Mouse - Zowie Mico - Page 5

pshych0

274 Posts

June 14 2011 19:43 GMT

#81

On June 15 2011 03:57 Loser777 wrote:
How small is this mouse? I thought I had "small hands" but I palm a MX518.

The shape/size is almost identical to the Logitech mini. Pics from china... (for the review using google translate go << here >>)

Glockateer

United States254 Posts

June 14 2011 20:26 GMT

#82

We should call it the ZMO. I'm getting one as soon as it is available in the USA. : )

ryan1894

Australia264 Posts

June 14 2011 22:12 GMT

#83

On June 15 2011 03:25 Zapdos_Smithh wrote:

Show nested quote +

On June 14 2011 21:31 ryan1894 wrote:

On June 14 2011 18:16 Zapdos_Smithh wrote:

On June 14 2011 16:58 Glockateer wrote:
I don't care if you're on 1920x1080, 1600 is more than enough DPI on any resolution. An inch to go across is fast as it is and you'll lose even more accuracy for having it go too fast.

You don't lose accuracy with high dpi and low sens/window speed. I just got in a Roccat Kova Plus today, and previously I was using a Razer Salmosa which I used for 4 years. The Salmosa had 1800 dpi and I was maxing the sensitivity + windows speed and it still wasn't fast enough. The Kova I have at 3200 dpi which imo could be even higher.

I've been doing testing and I've come to the conclusion that DPI is basically the accuracy of the mouse, and as a result it brings a natural speed. I tested 400 DPI compared to 3200 DPI under the same windows speed + sensitivity settings and the 3200 was obviously much faster. However, if I wanted to bring the 400 up to the speed of the 3200..because the 400 was too slow...I would have to increase the sensitivity + windows speed drastically. As a result the accuracy was terrible. Basically glitched across the screen as opposed to smoothly moving across. I could barely even select single marines. However, if you use 3200 dpi and reduce the windows speed + sensitivity settings, you get the same overall in game speed but you gain good accuracy. Basically it was the same speed but I could easily select my unit. Though I couldn't fully reduce the sensitivity, I still had to have it up just a bit.

What's the point? Point being the combo of very high DPI and low sensitivity allows you to have high speed AND high accuracy.

Sure, you 1600 may be sufficient for some people, but that doesn't mean it's necessarily ideal or good. If you want it fast you will lose accuracy, however you won't lose the accuracy with high DPI.

I hope my testing illustrates why high dpi is really beneficial for sc2 which revolves around mice with high speed and high accuracy.

1) DPI stands for Dots per Inch, or in more relevant terms, Pixels per inch. Zero to do with accuracy.
2) The reason why increasing sensitivity + windows speed reduces accuracy is because Windows doesn't interpolate movement, and does not extrapolate movement. You should never change windows sensitivity from 6/11. For every notch away from that, you will lose 0.5 pixels of movement per pixel of movement interpreted by your mouse
Solution:
Leave windows sensitivity at 6/11
Put sensitivity settings at <halfway
Put DPI settings to actual settings - how many pixels you want your cursor to travel per inch of real movement.

I tried that but the mouse now was too slow at 1600...I had to raise the sensitivity and windows speed and SC2 speed for it to catch up. Also though, how is accuracy not related to DPI? I don't get your statement there. DPI = dots per inch. More pixels/dots per inch = being able to have more places in a single inch of screen to move. Being able to select more pixels in an inch = more accurate...how is this not wrong?

If you can find me a way to get a very accurate and very high speed set-up with 1600 dpi that would be awesome because I really love the shape of this mouse. However in all my tests it's either too slow or not sensitive enough.

Obviously you have no idea what accuracy means.

Let me refer to this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accuracy_and_precision

the accuracy[1] of a measurement system is the degree of closeness of measurements of a quantity to that quantity's actual (true) value.

Where the actual value is actual distance travelled on surface x DPI.
You are not meant to tweak sensitivity settings. You are not meant to tweak windows mouse settings.
Sensitivity settings should ALWAYS be set at halfway. Windows mouse settings should ALWAYS be set at the 6th notch.
DPI should be tweaked to compensate.

Increasing DPI does not increase accuracy. Depending on your windows sensitivity settings and mouse settings, changing DPI will either reduce accuracy or increase it.

1) Increasing windows mouse settings past the 6th notch will result in skipping each 1/2 a pixel. Thus the 11th notch will result in loss in 2.5 pixels of precision, essentially meaning you won't hit every even pixel.
2) Increasing sensitivity settings will result in the same
3) leaving them at the middle-most setting will result in 1:1 movement, thus adjusting DPI will actually adjust sensitivity, as DPI IS SENSITIVITY.

This will result in 100% accuracy times DPI.

Zapdos_Smithh

Canada2620 Posts

June 14 2011 22:37 GMT

#84

On June 15 2011 07:12 ryan1894 wrote:

Show nested quote +

On June 15 2011 03:25 Zapdos_Smithh wrote:

On June 14 2011 21:31 ryan1894 wrote:

On June 14 2011 18:16 Zapdos_Smithh wrote:

Obviously you have no idea what accuracy means.

Let me refer to this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accuracy_and_precision

Show nested quote +

What about sc2 sensitivity, where should that be

Edit:

I'm assuming 50 but when I put it at 50 at those settings you said, the mouse doesn't move fast enough, even with 3200 dpi.

pshych0

274 Posts

June 14 2011 23:00 GMT

#85

+ Show Spoiler +

On June 15 2011 07:37 Zapdos_Smithh wrote:

Show nested quote +

What about sc2 sensitivity, where should that be

Edit:

I'm assuming 50 but when I put it at 50 at those settings you said, the mouse doesn't move fast enough, even with 3200 dpi.

Leave the windows settings at the 6th notch. In sc2 your setting should not be a multiplier of 5. So not 50 or 55 or 60 or 80...set it to 51, 54 or w/e...read more here.
But honestly, if i remember correctly from one of your previous posts on the salmosa, max win sens, max dpi and max sc2 sens...that ALOT. You use really really high sens. Do you move your mouse half an inch to go from one side of the screen to the other? At such a high sensitivity i dont think i can have any sort of accuracy. And not, dpi doesnt help u at all. For accuracy, you need low sens, dpi doesnt really matter as long as the mouse does exactly what it's supposed to do. Counter-strike pros use really low sens hence the huge mouse pads. In BW its higher but still alot lower than what you use. I could look for a vid with Nada but im lazy...you can clearly see he moves hes hand from the wrist left and right pretty much as much as he can.

UserErrOr413

United States178 Posts

June 15 2011 00:08 GMT

#86

On June 14 2011 05:02 DueleR wrote:
Did some digging to figure out what was going on with the US release since it initially said June 1st. Ended up at Zowie's official facebook page, turns out some guy had asked when the mico would be available in the the US, and they replied that they expected it would be available July 1st. So it won't be for another couple of weeks it seems.

Thanks! I've been search all over trying to find the mouse and its not released

a176

Canada6688 Posts

June 15 2011 04:53 GMT

#87

Has anyone actually seen startale use this mouse

sinani206

United States1959 Posts

June 15 2011 05:43 GMT

#88

Well I use all 3500DPI of a DeathAdder for 1366x768 (6/11 Win, 51/100 SC2). Increasing or decreasing the DPI doesn't change accuracy, just sensitivity. You just have to get used to whatever setting you use. It just depends on how much you care.

Ghostface_Killa

United States168 Posts

June 16 2011 22:09 GMT

#89

ZOWIE MICO REVIEW:

Sensor: Nearly flawless with little to no prediction and/or acceleration.

Size / Shape: Handles like the Logitech Mini Optical and/or Logitech G3. It's short which allows for vertical movement, however it's so short that you may end up using a finger-tip grip. Widthwise the Mico will be far too narrow for most gamers regardless of their hand size or grip, which, with prolonged use, may lead to Carpal Tunnel Syndrome and/or Ulnar Nerve Entrapment no matter what you or your mama think (btw I have small hands); it does however have flat sides, which allows for a wider grip than similar mice with rounded sides such as the Abyssus or G3.

Weight: One of the lightest yet well-balanced mice I've ever used. This has not sacrificed precision as the DPI is capped at 1600 DPI.

Texture: It feels like a hybrid between rubberized coating and traditional matte plastic. There's glossy plastic on the sides but my fingers hardly make contact with them.

Mouse Feet: Slick and of high quality. Their small size may sacrifice overall smoothness however this is compensated with less friction, allowing for quicker hand movements.

Cord: Flexible yet sturdier than the Abysuss'

Scroll Wheel: Less tactile scroll then ANY mouse I've ever used; not recommended for FPS, but pleasurable for daily use. Soft middle click.

Left & Right Click:
What makes the Zowie Mico unique is its buttons' custom-built switches. They feel as they're described by the manufacturer, but unless you've experienced them for yourself you won't know what to expect. That said, if I had to compare the Mico's buttons I'd they're a louder and slightly crisper version of the Logitech G3. They're easy to click and very tactile, however, there's a faint springiness which I don't like because it sometimes feel like the buttons are sticking, especially the right click which is (too) much harder to press. This almost ruins the mouse for me, but I'm hoping this goes away as I break them.

Build Quality: It feels like a $10 mouse but it performs like a $50 + mouse, so no worries here.

FINAL THOUGHTS: Though far from perfect I prefer using the Zowie Mico for SC2 over most other mice I've used. It's light weight and easy-to-click buttons allow for greater dexterity and less hand fatigue, as you don't have to clench the mouse to apply enough pressure to press them. This can prevent RSI, which is why I got it.

I'm sticking with the Mico for now, but will switch back to the G700 or MX518 if the Mico's buttons don't break in and/or its narrow shape causes me discomfort. One last thing: if you're trying to decide between multiple mice I'd suggest using several different ones for separate tasks, that way you don't cause your hand muscle atrophy by holding one mouse in the same position day-in, day-out. Hope this helps!

Other mice I've gamed with up until now:

Logitech G700 (daily productive mouse):
Pros: buttons are easy to claw. short enough for vertical movement. wireless yet performs just as well or better than any wired gaming mice I've ever used
cons: slightly heavy. one-day battery life (don't rely on the cord to recharge your battery - buy a separate rechargeable battery kit)

Steelseries Ikari (daily ergonomic mouse):
pros: accurate. wide and comfortable. can be clawed or finger-tipped with lots of practice. buttons are easiest to click on the market
cons: incompatible with most gaming mats. may be too wide for most.

Logitech G3:
pros: performs well and feels most similar to the Mico
cons: rounded sides encourages a far too narrow grip which can cause RSI

Logitech G9X:
Pros: premium quality, good sensor, two comfortable wide grips. Cons: heavy, causes discomfort around thumb and index finger, middle click beyond stiff, left and right click curve too low in the front and are too stiff in the back

Razer Abyssus:
Pros: ambidextrous, light, good sensor and buttons
Cons: too long and narrow. round sides encourages a much narrower grip which can RSI. glossy plastic attracts dirt and sweat.

Steelseries Kinzu:
pros: nice texture, well-balanced, feels sturdy
cons: acceleration. buttons are too stiff further back

Logitech MX518:
pros: light. good sensor buttons easy to click in front and back. despite how it looks it's easy to claw with small hands. decent vertical movement.
cons: light prediction and/or acceleration (forget which one… but I hardly noticed).

Zowie EC2:
pros: buttons are much different than the Mico's; easy to click and feel similar but arguably better than Razer's. good sensor. comes in large or small; large is similar to death adder, small is similar to the classic MS Optical. plug and play
cons: only 3 buttons, glossy plastic on the black version which accumulate dirt and sweat.

Glockateer

United States254 Posts

June 16 2011 22:25 GMT

#90

Zapdos, the "more dots per inch" only applies to a shooter game. You can't get "more accurate" than a 1:1 pixel ratio. It is bad if you go more than 1 or less than one. Your cursor won't move half a pixel on the screen whereas a shooter game, which is 3D, has aiming by degrees. That is why DPI is nothing more than sensitivity in a RTS world.

a176

Canada6688 Posts

June 16 2011 23:50 GMT

#91

Where did you get the mouse from?

Ghostface_Killa

United States168 Posts

June 17 2011 01:25 GMT

#92

On June 17 2011 08:50 a176 wrote:
Where did you get the mouse from?

E-Bay. Seller says he's in China but it shipped from CA in a few days time. Those mouse should be available in the states around July 1.

Btw you guys should discuss the DPI issue on another thread, as that topic has been beaten to death since 1999. This is about the Mico, not a pissing contest about who knows more on DPI.

UserErrOr413

United States178 Posts

June 17 2011 01:34 GMT

#93

Agh, It is available on the zowie site now! But too massive of a shipping cost from there for me. Plus it is in euros on the zowie store site.

34.90 + 22.00 (shipping) euros to get to Minnesota. No thanks haha. Hopefully it will show up sooner in the states than July 1st. I don't do e-bay.

Ghostface_Killa

United States168 Posts

June 17 2011 01:48 GMT

#94

[/QUOTE]

What about sc2 sensitivity, where should that be

Edit:

I'm assuming 50 but when I put it at 50 at those settings you said, the mouse doesn't move fast enough, even with 3200 dpi.[/QUOTE]

51%-54%... You're insane if you think 3200 DPI @ 50% is too slow, unless of course you're on a 30+ inch monitor. If you're on a 22-24 inch and find 3200 DPI slow I'm assuming you've got the following issues:

1) a bulky mouse
2) worn out mouse feet. consider hyperglidez or corepad skates
3) high friction mouse pad. consider Zowie G-TF Speed (when it's available) or a plastic mat

As a result I'm sure you're actually less accurate and/or slower than most 1600 DPI users bc you must constantly stop on a dime at 3200 DPI, which from my experience is far harder than moving your wrist an extra inch in any direction.

unfo

Germany31 Posts

June 17 2011 10:36 GMT

#95

I just received my Mico, but I'm going to insta-return it. Sure the buttons are nice, and the shape feels alright too, but I can't stand mice with prediction. 400 and 800 dpi are fine, but I was going to use it at 1600 exclusively, and at that setting some prediction / weird behaviour is very noticable:
http://i.imgur.com/hzDSL.jpg

Not sure if that would actually affect my gaming performance, but I'm not paying 40€ for a mouse that isn't 100%.

ryan1894

Australia264 Posts

June 17 2011 10:53 GMT

#96

On June 17 2011 19:36 unfo wrote:
I just received my Mico, but I'm going to insta-return it. Sure the buttons are nice, and the shape feels alright too, but I can't stand mice with prediction. 400 and 800 dpi are fine, but I was going to use it at 1600 exclusively, and at that setting some prediction / weird behaviour is very noticable:
http://i.imgur.com/hzDSL.jpg

Not sure if that would actually affect my gaming performance, but I'm not paying 40€ for a mouse that isn't 100%.

Its the closest we've got to 100% atm.

Also it looks like you can't draw spirals lol, and also looks like you're not attempting to draw straight lines, but wavey lines...and I think your windows sensitivity is not 6/11 - each jump at 1600 looks like 2-4 pixels apart...

unfo

Germany31 Posts

June 17 2011 11:13 GMT

#97

On June 17 2011 19:53 ryan1894 wrote:

Show nested quote +

Nah my Abyssus is closer to 100%. I prefer that one.

Ofc I attempt to draw wavey lines. The prediction makes them appear straight.

Windows sens is 6/11, the 2 pixel jump is the weird behaviour I was talking about.

ryan1894

Australia264 Posts

June 17 2011 11:36 GMT

#98

On June 17 2011 20:13 unfo wrote:

Show nested quote +

Doesn't the abyssus have higher LoD and also jitter on cloth?

all of razer's cords are really thin so they break within like 2 years anyway...

also, possibly mousepad?

a176

Canada6688 Posts

June 17 2011 11:39 GMT

#99

one guy says no prediction, the other says there is ... what is it?!

+ Show Spoiler +

not that i actually care about that, ha

stafu

Australia1196 Posts

June 17 2011 12:31 GMT

#100

On June 14 2011 17:58 ryan1894 wrote:

Show nested quote +

That's a little more than 1.5x desktops in an inch. i.e. 2 thirds of an inch for your desktop. I'm pretty sure not many people use that kind of sensitivity.

Show nested quote +

It doesn't have prediction, or has prediction mild enough not to be noticed when he drew the circle/spirals in that image they uploaded.

Not strong prediction perhaps, but it's definitely there.

Also just saw this on ESR, looks like 1600 DPI has some weird behaviour going on (at least on this guys).
[image loading]

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