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On November 22 2014 15:51 Cyro wrote:
Yes
Reference speed 970's are around 1200mhz core with 7000mhz memory
The good overclocking cards (Giga g1, msi gaming 970) regularly hit 1550mhz on the core, 8000 memory (or a bit lower, maybe higher)
4.4ghz is also considered pretty low for sandy bridge (people regularly complain about Haswell not clocking as high because they "only" usually do about 4.6-4.7ghz without using more dangerous levels of voltage)
oh hmmmm. How much more heat would the GPU (or if I pushed my cpu a little farther) actually generate? I know that's a common concern. I only have air cooled system. As it is it my cpu's highest recorded temp has been 54 degrees Celsius(pretty low I think).
How would you safely gauge your increased temperature from overclocking? Just go slow and then stress test it ?
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United Kingdom20322 Posts
On November 23 2014 00:31 Ravensong170 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2014 15:51 Cyro wrote:
Yes
Reference speed 970's are around 1200mhz core with 7000mhz memory
The good overclocking cards (Giga g1, msi gaming 970) regularly hit 1550mhz on the core, 8000 memory (or a bit lower, maybe higher)
4.4ghz is also considered pretty low for sandy bridge (people regularly complain about Haswell not clocking as high because they "only" usually do about 4.6-4.7ghz without using more dangerous levels of voltage) oh hmmmm. How much more heat would the GPU (or if I pushed my cpu a little farther) actually generate? I know that's a common concern. I only have air cooled system. As it is it my cpu's highest recorded temp has been 54 degrees Celsius(pretty low I think). How would you safely gauge your increased temperature from overclocking? Just go slow and then stress test it ?
Yea. My 970 at max OC (~1.25v >1500mhz core, 8200 memory) never passes about 66c, usually 60 but i run an extremely aggressive fan profile, i might be able to make that even better with a good case fan setup (but i use an air540). 54c is freezing for CPU, you can get up to 70's while maxing all cores with video encoding for example and be fine.
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On November 23 2014 00:36 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2014 00:31 Ravensong170 wrote:On November 22 2014 15:51 Cyro wrote:
Yes
Reference speed 970's are around 1200mhz core with 7000mhz memory
The good overclocking cards (Giga g1, msi gaming 970) regularly hit 1550mhz on the core, 8000 memory (or a bit lower, maybe higher)
4.4ghz is also considered pretty low for sandy bridge (people regularly complain about Haswell not clocking as high because they "only" usually do about 4.6-4.7ghz without using more dangerous levels of voltage) oh hmmmm. How much more heat would the GPU (or if I pushed my cpu a little farther) actually generate? I know that's a common concern. I only have air cooled system. As it is it my cpu's highest recorded temp has been 54 degrees Celsius(pretty low I think). How would you safely gauge your increased temperature from overclocking? Just go slow and then stress test it ? Yea. My 970 at max OC (~1.25v >1500mhz core, 8200 memory) never passes about 66c, usually 60 but i run a very aggressive fan profile. I might be able to make that significantly better with a good case fan setup (but i use an air540). 54c is freezing for CPU, you can get up to 70's while maxing all cores with video encoding for example and be fine.
oh ok. Well I should push my cpu a little further then. thanks for the info. I've just been paranoid about cooling and heat generation since this is my first build and I every other prebuilt dell/alienware/hp comp I've ever had burnt out. (one laptop had a nicely melted mobo......)
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United Kingdom20322 Posts
Laptops are routinely underbuilt to have smaller size, lower weight etc and run very high temps regularly at stock (like 80-90 or even temperature throttling on CPU isn't that uncommon) and some oem desktops with high powered graphics cards just don't have basic airflow to match the components, if you keep stuff under control it's not a problem
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I'm using 8GB and I've had it crash because out of memory multiple times. I'll admit that I was watching a stream in the background and had a bunch of browser tabs open. But that game is a real memory hog.
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Modern games do take a lot of RAM, but video cards of that class - 970/290+ have 4 gigs of ram and mitigate such issues at least for now. Keep in mind that since consoles have a max of 8 gigs of ram and "HDｔｅｘｔｕｒｅｓ＂ do not exceed 3 gigs yet, generally 8 gigs is enough and there's no real reason to buy more for the moment. For him it makes far more sense to get a single 300 dollar+ card and then upgrade the rest of the system when needed in 2 or so years when the i7 2600 is no longer good enough and when DDR4 RAM becomes mature.
I have 16 gigs of ram and running DAI on Ultra @ 1440p + 2nd monitor with streams does not consume more than 6 gigs of RAM on full load with a 970
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United Kingdom20322 Posts
On November 22 2014 22:27 Incognoto wrote:
i can't verify what i say but i've heard that vishera FX processors are hot power hogs
an i3 at 3.4+ GHz will out-perform that FX-6300 in single-threaded applications (e.g. gaming), won't need a heatsink and will be able to use a cheaper H81 or B85 motherboard than the fx-6300.
fx6300 vs i3/g3258 is a real choice, can't condemn anyone either way (unless it's for certain uses, like i3/pentium is unsuited for a video encoding rig, while fx is unsuited for someone who wants mmo/rts to run great)
intel for higher singlethread performance (particularly g3258), fx is good multi though especially with a lightish, cheap overclock (70% encoding performance of an i5 4690k)
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It does seem like the current console generation is pushing design towards quad cores, though. There are reports of Far Cry 4, DAI, etc. doing mean things to dual cores like crashing out or very poor performance when faced with two logical cores.
The problem with the FX-6300 is that you can't really upgrade it to anything worthwhile for gaming without changing the motherboard. At least with an Intel dual core, you can upgrade it within socket to a quad core. That would just waste a lot of money.
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hmm yes but our friend said he wanted a mostly gaming rig so i decided that video-encoding was secondary.
of course that would make overclocked pentium that much more interesting over an i3 i guess
vishera at 4.5 GHz does indeed approach haswell at 3.6 GHz in terms of single-thread performance in a few benchmarks, though haswell still comes out on top.
on the other hand i'm pretty sure that overclocked fx-6300 with the heatsink and motherboard needed to do that is more expensive than i3/pentium with an H81M motherboard.
E: oh didn't see your post myrmidon
i didn't realize games were becoming more efficient with quad cores over dual cores. then again these boards really like blizzard games :p
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United Kingdom20322 Posts
On November 23 2014 03:11 Incognoto wrote:
hmm yes but our friend said he wanted a mostly gaming rig so i decided that video-encoding was secondary.
of course that would make overclocked pentium that much more interesting over an i3 i guess
vishera at 4.5 GHz does indeed approach haswell at 3.6 GHz in terms of single-thread performance in a few benchmarks, though haswell still comes out on top.
on the other hand i'm pretty sure that overclocked fx-6300 with the heatsink and motherboard needed to do that is more expensive than i3/pentium with an H81M motherboard.
E: oh didn't see your post myrmidon
i didn't realize games were becoming more efficient with quad cores over dual cores. then again these boards really like blizzard games :p
Dragon Age actually see's heavy scaling onto 8 cores which is probably the first game. It blows bf4 scaling away, Many games see some scaling onto 4+ cores but they don't actually benefit heavily - two cores of 3ghz would be better than four of 2ghz, for example, with the same CPU arch. Unless scaling is almost completely parallel, fewer faster cores will always be better, but the extent that they are better than more, slower cores depends on how well the app can scale onto those cores, which is about actual performance gains and not just how much they are used.
It's easy to make something use 2x as much CPU, but only run 1.2x faster for the effort, for example
Graphs:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/6xDcwoZ.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/qcOzqor.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://cdn.overclock.net/5/51/513b8db4_http--www.gamegpu.ru-images-stories-Test_GPU-RPG-dragon_age_inquisition-test-DragonAgeInquisition_proz_proz.jpeg)
Funny to note, Nvidia directx11 outperforms mantle, and both beat radeon dx11 significantly (but the scaling seemed more flat than other games)
first game to use 8 threads well:
fx8350 @4ghz+turbo = 77% cpu load, 81fps
5960x @3ghz+turbo = 50% cpu load, 140fps
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who made dragon age inquisition? give the coders a raise :o
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United Kingdom20322 Posts
I will take note, i didn't look at this before, but it looks like even in that game, OC pentium or stock i3 would outperform the 6300. I'm not aware of any that react particularly badly to having 2 cores; at least, any that react badly to a pentium/i3, but not also equally badly to 4-thread fx. If 6 threads are used well, the 6300 is flat out way better though. Problem is just that it's worse if they're not, so it's not a straight upgrade, it's more like ocpentium/i3 vs fx6300 fighting out below the i5 pricepoint
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On November 23 2014 05:20 Incognoto wrote:
who made dragon age inquisition? give the coders a raise :o
Bioware (well-known series include Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect, Star Wars: The Old Republic, and Dragon Age). More or less the most well-known Western RPG developer, though personally I'm more partial to BG than the rest.
It should be noted that—and I definitely had to look this up—DA: I uses EA Digital Illusions CE's Frostbite 3 game engine, which supports Mantle, of course. EA Digital Illusions CE is responsible for Battlefield, and BF4 was the first to use Frostbite 3.
I guess if you're making the engine do enough somethings, it can really hit CPU cores.
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Hello TL tech folks,
You have all been immensely helpful in the past and I call on your opinions once again as I search for a graphics card.
What is your current build?
i5-4670
MSI H81M-P33 (micro-ATX)
8GB DDR3-1600 RAM
1TB HD
CX500M semi-modular PSU (500w)
Case CM Storm Scout (plenty of room inside)
What is your monitor's native resolution?
1080p
Why do you want to upgrade? What do you want to achieve with the upgrade?
I want to upgrade from no graphics card to a graphics card. Intel HD 4600 seeing me fine so far but now have spare money and desires.
What is your budget?
Around £150 (purchasing in the UK)
Uses: moderate level gaming on mid settings (SC2, LoL, Indie stuff, and the odd higher tier games on the cheap via steam); high/ultra settings on triple A not a concern.
I'm looking at:
R9 270X
GTX 760
R9 280
(Alas I can't justify spending on a GTX 970)
https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/parts/video-card/#c=164,142,147,167&sort=a0
My first question is whether this choice of cards raises any eyebrows re compatibility with my set-up/general knowledge about what else is available. Power-wise I think I would not even push 300w. What are your thoughts on this selection?
Secondly, pretty much my choice of brand will determined by price - from reviews on these cards there seems to be not very much in it between brands; I'm familair with MSI, Gigabyte, ASUS and EVGA - but I keep seeing the Sapphire R9s at around £30 cheaper, what is missing?
Finally, slightly unrelated - I notice that the GTX 750 Ti 2GB is only £106 atm, and it's clock speed is 1.1 to 1.22Ghz, compared to the higher end stuff above which are 980Mhz to 1.08Ghz. I've been told before that core clock speed ain't everthing, but I'm still curious.
Many thanks, very grateful for your help.
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On November 23 2014 07:03 Myrmidon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2014 05:20 Incognoto wrote:
who made dragon age inquisition? give the coders a raise :o Bioware (well-known series include Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect, Star Wars: The Old Republic, and Dragon Age). More or less the most well-known Western RPG developer, though personally I'm more partial to BG than the rest. It should be noted that—and I definitely had to look this up—DA: I uses EA Digital Illusions CE's Frostbite 3 game engine, which supports Mantle, of course. EA Digital Illusions CE is responsible for Battlefield, and BF4 was the first to use Frostbite 3. I guess if you're making the engine do enough somethings, it can really hit CPU cores.
I've never even played a game using the Frostbite engine. I have an AMD card too, dang it. It's a good engine though if it can scale that well off multiple cores, would be nice to see someone make an RTS out of that.
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Hi TL, I've not upgraded my computer in probably 3-4 years and am now looking to do so as things are starting to kick the bucket, I don't really have any idea what I should upgrade to since I haven't paid any attention to what AMD / nvidia and intel have released in the past 3 years.
What is your current build?
Gigabyte GA-MA770T-ES3 AMD 770 Socket AM3 (Everest doesn't list my motherboard as its ancient but was listed as this on shipping invoice)
OCZ 120GB Agility 3 SSD SATA-III
Samsung 1TB HDD
OCZ Stealth XStream 600W PSU
AMD Phenom x4 955 @3.2 GHz
AMD Radeon 6870
4GB RAM (it's not listed on Everest, and have no shipping invoice for this anymore sorry)
What is your monitor's native resolution?
1920x1080
Why do you want to upgrade? What do you want to achieve with the upgrade?
I'm looking at changing from my old AMD cpu to an intel i5, and upgrading my graphics card to something more up to date, preferably an nvidia card as I've had numerous issues with my last two AMD cards. I would have to change my motherboard as its so old and heatsink as it only fits AMD.
I'm just wanting to run starcraft well on a high setting really as far as games go, and only use MS word, photoshop and perhaps Adobe after effects for uni.
What is your budget?
£300 - £400
What country will you be buying your parts in?
The UK.
If you have any brand or retailer preferences, please specify.
Intel for a cpu, nvidia for a gpu.
I don't have any retailer preferences, though I normally used to use ebuyer when ordering components.
Thanks again TL, I'm pretty clueless with this all now and I REALLY appreciate the help.
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Hey guys, I know this thread is for desktops but I had a few questions while doing preliminary research for a new laptop. The GPU everyone favors seems to be the 860m maxwell, but I'm hesitant on whether I should get the latest 970m instead for futureproofing. I read that the 980m uses a lot more power. I also read that 3k+ screens are unnecessary and bad for gaming. I don't mind battery life or design but would really prefer a relatively quiet and cool machine, and also no more than 7lb. Aside from the custom built Clevo resellers like mythlogic, xotic, etc, only MSI and Asus seem to use 970m, and the Asus ROG one is 17" and I only want a 15".
So right now I'm wondering if MSIs are as poorly built in regards to heating and noise as everyone says, and also which of the custom sellers are the best to order from and what are the difference. I really don't wanna have to wait a month for it to ship. I won't be playing too many high end games and don't mind playing on low settings; would prefer an SSD. But overall the GPU, noise, and cooling are most important to me. I don't wanna go above $1500 especially with Cyber Monday coming up. I live the US. Thanks for suggestions.
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United Kingdom20322 Posts
the 970m is approaching twice as powerful as 860m, also it's guaranteed to be maxwell (there's both a kepler and a maxwell part labeled 860m so it can be hard to guarantee which one you get sometimes)
it's not less efficient
you can't really run 1440p+ actually in games very well with those laptop GPU's. Remember, a 970m is only like half of a single desktop 970 that's running at overclock - and that's a pretty much top top end laptop GPU
sry i can't reply to most above stuff atm
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Thanks, just trying to narrow my criteria. So 970m seems the way to go. Probably gonna order from xotic or mythlogic as I don't trust MSI build quality.
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Which case is better?
The recommendations has this listed: NZXT H440 but I'm also looking up on logical increments and this one looks nice as well: NZXT Phantom 630
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EPT
