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Cheval
9 Posts
On April 13 2014 04:47 SonGoku wrote: I´m expecting my G9x to arrive on monday, so I could tell you my experience with it then if you like to Sure, that'll be great! Shoot me a PM or just reply here, whichever is more convenient for you. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20345 Posts
On April 13 2014 14:47 Cheval wrote: Hm, so it means that lets say I move the mouse at 20m/s, it will register at 21m/s? What about clicking small objects(marines, WM etc)? Thank you  Some of the better sensors, if you move mouse distance that should move it 100 pixels, will move like 99-101 pixels with these ones, it might be 97, or 106 or so. It depends how fast you move it, and behaves differently based on that factor (which a lot of people want to avoid) | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20345 Posts
On April 13 2014 15:17 Cyro wrote: Some of the better sensors, if you move mouse distance that should move it 100 pixels, will move like 99-101 pixels with these ones, it might be 97, or 106 or so. It depends how fast you move it, and behaves differently based on that factor (which a lot of people want to avoid) I have a mouse that has positive acceleration (not 9500/9800 sensor, though) and i can't play osu at all with it, it cost like 5x as much as my new Xornet (which works great, because the sensor is close to 1:1 and has enough max control speed for playing osu) + Show Spoiler + This was a science experiment, don't use 500dpi on 1920x1080  stick to ~1-3 inches to cross screen on X axis (640-1920dpi as an example for 1920 width screen) Mouse isn't the most important factor for sc2 performance, as in like actually winning games. If you're looking though to have the best performance possible in terms of muscle memory, ease and comfort of snapping to and boxing small units etc, you'd heavily bias away from those mice which are inconsistent depending on movement speed edit: Oops, don't know how i made that into 2 posts | ||
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Ropid
Germany3557 Posts
On April 13 2014 15:17 Cyro wrote: Some of the better sensors, if you move mouse distance that should move it 100 pixels, will move like 99-101 pixels with these ones, it might be 97, or 106 or so. It depends how fast you move it, and behaves differently based on that factor (which a lot of people want to avoid) What might be unclear about this explanation is that it's not some sort of acceleration that feels natural. If it would be something like what I've drawn in the following picture, the brain would perhaps learn how it works and might be able to compensate: http://i.imgur.com/H48vz4E.png Instead, it looks like this: http://i.imgur.com/FE3SHdK.png The sensor is sometimes adding something extra to the recorded movement and it's sometimes subtracting something. What it does exactly is somewhat random. I don't think that error the sensor introduces is large enough to matter for SC2. It's probably still small enough so that the mouse is still fine for being able to click on single units. But some people say they feel there's something wrong going on. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20345 Posts
It's probably still small enough so that the mouse is still fine for being able to click on single units. clicking a sentry from 1/4 to 1/2 the screen away in 1 movement is the kind of thing that's completely messed up, though | ||
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Cheval
9 Posts
On April 13 2014 15:20 Cyro wrote: I have a mouse that has positive acceleration (not 9500/9800 sensor, though) and i can't play osu at all with it, it cost like 5x as much as my new Xornet (which works great, because the sensor is close to 1:1 and has enough max control speed for playing osu) + Show Spoiler + https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gleyeG5VE-U This was a science experiment, don't use 500dpi on 1920x1080 stick to ~1-3 inches to cross screen on X axis (640-1920dpi as an example for 1920 width screen) Mouse isn't the most important factor for sc2 performance, as in like actually winning games. If you're looking though to have the best performance possible in terms of muscle memory, ease and comfort of snapping to and boxing small units etc, you'd heavily bias away from those mice which are inconsistent depending on movement speed edit: Oops, don't know how i made that into 2 posts Ah well, I guess the kana is the way to go then, will probably wait for songoku to get back to me before I make up my mind though. Thanks for all the advice! | ||
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Cheval
9 Posts
On April 13 2014 15:51 Ropid wrote: What might be unclear about this explanation is that it's not some sort of acceleration that feels natural. If it would be something like what I've drawn in the following picture, the brain would perhaps learn how it works and might be able to compensate: http://i.imgur.com/H48vz4E.png Instead, it looks like this: http://i.imgur.com/FE3SHdK.png The sensor is sometimes adding something extra to the recorded movement and it's sometimes subtracting something. What it does exactly is somewhat random. I don't think that error the sensor introduces is large enough to matter for SC2. It's probably still small enough so that the mouse is still fine for being able to click on single units. But some people say they feel there's something wrong going on. That makes things much more clearer now. It seems like it won't be something I'll be able to adjust to then :/ Still pretty surprised despite all the negativity on the sensor, its pretty much the "go-to" mice for most pros. Thank you for the graphs and explanations, really appreciate it :D | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20345 Posts
Still pretty surprised despite all the negativity on the sensor, its pretty much the "go-to" mice for most pros. TBH i don't think most of them are aware of their performance being negatively affected by it, and comfort is a big thing. I just don't like it because you can get comfort without sacrificing sensor consistency | ||
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semantics
10040 Posts
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Cyro
United Kingdom20345 Posts
On April 14 2014 03:38 semantics wrote: G9 and G9x are pretty much the only mice that are low profile and short length that makes it suitable for fingertip only movements. So you can't exactly have "comfort" you speak of with other mice. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/fykEXLIl.jpg) - ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/bG7rKTcl.jpg) in europe, xornet sensor is superior to g9x and it costs 20 euros in US, spawn is even better and it's $19.99 after rebate (~$35-40 without) It looks fatter than it is, because of the third-finger thing. ~80g weight I think xornet/spawn shell is more comfortable, but even for those who think it is less, there is no arguing against 1:1 sensor | ||
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TwilightRain
Germany351 Posts
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semantics
10040 Posts
In reality there is no perfect senor mouse for higher dpi fingertip users and even pros for sc2 don't use pure fingertips only, but it's what comfortable for some people. Even the spawn will flake out above 1800dpi let alone letting it pool at 500 or 1000Hz. It makes the perfect FPS mouse but not a mouse for everyone. FPS players love the lower DPI large arm movements as precision is favored over speed. RTS higher dpi with quicker shallow movements can be favored as you can select groups quicker and move across the screen quicker in general which helps with macro styles of play. Let alone general use not having to move your arm much is a boon esp when working with limited desk space and higher resolutions. | ||
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Thalandros
Netherlands1151 Posts
So I can get a Deathadder '13 for €42,- and a G400s for €45,-. Now I need some final verdicts from people. I've not heard too much about logitech except that they're just unbreakable. Does any of you have any preferences and why? Thanks in advance! :D | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20345 Posts
Even the spawn will flake out above 1800dpi Who's using over 1800dpi? That's a really high sens for 2d That 3rd finger thing gets in the way of the pinky gripping that is used in fingertips only. It really doesn't, as pinky grip is further back, it's way way more comfortable than my DA was Other arguments are solid i guess, but i've never used a g9x to compare and i don't plan to - too much of a sacrifice on sensor performance for me As for FPS, well, xornet and g9x not really usable - i hear the spawn is pretty good, maybe not perfect, but several of the FPS players that i respect and that value sensor performance a lot are using the Avior 7000 now | ||
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semantics
10040 Posts
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Cyro
United Kingdom20345 Posts
People that use large monitors and fingertips only love high DPI/CPI how else are you going to move pointer across the whole screen without having to lift up your wrist. If you have your wrist literally resting on the mousepad, you pretty much have to use it to pivot etc. That's bad for wrist health, especially if you have to tense them to maintain control of the higher sensitivity Although plenty of people who've used my computer while over at my place have found my set up pretty unusable having a keyboard without and letters and a mouse set to absurdly high sensitivity on a 4k monitor just confounds people. Oh you have blank keyboard too? :D As for sens, i always judge based on distance, not really flat DPI values. Distance is what matters for 2d, though i think stuff behaves the same on both resolutions for FPS engines.. at least some of them (not super sure of specifics, but 1800 dpi won't give you any big issues) 1000dpi on 1920x1080 is equivalent to 2000dpi on 3840x2160. On such a high resolution, i'd say an appropriate sens range to be ~1.2k to ~4k dpi 4k is not exactly mainstream yet and few mice enthusiasts use them over say 1080p120, so forgive me for not considering it much  | ||
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semantics
10040 Posts
Logitechs new G502 is the shape is usable might be the mouse for me considering the sensor so far is considered great at higher dpi. The harsh reality is that the G9x shape is so perfect for me that i rather have inaccuracies than be uncomfortable trying to move a larger mouse with my fingertips. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20345 Posts
I don't rest on my wrist i actually use the bottom of my palm on top of rolled up cloth. high sens user | ||
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Ropid
Germany3557 Posts
On April 14 2014 05:28 semantics wrote: I don't rest on my wrist i actually use the bottom of my palm on top of rolled up cloth. Which helps distribute weight better on my palm and brings my hand above the mouse so my hand can be straight while holding the mouse. No way in hell am i resting my wrist or palm on top of the hard glass icemat i use for a mousepad. Logitechs new G502 is the shape is usable might be the mouse for me considering the sensor so far is considered great at higher dpi. The harsh reality is that the G9x shape is so perfect for me that i rather have inaccuracies than be uncomfortable trying to move a larger mouse with my fingertips. Take a look at the two comparison pictures this guy here posted about G9x and Corsair M45: http://www.overclock.net/t/1479217/new-logitech-g502-proteus-core/50#post_22075148 The mouse uses the rather new 3310 sensor that's probably strongly related to the sensor in the new G502 (part numbers are PMW3310 vs. PMW3366). | ||
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Thalandros
Netherlands1151 Posts
DeathAdder '13 or Logitech G400s. I can get them a bit cheaper now so I'm considering buying a new mouse. I play at about 1100 DPI on Starcraft II most of the time. | ||
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