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On March 08 2014 05:45 Myrmidon wrote:Isn't the issue when streaming the overhead from game capture and then encoding (also network resources)? If the desktop outputs video as if it were to the monitor and something else captures it, then there should be no overhead for the desktop. Looks like the elgato does hardware h.264 encoding (up to 1080p30 with 1080p60 input). That's what it says, and it's got to, considering the interface back to the comp is USB2. If you're willing to put up with presumably the lower quality/bitrate, that should work, and there really shouldn't be much left for the laptop to do, computationally. I mean, I don't think handling the broadcast software and overlays is all that much, but I've never tried that myself. (not enough upload bitrate or interest) I think the linked computer is out of stock. This for $450 has a normal-voltage i3 (also last gen...), so it's faster anyway, though I don't think that really matters: http://www.toshiba.com/us/computers/laptops/satellite/C50/C50-AST2NX2?src=MAKX&cm_mmc=Affiliates-_-Linkshare&siteID=dZCX6Je2w8Q-pnl2YwMR3D4ARJAyCo5LrQ
My apology to cyro, I haven't read the other post cause I thought it was irrelevant from my question cause I expected a simple answer. However this is the response I was looking for. Anyone agree or disagree with this laptop preforming what I simply need it to do. The bold is what I'm really concern'd about.
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On March 08 2014 17:27 CrayonSc2 wrote:
i did state it, i'm not trying to be a dick....
You said, "I want to stream better while playing on my main PC" and asked for opinions about what to do, presenting your current line of thinking which was building a second PC. You were then given a likely superior alternative in terms of cost and probably also performance for what you asked to do.
At no point did you say that you actually needed a second PC for someone to use. I already went back and looked. You can't very well expect people to read your mind.
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On March 08 2014 17:57 Craton wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2014 17:27 CrayonSc2 wrote:
i did state it, i'm not trying to be a dick.... You said, "I want to stream better while playing on my main PC" and asked for opinions about what to do, presenting your current line of thinking which was building a second PC. You were then given a likely superior alternative in terms of cost and probably also performance. At no point did you say that you actually needed a second PC for someone to use. I already went back and looked.
cyro asked me for what goal, do i need a second pc for. thats when i stated it was also for my gf on my edit. believe me, I blatantly wouldn't even ask this question if I was going to just upgrade my computer and do it that way. I've always consider'd that option but there was no need for it, that is why I asked this specific question on a second computer, but everythings been pushing on upgrading my current which is going besides the goal of the question. Also I did not say I WANT to stream better while playing on my pc, the whole purpose of the 2 computer setup is to avoid the gameplay lag I slightly deal with while I stream. Also the MAIN question was the requirements for the laptop to run the stream (OBS) with the capture card at a stable manner. Then I also asked if building a second tower with simple CPUs be better than a laptop. You can go ahead and reread my post and compare it to this one if you'd like.
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United Kingdom20326 Posts
Also I did not say I WANT to stream better while playing on my pc, the whole purpose of the 2 computer setup is to avoid the gameplay lag I slightly deal with while I stream.
That's what i meant exactly, using NVENC to avoid the gameplay lag and CPU load - and i said you could throw 570 in other system, but there's little point of that if you only want it to be used for watching movies, like you said.
I've always consider'd that option but there was no need for it
This is what really got me a lot: You want to stream better, but there was no need for your performance to be improved? You write that in kinda confusing way: You want less of a performance hit while streaming, yes, and also want a second system for gf to watch movies etc, right?
Just looking at cost/benefit stuff. At first it seemed like you wanted to blow like $500+ on a second system and capture card setup just to remove that lag when you could maybe do it with a gpu for 1/4 of the cost and without relying on a more complex setup, which was why i mentioned it and spent like an hour testing. It's confusing to throw around smaller posts like this without understanding situations :D
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On March 08 2014 19:02 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote +Also I did not say I WANT to stream better while playing on my pc, the whole purpose of the 2 computer setup is to avoid the gameplay lag I slightly deal with while I stream. That's what i meant exactly, using NVENC to avoid the gameplay lag and CPU load - and i said you could throw 570 in other system, but there's little point of that if you only want it to be used for watching movies, like you said.
I am very ignorant on what a NVENC is, can you explain please? Seems like this solutions seems great also.
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On March 09 2014 09:32 CrayonSc2 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2014 19:02 Cyro wrote:Also I did not say I WANT to stream better while playing on my pc, the whole purpose of the 2 computer setup is to avoid the gameplay lag I slightly deal with while I stream. That's what i meant exactly, using NVENC to avoid the gameplay lag and CPU load - and i said you could throw 570 in other system, but there's little point of that if you only want it to be used for watching movies, like you said. I am very ignorant on what a NVENC is, can you explain please? Seems like this solutions seems great also.
There's a video encoder on the newer NVIDIA cards and it's named "NVENC". It can provide a stream of h.264 video. That NVENC stuff was originally built into the GPUs to make it possible to wireless display stuff on a TV or other device without using any resources on the PC, the graphics card does all the work.
Using that NVENC thingy on the GPU should avoid that weird feel ingame that happens with the usual method where a normal program grabs each frame drawn by the graphics card and copies it to normal RAM to work on it with the CPU. I think when a program creates that copy of the framebuffer of the graphics card, this blocks the graphics card from doing its normal work for a tiny moment or something, creating that strange feel while playing even if FPS look fine.
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United Kingdom20326 Posts
To add to that:
OVERVIEW
NVENC - H.264 Hardware-Accelerated Video Encoding
The NVIDIA Encoder (NVENC) API enables software developers to access the high-performance H.264 hardware video encoder introduced in Kepler-class NVIDIA GPUs (See list of supported NVIDIA Quadro, Tesla and GRID GPUs below). NVENC provides high-quality video encoding that is faster and lower power compared to equivalent CUDA-based or CPU-based encoding. By dedicating hardware to the encoding task, it also frees up CUDA cores and/or the CPU to be used for other compute-intensive tasks. NVENC hardware is designed to support up to 8x real-time HD video encoding (1080p@30fps). This means the hardware can encode up to 240 frames per second of 1920x1080 progressive video.
There's also a video on youtube somewhere presenting shadowplay streaming i believe (with nvenc) but nvidia's work there is very honestly lazy at best (with shadowplay and features), and there was also lots of questionable stuff said, though the nvidia guys did mention the work they did to make performance hits on game significantly less than would be possible with a software solution and right now OBS seems to be the best way to use it, especially for streaming. It's definitely my go-to now for low-impact recording and everything with xsplit/OBS drove me crazy before in sc2's already bad engine, but i don't know much about using it in a lower bitrate or live environment yet.
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On March 09 2014 12:12 Cyro wrote:To add to that: Show nested quote + OVERVIEW
NVENC - H.264 Hardware-Accelerated Video Encoding
The NVIDIA Encoder (NVENC) API enables software developers to access the high-performance H.264 hardware video encoder introduced in Kepler-class NVIDIA GPUs (See list of supported NVIDIA Quadro, Tesla and GRID GPUs below). NVENC provides high-quality video encoding that is faster and lower power compared to equivalent CUDA-based or CPU-based encoding. By dedicating hardware to the encoding task, it also frees up CUDA cores and/or the CPU to be used for other compute-intensive tasks. NVENC hardware is designed to support up to 8x real-time HD video encoding (1080p@30fps). This means the hardware can encode up to 240 frames per second of 1920x1080 progressive video. There's also a video on youtube somewhere presenting shadowplay streaming i believe (with nvenc) but nvidia's work there is very honestly lazy at best (with shadowplay and features), and there was also lots of questionable stuff said, though the nvidia guys did mention the work they did to make performance hits on game significantly less than would be possible with a software solution and right now OBS seems to be the best way to use it, especially for streaming. It's definitely my go-to now for low-impact recording and everything with xsplit/OBS drove me crazy before in sc2's already bad engine, but i don't know much about using it in a lower bitrate or live environment yet.
this sounds very groundbreaking. so i'll test it out with my current setup and see how i feel about it. if i'm happy with the results, then i'll just get my gf a cheap laptop for movies and whatnot.
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United Kingdom20326 Posts
this sounds very groundbreaking. so i'll test it out with my current setup and see how i feel about it.
You'd need a ~650ti+ to use it effectively, that's why i just mentioned it instead of outright telling you to try it ^.^
If there's money to be spent it's maybe an effective way. I don't know of much results though, it's a relatively new thing. There will be some talk on the OBS forums, i bet
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On March 09 2014 12:38 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote +this sounds very groundbreaking. so i'll test it out with my current setup and see how i feel about it. You'd need a ~650ti+ to use it effectively, that's why i just mentioned it instead of outright telling you to try it ^.^ If there's money to be spent it's maybe an effective way. I don't know of much results though, it's a relatively new thing. There will be some talk on the OBS forums, i bet
Is it possible If i do a SLI that it will also be used effectively. Because If i do decide to get a new card, I'll have no use for this one.
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United Kingdom20326 Posts
You can't SLI between different GPU's, only between two 570's etc
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In the past AMD cards could pair with slightly different cards, e.g. a 4850 with a 4870. Googling around seems to indicate Nvidia hasn't worked like that, but I don't see much on modern AMD cards about if they can still do this.
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United Kingdom20326 Posts
They can if it's the same die, like you can have a quadfire with a 7970, 7950, 280x, 280 AFAIK, but i don't think nvidia allows the same (etc 770 + 760 sli)
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thats what i ment, if I sli 2 570gtx will it do nvenc just as well as getting a 770
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United Kingdom20326 Posts
Fermi cards (4xx, 5xx) don't have nvenc so it's not an option, but regardless i think the master card has to do all of the encoding in an sli setup
+ Show Spoiler +
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On March 09 2014 13:35 Cyro wrote:Fermi cards (4xx, 5xx) don't have nvenc so it's not an option, but regardless i think the master card has to do all of the encoding in an sli setup + Show Spoiler +
so your saying my 570gtx doesnt support the NVENC and I need a 6series or above to get that working?
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United Kingdom20326 Posts
Yes, it's technically 650+ but 650ti is way better than the 650 and pretty much the lowest GPU to support it and do stuff like max sc2 well. It's similar strength to your current GPU, IIRC (though might be off by quite a bit.. i don't remember exactly)
Your best option might be to read up a bit, wait for more data (OBS forum should have some, I'll look there later, if it turns out to be good to use (i think it might be for low-impact streaming) then maybe just grab a Maxwell card for your next GPU upgrade (they're releasing throughout this year, we only have the weakest 28nm maxwell gpu right now, for 750/750ti.. which should be better than your current GPU oc'd, and use less than 1/3 of the power - the midrange ~800 series gpu would be a good upgrade for you, if you wanted it)
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Is what's supposed to come out Q1 2014 (I guess this month) in the 800 series expected to be above the current high-end card (even if only a little) or just midrange cards only?
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United Kingdom20326 Posts
There are two generations of Maxwell GPUs
It has been revealed by newest CUDA driver that NVIDIA will make two generations of Maxwell GPUs:
28nm: GM108, GM107
20nm: GM206, GM204, GM200
Maxwell will kick off with GM107, but this is not the only Maxwell based on 28nm process. The GM108 will follow it later in GeForce GT 840M. Looking even further we shall see GM200 parts, most likely based on 20nm process, that would be real high-end segment replacement. At this point we don’t know when 20nm process will arrive.
I thought there were ~3 28nm dies and didn't hear this about apparently the other being for 840m, so probably unlikely to see anything big in q1 or even q2
Been playing with nvenc, won't take 1080p120 but it's handling 720p120 fine so that's funny and also useful for testing things and showing stuff like sc2 microstutter in slow motion, since it seems excellent at recording that
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Does that mean what's on the market now is going to remain the best until Q3+?
Do any of you have experience with RAID 5 in general? Since large NAS units are so expensive I was just going to make use of my 4 empty bays and grab a SATA controller. I discovered today that it seems Windows 7 does not have software support for a RAID 5 equivalent (just 0/1 basically), so basically it seems I need to do a hardware solution or a third-party solution and I don't really know where to start with researching those.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/4TgaHuE.png)
