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Kaveri is definitely more expensive than that i3. They don't have the low-end models available yet. You could get the older gen, but I wouldn't.
I wouldn't be afraid to get a LGA 1150 Celeron or Pentium. Those are still blazing fast on the CPU side for most tasks and not much worse on the IGP.
Cheap stuff (35 euros!):
http://azerty.nl/8-5778-671174/intel-celeron-g1820.html
4 GB of RAM is probably enough, but sure I guess. Worst-case scenario on the CPU, if you actually need more, go find a Core i5 later. The difference between that Celeron and a Core i3 is just some clock speed, Hyperthreading, and a bit of cache on the CPU side, and some features that wouldn't be used.
You can get say a larger monitor instead (1080p still). Might be easier for older eyes, and it will look more impressive. 
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On March 04 2014 03:56 Myrmidon wrote:Kaveri is definitely more expensive than that i3. They don't have the low-end models available yet. You could get the older gen, but I wouldn't. I wouldn't be afraid to get a LGA 1150 Celeron or Pentium. Those are still blazing fast on the CPU side for most tasks and not much worse on the IGP. Cheap stuff (35 euros!): http://azerty.nl/8-5778-671174/intel-celeron-g1820.html4 GB of RAM is probably enough, but sure I guess. Worst-case scenario on the CPU, if you actually need more, go find a Core i5 later. The difference between that Celeron and a Core i3 is just some clock speed, Hyperthreading, and a bit of cache on the CPU side, and some features that wouldn't be used. You can get say a larger monitor instead (1080p still). Might be easier for older eyes, and it will look more impressive.
Wow interesting response. I never knew/considered there were still celerons/pentiums around ( i remember having a pentium 2 400 mhz back in +-2000 ). Looking at some charts it seems like it is pretty good for my mom's situation indeed 
Two questions though: will the celeron act as a bottleneck for the SSD, which makes the overall experience less snappy? or will that not be as much of an issue as long as you stay away from the graphic-intensive stuff. I would love to be able to let the SSD work in all its glory 
Second question concerns the integrated GPU. I read that the standard Intel HD graphics doesn't work too well with blu-ray movies. Will it function with Netflix?
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Regardless of the CPU, the SSD is communicating with the southbridge chipset, the H81. And the interface from that chipset to the CPU is the same DMI 2.0 no matter if it's a Core i7-4770k or Celeron G1820. On some tasks the CPU would be briefly a bottleneck for some things and holding things up. But for disk access, it's the CPU and the rest of the system that's going to be waiting on the SSD no matter which CPU you have.
With the integrated GPU, I've never tried Blu-rays on it or even Haswell IGP at all, but I don't see why it would be worse. Same for Netflix. Everything these days can hardware decode h.264 and so on. And these should be able to do it handily in software on the CPU anyway. I guess old Intel IGPs and even current ones have some issues with 23.976 refresh rate (wait, is that even how it is in PAL territories for Blu-ray?), but computer monitors don't support that anyway and you're dealing with juddering from 2:3 pulldown regardless. There are some ways to fudge around that and make it better, anyhow, but that's kind of out of the scope of the hardware and this thread.
Do note that for the first time IIRC, the Celeron / Pentium options have a worse IGP in terms of hardware resources than the normal Core ix lineup on the desktop—here GT1 config with 10 shaders as opposed to GT2 config with 20 shaders. That said, the GT1 should be fine.
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Hi guys, doing a build for my friend:
$1000 USD
What is your monitor's native resolution?
1280x1024 (possible upgrade to 1920 if budget allows)
What games do you intend to play on this computer? What settings?
SC2, new games
What do you intend to use the computer for besides gaming?
streaming playing tournaments
Do you intend to overclock?
no
Do you intend to do SLI / Crossfire?
i would but no
Do you need an operating system?
not that i know of
Do you need a monitor or any other peripherals, if so what?
maybe someday a mouse other than that not at the moment
If you have any requirements or brand preferences, please specify.
intel/nvidia NOT MAC
I'm wondering if I should get i5 or i7? From what I've read in the thread, streaming and gaming is a good amount for i5, i7 probably is overkill?
He wants GTX700 series or equivalent. But with the inflated AMD prices, going for NVIDIA is probably the best bet now right?
TIA
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On March 04 2014 13:18 nosliw wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
Hi guys, doing a build for my friend:
$1000 USD
What is your monitor's native resolution?
1280x1024 (possible upgrade to 1920 if budget allows)
What games do you intend to play on this computer? What settings?
SC2, new games
What do you intend to use the computer for besides gaming?
streaming playing tournaments
Do you intend to overclock?
no
Do you intend to do SLI / Crossfire?
i would but no
Do you need an operating system?
not that i know of
Do you need a monitor or any other peripherals, if so what?
maybe someday a mouse other than that not at the moment
If you have any requirements or brand preferences, please specify.
intel/nvidia NOT MAC
I'm wondering if I should get i5 or i7? From what I've read in the thread, streaming and gaming is a good amount for i5, i7 probably is overkill?
He wants GTX700 series or equivalent. But with the inflated AMD prices, going for NVIDIA is probably the best bet now right?
TIA
Yeah, an i5 4670 is the best processor you could get without overclocking and for a gaming rig. That, with a GTX 760 and a 1080p monitor, seems to fit in your budget. AMD GPUs are indeed way too expensive at the moment. If you don't upgrade to a 1080p monitor, I think a GTX 750 Ti should do quite well; in fact even for 1080p a GTX 750 Ti should do quite well. Depends on how much you want to spend on the GPU, look up some benchmarks! If you have $1000 I think it would be a great buy to at very least get a cheap 1080p monitor. No use getting a mid-high end GPU/GPU to game at 1024p. ^^
8 Gb of RAM and a 450W PSU should do here. HF
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Hey guys, what do you think about doing something like (for example) two 250GB EVOs in RAID0 vs a single EVO 500GB?
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United Kingdom20323 Posts
Raid 0 adds some complications and only increases sequential speed, not faster access time or more IOPS (IIRC..), so if you're not using over ~half a gigabyte per second sequential, it won't actually do anything good for you. It's better to have a solution like this IMO - http://www.kitguru.net/components/ssd-drives/anton-shilov/intel-readies-750-series-ssds-with-pci-express-interface/
They quote three times higher sequential and twice as high read IOPS as the best ssd's available today on sata 3 (6gbit/s) interface (840 evo etc). That's the kind of thing that has the potential to make a real dent in system snappyness and boot times etc - compared to going from a single ssd to raid 0 setup that might not actually help at all for a lot of stuff, or help a little for some others
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What is your current build?
i5 2320 3.0ghz
mushkin 4gb ram
hd 6770
coolermaster 500W psu
2mbit upload
What is your monitor's native resolution?
1680*1050
Why do you want to upgrade? What do you want to achieve with the upgrade?
I would like to stream, but I'm not sure if my parts will be good enough to do so. Currently streaming makes my sc2 lag (on lowest all settings). I am thinking of upgrading to a GTX 750 for about 150 bucks, as well as upgrading the ram. Also I just changed motherboards from intel h61ww to this (http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131964)
My question is, will my psu be able to handle the card? It says 18A on 2 rails but the system requirements for the gtx 750 says 1 rail 20A. And will the gtx 750 combo with my i5 2320 (bad cpu I know, but when I got it I assumed it could stream a game like sc2) be good enough to stream on low-med settings? Any suggestions instead for the graphics card upgrade? I'll be upgrading the ram and hd too, so everything should be better. Thanks.
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United Kingdom20323 Posts
On March 05 2014 09:45 coL.hendralisk wrote:
What is your current build?
i5 2320 3.0ghz
mushkin 4gb ram
hd 6770
coolermaster 500W psu
2mbit upload
What is your monitor's native resolution?
1680*1050
Why do you want to upgrade? What do you want to achieve with the upgrade?
I would like to stream, but I'm not sure if my parts will be good enough to do so. Currently streaming makes my sc2 lag (on lowest all settings). I am thinking of upgrading to a GTX 750 for about 150 bucks, as well as upgrading the ram. Also I just changed motherboards from intel h61ww to this (http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131964)
My question is, will my psu be able to handle the card? It says 18A on 2 rails but the system requirements for the gtx 750 says 1 rail 20A. And will the gtx 750 combo with my i5 2320 (bad cpu I know, but when I got it I assumed it could stream a game like sc2) be good enough to stream on low-med settings? Any suggestions instead for the graphics card upgrade? I'll be upgrading the ram and hd too, so everything should be better. Thanks.
What exact PSU model is it do you know? Probably not really relevant for anything though
You should be able to run decent quality stream fine. You'd take a performance hit on sc2 regardless, and it won't run as well as having say an overclocked i5-4670k would, but they don't exactly run the game perfectly either, especially while streaming.
I don't think a gtx750/760 would actually do anything for you on med settings, and it shouldn't on low. Not really sure because sc2 seems weirdly nvidia favored, but you're probably not GPU-bound. You can check FPS at the start of a 1v1 game on low settings for example and compare it to somewhere you have performance problems like a lategame fight, almost all of the time especially on med-low settings it's just one core of the CPU failing to keep up with the game very well, with mid-tier graphics cards left almost completely idle and older and lower tier cards keeping up fine
For stream settings you can start out with like 1280x720, 30fps, veryfast preset and ~1500kbit constant bitrate
20a on 1 rail is obviously a weird full-system recommendation. The gtx750 is extremely efficient compared to your current card and is power limited to about 60 watts, which is 5 amps at 12v (5*12=60) so there's no way that it can consume four times that. A decent 500w PSU would be pretty extreme overkill for a 60w GPU and a CPU that's using like 100 watts at full load (not sure on sandy bridge i5 power numbers)
Upgrading RAM and hard drive will both help you if you want to use higher capacities, but for just running sc2 (or running sc2 and streaming) there's no advantage for 8gb of RAM over 4gb and hard drive space is pretty irrelevant
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On March 05 2014 10:14 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2014 09:45 coL.hendralisk wrote:
What is your current build?
i5 2320 3.0ghz
mushkin 4gb ram
hd 6770
coolermaster 500W psu
2mbit upload
What is your monitor's native resolution?
1680*1050
Why do you want to upgrade? What do you want to achieve with the upgrade?
I would like to stream, but I'm not sure if my parts will be good enough to do so. Currently streaming makes my sc2 lag (on lowest all settings). I am thinking of upgrading to a GTX 750 for about 150 bucks, as well as upgrading the ram. Also I just changed motherboards from intel h61ww to this (http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131964)
My question is, will my psu be able to handle the card? It says 18A on 2 rails but the system requirements for the gtx 750 says 1 rail 20A. And will the gtx 750 combo with my i5 2320 (bad cpu I know, but when I got it I assumed it could stream a game like sc2) be good enough to stream on low-med settings? Any suggestions instead for the graphics card upgrade? I'll be upgrading the ram and hd too, so everything should be better. Thanks.
What exact PSU model is it do you know? Probably not really relevant for anything though You should be able to run decent quality stream fine. You'd take a performance hit on sc2 regardless, and it won't run as well as having say an overclocked i5-4670k would, but they don't exactly run the game perfectly either, especially while streaming. I don't think a gtx750/760 would actually do anything for you on med settings, and it shouldn't on low. Not really sure because sc2 seems weirdly nvidia favored, but you're probably not GPU-bound. You can check FPS at the start of a 1v1 game on low settings for example and compare it to somewhere you have performance problems like a lategame fight, almost all of the time especially on med-low settings it's just one core of the CPU failing to keep up with the game very well, with mid-tier graphics cards left almost completely idle and older and lower tier cards keeping up fine For stream settings you can start out with like 1280x720, 30fps, veryfast preset and ~1500kbit constant bitrate 20a on 1 rail is obviously a weird full-system recommendation. The gtx750 is extremely efficient compared to your current card and is power limited to about 60 watts, which is 5 amps at 12v (5*12=60) so there's no way that it can consume four times that. A decent 500w PSU would be pretty extreme overkill for a 60w GPU and a CPU that's using like 100 watts at full load (not sure on sandy bridge i5 power numbers) Upgrading RAM and hard drive will both help you if you want to use higher capacities, but for just running sc2 (or running sc2 and streaming) there's no advantage for 8gb of RAM over 4gb and hard drive space is pretty irrelevant
I think it's this one: http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4465483. If not it's some older version of coolermaster's 500w. Good to know my psu can handle it.
Hm, when I tried streaming at a friend's house or a lan on same ingame settings (comps with good i7 processors and really good hardware all around), the ingame play was much smoother than mine at home, felt almost negligible really. I think the fps right now is about 120 or so at the start of a game, drops down to 20-40 lategame. On top of that, if I'm streaming there is noticeable delay in issued commands (I tried streaming to file output to see if it's my internet but same thing). Should I upgrade my cpu instead of the gpu? I'm mostly just using my pc for sc2/streaming but wouldn't pass a great deal on some better specs for modern gaming. So if you could suggest any cpu/gpu upgrades, I'd appreciate it. I'm assuming those 2 are the most important parts to upgrade.
I'll try tweaking the stream settings some more. And ye I know, I agree with the ram/hd. Thanks for the writeup!
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United Kingdom20323 Posts
Are you using OBS with game capture? (not screen/monitor capture etc)
A major upgrade for cpu would look like ~i5 4670k, z87x-d3h and ~$30-70 for CPU cooling, then overclocking. Not sure how well the GPU would keep up, but if you was fine running low settings it would probably be a big difference. I can go shared replay and compare performance with Haswell @4.5ghz if you'd like
i7 does not perform notably higher than i5 in sc2, the main feature for i7 over i5 on desktop is hyperthreading which only helps with certain types of loads, so it's basically just the same thing as i5. Newer architecture and overclocking helps, though
If it is that PSU.. then it's a pretty terrible PSU and it's probably safer to get a new one if you wanted to get a newer, powerful GPU (ideally before that, but it's not a very appealing way to spend money)
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Yes I'm using obs. I have a evo 212, I think it'll be sufficient. I haven't installed it yet so I gotta get some rubbing alcohol for the swap. So I should upgrade my cpu first before anything else and then the gpu? For sc2/stream and the general gaming use. And I'm not sure what shared replay is, could you clarify thx
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United Kingdom20323 Posts
hyper 212 is lower end but it works. Definitely cpu first for sc2/streaming.. for "general gaming use" a 6770 is probably not the greatest though
And I'm not sure what shared replay is, could you clarify thx
Blizzard added feature a while ago for multiple people to watch a replay with the time controlled by one person. It's the easiest way to compare performance between two systems as FPS varies quite wildly game-to-game and even depending on where camera is etc
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On March 05 2014 12:03 Cyro wrote:hyper 212 is lower end but it works. Definitely cpu first for sc2/streaming.. for "general gaming use" a 6770 is probably not the greatest though Blizzard added feature a while ago for multiple people to watch a replay with the time controlled by one person. It's the easiest way to compare performance between two systems as FPS varies quite wildly game-to-game and even depending on where camera is etc
Oh I thought something else haha. Yeah, maybe if you got time don't wanna trouble you. Speaking of replays, I could never play any on x8, my fps drops to 0 on the top left and it lags a lot, skipping around.
For the cpu, I actually was using an amd athlon 4400+ for a long time (lol) and then upgraded to a i3 2120 which I thought would be good enough for sc2.. then got an i5 2320 which again I thought would be an upgrade and be able to stream.. nope what a waste of money!
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United Kingdom20323 Posts
i5 still better than i3 (can stream decently with the extra 2 cores to load) but it's hard to keep good FPS in sc2
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Hmm true, just wasn't as great as I thought it would be in terms of sc2. Must be really taxing on a system.
Darn it, just remmebered the motherboard I ordered was an H77 chipset one, so I'm guessing I'd need to buy another if I wanna get one of the newer stronger i5/i7 processors Q_Q
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United Kingdom20323 Posts
It is, especially with physics/reflections/effects on.. having them off/off/medium is probably best. Those settings alone off can give >1.5x performance in some cases
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So I am looking for a new desktop pc for my girlfriend.
Right now it will be mostly for playing Diablo 3 (RoS release soon, yay!), but also some SC2.
It's not at all needed to play the newest game on high settings, but playing D3 and SC2 on at least medium without having FPS issues would be awesome. She's currently playing on her 2yo notebook and has huge FPS lags when playing D3 on lowest settings.
I am absolutely inexperienced in building a system for myself, I have done so once something like 8 years ago for my father, but when I am reading through this thread I feel like I understand maybe 10% of it. :D
Assembling it should be a possible task for me, but not much more. : (
What is your budget?
600€ (Could stretch it a bit if it gives a lot more value...)
What is your monitor's native resolution?
1920x1080
What games do you intend to play on this computer? What settings?
Diablo 3 and SC2 on medium to high settings.
What do you intend to use the computer for besides gaming?
Office and browsing the net, nothing taxing.
Do you intend to overclock?
No.
Do you intend to do SLI / Crossfire?
No.
Do you need an operating system?
Yes.
Do you need a monitor or any other peripherals and is this part of your budget?
No.
If you have any requirements or brand preferences, please specify.
Have been using Nvidia/Intel setups so far, but anything that works is fine. : )
What country will you be buying your parts in?
Germany / EU
If you have any retailer preferences, please specify.
So far I have been looking at premade builds, pretty much all of those seem to use an Intel i3 CPU. Which from what I could gather here so far would not be that great?
If I am just straightup wrong in this thread/section, I am sorry for wasting your time!
Sorry for not even posting a build myself and anyway thanks on beforehand! :<
e:
Had been looking at something like this:
http://www.arlt.com/PC/Komplett-PCs/Gaming-PCs/ARLT-Silent-Gamer-GTX-650-arlt.html
> CPU: Intel Core i3-3220 (3,3GHz)
> 8GB RAM
> GPU: NVIDIA GeForce GTX650
> Motherboard: MSI B75MA-P45
Have had good experience with that retailer, so I personally like the site, but I am not sure at all about the builds they have...
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Last-gen CPU, last-gen GPU that was always poor value, but I guess around 600 euros you can't get a huge amount better. But you can do better and that just seems like a waste anyway.
I'm pretty sure the bigger shops like hardwareversand and mindfactory offer assembly (i.e. you can select components from a large selection instead of being shackled to existing builds that may not make sense) for a reasonable fee like sub-20 euros or so, but I can't find the option right now. Maybe you should call and ask to confirm.
edit: wait a sec, my estimate was off; German pricing a little better than I last remembered
Core i5-4570 - 170€
http://www.hardwareversand.de/Socket 1150/78028/Intel Core i5-4570 Box, LGA1150.article
Gigabyte H81M-DS2V - 42€
http://www.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?adp=0&aid=110809&agid=2242&apop=601
Gigabyte HD 7770 - 88€
http://www.hardwareversand.de/1024 MB/60142/Gigabyte Radeon HD 7770 OC, 1GB GDDR5, PCI-Express.article
Crucial 2 x 4GB 1600MHz DDR3 - 64€
http://www.hardwareversand.de/1600 Low Voltage/125974/8GB-Kit Crucial Ballistix Sport Series DDR3-1600, CL9.article
Toshiba 1 TB hard drive - 50€
http://www.hardwareversand.de/7200 RPM/64915/Toshiba DT01ACA Series 1TB, SATA 6Gb s.article
Crucial M500 120GB SSD - 62€
http://www.hardwareversand.de/Solid-State-Disk/101090/Crucial M500 120GB SATA 6GB s 6,4CM (2,5) 7mm.article
Lite-On DVD burner - 14€
http://www.hardwareversand.de/S-ATA/69324/LiteOn iHAS124-04 schwarz SATA.article
SATA cable - 1€
http://www.hardwareversand.de/S-ATA/40328/LogiLink SATA 0.3m Kabel mit Sicherungslasche.article
Cooler Master G450M - 46€
http://www.hardwareversand.de/400 - 500 Watts/113845/Cooler Master G 450 M.article
Cooler Master N200 - 40€
http://www.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?adp=0&aid=84537&agid=635&apop=3
note: prices not even really checked across retailers or in general except between options at hwvs; mindfactory for example has an HD 7770, which is already plenty for SC2 and D3, for say 80 instead of 88.
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I don't like that it does not come with Windows license. That's what usually makes buying a cheap pre-built PC attractive.
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EPT
