EPTThe Ultimate Mouse Thread - Page 161
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Cyro
United Kingdom20326 Posts
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wptlzkwjd
Canada1240 Posts
http://gaming.logitech.com/en-ca/product/g502-proteus-core-tunable-gaming-mouse I want to see someone playing SC2 with its 12k DPI. Preferably a Terran. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20326 Posts
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semantics
10040 Posts
On April 19 2014 10:58 Cyro wrote: no idea why anyone would want to use 24x my sensitivity but i wish them good luck in competing for accuracy x3 zeesh you play at 500dpi that's like what 4 inches horz to move across a 1920 screen, fine for fps but rts you'll set your mousepad aflame moving that much diagonally for selections and deselections. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20326 Posts
On April 19 2014 12:02 semantics wrote: zeesh you play at 500dpi that's like what 4 inches horz to move across a 1920 screen, fine for fps but rts you'll set your mousepad aflame moving that much diagonally for selections and deselections. 800 prob best for sc2. 500 good for LoL and osu though, as LoL doesn't have those kinds of demands like sc2 does yet benefits from accuacy, and Osu does not stretch to widescreen very much and it's better to use a smaller window if you have a big screen anyway (so it's more equivalent of ~675dpi for example, what i use for most demanding stuff) I don't think there's much argument for using over ~1k with sc2. If you wanna see what full size, 1920x1080 w/ 500dpi looks like -https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gleyeG5VE-U I would use 800 if i could, but 500 isn't really hurting me significantly. I worried about it, but now i'm fine sitting around like this 'til i'm confident enough to buy something like an Avior 7000 that's like what 4 inches horz to move across a 1920 screen, fine for fps For FPS, me and a few friends use about 20-40cm/180, depending on the player and the game. | ||
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wptlzkwjd
Canada1240 Posts
On April 19 2014 10:58 Cyro wrote: no idea why anyone would want to use 24x my sensitivity but i wish them good luck in competing for accuracy x3 Flash might have if his wrist didn't die on him. Gotta use that 12k DPI to micro each marine and scv individually. I actually use 400 DPI (lowest on the MiCO) setting on a 1080p so 12k is pretty much unimaginable to me... | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20326 Posts
On April 19 2014 16:09 wptlzkwjd wrote: Flash might have if his wrist didn't die on him. Gotta use that 12k DPI to micro each marine and scv individually. Screen edge to screen edge in 0.4 centimeters is beyond ridiculous, i have 100x that much room on my mousepad in vertical orientation (less width) | ||
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semantics
10040 Posts
On April 19 2014 16:09 wptlzkwjd wrote: Flash might have if his wrist didn't die on him. Gotta use that 12k DPI to micro each marine and scv individually. I actually use 400 DPI (lowest on the MiCO) setting on a 1080p so 12k is pretty much unimaginable to me... Back when i used 1080p monitors i actually use 2700 dpi on my g9x given that steps of 90 was native to that sensor. Consider I played sc1 back in the day (2003 to like 2009) a 640x480 game on 800dpi mice I'm more inclined for faster movements. How anyone can play sc2 on 1080p with less than 1800dpi is beyond me. Hell even the trusty old IE3.0 and Mini optical mouse were 400 dpi mice. pixels cancel and you're left with dpi as units 400 dpi ---------- 1920 pixels ----------------- x ------------------ = 1200 equivalent dpi 640 pixels ------ 400 dpi ---------- 1080 pixels ----------------- x ------------------ = 900 equivalent dpi 480 pixels ------ they aren't the same as 4:3 into 16: 9 is pretty different But if you're looking for similar horizontal movement you'd need 1200dpi on a 1920 wide screen. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20326 Posts
640x480 = 480 height - with 400dpi, it's 1.2 inches to cross screen top to bottom with 1920x1080 (1080 height) you need 900dpi for the same distance. The number is bigger if you take the extra width into account, but the correct way to do that is very subjective, if you do it at all. How anyone can play sc2 on 1080p with less than 1800dpi is beyond me. Quite a few pro's use way less than that. Snute uses 600 now i hear - a majority of the "good" micro players like Marineking, as far as i know, tended towards 800 or so. I think Flash even originally used less in his first sc2 VOD's, but it's hard to tell. | ||
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wptlzkwjd
Canada1240 Posts
On April 19 2014 17:16 Cyro wrote: When comparing across aspect ratio's i prefer to use vertical height 640x480 = 480 height - with 400dpi, it's 1.2 inches to cross screen top to bottom with 1920x1080 (1080 height) you need 900dpi for the same distance. The number is bigger if you take the extra width into account, but the correct way to do that is very subjective, if you do it at all. Quite a few pro's use way less than that. Snute uses 600 now i hear - a majority of the "good" micro players like Marineking, as far as i know, tended towards 800 or so. I think Flash even originally used less in his first sc2 VOD's, but it's hard to tell. I think Flash used 400 DPI as well. Not 100% sure but I remember seeing him using a MiCO with the 400 DPI color glowing on the middle mouse button. On the KT Rolster version of the MiCO, the 400 DPI color is red. | ||
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Nimix
France1809 Posts
How anyone can play sc2 on 1080p with less than 1800dpi is beyond me. Have you even tried? 800 dpi doesn't even requires me to lift my hand ever, and my hands are pretty small ^o) I don't see why I would play with more, I have no difficulty whatsoever drawing boxes across the entire screen in 1080p.. This logitech mouse the canadian guy with a strange nick linked looks good, if the sensor is as good as they advertise it I could see me using that  It's pretty expensive though | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20326 Posts
On April 19 2014 21:10 Nimix wrote: Have you even tried? 800 dpi doesn't even requires me to lift my hand ever, and my hands are pretty small ^o) I don't see why I would play with more, I have no difficulty whatsoever drawing boxes across the entire screen in 1080p.. This logitech mouse the canadian guy with a strange nick linked looks good, if the sensor is as good as they advertise it I could see me using that It's pretty expensive thoughthere's no sensor anywhere near as solid as 3090/3310 capable of those dpi levels, so it'd probably be worse than an entire array of cheaper mice, like the Sensei was - flashy features or not | ||
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Nimix
France1809 Posts
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semantics
10040 Posts
On April 19 2014 21:10 Nimix wrote: Have you even tried? 800 dpi doesn't even requires me to lift my hand ever, and my hands are pretty small ^o) I don't see why I would play with more, I have no difficulty whatsoever drawing boxes across the entire screen in 1080p.. This logitech mouse the canadian guy with a strange nick linked looks good, if the sensor is as good as they advertise it I could see me using that It's pretty expensive thoughNo point now my monitor is 3840 wide now, plus i've played on low dpi for fps, it's fine; for rts it requires far too much picking up of the mouse and it's impossible to use a purely fingertip only grip, my preferred grip. The point was i don't see how people find that comfortable, hell trackballs were good enough back in my doom and UT days only reason i ditched tackballs for games was rts games trackballs weren't good enough for quick movements plus rapid clicking. Having to move the mouse nearly 2 inches on avg is a chore macro styles of play can be done perfectly well at much higher dpi. On April 19 2014 21:28 Nimix wrote: Yeah I guess, the "sensor adapts to your mousepad" thing seems fishy as hell, shame cause the shape looked nice. Doesn't really seem fishy, as much as what's the point. The only thing it's likely to be doing is adjusting the led and or the sensor to increase how much it's the sensor is able to pick up and improve tracking. Adjusting the sensor settings is more likely, as changing the wavelength or brightness(which could reduce reflections) of a led requires quite a bit extra circuitry and specific kinds of leds. But given how well the sensor already tracks and people willing to pop down 80USD to buy a mouse are likely to have a proper surface, it may as well be pointless. Although it may lower the LOD and be desired for that trait. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20326 Posts
No point now my monitor is 3840 wide now, plus i've played on low dpi for fps, it's fine; for rts it requires far too much picking up of the mouse and it's impossible to use a purely fingertip only grip, my preferred grip. The point was i don't see how people find that comfortable, hell trackballs were good enough back in my doom and UT days only reason i ditched tackballs for games was rts games trackballs weren't good enough for quick movements plus rapid clicking. Having to move the mouse nearly 2 inches on avg is a chore macro styles of play can be done perfectly well at much higher dpi. Well, a mousepad like a qck+ is 45cm long. If you have to move the mouse 2 inches (~5.08cm) then it's like 12% of the width of the pad - you're just going to move it back along the same space anyway, you rarely have to pick up @2 inches to cross screen on the widest axis sens. Sure, you can play quite well, especially if you're focused on strategy, with higher DPI - but you gain accuracy and the ability to consistently and quickly place the mouse cursor where you want it to be with very little delay - for a precise action like dropping 5 forcefields back to back to back with no gaps or overlap between them, or selecting individual units. DPI isn't really relevant for FPS, cm/180 is probably the best way to measure. Aiming and general mouse usage is different enough for the "accepted" sensitivity range to be extremely different (10cm to cross screen is VERY VERY low for 2d, yet very high for a 180 turn in FPS..) | ||
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Ropid
Germany3557 Posts
"Sensor adapts to your mousepad" stuff makes it so the LOD gets reduced to something very low. If you then try to use it on a different mousepad, it can have tracking problems. So overall that surface training stuff does do something. That's what I gathered from following that thread I mentioned. The only downside of the mouse seems to be the very high weight. It's over 120g measured without cable. The mice I typically use are 70g (Abyssus for example). Here are pictures of the insides: http://www.overclock.net/t/1479217/new-logitech-g502-proteus-core/500#post_22103643 It's pretty ridiculous... a billion screws everywhere and three different PCBs and the mousewheel is a massive piece of metal. The price is of course also ridiculous but at least the insides look like it's actually three times the parts of a normal mouse in there. I don't think I will be able to use it comfortably, but I'm very tempted to buy it. I'm already wondering what I could possibly do with all those buttons. I can't really find anything that feels vaguely useful compared to simply using the keyboard. The weird shape might actually be pretty good. Its size in the pictures seems more like an optical illusion and it might actually not feel large when gripped. It's already on amazon.de but I don't think I should buy this sort of mouse online... really have to be able to look at it in person and hold it a little. | ||
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semantics
10040 Posts
On April 19 2014 22:36 Ropid wrote: A whole bunch of people already bought the G502 and talk about it in a discussion thread on overclock.net. "Sensor adapts to your mousepad" stuff makes it so the LOD gets reduced to something very low. If you then try to use it on a different mousepad, it can have tracking problems. So overall that surface training stuff does do something. That's what I gathered from following that thread I mentioned. The only downside of the mouse seems to be the very high weight. It's over 120g measured without cable. The mice I typically use are 70g (Abyssus for example). Here are pictures of the insides: http://www.overclock.net/t/1479217/new-logitech-g502-proteus-core/500#post_22103643 It's pretty ridiculous... a billion screws everywhere and three different PCBs and the mousewheel is a massive piece of metal. The price is of course also ridiculous but at least the insides look like it's actually three times the parts of a normal mouse in there. I don't think I will be able to use it comfortably, but I'm very tempted to buy it. I'm already wondering what I could possibly do with all those buttons. I can't really find anything that feels vaguely useful compared to simply using the keyboard. The weird shape might actually be pretty good. Its size in the pictures seems more like an optical illusion and it might actually not feel large when gripped. It's already on amazon.de but I don't think I should buy this sort of mouse online... really have to be able to look at it in person and hold it a little. Well considering the abyssus has no side buttons you can go back and forward in menus without having to use keyboard shortcuts or set up mouse gestures. :D. Most people who don't like the scroll wheel is because it's profile is too high, the middle click is hard and it "rattles" the rattling is because ionno why but logitech keeps on insisting on putting the left and right tilt buttons for the infinite scroll mouse wheels and those buttons very light to press so you get a little play in the wheel. Extra mouse buttons outside of just left and right buttons only has benefits if you map the buttons for games. Else there is little point to even having a scroll wheel for pure gaming mice. Else those buttons just tend to be general purpose helpful. One example is to map the sniper button to change the mapping of the mouse so you can left click copy, right click paste. Some people do things with logitech's software such as programming macros such as the old dolphin dive macro used in BF2. Going from 70g to 120g would probably feel really weird for awhile. I doubt you can tell if you can get used to it without having it for a couple days. | ||
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wptlzkwjd
Canada1240 Posts
On April 19 2014 21:28 Nimix wrote: Yeah I guess, the "sensor adapts to your mousepad" thing seems fishy as hell, shame cause the shape looked nice. This is actually a feature I am interested in the G502 since the MiCO I currently use will ONLY respond on cloth mousepads. It does not work on wood (dark or light) or hard mouse mats (eg. the ones that come free in Blizzard Collector's Edition games). It's kind of lame if you have to use it outside the house because if you forget the mousepad, you're pretty much screwed regardless if you remembered to bring the actual mouse. The weight difference between the G502 and the MiCO is definitely pretty big and the 12k DPI sensor seems more of a gimmick to me (I'd just stick to 400 regardless). I've tried to the G500S and the free-scroll wheel is pretty fun to use and sometimes even useful. I couldn't see any downside to this since you can just switch it back to normal. | ||
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Nimix
France1809 Posts
Anyway the people in the thread Ropid linked seem very pleased by the mouse, except the ones complaining about its weight | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20326 Posts
On April 20 2014 08:55 Nimix wrote: Yeah, it's interesting on paper, I was afraid it would affect the performance and tracking as from what I know to increase sensor's performance in a domain you have to decrease it in another (at least that's what a logitech tech guy was saying in a video I watched, but it was a old one and may not apply to their new one). Anyway the people in the thread Ropid linked seem very pleased by the mouse, except the ones complaining about its weight If somebody is happy with a mouse, it's usually a red flag as all of them have something wrong with them :D | ||
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