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Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread - Page 448

Forum Index > Tech Support
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When using this resource, please read the opening post. The Tech Support forum regulars have helped create countless of desktop systems without any compensation. The least you can do is provide all of the information required for them to help you properly.
Cyro
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom20322 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-01-31 10:35:47
January 31 2015 09:47 GMT
#8941
It really is still a good card, but with only that 3.5GB of VRAM



^2:05 - 2:10 demonstrates my experience, but with another game. More VRAM is needed, but it refuses to hit even 3.5GB (3584MB) and instead it drops stuff from VRAM to load new stuff, causing very obvious stuttering as expected when out of VRAM. Since the game allocates more VRAM than it needs, the problem doesn't neccesarily show up when the 980 is only showing ~3600-4096MB allocated, even though there's 3584MB of actual RAM.

The 980 has ~14.3% more, RAM, so if a game allocates 4GB but stays stutter free on 3.5GB, that means the 980 could play it stutter free with ~4.57GB allocated on a Titan or a 290x 8GB.

The lack of performance issues when stuff allocates 3.51-4GB of VRAM to other cards is not really that the extra VRAM is slower (if it's even used) it's just some games allocating more than they actually need.

Since the 970 runs alright on stuff that doesn't need the VRAM but allocates more, some people have taken that for a safety net or the extra VRAM working correctly; but that's obviously false because when you demand the extra RAM and actually use it, it behaves exactly like a 3.5GB card (or even worse, due to a driver issue with the implementation of the two memory pools and when to cache; the system memory won't be used before the VRAM cache in any circumstance, which means that you can overload your 3.5GB of VRAM in a situation that doesn't allow the 0.5GB of cache to be used, which then doesn't allow you to use system memory, so it just hard crashes the application/game.
"oh my god my overclock... I got a single WHEA error on the 23rd hour, 9 minutes" -Belial88
nunez
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Norway4003 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-01-31 10:17:09
January 31 2015 10:16 GMT
#8942
On January 31 2015 18:36 Incognoto wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 31 2015 08:23 Cyro wrote:
On January 31 2015 04:54 Incognoto wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +


satire on the 970 situation


:D :D

Some partnership/deal with xfx and discounts for 970 owners but it doesn't seem like a great deal. Even if i had decided to go with a 290, i probably wouldn't take an xfx card just because of a small discount


the only two R9 290 models i would consider would be the Tri-X and the Vapor-X from Sapphire.

That or a GTX 970, which is still a great card if you don't go over the 3.5 Gb of VRAM by the looks of it.

I'm still doing quite well with my 7970 with only 3 Gb of VRAM so I'm fine for now really.



i think maybe my (xfx) 7970 is having some troubles...
a shame because i thought it was serving me well.

when i tax it a bit with openCL the computer either dies like i pulled the plug,
or screen is freezes to an image, even though i can shut it down, and the
logs look like nothing happened. i can run the same stuff perfectly fine on my
HD6000M something, with the same driver (14.12) and same CL SDK (3.0.0 beta).

with the xf86 driver and mesaOpenCL it is a bit more stable, but dies just the same
when the load gets a bit heavy.

i think i need to get a new card... was looking at the 290 Tri-X,
there was a discount at my goto outlet.
conspired against by a confederacy of dunces.
Cyro
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom20322 Posts
January 31 2015 10:28 GMT
#8943
On January 31 2015 19:16 nunez wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 31 2015 18:36 Incognoto wrote:
On January 31 2015 08:23 Cyro wrote:
On January 31 2015 04:54 Incognoto wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
https://www.youtube.com/watch?x-yt-ts=1422579428&v=spZJrsssPA0&x-yt-cl=85114404


satire on the 970 situation


:D :D

Some partnership/deal with xfx and discounts for 970 owners but it doesn't seem like a great deal. Even if i had decided to go with a 290, i probably wouldn't take an xfx card just because of a small discount


the only two R9 290 models i would consider would be the Tri-X and the Vapor-X from Sapphire.

That or a GTX 970, which is still a great card if you don't go over the 3.5 Gb of VRAM by the looks of it.

I'm still doing quite well with my 7970 with only 3 Gb of VRAM so I'm fine for now really.



i think maybe my (xfx) 7970 is having some troubles...
a shame because i thought it was serving me well.

when i tax it a bit with openCL the computer either dies like i pulled the plug,
or screen is freezes to an image, even though i can shut it down, and the
logs look like nothing happened. i can run the same stuff perfectly fine on my
HD6000M something, with the same driver (14.12) and same CL SDK (3.0.0 beta).

with the xf86 driver and mesaOpenCL it is a bit more stable, but dies just the same
when the load gets a bit heavy.

i think i need to get a new card... was looking at the 290 Tri-X,
there was a discount at my goto outlet.


What power supply (model name) do you have? That's very relevant for both your 7970 troubles and future 290.

for example i have a superflower golden green hx 550
"oh my god my overclock... I got a single WHEA error on the 23rd hour, 9 minutes" -Belial88
nunez
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Norway4003 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-01-31 10:36:23
January 31 2015 10:34 GMT
#8944
corsair ax790!
and i actually have the infamous 8 core fx, mahaha.

do you reckon it will give provide enough juice?
conspired against by a confederacy of dunces.
Cyro
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom20322 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-01-31 10:37:54
January 31 2015 10:36 GMT
#8945
Tried underclocking GPU a bit? try 5-10% on core and memory, at the same voltages

And yes
"oh my god my overclock... I got a single WHEA error on the 23rd hour, 9 minutes" -Belial88
nunez
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Norway4003 Posts
January 31 2015 10:37 GMT
#8946
i did not, that is a good idea.
i will try it.
conspired against by a confederacy of dunces.
nunez
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Norway4003 Posts
January 31 2015 11:54 GMT
#8947
even with ~20% underclocking it still breaks down,
when the temp creeps up (~80 C) and it starts cranking
up the fans after sitting on full load for a while.
conspired against by a confederacy of dunces.
Incognoto
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
France10239 Posts
January 31 2015 13:44 GMT
#8948
that's kind of hot o_o
maru lover forever
Cyro
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom20322 Posts
January 31 2015 14:11 GMT
#8949
It is kinda hot for a 7970 depending on airflow, cooling and the quality of the cooler etc. My 970 uses about 190w or so and i keep that below 65 at all times (usually 50-60), though i use 2.2k RPM on the twin frozr 5 to do that, because there's a 2% performance drop if you let it hit about 68-69c and it annoys me. I don't even have airflow particularly around the GPU area ATM, but it's not enclosed in a super tight space or anything
"oh my god my overclock... I got a single WHEA error on the 23rd hour, 9 minutes" -Belial88
Hyren
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States817 Posts
January 31 2015 15:42 GMT
#8950
So I'm starting to look at preliminary upgrades for my rig...like next black friday preliminary, but who knows some random sale too juicy to pass up could happen.

Out of curiosity I was wondering what I would be best off upgrading first or if I'm pretty much going to have to upgrade the video card and the CPU at the same time to get any real benefit. This is my current pc: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/c79Qf7
Power-tripping mod for Trump's stream
Myrmidon
Profile Blog Joined December 2004
United States9452 Posts
January 31 2015 16:58 GMT
#8951
Depends what you use the computer for.

There's not going to be a CPU with substantially better performance available anytime soon (this year, next, etc.) unless you're hitting 3+ cores, and you'd need a motherboard and probably RAM upgrade for anything way far out anyway. If you upgrade it in the nearish future, you'd be looking at a Core i5 that just has a couple more cores, which seems like a waste of the i3. R9 270 is still current generation. You won't find spectacularly better performance without upgrading a tier or two up.

This is really soon to be thinking about an upgrade, in terms of when these parts were available. It would feel more justifiable if you originally deliberately chose a $70 Pentium or $100 video card. Now you'd mostly be throwing money into moving up the product stack from somewhere in the middle to somewhere higher, which is cost inefficient.

But if the current hardware can't handle what you need it to do, then you can't worry too much about sunk costs.
crisperrgk
Profile Joined November 2010
United States8 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-01-31 17:05:37
January 31 2015 17:01 GMT
#8952
Hi all

hoping I can receive some assistance in upgrading my build. My knowledge of PC is limited but I did build this myself (using youtube). My objective is to play star craft on ultra settings online.
See PC build below and thanks in advance!

What is your current build?
AMD phenom tm II X6 1075T processor 2.70 GHz
8gb ram
Geforce GT 640

What is your monitor's native resolution?
1920x1080

Why do you want to upgrade? What do you want to achieve with the upgrade?
I'd like to be able to play star craft 2 on Ultra settings. I only use this PC for star craft and work so not looking to optimize for other games

What is your budget?
My max is $400 but I'd like to purchase on a budget

What country will you be buying your parts in?
USA

If you have any brand or retailer preferences, please specify.
Microcenter, Newegg, Amazon.
Cyro
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom20322 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-01-31 17:11:35
January 31 2015 17:09 GMT
#8953
On February 01 2015 02:01 crisperrgk wrote:
Hi all

hoping I can receive some assistance in upgrading my build. My knowledge of PC is limited but I did build this myself (using youtube). My objective is to play star craft on ultra settings online.
See PC build below and thanks in advance!

What is your current build?
AMD phenom tm II X6 1075T processor 2.70 GHz
8gb ram
Geforce GT 640

What is your monitor's native resolution?
1920x1080

Why do you want to upgrade? What do you want to achieve with the upgrade?
I'd like to be able to play star craft 2 on Ultra settings. I only use this PC for star craft and work so not looking to optimize for other games

What is your budget?
My max is $400 but I'd like to purchase on a budget

What country will you be buying your parts in?
USA

If you have any brand or retailer preferences, please specify.
Microcenter, Newegg, Amazon.


gtx750 should be fine, maybe even a 750ti or 960 (it's extremely overkill by that point) if you feel super adventurous, but the 960 requires a 6 pin pci-e power connector and a more decent PSU

you won't have more FPS on ultra than you have on minimum settings now, though, it would just allow you to turn up graphics settings and maintain that FPS that you already have. You have low FPS at times now due to CPU performance (sc2 is heavily reliant on singlethreaded performance and phenom II at 2.7ghz is very slow compared to recent CPU's)
"oh my god my overclock... I got a single WHEA error on the 23rd hour, 9 minutes" -Belial88
Hyren
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States817 Posts
January 31 2015 17:15 GMT
#8954
On February 01 2015 01:58 Myrmidon wrote:
Depends what you use the computer for.

There's not going to be a CPU with substantially better performance available anytime soon (this year, next, etc.) unless you're hitting 3+ cores, and you'd need a motherboard and probably RAM upgrade for anything way far out anyway. If you upgrade it in the nearish future, you'd be looking at a Core i5 that just has a couple more cores, which seems like a waste of the i3. R9 270 is still current generation. You won't find spectacularly better performance without upgrading a tier or two up.

This is really soon to be thinking about an upgrade, in terms of when these parts were available. It would feel more justifiable if you originally deliberately chose a $70 Pentium or $100 video card. Now you'd mostly be throwing money into moving up the product stack from somewhere in the middle to somewhere higher, which is cost inefficient.

But if the current hardware can't handle what you need it to do, then you can't worry too much about sunk costs.


I use it mostly for gaming, I guess I'm starting to worry that a year from now I'm not going to be running the big triple a titles at decent settings anymore. I guess I'd probably be better off waiting more like 2 years and more or less building from scratch.
Power-tripping mod for Trump's stream
Cyro
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom20322 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-01-31 17:29:00
January 31 2015 17:26 GMT
#8955
On February 01 2015 02:15 Hyren wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 01 2015 01:58 Myrmidon wrote:
Depends what you use the computer for.

There's not going to be a CPU with substantially better performance available anytime soon (this year, next, etc.) unless you're hitting 3+ cores, and you'd need a motherboard and probably RAM upgrade for anything way far out anyway. If you upgrade it in the nearish future, you'd be looking at a Core i5 that just has a couple more cores, which seems like a waste of the i3. R9 270 is still current generation. You won't find spectacularly better performance without upgrading a tier or two up.

This is really soon to be thinking about an upgrade, in terms of when these parts were available. It would feel more justifiable if you originally deliberately chose a $70 Pentium or $100 video card. Now you'd mostly be throwing money into moving up the product stack from somewhere in the middle to somewhere higher, which is cost inefficient.

But if the current hardware can't handle what you need it to do, then you can't worry too much about sunk costs.


I use it mostly for gaming, I guess I'm starting to worry that a year from now I'm not going to be running the big triple a titles at decent settings anymore. I guess I'd probably be better off waiting more like 2 years and more or less building from scratch.


We're still kinda on the 2012 GPU gen. There's some 28nm maxwell GPU's out (Nvidia hasn't released the high end chip yet) and prices have dropped but it's mostly the same stuff. Same architecture and manufacturing process for AMD, just wait until there is actually new stuff.

That's actually kinda sad.
"oh my god my overclock... I got a single WHEA error on the 23rd hour, 9 minutes" -Belial88
bt
Profile Joined March 2013
United States24 Posts
January 31 2015 17:30 GMT
#8956
Building a pure gaming rig. I don't want anymore then it would take to run sc II/any other competitive game on Ultra\Highest settings minus reflections, physics, effects @ 1920x1080 144mhz with only cpu overclock.

I would rather stay in the 680, 780, 980 linear, just standard flagship gpu release, the same with the rest of the components, just standard flagship release from whichever component manufacturer.

I did wonder about single core vs single threaded speed and if it meant anything, but if the i5 is the cheapest way toward a competitve gaming rig then whatever. Every other component should fall in line with the "best in class" line of thought. And to be honest, I truly wanted to put faith into the g3258/gtx 750/1600 memory, I mean it's a dream come true a good chip that can run competitve games at that resoulation and monitor frequency. Is that combo not at all the way to go for serious hardcore competitve gaming, is it at all in the leagues of the i5/970/2133c9? the i5/980/2400c10?

gaming rig
cpu
mb
gpu
psu
ssd
hdd
memory
case
air cooling
soundcard/headset

and if you would please, your recommendation for this system as well

workstation rig mostly photography, video, image, text, similar to the gaming rig

cpu
mb
gpu
psu
ssd
hdd
memory
case
air cooling
soundcard

no real price range just go the gold standard, hardest hitters in the class

regards
crisperrgk
Profile Joined November 2010
United States8 Posts
January 31 2015 17:38 GMT
#8957
On February 01 2015 02:09 Cyro wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 01 2015 02:01 crisperrgk wrote:
Hi all

hoping I can receive some assistance in upgrading my build. My knowledge of PC is limited but I did build this myself (using youtube). My objective is to play star craft on ultra settings online.
See PC build below and thanks in advance!

What is your current build?
AMD phenom tm II X6 1075T processor 2.70 GHz
8gb ram
Geforce GT 640

What is your monitor's native resolution?
1920x1080

Why do you want to upgrade? What do you want to achieve with the upgrade?
I'd like to be able to play star craft 2 on Ultra settings. I only use this PC for star craft and work so not looking to optimize for other games

What is your budget?
My max is $400 but I'd like to purchase on a budget

What country will you be buying your parts in?
USA

If you have any brand or retailer preferences, please specify.
Microcenter, Newegg, Amazon.


gtx750 should be fine, maybe even a 750ti or 960 (it's extremely overkill by that point) if you feel super adventurous, but the 960 requires a 6 pin pci-e power connector and a more decent PSU

you won't have more FPS on ultra than you have on minimum settings now, though, it would just allow you to turn up graphics settings and maintain that FPS that you already have. You have low FPS at times now due to CPU performance (sc2 is heavily reliant on singlethreaded performance and phenom II at 2.7ghz is very slow compared to recent CPU's)


Thanks! I think I'll go for the 960 and update my power supply as well. I don't suffer slow FPS at the moment so this should be fine. If at some point I'd like to update my CPU what would you suggest I purchase to replace the phenom II? Also, do you think getting a solid state drive would also assist with regards to performance?
Shield
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Bulgaria4824 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-01-31 17:43:13
January 31 2015 17:42 GMT
#8958
On February 01 2015 02:38 crisperrgk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 01 2015 02:09 Cyro wrote:
On February 01 2015 02:01 crisperrgk wrote:
Hi all

hoping I can receive some assistance in upgrading my build. My knowledge of PC is limited but I did build this myself (using youtube). My objective is to play star craft on ultra settings online.
See PC build below and thanks in advance!

What is your current build?
AMD phenom tm II X6 1075T processor 2.70 GHz
8gb ram
Geforce GT 640

What is your monitor's native resolution?
1920x1080

Why do you want to upgrade? What do you want to achieve with the upgrade?
I'd like to be able to play star craft 2 on Ultra settings. I only use this PC for star craft and work so not looking to optimize for other games

What is your budget?
My max is $400 but I'd like to purchase on a budget

What country will you be buying your parts in?
USA

If you have any brand or retailer preferences, please specify.
Microcenter, Newegg, Amazon.


gtx750 should be fine, maybe even a 750ti or 960 (it's extremely overkill by that point) if you feel super adventurous, but the 960 requires a 6 pin pci-e power connector and a more decent PSU

you won't have more FPS on ultra than you have on minimum settings now, though, it would just allow you to turn up graphics settings and maintain that FPS that you already have. You have low FPS at times now due to CPU performance (sc2 is heavily reliant on singlethreaded performance and phenom II at 2.7ghz is very slow compared to recent CPU's)


Thanks! I think I'll go for the 960 and update my power supply as well. I don't suffer slow FPS at the moment so this should be fine. If at some point I'd like to update my CPU what would you suggest I purchase to replace the phenom II? Also, do you think getting a solid state drive would also assist with regards to performance?


I've recently bought an SSD, and I can tell for sure that it helps with performance. For example, Windows 8 (Windows 7 should be fine too) starts faster and programs also load faster. It also helps antivirus scanners as they do a lot of reading.
Cyro
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom20322 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-01-31 18:06:56
January 31 2015 18:05 GMT
#8959
^just doesn't help with FPS or graphical settings

If at some point I'd like to update my CPU what would you suggest I purchase to replace the phenom II? Also, do you think getting a solid state drive would also assist with regards to performance?


Anything Haswell, i5 if you don't want to lose multithreaded performance. Skylake should release later this year and be better
"oh my god my overclock... I got a single WHEA error on the 23rd hour, 9 minutes" -Belial88
Myrmidon
Profile Blog Joined December 2004
United States9452 Posts
January 31 2015 18:46 GMT
#8960
On February 01 2015 02:30 bt wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
Building a pure gaming rig. I don't want anymore then it would take to run sc II/any other competitive game on Ultra\Highest settings minus reflections, physics, effects @ 1920x1080 144mhz with only cpu overclock.

I would rather stay in the 680, 780, 980 linear, just standard flagship gpu release, the same with the rest of the components, just standard flagship release from whichever component manufacturer.

I did wonder about single core vs single threaded speed and if it meant anything, but if the i5 is the cheapest way toward a competitve gaming rig then whatever. Every other component should fall in line with the "best in class" line of thought. And to be honest, I truly wanted to put faith into the g3258/gtx 750/1600 memory, I mean it's a dream come true a good chip that can run competitve games at that resoulation and monitor frequency. Is that combo not at all the way to go for serious hardcore competitve gaming, is it at all in the leagues of the i5/970/2133c9? the i5/980/2400c10?

gaming rig
cpu
mb
gpu
psu
ssd
hdd
memory
case
air cooling
soundcard/headset

and if you would please, your recommendation for this system as well

workstation rig mostly photography, video, image, text, similar to the gaming rig

cpu
mb
gpu
psu
ssd
hdd
memory
case
air cooling
soundcard

no real price range just go the gold standard, hardest hitters in the class

regards

Depends which games you consider competitive but banking on a dual core long term is asking for trouble already with many titles. I won't list specific products and exact links to pricing now because it looks like you're just planning now or getting an idea. The first price is what I would usually recommend; the second is closer to best in class or at least premium.

Gaming:
Core i5-4690k ($220)
Z97 motherboard ($125 / $200) -- better than lowest end, to support decent overclocking
R9 290 / GTX 970 or better ($250-325 / $525)
reputable 500W power supply ($60 / $120)
SSD if wanted ($60+ for 120 GB / $170 for high-end 250 GB that won't help for gaming)
hard drive of enough capacity ($50+)
2 x 4GB DDR3 at say 2133 MHz or higher ($70) -- the rate actually doesn't matter much at all but more if overclocking
reasonable case ($50+ / $150)
reasonable heatsink for CPU overclocking ($30 / $80)
soundcard ($0+ / $150)
headset ($30+ / $300)

Workstations depend heavily on the exact software and workflow. For some, 16 GB of RAM is plenty. For others, 64 GB might not be enough. Getting 6 or 8 cores may not be worth the extra hundreds of dollars or not. Fast storage with backups may be more important than compute power. You need to know what you need and what's holding you back now.
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