ Newegg) Power Supply: Rosewill Hive 750W 80 PLUS Bronze Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply ($59.99 @ Newegg) Total: $1252.40 (Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.) Anywhere that I went obviously wrong? Things I can save on to gain better features elsewhere? Areas where I went too high end/too low end for my budget/needs? Any sort of input or feedback would be helpful. | ||
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Ropid
Germany3557 Posts
Choose NH-U12S or better NH-U14S over NH-U12P. U12P is an older design and its two fans don't do more for performance than the newer design of U12S and its single fan. Try to see if you can find a 2x4GB memory kit for a similar price but higher speed than 1600 MHz. It's not really worth it to pay more, but the CPU can still get something out of the higher speed and you might have simply not looked at the prices for 1866, 2000, 2133, 2400 MHz RAM. Buy one of the "Capstone" Rosewill PSUs instead of the "HIVE". Go and look in their specs and see what both can do for 12V (multiply the 12V with the Ampere mentioned and you'll get the possible Watts). You'll see that "HIVE" is one of those dishonest products that gets sold at higher numbers than what it can actually do. A 450W Capstone is better than a 550W HIVE. I think you can buy something very cheap as graphics card for Dota2. | ||
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Vykromond
United States230 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + CPU: Intel Core i5-4670K 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($199.99 @ Microcenter) CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-U14S 55.0 CFM CPU Cooler ($75.99 @ Newegg) Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z87X-D3H ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($132.98 @ SuperBiiz) Memory: G.Skill Sniper Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1866 Memory ($82.99 @ Newegg) Storage: Samsung 840 Series 250GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($159.00 @ Adorama) Storage: Seagate Barracuda 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($99.99 @ Newegg) Video Card: Gigabyte Radeon HD 7970 3GB Video Card ($313.98 @ Newegg) Case: Rosewill BlackHawk ATX Mid Tower Case ($76.50 @ Newegg) Power Supply: Rosewill Capstone 550W 80 PLUS Gold Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply ($89.99 @ Newegg) Total: $1192.41 Switching from the HIVE PSU pushed my budget out a bit, so I brought the wattage down because PCPartPicker estimates my wattage needs at only 448, which a 550W PSU shouldn't have too much trouble with? Is this a bad idea? Going higher than 1866 clock speed on the RAM issued a compatibility warning with the voltage recommendations of the processor so I went with the 1866, which as you said was barely a price difference. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20343 Posts
You might want to drop GPU a bit too, depending on other options, and 550w is still overkill on a unit like capstone if there's good pricing on a 450 etc | ||
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Vykromond
United States230 Posts
edit: With the EVGA card it looks like this. I upped the memory speed with the extra budget room. I couldn't get the 450W PSU to actually be cheaper by more than like $3 when considering NewEgg combo deals so I gave up. + Show Spoiler + CPU: Intel Core i5-4670K 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($199.99 @ Microcenter) CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-U14S 55.0 CFM CPU Cooler ($75.99 @ Newegg) Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z87X-D3H ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($149.98 @ Newegg) Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-2133 Memory ($84.99 @ Newegg) Storage: Samsung 840 Series 250GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($159.00 @ Adorama) Storage: Seagate Barracuda 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($99.99 @ Newegg) Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 760 2GB Video Card ($255.91 @ Newegg) Case: Rosewill BlackHawk ATX Mid Tower Case ($76.50 @ Newegg) Power Supply: Rosewill Capstone 550W 80 PLUS Gold Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply ($89.99 @ Newegg) Total: $1150.34 | ||
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dabom88
United States3483 Posts
PCPartPicker part list: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/1L3dJ CPU: Intel Core i7-4770K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor ($327.98 @ Outlet PC) CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-U14S 55.0 CFM CPU Cooler ($73.19 @ Amazon) Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z87X-D3H ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($132.98 @ SuperBiiz) Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws X Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1866 Memory ($126.92 @ NCIX US) Storage: Samsung 840 Series 250GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($159.00 @ Adorama) Video Card: Gigabyte Radeon HD 7970 3GB Video Card ($299.99 @ NCIX US) Case: Fractal Design Arc Midi R2 (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case ($64.99 @ Newegg) Power Supply: Rosewill Hive 750W 80 PLUS Bronze Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply ($59.99 @ Newegg) Operating System: Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 (OEM) (64-bit) ($85.87 @ Outlet PC) Total: $1330.91 | ||
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Incognoto
France10239 Posts
On October 05 2013 16:43 skyR wrote: It's listed alphabetically so... not really helpful. What do you mean? Ctrl+F helps find anything specific. Sorry I'm probably missing something. ^^ Edit: I could be wrong btw so i'll just ask. For a single GPU set up, isn't 750w overkill? Even with a 4770k. Edit 2: What's wrong with a good 7970 if you can afford it? I guess if it's just for Dota 2 and it has been said that the graphics card doesn't need to max settings on games, then 7970 is overkill. Though for 50$, in a $1000+ gaming/streaming system, I don't see what's wrong with going a little overboard with the graphics card. Of course, money is money so it's always good to save that. My € 0,02. ^^ | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20343 Posts
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Ropid
Germany3557 Posts
On October 05 2013 19:22 Incognoto wrote: Edit: I could be wrong btw so i'll just ask. For a single GPU set up, isn't 750w overkill? Even with a 4770k. It's way overkill. It's also more than what you need for two cards, I'm pretty sure, but that Hive 750 supplies 648W on 12V for CPU+GPU according to this spec sheet: http://www.rosewill.com/products/1802/ProductDetail_Specifications.htm It's 12V * 54A = 648W. I don't know how it works exactly, guessing the highest possible power use for two cards. Perhaps 100W + 250W + 250W = 600W? I think it's a lot lower in reality. This PSU might be a good choice if it's a good model that's guaranteed to not explode and take parts in the PC with it. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20343 Posts
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Incognoto
France10239 Posts
Anyway, I need advice for something a bit weird, this is a PC I'm thinking of building: + Show Spoiler + + Show Spoiler + What is your budget? Hard to say. Let's say 500€ but we could go over. This shouldn't be too expensive. What is your monitor's native resolution? 1650x1050. I'll be getting a monitor probably. What games do you intend to play on this computer? What settings? No games aside maybe some FS2004. I won't be getting a video card I don't think it's needed. What do you intend to use the computer for besides gaming? I'll get to that after this part since it's a bit complicated. Do you intend to overclock? No Do you intend to do SLI / Crossfire? No Do you need an operating system? Yeah Do you need a monitor or any other peripherals and is this part of your budget? Monitor, yes. Sound card is also required I think. Maybe something else but I'm not sure yet. It will be in the budget. If you have any requirements or brand preferences, please specify. No What country will you be buying your parts in? France If you have any retailer preferences, please specify. amazon.fr So, this is the idea of the computer I'm planning on building. My dad always expressed the desire to have a sound system that he could control remotely from his bed. Basically, there are two nice speakers in his room, if he wants to play an album, he has to get out of bed, take the CD, pop it in, etc. Fuck that. The idea is that the music is on a hard drive (or SSD, I'll get to that later). From his bed with a remote (maybe an ipod or some shit like that? idk), he could choose what music to play. The system would then play the music which is on the hard drive on the speakers. Now, I realize that such a thing probably already exists (probably needs an ipod or something). However, I want it to be a desktop PC with a good sound card instead of a dedicated sound system. This is because in our house, our laptops for some reason can't connect to the ethernet network in rooms far from our router. However, both my old desktop and my new desktop can connect to that ethernet network. So I have access to the internet from my room with my desktop whereas my parents with their laptops are forced to go downstairs and use the wifi in the kitchen. I want my parents to have internet in their bedroom and I know that a desktop motherboard with its ethernet drivers has the ability to connect the network properly whereas laptops (for some reason) can't. I want the hard drive to be an SSD because I want my parents to be impressed with how their new desktop will load all of its shit really fast. My parents don't game so a graphics card won't be needed. I think the only game my dad might play would be Flight Simulator 2004, which is a pretty old game, so I think the integrated graphics of a good motherboard should be sufficient. Since the PC will only be used for playing music (on a great sound card though, I also have yet to choose a good one) and browsing the web, it doesn't really need high-end parts. I've been thinking of using a low end Ivy-Bridge processor. It's a generation older so it's cheaper than a low end Haswell processor and it's not like this system needs amazing performance (maybe I should get a low end Haswell?). The SSD will work to make the computer feel very fast. My current build (sound card will change once I figure out what's a good buy): http://fr.pcpartpicker.com/p/1L4xq i3-3220: Since it's a PC for web-browsing and music playing, I really think that only 2 cores are needed. It should also run the computer quite nicely. I want the PC to feel really fast but it doesn't need a lot of power for that. MSI B75MA-E33: Just a motherboard which should hold everything together. It has a slot for the sound card we're getting and it might fit a video card if some day we need one (probably not). 4 Gb of RAM: Should be more than sufficient for this build. Samsung 840 Series 120 Gb SSD: The only storage on this computer will be the SSD because I think the only thing this computer will be storing is music and perhaps some pictures. Probably no games. Thing is, we already have external HDs and if this computer ever needs more storage it's not like it would be complicated to just buy another HD. Sound Card: Not sure what it's going to be yet but it should be a card that plays music in really high quality. This card should also allow the PC to hook up to the speakers or already-existing sound system (not sure how it's going to play out, this part). Fractal Design Core 1000: Cheapest case worth anything? I was really happy with mine when I built my last PC. DVD Writer: Will be essential for getting all the music my parents have on CDs (there's quite a fuckton tbh) on the hard drive. Antec Earthwatts EA-380D: HUGE OVERKILL. Seriously couldn't find a PSU with lower wattage more adapted to this PC. I also need a high-quality budget monitor. Seriously, for what this PC is going to do it doesn't need a great monitor. A good one at a low price would be good, though I'm probably better off asking in the monitor thread. Now, I'm pretty sure that everything I've described up until now should be feasible without any problem whatsoever, except for the interface. I'm not sure how my dad could control the PC from his bed and I'm not sure how he could see what music he's choosing on a (standard) monitor. This is where I'm stumped and I'm really looking for solutions. Cheers, sorry for walls of text. Edit: I mean something like this actually: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=cz.rozkovec.android&hl=en Google gave me something to work with but I would still rather hear what actual people have to say. | ||
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Ropid
Germany3557 Posts
This board has like a million features including WIFI and the integrated graphics on those A-series AMD processors is reportedly pretty good: http://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/FM2A88X-ITX / EDIT: This one has a header for infrared ("CIR header"): http://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/FM2A85X-ITX/?cat=Specifications It can't use the newest A-series CPUs, I think, wrong socket. | ||
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Incognoto
France10239 Posts
On October 05 2013 21:51 Ropid wrote: I've seen headers for an infrared receive on motherboards. Perhaps look into that? I don't know how it works. This board has like a million features including WIFI and the integrated graphics on those A-series AMD processors is reportedly pretty good: http://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/FM2A88X-ITX / EDIT: This one has a header for infrared ("CIR header"): http://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/FM2A85X-ITX/?cat=Specifications It can't use the newest A-series CPUs, I think, wrong socket. That looks pretty interesting hmm. However I think i might be paying for a lot of features that I won't use. Nonetheless, I think what I'm looking for is definitely that sort of thing. + Show Spoiler + Edit: How can the processor cost only 50€ ? http://www.amazon.fr/AMD-AD5300OKHJBOX-A-Series-Dual-Core-Version/dp/B0095VPBM2/ref=pd_bxgy_computers_text_y http://www.amazon.fr/ASRock-FM2A85X-ITX-Motherboard-Mini-ITX-Sock/dp/B00B5LI1G8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1380978075&sr=8-1&keywords=FM2A85X-ITX Edit 2: Yeah, the more I look at the FM2A85X-ITX, the more I'm starting to like what I hear. I have 2 qualms with it though. Firstly, where does the sound card fit in? Can I put a sound card into a PCI slot large enough for video cards? http://content.hwigroup.net/images/products_larges/174155/1/asrock-fm2a85x-itx.jpg Second, where does the possibility of remote control come into play? Do I have to buy a remote control or something? How easy is it to use? Edit 3: OK, so after a bit of searching I found this: http://content.hwigroup.net/images/products_larges/174155/1/asrock-fm2a85x-itx.jpg So, if I understand correctly, with the motherboard you suggested, it's possible to control Windows Media Player using a remote such as this one. This is because the motherboard is equipped with an IR receiver that allows the remote to interact with it. Good. Remaining problem is how you make sure you can see what's on the monitor from far away. I also still want the possibility of adding an aftermarket sound card to the system. Edit4: Put other edits in spoilers since this post is becoming unreadable. I did even more research. I ended up finding that it's possible to purchase IR remote controls that can be plugged into USB ports. This is an example of one. If I understand correctly, a remote control such as this can easily be used to use Windows Media Player. WMP is apparently as good a music player as anything, what really matters for music quality is the type of file being read. Using .wav files to copy CDs onto our hard drive is what's going to allow us to obtain high quality music (I think). In terms of ergonomy, I think WMP can be configured so that in fullscreen it's possible to easily the different music files. This pretty much fixes my ergonomy problems, I think. Thoughts? | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20343 Posts
Only downside really is it's not supported natively by like apple stuff, maybe windows media player too. It's got widespread support though. If you're forced to use another format, it's ok, you can convert between lossless formats without any quality loss anyway Maybe i'm not being helpful, just wanted to throw it out there because i havn't seen wav used for lossless audio in a long long time | ||
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Incognoto
France10239 Posts
On October 05 2013 23:05 Cyro wrote: FLAC is superior to .wav (or mostly superior), they're both lossless (same quality) but FLAC achieves much lower file sizes and allows for tagging etc. Only downside really is it's not supported natively by like apple stuff, maybe windows media player too. It's got widespread support though. If you're forced to use another format, it's ok, you can convert between lossless formats without any quality loss anyway Maybe i'm not being helpful, just wanted to throw it out there because i havn't seen wav used for lossless audio in a long long time I have an audiophile friend who I just talked to. He told me that the real difference in sound quality is achieved through hardware (ie good soundcard, good headphone/speakers) and how well the artists recorded their music. He said he doesn't really hear the difference between lossless file types like .flac or .wav and lossy ones such as .mp3. I'll just go with what he says for now (taking into account your advice that .flac > .wav) and if I ever get the proposed PC up (this is still 100% theory), I'll test all this stuff myself. ^^ Anything to add to using an ordinary PC with a usb IR remote control? I was interested in the ASRock FM2A85X until I saw that the final build was a bit more expensive than what I was originally going for and I don't like the idea of using a miniATX board instead of a microATX one. I was also turned off by the price of the miniATX board as well as the fact that the miniATX board only had one PCI slot that might not even fit in a sound card. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20343 Posts
He said he doesn't really hear the difference between lossless file types like .flac or .wav and lossy ones such as .mp3 Good lossy audio can be close to lossless, like 320k mp3's etc, and if you don't have good equipment and ears you might not notice difference, or even with it still not notice a difference on a lot of audio, but lossless is kinda a guarantee of quality (as long as the source is good quality) while there's quite a lot of bad mp3's etc out there All lossless audio formats sound the same by definition, FLAC is just like half of the file size and aparantly has support for tagging etc | ||
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Metak
296 Posts
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Incognoto
France10239 Posts
On October 05 2013 23:36 Cyro wrote: Good lossy audio can be close to lossless, like 320k mp3's etc, and if you don't have good equipment and ears you might not notice difference, or even with it still not notice a difference on a lot of audio, but lossless is kinda a guarantee of quality (as long as the source is good quality) while there's quite a lot of bad mp3's etc out there All lossless audio formats sound the same by definition, FLAC is just like half of the file size and aparantly has support for tagging etc That makes a lot of sense actually, thanks. I've been thinking about it, if it's possible to get a media player like VLC to work so that it's possible to use it while being 4 meters away from the monitor (meaning you can see what you're doing from far away and the remote control can be used to navigate through the library), I might use that and .flac files instead of .mp3 and WMP. Anyway, this is the sort of thing I should probably look into once everything has been hooked up and ready to go. In the mean time, thanks a ton for clearing all of that up. Back to the actual computer: http://fr.pcpartpicker.com/p/1L495 There's no problem in getting a processor and motherboard a generation old (from the little I know, Ivy-Bridge processors are still great processors) to save money, is there? No problem either in having only a 120 Gb SSD to put Windows and the music on? Total music shouldn't go over 50 Gb I'd wager, which leaves at least 60 Gb for anything else they might need. The idea is that my parents are going to be amazed at how fast the computer boots. Getting this SSD should do more to make the computer feel nice and fast than anything else, correct? The other possible set up is this one: http://fr.pcpartpicker.com/p/1L7Md It's a tad more expensive than the first one and something I don't quite like is that the motherboard is so small (only one PCI slot). Pretty sure I won't be getting it but I'll still ask as someone might point out something I haven't taken into account. Only good thing I can think of is that this might run games better on integrated graphics but I'm not even sure that's needed. | ||
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