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On August 03 2014 10:44 mdamda wrote:@NihiLStarcraft I checked out caseking. You may want to consider a semi modular power supply to hide all the cables you don't use (helps in airflow and looks). The M12II Evo is superior to the XFX you picked out (uses a lower model Seasonic base platform anyway) has better power regulation across the board for an additional <15 eur. That said, the XFX 450 is not a bad unit in itself. You also probably won't be able to mount the HDD in the 5.25" bays securely. I'd keep them in the proper cages where they belong. The SSD on the other hand, could probably be hidden anywhere (even at the back of the case) without issues.
I see, good points. And I really would like a modular power supply - I just didn't realize they weren't that much more expensive! Awesome, I will be getting the Seasoniic M12II Evo one instead then. It's 520 watt as opposed to 450 watt but since they don't draw all the power but only what they need I guess it's all good (and gives even more headroom for later upgrades such as a second GPU etc).
Good point about the HDD mounting, I'll do it the right way then, use the bottom 'cage' for HDD and SSD, remove the middle and leave the optical drive 5.25" area empty.
Thanks again, tomorrow is ordering time, so excited! 
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So I currently have a PC with an original i7 920 (Used to be OC'd at 4ghz, now back at stock 2.7 because temp issues) which is over 5 years old by now, I was planning to upgrade last year when Haswell came out but because the overclocks on that were pretty bad and I could still run everything on my current PC I decided not to.
Now it's really getting to the time where I need to upgrade, somehow my CPU temp is back up at 80+ despite it running on stock and being cooled by a H100 (Although right now it's idling at ~50), I cleaned the case and everything but it's still pretty bad. I assume it will hold out till the end of the year, but then I'm in the market for a new build (Hopefully after the Nvidia 800 series is released, but I can re-use my current 660Ti until then).
The real question: Do I wait for Haswell-E or go with Devil's Canyon? Assuming we don't really care about price/performance, just performance for games (Starcraft, Star Citizen), 4790k has the far higher clockspeed at 4 ghz vs the 3.5 on the 5930K, but it is a quad vs hex and possibly the HW-E overclocks better making them run at nearly the same speed when OC'd? Then of course there's the question if DDR4 will be worth it over DDR3?
I use my PC mainly for gaming, although I do some programming on it but that's mainly left to my work Laptop anyway, at this point I'm just looking for maximum performance for new games (So mainly whatever'll run Star Citizen best, as that's the most PC demanding game in the future I know of).
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There is absolutely zero reasons to get Haswell-E for gaming. The two extra cores along with hyperthreading will make it much more difficult to overclock than a 4690k.
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If you were still happy with the i7-920 when it was overclocked, why not just fix the cooling? There's obviously something broken there. Are all your case fans working? Are the fans on the H100 running? If that's all fine, the pump of the H100 has an issue. If it's connected to a fan header on the board, I think you'll see an RPM reading in monitoring software, and perhaps you'll notice that it's running slow or something.
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On August 03 2014 18:48 Ropid wrote:
If you were still happy with the i7-920 when it was overclocked, why not just fix the cooling? There's obviously something broken there. Are all your case fans working? Are the fans on the H100 running? If that's all fine, the pump of the H100 has an issue. If it's connected to a fan header on the board, I think you'll see an RPM reading in monitoring software, and perhaps you'll notice that it's running slow or something.
It was starting to show its age even with the OC, but it was pretty good nontheless. I couldn't/can't find anything wrong with the pump, fan speed seems to be fine as well. I had chalked it down to age (I'm reckoned CPUs weren't made to be ran on a 50% OC for 5+ years) but I can investigate some more to see if I can get it back to old. I'll probably want to upgrade this year regardless of that though, since it was struggling on some things (Like Star Citizen) already.
On August 03 2014 18:45 SkyR wrote:
There is absolutely zero reasons to get Haswell-E for gaming. The two extra cores along with hyperthreading will make it much more difficult to overclock than a 4690k.
Seems logical enough, I had read several articles that had conflicting opinions on this, I had somewhat figured the best approach would be a Devil's Canyon and then put the spare money into better graphics. While I know that normally the i5 performs as well in gaming as the i7, in DC's case the i7 is clocked at 4 instead of 3.5, is the 4690k still better for gaming in this case? I'd have figured the i7 takes the lead here, or is the base clock just higher but they OC to the same speed?
Thanks for the answers already anyway guys!
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Generally speaking the i5 is better at gaming than most processors. The i7 has hyperthreading which the i5 does not, that's pretty much it (barring a few other details). Hyperthreading is a performance boost in well-threaded tasks like video encoding; it rarely helps for gaming since very few games take advantage of hyperthreading. However, hyperthreading will add ~10°C to your temperatures when used, suffice to say that this means you will hit a thermal ceiling faster with an i7 than with an i5. This means that the i7 can't clock as fast as the i5 due to temperatures. When you see that the i7 is roughly 40-50% more expensive than the i5, it makes little sense to get the i7 over the i5 for gaming, especially since you're also going to pay more for whatever cooler you're going to get.
If you are streaming or doing anything else that is well-threaded as well as gaming, AND you have a very CPU strong cooler, it >may< be worth getting an i7. However this is much more expensive set up than an i5 with a strong mid-high end cooler (Thermalright Macho Rev.a iirc). Much more expensive.
The two extra cores on Haswell-E wouldn't help at all for gaming (except for a few examples maybe), it would be good for something like gaming while streaming at 1080p48. However it's way more expensive and also apparently more difficult to overclock than your good old i5 4690k.
I'd definitely go for the i5 4690k in your shoes.
I think the decision to wait until Nvidia releases 800 series processors before upgrading is a good one though. GTX 660 Ti is old, but decent enough even for today's standards. Quite decent even.
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Hey, I just got a samsung 4k monitor. It was open box (20% off!), but has no DP1.2 cable.
I found this on eBay: http://m.ebay.ca/itm/111226817891
The title seems a bit odd. It is a normal male-male DP1.2 cable right? It's not male DP1.2 - male DP1.1 or anything?
Thanks.
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United Kingdom20322 Posts
It's pretty much irrelevant what the base clocks are, because i5 overclocks higher than i7 on average.
They're about the same if you take temperatures out of the equation, but with cooling like a 2x fan width CLC or high end air you're usually at uncomfortable temps much faster with i7, because HT adds ~7-13c depending on how hot the CPU is (i7 @1.35vcore with same cooling could be at 93c with HT on, 80c with it off)
A pretty normal expected overclock would be ~4.6ghz, especially on devil's canyon. Gumbi got three devil's canyon chips the other day and it seems with ~1.3-1.35vcore, one will run 4.8, one 4.7 and one 4.6. Before that, Haswell normal was about 4.5@1.3, but the stricter binning on 4690k/4790k vs their predecessors seems to have a notable effect on improving average overclocks. A bit better temperatures is always nice, too.
If you already have a gtx780 or r9 290 for example, that's when i might consider paying extra for i7, to stay on a single GPU lga1150 system. It's just not worth funneling your budget into paying that much extra for cooling and hyperthreading just to run 4c8t instead of 4c4t when it usually helps up to ~20% - IF it's being highly demanded, and often doesn't help at all, while there are far greater upgrades to make instead. CPU bound games that scale significantly with hyperthreading are rare, and for stuff like Star Citizen we're going to see improved API's that will help CPU performance.
GPU ranting + Show Spoiler +Also, rumor right now points to Nvidia releasing a "midrange" maxwell part as a 780 replacement (bit faster) at low TDP from about 1.5 months to 4.5 months from now. They're likely to throw bigger GPU that's way faster (~1.5-2x) a year later or whenever they feel pressured into it.
Oh, i didn't see you had a 660ti. Right now, 780ti is about twice as fast, so you have plenty of room for cheap or effective GPU upgrades with next gen rolling in end of this year, first half of next or so.
That's quite cool actually.
660ti = 1344:112:24 core layout, 192 bit memory bus.
780ti = 2880:240:48 core layout, 384 bit memory bus - also VRAM that clocks about 10% faster. So it's a pretty clean 2x upgrade! (:
With midrange for next gen competing around 780ti level, that would be nice
As an additional note, 4ghz isn't all too stressful for a d0 920. Intel sold the 920-960 at ~2.66 - 3.2ghz, but they were all the same silicon, just with different labels. The d0's (introduced after launch) clocked wonderfully, you were likely running 4ghz without a particularly high or stressful voltage - temperature won't rise due to running an overclock for too long, the chip will just gradually require more voltage over time to stay stable. It will likely still work fine if you just fixed your cooling - not that i don't recommend Haswell i5 upgrade, i went from a 950 @3.8ghz to haswell quad core and it blew me away some of the performance gains i saw :D
Just to note it, on OCN i've seen talk of people using these 6-core westmere(?) lga1136 CPU's. They clock to like 4.4ghz if you push them, 4ghz if you don't (afaik) and they perform similarly to Haswell i7 in perfectly multithreaded tasks, but they cost only like 80 dollars on ebay sometimes (or wherever people buy them)
the weakness is, Haswell often performs 1.5x better if 4 or less cores are used heavily, or if a game or program is not perfectly parallel, due to a combination of clocking higher and having far higher performance per clock.
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Well, the "way faster" (than 780) is impossible now on the available manufacturing processes unless you want to pay for by far the hugest chip ever released by Nvidia (or AMD or Intel).
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United Kingdom20322 Posts
On August 03 2014 23:18 Myrmidon wrote:
Well, the "way faster" (than 780) is impossible now on the available manufacturing processes unless you want to pay for by far the hugest chip ever released by Nvidia (or AMD or Intel).
Yea, there is still rumor of the midrange release being 20nm but it's probably 28, we've already seen the die size afaik and it's smaller than gk110 but it could also be like 20% faster
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hey guys, didnt look into hardware for a year now, and am not up2date with what happend at all
i am currently running a i5 3570k with 8gig ram a 450 bequite modular bronze powersupply and a 660 from asus. my cpu pretty much is okay, but for upcoming games my graphic probably wont stand for high settings so i am wondering if its feasable to upgrade now or are new cards on the horizon and its better to wait. got like 250-300€ to spare but as its not really an issue now so i could wait if something comes on the market etc
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Wait later this year or maybe next year for the next generation. 7xx series (which is current), aside from the lower-end and slower 750/750 Ti, is just a refresh featuring the same architecture and process.
I mean, in that price range you can buy a GTX 770, which is just a GTX 680 with higher clock speeds and thermal limits. You could have bought that years ago, and it's not a huge upgrade over a GTX 660 anyway.
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United Kingdom20322 Posts
On August 04 2014 01:40 {ToT}ColmA wrote:
hey guys, didnt look into hardware for a year now, and am not up2date with what happend at all
i am currently running a i5 3570k with 8gig ram a 450 bequite modular bronze powersupply and a 660 from asus. my cpu pretty much is okay, but for upcoming games my graphic probably wont stand for high settings so i am wondering if its feasable to upgrade now or are new cards on the horizon and its better to wait. got like 250-300€ to spare but as its not really an issue now so i could wait if something comes on the market etc
You could get a 780/290 or just wait. No guarantees on newer stuff but maybe an "860" at end of q3 to q4 this year
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On August 03 2014 16:18 NihiLStarcraft wrote:I see, good points. And I really would like a modular power supply - I just didn't realize they weren't that much more expensive! Awesome, I will be getting the Seasoniic M12II Evo one instead then. It's 520 watt as opposed to 450 watt but since they don't draw all the power but only what they need I guess it's all good (and gives even more headroom for later upgrades such as a second GPU etc). Good point about the HDD mounting, I'll do it the right way then, use the bottom 'cage' for HDD and SSD, remove the middle and leave the optical drive 5.25" area empty. Thanks again, tomorrow is ordering time, so excited!
You can mount the SSD in the 5.25" area with some screws and whatever you have there (tape, zip ties, what not)
To temper expectations, you'd probably need a 650 watt PSU minimum to handle high powered 2nd GPUs in the future. For very very high powered GPUs (2x 290X, you're looking closer to 700+ watts minimum)
All in all, looks like a good build.
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Just got a new case (corsair carbide 540 air) to replace my old one (cm storm scout) with busted front panel + some other issues, but after I switched everything over the cpu seems to be running obscenely hot and slow. Speedfan says the cpu is ~83-85 C and thats basically idling, I haven't even tried to play any games or anything. My cooler is a seidon 120xl; the radiator/fans seem be to working okay but I don't have a lot of experience with temps or anything going wrong. What's the best place to start troubleshooting and where to go from here? I do have a cm 212 evo lying around I could switch to but it was also having really high usage for what I have done (basically nothing but idle so far) which seems like its more than just a cooling issue, but the only thing that's different is the case as far as I know and that doesn't seem like a case related issue.
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The pump is probably not running?
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My CLC has software that can tell you the current pump speed. The software has to be plugged into an internal USB slot (on the mobo) to be usable (the CLC works fine w/o the software running).
You should see if your has something similar and see if it's pushing water correctly. I guess it's also possible you have a really bad mount on the CPU.
How much thermal paste did you use when you mounted it (did you the pre-applied or apply your own)?
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I have no idea how to check or fix that. Should I just use the other cooler?
On August 04 2014 13:08 Craton wrote:
My CLC has software that can tell you the current pump speed. The software has to be plugged into an internal USB slot (on the mobo) to be usable (the CLC works fine w/o the software running).
You should see if your has something similar and see if it's pushing water correctly. I guess it's also possible you have a really bad mount on the CPU.
How much thermal paste did you use when you mounted it (did you the pre-applied or apply your own)?
I have to note here that it was working normally in my other case and I kept the cooler attached while swapping the motherboard over, so I don't think it's a mounting/paste issue.
EDIT nevermind I'm retarded, I switched the fans being plugged into the wrong spots on the motherboard (the were right next to each other) and now the blue LED light is on, thanks for the help. The pump info + google seems to have done the trick.
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EPT
