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On January 02 2013 23:18 kaNt- wrote:
I used a Steelseries 6gv2 with MX red cherry for 2 weeks. In the future I wanna get another mech keyboard with different switches, I feel the MX red are kinda boring. The linear feeling is not as sexy as I thought. I wanna try a tactile keyboard, but I can´t decide which switch try, the blues or browns.
Blues are very noisy and can annoy people around me but some people claim that browns aren´t tactile or the tactile feeling is too weak.
So can somebody help me? :D
All mechanical keyboards are loud unless you have O-rings installed. Do you bottom out when you type? Browns are tactile, but the feel is indeed very mild.
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On January 02 2013 23:54 Sein wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2013 23:18 kaNt- wrote:
I used a Steelseries 6gv2 with MX red cherry for 2 weeks. In the future I wanna get another mech keyboard with different switches, I feel the MX red are kinda boring. The linear feeling is not as sexy as I thought. I wanna try a tactile keyboard, but I can´t decide which switch try, the blues or browns.
Blues are very noisy and can annoy people around me but some people claim that browns aren´t tactile or the tactile feeling is too weak.
So can somebody help me? :D All mechanical keyboards are loud unless you have O-rings installed. Do you bottom out when you type? Browns are tactile, but the feel is indeed very mild.
I´m totally fine with the noise of the MX cherry red and i´ve watched videos with mechanical keyboards sound comparison and blues sound pretty noise.
I´ve tried a Razer Blackwidow in the past but I don´t quite remember the feeling 
Most times I think I bottom out the reds cause they have low actuation force.
Soooo I kinda need some help.
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Get browns if you're concerned about noise.
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noise also depends a lot on teh pcb the keys are mounted on more so than the switch itself. red, black, brown, it doesn't really make much of a difference if it is mounted on a pcb that makes loud noise when you bottom out.
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On January 03 2013 02:23 Terranist wrote:
noise also depends a lot on teh pcb the keys are mounted on more so than the switch itself. red, black, brown, it doesn't really make much of a difference if it is mounted on a pcb that makes loud noise when you bottom out.
I see... I saw that Filco Majestouch 2 use PCB, I´m aiming that brand (when I got more cash :p).
So noise would be a problem regardless switch.
A lot of people complain that the Blues are kinda unconfortable to double tapping due to the actuation and reset point. I wonder if this myth is true or not.
Also I read that Blues are the ABSOLUTE BEST for typing and I may follow the programming path soon, so I´m tempted towards blue. However that loud sound is a definite con.
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Blues for typing.
Reds for gaming.
Browns for typing when there's people around you, probably a good choice as a middle of the road between typing and gaming.
I can tell that u will not notice the tactile bump when gaming. So if you're getting Browns because the Reds are too "boring" you will be disappointed. The Browns make the most sense for touch typists in environments where you don't won't the noisy blues. You won't mind the sound of blues yourself, it's only annoying when other people type.
The double tapping is practically a non-issue because you are bottoming out when gaming anyway. It just means you have to let the key move up slightly higher than with a Red before pressing again.
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On January 03 2013 06:03 L3gendary wrote:
Blues for typing.
Reds for gaming.
Browns for typing when there's people around you, probably a good choice as a middle of the road between typing and gaming.
I can tell that u will not notice the tactile bump when gaming. The browns make the most sense for touch typists in environments where you don't won't the noisy blues. You won't mind the sound of blues yourself, it's only annoying when other people type.
The double tapping is practically a non-issue because you are bottoming out when gaming anyway. It just means you have to let the key move up slightly higher than with a Red before pressing again.
Thanks for the reply!
I don´t feel that the Red are the best option for gaming. I mean linear switches are boring and it feels SIMILAR to the membrane keyboards. I said SIMILAR because they don´t feel quite the same. The Red are very light and linear so it´s not that different to a 10$ keyboard is terms of feedback, however the mechanical keyboard feels much more solid and smooth. Another very important thing are the keycaps, their quality have a huge impact in the keyboard feeling overall.
The linear keyboards they really mean it, there is NO kind of springiness or any weird force bump whatsoever. I thought linear keyboards would feel more different to a membrane one. Right now i´m typing with a membrane keyboard and I don´t mind it. A lot of people say that after switching to mechanical they can´t type in a cheap keyboard ever but I don´t quite feel the same.
With the linear switches I feel the mechanical keyboards are kinda hyped, but I trully hope tactile switches change my mind.
My experience with the linear switches was very disappointing so I wanna try a tactile one. Browns seems to be good but I have to try them first, some people can´t see any differences between a Red and Browns.
And I would like to try Blues and Brows to see if I like hardcore tactility or subtle feedback, both things seems to fit me well.
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On geekhack a lot of guys posted that Red switches feels like a ´cloud of boobs´. I don´t mean that i bought the keyboards after reading that, because in fact someone gave me one for free (yaaaay :D).
However I wanna advice you for you guys that want to buy your first mechanical keyboard, when you read opinions like about mechanical keyboards, take them catiously. They are opinions and they are very subjective.
However, when you read that Black and Red switches are linear, it IS LITERAL, I mean they don´t have ANY kind of springiness or bouncy feeling so DON´T expect annny kind of tactilility whatsoever.
So before buying a mechanical keyboard, read, search and compare keyboards. I really hope that you don´t get as disappointed as I am.
Anyways i´m not frustrated because I got the keyboard for free so I´m not whining, but advicing people that are looking forward to buy a mechanical keyboard for the first time.
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On January 03 2013 06:10 kaNt- wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2013 06:03 L3gendary wrote:
Blues for typing.
Reds for gaming.
Browns for typing when there's people around you, probably a good choice as a middle of the road between typing and gaming.
I can tell that u will not notice the tactile bump when gaming. The browns make the most sense for touch typists in environments where you don't won't the noisy blues. You won't mind the sound of blues yourself, it's only annoying when other people type.
The double tapping is practically a non-issue because you are bottoming out when gaming anyway. It just means you have to let the key move up slightly higher than with a Red before pressing again. Thanks for the reply! I don´t feel that the Red are the best option for gaming. I mean linear switches are boring and it feels SIMILAR to the membrane keyboards. I said SIMILAR because they don´t feel quite the same. The Red are very light and linear so it´s not that different to a 10$ keyboard is terms of feedback, however the mechanical keyboard feels much more solid and smooth. Another very important thing are the keycaps, their quality have a huge impact in the keyboard feeling overall. The linear keyboards they really mean it, there is NO kind of springiness or any weird force bump whatsoever. I thought linear keyboards would feel more different to a membrane one. Right now i´m typing with a membrane keyboard and I don´t mind it. A lot of people say that after switching to mechanical they can´t type in a cheap keyboard ever but I don´t quite feel the same. With the linear switches I feel the mechanical keyboards are kinda hyped, but I trully hope tactile switches change my mind. My experience with the linear switches was very disappointing so I wanna try a tactile one. Browns seems to be good but I have to try them first, some people can´t see any differences between a Red and Browns. And I would like to try Blues and Brows to see if I like hardcore tactility or subtle feedback, both things seems to fit me well.
Yeah sorry to tell you but mech keyboards have been way overhyped especially among starcraft fans and are not worth their cost in a truly utilitarian manner. But as with all "luxury" items you have to pay exponentially more to get only a slightly better product. Most brood war players played on the dirt cheap qsenn dt-35 membrane keyboards and it frankly makes no difference in-game, it all comes down to skill not what keyboard you have.
If you just want a mech keyboard that's "fun" or just for the novelty of having one, or perhaps so you can justify the costs to yourself, then go with the Blues hands down. No other switch is gonna impress you if you're disappointed with the Reds. If you really can't get the Blues because there's people around you then save yourself the money and stick with the Reds.
Also, people on geekhack are like audiophiles that will recommend you $300 headphones when you won't even notice the difference between it and a pair costing $150.
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On January 03 2013 06:33 L3gendary wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2013 06:10 kaNt- wrote:On January 03 2013 06:03 L3gendary wrote:
Blues for typing.
Reds for gaming.
Browns for typing when there's people around you, probably a good choice as a middle of the road between typing and gaming.
I can tell that u will not notice the tactile bump when gaming. The browns make the most sense for touch typists in environments where you don't won't the noisy blues. You won't mind the sound of blues yourself, it's only annoying when other people type.
The double tapping is practically a non-issue because you are bottoming out when gaming anyway. It just means you have to let the key move up slightly higher than with a Red before pressing again. Thanks for the reply! I don´t feel that the Red are the best option for gaming. I mean linear switches are boring and it feels SIMILAR to the membrane keyboards. I said SIMILAR because they don´t feel quite the same. The Red are very light and linear so it´s not that different to a 10$ keyboard is terms of feedback, however the mechanical keyboard feels much more solid and smooth. Another very important thing are the keycaps, their quality have a huge impact in the keyboard feeling overall. The linear keyboards they really mean it, there is NO kind of springiness or any weird force bump whatsoever. I thought linear keyboards would feel more different to a membrane one. Right now i´m typing with a membrane keyboard and I don´t mind it. A lot of people say that after switching to mechanical they can´t type in a cheap keyboard ever but I don´t quite feel the same. With the linear switches I feel the mechanical keyboards are kinda hyped, but I trully hope tactile switches change my mind. My experience with the linear switches was very disappointing so I wanna try a tactile one. Browns seems to be good but I have to try them first, some people can´t see any differences between a Red and Browns. And I would like to try Blues and Brows to see if I like hardcore tactility or subtle feedback, both things seems to fit me well. Yeah sorry to tell you but mech keyboards have been way overhyped especially among starcraft fans and are not worth their cost in a truly utilitarian manner. But as with all "luxury" items you have to pay exponentially more to get only a slightly better product. Most brood war players played on the dirt cheap qsenn dt-35 membrane keyboards and it frankly makes no difference in-game, it all comes down to skill not what keyboard you have. If you just want a mech keyboard that's "fun" or just for the novelty of having one, or perhaps so you can justify the costs to yourself, then go with the Blues hands down. No other switch is gonna impress you if you're disappointed with the Reds. If you really can't get the Blues because there's people around you then save yourself the money and stick with the Reds. Also, people on geekhack are like audiophiles that will recommend you $300 headphones when you won't even notice the difference between it and a pair costing $150.
Well, I might sound like an angry nerd in my last post but I didn´t mean that XD.
I´m not upset because I got the a brand new Steelseries 6gv2 Red for free, no cost whatsoever. So i got like 100 bucks for free, I cannot complain. But a lot of keyboard devoted pages such as geekhack, deskauthority or overclock.net, etc overhyped them too much. I think that they aren´t worth to the very high price, except the cheaper ones. But my ´hope´ in mechanical keyboards may be restored with the tactile ones I might try one day, but please, don´t get fooled by the hype. If you are rich and don´t mind with the price buy as many one as you want. But if you are not rich (like me), think twice in making such inversion and try to type in some mechanical keyboards before buying them.
I would truly love to type a in a Filco to see if the quality is also hyped or it is true as they claim, however i will stick with the Reds for now.
Well, maybe I have to use more time my keyboards and get more confortable to the switches and with the keyboards itself.
I feel that the 6gv2 are pretty tall and not ergonomic.
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On January 03 2013 06:33 L3gendary wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2013 06:10 kaNt- wrote:On January 03 2013 06:03 L3gendary wrote:
Blues for typing.
Reds for gaming.
Browns for typing when there's people around you, probably a good choice as a middle of the road between typing and gaming.
I can tell that u will not notice the tactile bump when gaming. The browns make the most sense for touch typists in environments where you don't won't the noisy blues. You won't mind the sound of blues yourself, it's only annoying when other people type.
The double tapping is practically a non-issue because you are bottoming out when gaming anyway. It just means you have to let the key move up slightly higher than with a Red before pressing again. Thanks for the reply! I don´t feel that the Red are the best option for gaming. I mean linear switches are boring and it feels SIMILAR to the membrane keyboards. I said SIMILAR because they don´t feel quite the same. The Red are very light and linear so it´s not that different to a 10$ keyboard is terms of feedback, however the mechanical keyboard feels much more solid and smooth. Another very important thing are the keycaps, their quality have a huge impact in the keyboard feeling overall. The linear keyboards they really mean it, there is NO kind of springiness or any weird force bump whatsoever. I thought linear keyboards would feel more different to a membrane one. Right now i´m typing with a membrane keyboard and I don´t mind it. A lot of people say that after switching to mechanical they can´t type in a cheap keyboard ever but I don´t quite feel the same. With the linear switches I feel the mechanical keyboards are kinda hyped, but I trully hope tactile switches change my mind. My experience with the linear switches was very disappointing so I wanna try a tactile one. Browns seems to be good but I have to try them first, some people can´t see any differences between a Red and Browns. And I would like to try Blues and Brows to see if I like hardcore tactility or subtle feedback, both things seems to fit me well. Yeah sorry to tell you but mech keyboards have been way overhyped especially among starcraft fans and are not worth their cost in a truly utilitarian manner. But as with all "luxury" items you have to pay exponentially more to get only a slightly better product. Most brood war players played on the dirt cheap qsenn dt-35 membrane keyboards and it frankly makes no difference in-game, it all comes down to skill not what keyboard you have. If you just want a mech keyboard that's "fun" or just for the novelty of having one, or perhaps so you can justify the costs to yourself, then go with the Blues hands down. No other switch is gonna impress you if you're disappointed with the Reds. If you really can't get the Blues because there's people around you then save yourself the money and stick with the Reds. Also, people on geekhack are like audiophiles that will recommend you $300 headphones when you won't even notice the difference between it and a pair costing $150.
Wow, so much hatred in this post LOL.
Yeah, also, nice ninja from $50 to $150.
I have a pair of $150 headphones. I upgraded to a pair of $300 headphones. The $300 headphones are better in almost every way to the $150 headphones. I've also had a pair of $300 pair of headphones that were outdone by my other $300 headphones. Similarly, my $800 headphones crush my $300 headphones completely. You have no clue what you're talking about, so please stop spreading crap. Benefits aren't as marginal as you think. They're only marginal when you have zero perspective on what the differences actually are.
Mechanical keyboards are much more beneficial for your hands than membrane. I don't know how many times I've been emphasizing this, but the main benefit of mechanical switches is consistency.
With membrane keyboards, as you use the keys more and more, you'll notice that some keys feel stiffer than other keys. This is because membrane keyboards degrade over time. The membrane gets weaker, so it's easier to push down. Try a key like Pause on a membrane, versus A. Huge difference.
With mechanical keyboards, when a key fails, it fails spectacularly, as in it just fails. Every key press is exactly the same if you hit it at the same angle. What this means is that your muscle memory doesn't have to compensate over time, ever. Plus, the lighter actuation is actually more helpful in eliminating the possibility of RSI, since you're not stressing the muscles in your wrist as much, and what muscle memory encoded in the wrist doesn't change.
Saving money from not replacing keyboards as often is secondary. And everyone knows you can't possibly tell if you're benefiting from switching to mechanical (except maybe faster actuation from Reds). Your point about utility stands, ish.
Also, you guys are hugely stuck in a state of constant brand association. i.e. Filco good, Razer crap.
The feeling of a key has a ridiculously large number of factors, some of which I've outlined on the previous page. Filco's improvement over gaming keyboards is in the keyboard construction. That has almost nil effect on the feeling of the key. We're talking about flex, hardness and durability. This has no effect on the key, except maybe plate mounting to a lesser degree. With the key, you have key switch, keycap material, keycap printing, and a whole host of other factors. Filco executes on better keyboard construction than gaming manufacturers, but the switches will feel exactly the same if the same keys are used.
If all things are equal, on different keyboards, the same switch will feel exactly the same, irregardless of branding.
Also, extra mini-rant here, the problem with Razer has still always been quality control. While the keycaps feel slightly cheaper because of the wobble and plasticky texture, the problem is that everyone keeps saying, Razer fails more often. To provide evidence of this, they say, look at all the people complaining about Razer products. This completely disregards how "rates" work. Razer products are lower quality than Filco of course, but at the price level they sell at, it's not meant to compete with Filco.
Failure rate is number of failures per consumer. The number of people complaining, in a simplified world, is only dependent on the number of failures. We can only make inferences of rates from the number of people complaining, but a lot of you seem to associate the number of people complaining as the rate of failure. This is false. As I've been saying for a long while, the consumption of Razer products is superior to other gaming manufacturers, as I will say by simple Facebook number analysis. This means that as the number of people complaining goes up, it is equalized by the vastly larger number of people purchasing. In this case, there is absolutely no way any of you can say, Razer products fail more often.
Also keep in mind, the number of people complaining grows exponentially, so that simplified world doesn't work like that. If you hear lots of people complain, in general, more people will complain alongside with them, even if they wouldn't have otherwise.
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On January 03 2013 06:03 L3gendary wrote:
With mechanical keyboards, when a key fails, it fails spectacularly, as in it just fails. Every key press is exactly the same if you hit it at the same angle. What this means is that your muscle memory doesn't have to compensate over time, ever. Plus, the lighter actuation is actually more helpful in eliminating the possibility of RSI, since you're not stressing the muscles in your wrist as much, and what muscle memory encoded in the wrist doesn't change.
on the subject of RSI. i don't like the brown keys as much for that reason. your muscle memory is trained to release the key once it actuates before it bottoms out and it causes slightly more stress to quit the downward press mid motion rather than having the key reach the bottom and naturally stop the motion.
others may feel different about it but i do think it is an upgrade over membrane regardless.
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Also, people on geekhack are like audiophiles that will recommend you $300 headphones when you won't even notice the difference between it and a pair costing $150.
That's why they are called "GeekWhackers".
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Hey guys, I'm looking into getting a mechanical keyboard but I would appreciate some advice on it before potentially wasting my money. Unfortunately I have nowhere around here to actually test out different keyboards and switches so I'm stuck basing my order on what I read online and think I would like.
My primary use for my keyboard would be gaming. I do plenty of typing on it on forums/in games etc but I am not writing books or 20 page papers. Aside from SC2 the other game I play the most is probably Counter Strike. I do not play games as much as I use to, however I have recently been getting back into SC2 a lot and I think it's time for a new keyboard (which I said a year ago last time I got really into SC2).
Right now I have a Logitech G15R1. I have had this keyboard since it original came out and love it to death, however it is starting to get too old and beat up. Keys are getting worn out and feeling weird to press vs keys that are not normally used, the LEDs are starting to dim and almost die on a lot of keys even at their highest brightness.
I would very much love to get a mechanical keyboard but am running into a few predicaments. One is that I can't test them out before hand, the second is after having a G15 for this long I would really prefer to get one with a back light on it and the third is having at least one usb port in the keyboard. I'm not worried about sound it makes at all. In terms of feel, I'm more worried about SC2 than any other game. I know that if I get what's right for me/SC2 that I will be able to use anything on other games that are not nearly as competitive with a little bit of time to get used to it, however I know it would be a lot harder getting something bad and trying to force myself to get used to it and make it work for Starcraft.
From reading through multiple threads on multiple forums, I originally thought I would want red switches for a light easy press and not too much noise, however after reading more things it seems like red switches essentially feel the same as a normal keyboard, they just require slightly less effort to push down? Blacks, imo, seem like they would be bad for me as I'm not trying to put too much pressure into hitting keys I would prefer a lighter push. It seems like brown and blue are the switches to go for if you want the tactile feel. My question though is do the blues and browns cause issues when you are spamming a key like S for instance trying to warp in 10 stalkers? Does the way it pushes down and pops back up cause any problems with being able to spam the key and get the units out as fast as possible?
From what I can tell I think for me my best 2 options are brown or red and was really hoping some people on here could give me some advice on which might possibly be better for me, also even recommend a couple keyboards if possible. Ideally I would like one with a back light and at least 1 USB port on the keyboard.
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On January 03 2013 06:55 Blisse wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2013 06:33 L3gendary wrote:On January 03 2013 06:10 kaNt- wrote:On January 03 2013 06:03 L3gendary wrote:
Blues for typing.
Reds for gaming.
Browns for typing when there's people around you, probably a good choice as a middle of the road between typing and gaming.
I can tell that u will not notice the tactile bump when gaming. The browns make the most sense for touch typists in environments where you don't won't the noisy blues. You won't mind the sound of blues yourself, it's only annoying when other people type.
The double tapping is practically a non-issue because you are bottoming out when gaming anyway. It just means you have to let the key move up slightly higher than with a Red before pressing again. Thanks for the reply! I don´t feel that the Red are the best option for gaming. I mean linear switches are boring and it feels SIMILAR to the membrane keyboards. I said SIMILAR because they don´t feel quite the same. The Red are very light and linear so it´s not that different to a 10$ keyboard is terms of feedback, however the mechanical keyboard feels much more solid and smooth. Another very important thing are the keycaps, their quality have a huge impact in the keyboard feeling overall. The linear keyboards they really mean it, there is NO kind of springiness or any weird force bump whatsoever. I thought linear keyboards would feel more different to a membrane one. Right now i´m typing with a membrane keyboard and I don´t mind it. A lot of people say that after switching to mechanical they can´t type in a cheap keyboard ever but I don´t quite feel the same. With the linear switches I feel the mechanical keyboards are kinda hyped, but I trully hope tactile switches change my mind. My experience with the linear switches was very disappointing so I wanna try a tactile one. Browns seems to be good but I have to try them first, some people can´t see any differences between a Red and Browns. And I would like to try Blues and Brows to see if I like hardcore tactility or subtle feedback, both things seems to fit me well. Yeah sorry to tell you but mech keyboards have been way overhyped especially among starcraft fans and are not worth their cost in a truly utilitarian manner. But as with all "luxury" items you have to pay exponentially more to get only a slightly better product. Most brood war players played on the dirt cheap qsenn dt-35 membrane keyboards and it frankly makes no difference in-game, it all comes down to skill not what keyboard you have. If you just want a mech keyboard that's "fun" or just for the novelty of having one, or perhaps so you can justify the costs to yourself, then go with the Blues hands down. No other switch is gonna impress you if you're disappointed with the Reds. If you really can't get the Blues because there's people around you then save yourself the money and stick with the Reds. Also, people on geekhack are like audiophiles that will recommend you $300 headphones when you won't even notice the difference between it and a pair costing $150. Wow, so much hatred in this post LOL. Yeah, also, nice ninja from $50 to $150. Mechanical keyboards are much more beneficial for your hands than membrane. I don't know how many times I've been emphasizing this, but the main benefit of mechanical switches is consistency. With membrane keyboards, as you use the keys more and more, you'll notice that some keys feel stiffer than other keys. This is because membrane keyboards degrade over time. The membrane gets weaker, so it's easier to push down. Try a key like Pause on a membrane, versus A. Huge difference. Saving money from not replacing keyboards as often is secondary. And everyone knows you can't possibly tell if you're benefiting from switching to mechanical (except maybe faster actuation from Reds). Your point about utility stands, ish. Also, you guys are hugely stuck in a state of constant brand association. i.e. Filco good, Razer crap.
I don't know where you felt the hatred from, I have 2 mech keyboards myself including a filco brown and have tried all sorts of switches and keyboards that friends have and at stores. 6gv2, das, blackwidow etc. I don't think I would ever get a membrane keyboard again but that's cause the price of mechs isn't an issue for me.
Only thing i have a hatred for is the over hyping and over pricing of gaming products because some pros use them (mostly because they have to because it's in their contract). Not just keyboards but mice and headphones as well, razer and steelseries are the worst offenders. That's why you get gamers like our friend kant- here with high expectations that are ultimately disappointed, or worse, people that are deluded because they don't want to accept that they paid too much for what they were led to believe was the holy grail of gaming.
I didn't edit the price btw you must've mis-read the first time but it was an arbitrary value anyway.
Talking about degradation of membrane keyboards, yeah it's an issue but that only develops after 1-2 years of use. You can get like 10 dt-35 for the price of a mech. You don't actually notice the keys getting stiffer over time because it's gradual so it won't affect your abilities at all. You only notice the difference when you get a new keyboard and then it takes like 2 days to adjust. No matter how you look at it, the membrane keyboard is the cheaper route over time.
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+ Show Spoiler +On January 03 2013 08:44 Lunatics wrote:
Hey guys, I'm looking into getting a mechanical keyboard but I would appreciate some advice on it before potentially wasting my money. Unfortunately I have nowhere around here to actually test out different keyboards and switches so I'm stuck basing my order on what I read online and think I would like.
Not a waste. Do you do a lot of typing? If not, Do you spend most of your day beside a/your computer? Go with Browns or Blues.
+ Show Spoiler +My primary use for my keyboard would be gaming. I do plenty of typing on it on forums/in games etc but I am not writing books or 20 page papers. Aside from SC2 the other game I play the most is probably Counter Strike. I do not play games as much as I use to, however I have recently been getting back into SC2 a lot and I think it's time for a new keyboard (which I said a year ago last time I got really into SC2).
Ok you answered my question. That's what I said a year ago and I never looked back on my decision. No regrets.
+ Show Spoiler +Right now I have a Logitech G15R1. I have had this keyboard since it original came out and love it to death, however it is starting to get too old and beat up. Keys are getting worn out and feeling weird to press vs keys that are not normally used, the LEDs are starting to dim and almost die on a lot of keys even at their highest brightness.
Check out the new CM Storm TK, It has a num pad, lighting and small form factor.
+ Show Spoiler +I would very much love to get a mechanical keyboard but am running into a few predicaments. One is that I can't test them out before hand, the second is after having a G15 for this long I would really prefer to get one with a back light on it and the third is having at least one usb port in the keyboard. I'm not worried about sound it makes at all. In terms of feel, I'm more worried about SC2 than any other game. I know that if I get what's right for me/SC2 that I will be able to use anything on other games that are not nearly as competitive with a little bit of time to get used to it, however I know it would be a lot harder getting something bad and trying to force myself to get used to it and make it work for Starcraft.
I use reds and blues. First, I used blues for sc2. Switched to reds because I found myself gaming late at night and did not want to wake anyone. As for my suggestion above, you'll have to check if it has a USB port. If it does not have a USB port, the Blackwidow 2013 Ultimate would could be a potential choice for you.
+ Show Spoiler +From reading through multiple threads on multiple forums, I originally thought I would want red switches for a light easy press and not too much noise, however after reading more things it seems like red switches essentially feel the same as a normal keyboard, they just require slightly less effort to push down? Blacks, imo, seem like they would be bad for me as I'm not trying to put too much pressure into hitting keys I would prefer a lighter push. It seems like brown and blue are the switches to go for if you want the tactile feel. My question though is do the blues and browns cause issues when you are spamming a key like S for instance trying to warp in 10 stalkers? Does the way it pushes down and pops back up cause any problems with being able to spam the key and get the units out as fast as possible?
They do not feel like a regular keyboard. They do not feel mushy and unresponsive like membrane keys. Blacks are bad for typing, that's just my opinion. Some will argue that blacks are perfectly fine. You don't need to spam S for warp in, just hold the key down. I don't know if that's an issue you face with your current keyboard. I play random and when I play toss I just hold the letter of the unit I want to warp in. Oh, I just realized I hold shift and then spam left click. Your mechanic of spamming S seems like a bad habit. Your pressing a key and then clicking and then pressing a key and clicking again. Instead just Press W, UNIT, SHIFT, spam left click. This is more efficient. Spamming with blues might feel a little slower because the tactile bump is much more pronounced.
+ Show Spoiler +From what I can tell I think for me my best 2 options are brown or red and was really hoping some people on here could give me some advice on which might possibly be better for me, also even recommend a couple keyboards if possible. Ideally I would like one with a back light and at least 1 USB port on the keyboard.
Reds are nice. Though, they are less forgiving than the other switches. They also take a longer time to get used to because they easy to press. Can't give any other suggestions because I'm not sure of which boards that come to mind that has a USB port. Hopefully this helps with your decision if someone can give you some good suggestions.
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On January 03 2013 08:44 Lunatics wrote:
Hey guys, I'm looking into getting a mechanical keyboard but I would appreciate some advice on it before potentially wasting my money. Unfortunately I have nowhere around here to actually test out different keyboards and switches so I'm stuck basing my order on what I read online and think I would like.
My primary use for my keyboard would be gaming. I do plenty of typing on it on forums/in games etc but I am not writing books or 20 page papers. Aside from SC2 the other game I play the most is probably Counter Strike. I do not play games as much as I use to, however I have recently been getting back into SC2 a lot and I think it's time for a new keyboard (which I said a year ago last time I got really into SC2).
Right now I have a Logitech G15R1. I have had this keyboard since it original came out and love it to death, however it is starting to get too old and beat up. Keys are getting worn out and feeling weird to press vs keys that are not normally used, the LEDs are starting to dim and almost die on a lot of keys even at their highest brightness.
I would very much love to get a mechanical keyboard but am running into a few predicaments. One is that I can't test them out before hand, the second is after having a G15 for this long I would really prefer to get one with a back light on it and the third is having at least one usb port in the keyboard. I'm not worried about sound it makes at all. In terms of feel, I'm more worried about SC2 than any other game. I know that if I get what's right for me/SC2 that I will be able to use anything on other games that are not nearly as competitive with a little bit of time to get used to it, however I know it would be a lot harder getting something bad and trying to force myself to get used to it and make it work for Starcraft.
From reading through multiple threads on multiple forums, I originally thought I would want red switches for a light easy press and not too much noise, however after reading more things it seems like red switches essentially feel the same as a normal keyboard, they just require slightly less effort to push down? Blacks, imo, seem like they would be bad for me as I'm not trying to put too much pressure into hitting keys I would prefer a lighter push. It seems like brown and blue are the switches to go for if you want the tactile feel. My question though is do the blues and browns cause issues when you are spamming a key like S for instance trying to warp in 10 stalkers? Does the way it pushes down and pops back up cause any problems with being able to spam the key and get the units out as fast as possible?
From what I can tell I think for me my best 2 options are brown or red and was really hoping some people on here could give me some advice on which might possibly be better for me, also even recommend a couple keyboards if possible. Ideally I would like one with a back light and at least 1 USB port on the keyboard.
http://www.amazon.com/CM-Storm-Trigger-Mechanical-SGK-6000-GKCM1-US/dp/tech-data/B007TFOO6K/ref=de_a_smtd
That one should fit your needs pretty well as it has USB ports and full backlight (unless you don't like red LED) at a reasonable price. There's also Razer Blackwidow Ultimate, but as you read here that keyboard seems to have quality control issues.
I don't think there's a unanimous "best switch type" for certain tasks. I really enjoy playing SC2 or doing just about anything with my blues and never had a problem with spamming keys, but I've seen a lot of people online saying that they can't stand the clicky feel when they play games. It mostly comes down to personal preference. I've used black before this one for over a year and I never quite got over how stiff it was.
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Thanks m1rk3 for you response I appreciate it. I wasn't even aware I could just hold the unit key down with shift and spawn them heh. The CM storm is nice but sadly doesn't have a usb port but I will keep looking.
Since you have used both red and blue, which do you prefer (for SC2 specifically), do you think the brown might be a good one to consider as an in between for red and blue? Red comes to mind as my first choice however I'm afraid it might be TOO easy to press. Part of me kind of wants the tactile feel but if the reds are better/just as good without as much noise I may just go with those.
Edit: That version of the storm definitely looks like it fits my needs better. The size of the other one is appealing and choice of light colors however that one has everything I need I will definitely be bookmarking that. The Razer was one of my first options I looked into until reading about the problems most people seem to have with it.
Also is the 2013 Black Widow any improvement over the previous or is it too soon to tell if it's going to have the same issues or not?
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On January 03 2013 09:06 L3gendary wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2013 06:55 Blisse wrote:On January 03 2013 06:33 L3gendary wrote:On January 03 2013 06:10 kaNt- wrote:On January 03 2013 06:03 L3gendary wrote:
Blues for typing.
Reds for gaming.
Browns for typing when there's people around you, probably a good choice as a middle of the road between typing and gaming.
I can tell that u will not notice the tactile bump when gaming. The browns make the most sense for touch typists in environments where you don't won't the noisy blues. You won't mind the sound of blues yourself, it's only annoying when other people type.
The double tapping is practically a non-issue because you are bottoming out when gaming anyway. It just means you have to let the key move up slightly higher than with a Red before pressing again. Thanks for the reply! I don´t feel that the Red are the best option for gaming. I mean linear switches are boring and it feels SIMILAR to the membrane keyboards. I said SIMILAR because they don´t feel quite the same. The Red are very light and linear so it´s not that different to a 10$ keyboard is terms of feedback, however the mechanical keyboard feels much more solid and smooth. Another very important thing are the keycaps, their quality have a huge impact in the keyboard feeling overall. The linear keyboards they really mean it, there is NO kind of springiness or any weird force bump whatsoever. I thought linear keyboards would feel more different to a membrane one. Right now i´m typing with a membrane keyboard and I don´t mind it. A lot of people say that after switching to mechanical they can´t type in a cheap keyboard ever but I don´t quite feel the same. With the linear switches I feel the mechanical keyboards are kinda hyped, but I trully hope tactile switches change my mind. My experience with the linear switches was very disappointing so I wanna try a tactile one. Browns seems to be good but I have to try them first, some people can´t see any differences between a Red and Browns. And I would like to try Blues and Brows to see if I like hardcore tactility or subtle feedback, both things seems to fit me well. Yeah sorry to tell you but mech keyboards have been way overhyped especially among starcraft fans and are not worth their cost in a truly utilitarian manner. But as with all "luxury" items you have to pay exponentially more to get only a slightly better product. Most brood war players played on the dirt cheap qsenn dt-35 membrane keyboards and it frankly makes no difference in-game, it all comes down to skill not what keyboard you have. If you just want a mech keyboard that's "fun" or just for the novelty of having one, or perhaps so you can justify the costs to yourself, then go with the Blues hands down. No other switch is gonna impress you if you're disappointed with the Reds. If you really can't get the Blues because there's people around you then save yourself the money and stick with the Reds. Also, people on geekhack are like audiophiles that will recommend you $300 headphones when you won't even notice the difference between it and a pair costing $150. Wow, so much hatred in this post LOL. Yeah, also, nice ninja from $50 to $150. Mechanical keyboards are much more beneficial for your hands than membrane. I don't know how many times I've been emphasizing this, but the main benefit of mechanical switches is consistency. With membrane keyboards, as you use the keys more and more, you'll notice that some keys feel stiffer than other keys. This is because membrane keyboards degrade over time. The membrane gets weaker, so it's easier to push down. Try a key like Pause on a membrane, versus A. Huge difference. Saving money from not replacing keyboards as often is secondary. And everyone knows you can't possibly tell if you're benefiting from switching to mechanical (except maybe faster actuation from Reds). Your point about utility stands, ish. Also, you guys are hugely stuck in a state of constant brand association. i.e. Filco good, Razer crap. I don't know where you felt the hatred from, I have 2 mech keyboards myself including a filco brown and have tried all sorts of switches and keyboards that friends have and at stores. 6gv2, das, blackwidow etc. I don't think I would ever get a membrane keyboard again but that's cause the price of mechs isn't an issue for me. Only thing i have a hatred for is the over hyping and over pricing of gaming products because some pros use them (mostly because they have to because it's in their contract). Not just keyboards but mice and headphones as well, razer and steelseries are the worst offenders. That's why you get gamers like our friend kant- here with high expectations that are ultimately disappointed, or worse, people that are deluded because they don't want to accept that they paid too much for what they were led to believe was the holy grail of gaming. I didn't edit the price btw you must've mis-read the first time but it was an arbitrary value anyway. Talking about degradation of membrane keyboards, yeah it's an issue but that only develops after 1-2 years of use. You can get like 10 dt-35 for the price of a mech. You don't actually notice the keys getting stiffer over time because it's gradual so it won't affect your abilities at all. You only notice the difference when you get a new keyboard and then it takes like 2 days to adjust. No matter how you look at it, the membrane keyboard is the cheaper route over time.
You don't notice the hatred because you cut out the part where I accused you of speaking out of your ass about audiophile headphones. Gaming headphones are not audiophile, so don't use it as a catch-all. And speaking generally about these products is ridiculously stupid, especially providing an arbitrary value. Don't use it as an argument unless you know wtf you're talking about.
You are correct in that there's no extra utility of a mechanical over membranes, which I already noted, but there are much better ways to lower the expectations of a potential buyer instead of dismissing products as "fun" and extraneous.
However, it is somewhat wrong to say they have been overhyped. I don't know anyone who's opinion is worthwhile that actually hypes up mechanical keyboards as a godsend. Everyone simply agrees they're levels above membranes in quality. It is not the communities' fault that player look up to their progaming idols and want to use the same products they do. People are going to be disappointed regardless because many fail to actually research and go in blindly with wild expectations, That's not the fault of this community. But it's not to say we're not at blame for pushing mechanicals to the masses. We just shouldn't be at fault for individual failures to access how much they're willing to spend and what they're getting out of it.
As for the overpricedness of gaming products, it's hard to say because Logitech has been making mice in these price brackets for a long time. And it's going to happen irregardless simply because of marketing. Progaming teams contribute little to nothing to the price, only the volume of sales. Irregardless of that, all the mechanical keyboards nowadays are priced extremely competitively against the mechanical keyboards before this phenomena started, so I don't know where you are getting these ideas from.
And for the degradation of quality, yes, you probably won't notice a physical difference over time unless you actively comparing, but that's your brain. I'm talking about your muscles, and they will notice wear regardless of what you perceive. The point is, if your hand posture is poor, using a mechanical keyboard is less likely to harm you than using a membrane keyboard, by the simple fact that your muscle memory doesn't have to slowly re-wire itself all the time to account for the varying membrane resistances across the board.
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