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United Kingdom20321 Posts
And would an i3 be able to handle in-home game streaming?
TBH i don't have any idea what they are -actually- doing for the in-home game streaming stuff. I don't know if they've gone over it or not. If there's a lot of CPU load, a 4570+ (quad core) would be safer, but i really don't have a clue here
On the PSU, the EVGA 500w is only $5 cheaper... but I guess if the 600w doesn`t have any real upside, that`s still $5
I'd drop for $10, but maybe not $5 :D
500w or 600w psu when you're drawing like 200w is just pretty irrelevant. I have a 550w PSU over a 450w, but there are two reasons for that:
1; there are few quality PSU's below 450w and cost savings are usually minor
2; i'm actually drawing enough power to be a bit stressful for a 450w PSU; using a system that has a 4770k and 980 at high overclocks as well as a hard drive and eight fans, many being high powered. Remarkably though, it could still probably run on a great quality 450w PSU - so that says a lot about a system with a CPU that will use half to 1/3 or so as much power as mine, and a GPU that will use half as much power assuming you overclock it to the moon.
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Hmm, i dont know if this is the right place to ask, if not i apologize in advance.
I recently installed a new motherboard (z77 extreme4) and after installing my CPU cooler on it i noticed it has a slight bend on the motherboard (top left corner-ish), i installed it anyway and everything has been running fine, but it has me concerned a little, are these things sturdy, or could i expect it to fail after weeks/months of use?
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It looks like there's a $10 shipping for newegg though... but yeah will keep what you said in mind for the PSU... I'll get the 500w one if its $10 cheaper... if not, I guess the 600w won't hurt and I've read that as PSUs gets older, they lose some efficiency?? at least I have a lot of extra room for that -- which I'll take if I don't have to pay extra for it :D
I think I'll go for the i5, which was my original preference anyway... a little overkill for now but I would really rather not have to upgrade and end up spending more money in the long run...
Plus I just saw that NVidia is now bundling Witcher 3 with the GTX 960! I'll actually have a game (and a free one too) that can make use of the i5.
I also found that my original mobo (MSI H81M P32) only had PCIe2.0... will go with the ASRock H97 Anniversary mobo instead
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United Kingdom20321 Posts
On March 19 2015 23:31 issh wrote:
Hmm, i dont know if this is the right place to ask, if not i apologize in advance.
I recently installed a new motherboard (z77 extreme4) and after installing my CPU cooler on it i noticed it has a slight bend on the motherboard (top left corner-ish), i installed it anyway and everything has been running fine, but it has me concerned a little, are these things sturdy, or could i expect it to fail after weeks/months of use?
Should be fine. I don't see any flexing at all with my case, mobo and cooler. Just don't drop it from arms height (or mail it, where it will be dropped 15 times) with the cooler installed
I've read that as PSUs gets older, they lose some efficiency??
They can handle a little less wattage, that was mostly a thing with old and bad PSU's that could degrade a lot and degrade in time scales that were significant with regular user demands on them
Originally Posted by shinji2k
It's always bugged me that outervision included capacitor aging, without explaining what you should be setting it to. If you buy a PSU with quality caps (pretty much all Japanese caps), then capacitor aging is a non-issue in the time-scale we are talking about. Five years is a pretty long life for a PSU, many of us move on long before then. Even in five years and with reasonable operating conditions, quality caps will barely degrade at all. If you buy a PSU with only decent caps (like decently rated Taiwanese caps such as Teapo or even CapXon) then I would probably go with the 10-20% you suggested for cap aging. If you buy a PSU with junk caps, I would go much higher. But then, you really shouldn't be buying a PSU with a ticking time bomb.
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CapXon are deemed good caps? First time I've heard that.
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United Kingdom20321 Posts
idk, maybe better than some of the trash out there. I don't know much of the PSU internals stuff
On March 19 2015 20:17 iTzSnypah wrote:Deadspace³ For obvious reasons.
Why Deadspace? The ³ is a nice touch :D my GPU temps after 1 hr testing in ~17-20c room are stabilized at 65c using 2500rpm (out of 4200) on g1 cooler (with ~230-250w power draw), case closed (with sp120 under the gpu at full speed, it's only a slightly warm pocket of air that forms instead of getting really hot, so temps stabilize really fast and stay down :D)
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On March 14 2015 22:51 Cyro wrote:I missed a few posts sry Don't buy that stuff, mostly bad. The CPU and GPU particularly Show nested quote +Any reccomendations for 120 or 240 gb ssd under $150?
this one is really cheap right now on tigerdirect: Sandisk I'm not really up to date so recently it's just been mx100 all the things. Just don't touch a v300 or an 840 (regular or evo)
But i only want to play brood war \ starcraft 2 and heroes of the storm, shouldn't that be enough? Also i run every single game on low settings, i like that way.
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United Kingdom20321 Posts
The GPU is so bad that there's no reason to buy it over integrated graphics, pretty much. I don't remember particular benchmarks, but it's well beyond the point where it makes sense to buy a discrete GPU.
For CPU, it's not good. Starcraft 2 and heroes of the storm use the same engine, and it doesn't run great. It doesn't scale past 2 CPU cores, and it demands for them to be fast for you to have a good and somewhat consistent experience. The cheapest CPU that you should buy is a g3220. It's of a much, much faster architecture, clocked 1.5x higher and overall would run those games at like 3x as high FPS (i'm not even exaggerating) - but it costs ~$59.
The graphical settings that you use in these 2 games do not impact performance when you're CPU bound, and turning them down doesn't help any system to avoid FPS getting lower later in the game or when there are many units or when action happens etc.
You should never buy a Kabini CPU for anything where performance is a factor on desktop. It's AMD's mobile CPU line, used for tablets and laptops that are low end and seeking battery life over performance
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United Kingdom20321 Posts
Regarding GPU, the fans face downwards and blow air to the bottom
The fans suck air FROM the bottom. With the windforce model, there are not even any vents on the back, all of the air comes out of the sides of the heatsink on the card and sits around it.
With those style of GPU's, it's best as far as i know to provide positive pressure (significantly more intake than exhaust in the case with one or more intakes near the gpu, like a front bottom intake) and have side panel exhaust. For 970's i'd actually recommend the MSI Gaming edition, because it has the same support for overvolting etc, has idle fan off and low RPM support, manages to get a lot of the heat out of the back of the case etc. It's easier to support without having a high airflow setup.
I was initially much for the Gigabyte G1 970, but that card is substantially worse than the g1 980, it's too high priced relative to competition IMO (more expensive than the windforce, msi gaming etc) and the whole GPU binning thing doesn't actually give consistently good results for consumers - there are some cards out there doing 1600mhz at 1.2v, while i have a friend with a G1 who can't do 500mhz at 1.25v, so it's ultimately down to silicon lottery more than which card you buy for how well it will OC. It's nice to have good VRM and memory cooling, but cut to cost cutting on 970's, pretty much all of them are bad anyway and it doesn't affect actual performance in a significant way. Add in a few things like the fans not being able to go below ~1000rpm (while msi gaming goes to 600 and allows you to turn them off completely on a temperature trigger) and it doesn't look so great for the added cost. Actually, you used to not be able to turn it down below 1600rpm! I think they improved it since then with an official bios revision.
You should get this mobo IMO - http://pcpartpicker.com/part/gigabyte-motherboard-gaz97xgaming5 - or maybe even a cheaper one. That's $30 cheaper than the gaming-7 and you don't have to bother with rebate. The gaming-7 had a good price on some other site, but still >$20 more expensive and shipping around from a bunch of sites like pcpartpicker will have you do by default isn't very fun.
It's worth getting that RAM or something similar IMO (~2133c9, 2400c10 @1.65v etc) - ~5% performance boost in sc2, heroes of the storm and several other games vs 1600c9, even if you're not doing anything like rendering with cinema 4d where it helps.
For PSU you should get something good with 4x 6+2 pin if you want to SLI, or just a good ~450w unit. 450w is fine for a system like that, 550 is maybe nice to have if you plan on keeping it for a long time and getting a high end GPU in the future etc
With the money you saved, you should probably get a stronger CPU cooler. Can't remember the good ones for money off the top of my head but I think it's HR-02 Macho rev.a (bw) ? Just know that the Hyper 212X isn't that great and probably not strong enough to cooler your CPU.
yuss, spend the money to get a good midrange air cooler instead of low end budget thing
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA4UF1W87430 for example
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Semi-modular/full-modular is not really a must, it's just nicer for cable management and I am kinda lazy about it. I'm buying from retail shop in Singapore actually, and there are quite limited options. So I go with the "when in doubts, buy Seasonic" kind of mentality. There is indeed CM V650 available here, at roughly $10 cheaper. There is also this SuperFlower HX-600 SF-600P14XE, but it's rarer to find. All 3 are within budget, so I am more concern about getting the best one.
Regarding CPU Cooler, same issue with limited options. I got a list of more commonly available cooler here + Show Spoiler +Price in SGD ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/zuzKDy6.png)
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United Kingdom20321 Posts
Yea it's alright, just not great. You also have to know a little more about what you're actually doing with thermal paste, because of the heatpipe direct touch design.
That choice and pricing kinda sucks
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On March 20 2015 22:05 Cyro wrote:The fans suck air FROM the bottom. With the windforce model, there are not even any vents on the back, all of the air comes out of the sides of the heatsink on the card and sits around it. With those style of GPU's, it's best as far as i know to provide positive pressure (significantly more intake than exhaust in the case with one or more intakes near the gpu, like a front bottom intake) and have side panel exhaust. For 970's i'd actually recommend the MSI Gaming edition, because it has the same support for overvolting etc, has idle fan off and low RPM support, manages to get a lot of the heat out of the back of the case etc. It's easier to support without having a high airflow setup. I was initially much for the Gigabyte G1 970, but that card is substantially worse than the g1 980, it's too high priced relative to competition IMO (more expensive than the windforce, msi gaming etc) and the whole GPU binning thing doesn't actually give consistently good results for consumers - there are some cards out there doing 1600mhz at 1.2v, while i have a friend with a G1 who can't do 500mhz at 1.25v, so it's ultimately down to silicon lottery more than which card you buy for how well it will OC. It's nice to have good VRM and memory cooling, but cut to cost cutting on 970's, pretty much all of them are bad anyway and it doesn't affect actual performance in a significant way. Add in a few things like the fans not being able to go below ~1000rpm (while msi gaming goes to 600 and allows you to turn them off completely on a temperature trigger) and it doesn't look so great for the added cost. Actually, you used to not be able to turn it down below 1600rpm! I think they improved it since then with an official bios revision. You should get this mobo IMO - http://pcpartpicker.com/part/gigabyte-motherboard-gaz97xgaming5 - or maybe even a cheaper one. That's $30 cheaper than the gaming-7 and you don't have to bother with rebate. The gaming-7 had a good price on some other site, but still >$20 more expensive and shipping around from a bunch of sites like pcpartpicker will have you do by default isn't very fun. It's worth getting that RAM or something similar IMO (~2133c9, 2400c10 @1.65v etc) - ~5% performance boost in sc2, heroes of the storm and several other games vs 1600c9, even if you're not doing anything like rendering with cinema 4d where it helps. For PSU you should get something good with 4x 6+2 pin if you want to SLI, or just a good ~450w unit. 450w is fine for a system like that, 550 is maybe nice to have if you plan on keeping it for a long time and getting a high end GPU in the future etc Show nested quote +With the money you saved, you should probably get a stronger CPU cooler. Can't remember the good ones for money off the top of my head but I think it's HR-02 Macho rev.a (bw) ? Just know that the Hyper 212X isn't that great and probably not strong enough to cooler your CPU. yuss, spend the money to get a good midrange air cooler instead of low end budget thing http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA4UF1W87430 for example
I am buying everything from retailer shops in Singapore actually. In term of price it is indeed worth saving some bucks, but the Gaming 7 is more widely available here than the Gaming 5, so I guess I am paying more to save the time and trouble of going around finding Gaming 5 mobo
GPU wise, I will take a look at MSI ones, there are MSI OC, Gaming and Gaming Golden Ed, got any difference between them? Also only plan to OC CPU, probably just leave the GPU alone. A GTX980 is too expensive and I guess it way too overkill if only to play SC2 and Heroes of Might and Magic
Regarding the case, so for optimal cooling, as of now R5 case has 1 front intake fan and 1 rear exhaust fan. should I add 1 more front intake fans and 1 side panel exhaust fan to it? What size of fan should be nice?
edit: some Cooler Master Cooling fans are on sales at the moment + Show Spoiler +
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United Kingdom20321 Posts
The OC is worse; the gaming, gaming gold and gaming 100 million edition are functionally pretty much identical, AFAIK
Maybe something like a second front intake, a bottom intake and side exhaust (120mm fans, but 140mm if they fit - 140mm is ~1.38x larger than 120mm in area)
intake fans only move a fraction of the air that exhaust fans do when they have to pull through a door, hard drive cage, when their air supply is somewhat closed off or even if they have to pull air through a filter
You don't have to worry that much about airflow with "only" an i5 at a low to moderate overclock + a 970, you can get by with far less than perfect (though a second intake wouldn't hurt)
idk if those jetflow fans are any good
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Appreciate the helps.
As my friend has no relevant knowledge in this area, I pretty much will do the OC-ing for him and leave it to his own usage, so I guess better cooling will help a long way. I was kinda worry about the GPU hot air pocket for the Gigabyte G1. Switching to MSI Gaming would save some money, although Golden Ed is $50 more expensive than MSI Gaming so I am not sure if it's even worth. Is TwinFrozr still got problems? I remember they were bad for some reason but not exactly sure what.
About CPU Cooler, my take was that Hyper 212X is somewhat adequate for 4.3GHz as I dont know if going to 4.5GHz and above will cause any problem that my friend cant handle. Those Noctua Coolers have pretty good reviews, but so expensive though T__T.
Just realize side panel of Define R5 doesnt have dust filter. At least the bottom got full dust filter so I guess it's reasonable to have bottom intake fans if needed
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United Kingdom20321 Posts
I was kinda worry about the GPU hot air pocket for the Gigabyte G1
It happens with every GPU, any mid or high end GPU is a heater of considerable power that's being held in a little box. It's just that the msi twin frozr 5 design puts an unusually high amount of heat out of the back instead of into the case, while the windforce/g1 design puts an unusually low amount (no vents at all at the back, it's just engineered for maximum cooling potential when supplied with very high airflow and running fans at high RPM's - though that's not neccesary for a 970)
The golden edition is not worth $50 extra IMO, and i don't think there's any problem with twin frozr. There's moderately high memory and VRM temperatures on pretty much all of the 970's (or even all) but that doesn't actually affect much.
If you have positive pressure in your case, then you only need dust filters on your intakes. That's why positive pressure is quite good to have; dust buildup can be pretty shockingly fast, and it's very easy to clean a few filters every ~1-20 weeks, it's not so easy to get dust from being caked into every heatsink and on random surfaces because you had no filters at all
It's not really possible to judge the clock speed attainable with a given cooler because of the silicon lottery - you could say, for example that motherboard X and cooler Y could run 1.25v fine, but then 1.25v might give 4.3ghz on one CPU and 4.7ghz on another. There's quite a lot of variance (though less on 4790k's, which are very expensive and have special treatment). The voltages that you use determines the load on the cooler and the motherboard
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United Kingdom20321 Posts
https://www.themoneyismine.ca/
DRAM class action thing in canada
Live from the PCGH test lab: For Nvidia Geforce GTX Titan X is the first mod BIOS is available that removes the power limitations of the GM200 graphics card. PC Games Hardware has released version flashed on an appropriate model and the whole thing Arctic Accelero Xtreme provided with an IV. The result: stable 1,550 / 4,001 MHz (GPU / VRAM).
Exact benchmarks, we are currently preparing, but it is clear now that the Titan X is extremely fast at these frequencies works - 40 to 50 percent higher frame rates than ordinary GTX 980 graphics cards are the rule.
the real consumption of the overclocked GTX Titan X is thus ~ 350 to ~ 400 watts.
Pretty much everything i said confirmed >__>
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But I never doubted you cyro-senpai. 
There's a lot of good information on oc.net but there are also a lot of fanbois and also people who are too sure of what they say. ah well
slap some radiators on that card and let it really get going
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/qm0h8zl.png)
![[image loading]](http://images.hardwarezone.com/gallery/thumbs/0/sg/2015/it-show-2015/coolermaster-thermal.jpg)
