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On April 08 2014 04:09 Thalandros wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2014 01:23 theBALLS wrote:On April 07 2014 05:14 Vradar wrote:
1. What's your grip style?
palm/claw
2. What's your sensitivity?
medium/high
3. What's your maximum budget?
£50
4. Do you want additional buttons?
2 buttons on thumb side of mouse
5. What games do you play?
LoL/Dota/sc2/Diablo3/BF4/WoW
6. Do you mind angle snapping?
Don't want
7. Other relevant information:
Looking for a new mouse now that my g9x is starting to break and cant buy another one, would also prefer a wired mouse. Well I just got myself a Deathadder 2013 (got sick of my Sensei) and its wonderful. It's great for medium-large sized hands (Mine is 19cm from fingertip to wrist) and its ergonomics is a breath of fresh air from my previous ambidextrous mouse (sensei). Besides, its optical sensor is unrivalled (no acceleration, angle snapping) and its relatively inexpensive. My only gripe is the synapse software. Steelseries' software was much more intuitive. I'm having problems with synapse game profiles. I heard of a lot of smoothing though? I currently use a Sensei and might look at switching soon as I've stated earlier in this thread, just looking between a SS Rival, DA 13, and Logitech 400s.
Go with the DA2013 - you will not regret it, promised! (I really think, it´s the one good product, razer ever made.)
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United Kingdom20343 Posts
On April 08 2014 04:09 Thalandros wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2014 01:23 theBALLS wrote:On April 07 2014 05:14 Vradar wrote:
1. What's your grip style?
palm/claw
2. What's your sensitivity?
medium/high
3. What's your maximum budget?
£50
4. Do you want additional buttons?
2 buttons on thumb side of mouse
5. What games do you play?
LoL/Dota/sc2/Diablo3/BF4/WoW
6. Do you mind angle snapping?
Don't want
7. Other relevant information:
Looking for a new mouse now that my g9x is starting to break and cant buy another one, would also prefer a wired mouse. Well I just got myself a Deathadder 2013 (got sick of my Sensei) and its wonderful. It's great for medium-large sized hands (Mine is 19cm from fingertip to wrist) and its ergonomics is a breath of fresh air from my previous ambidextrous mouse (sensei). Besides, its optical sensor is unrivalled (no acceleration, angle snapping) and its relatively inexpensive. My only gripe is the synapse software. Steelseries' software was much more intuitive. I'm having problems with synapse game profiles. I heard of a lot of smoothing though? I currently use a Sensei and might look at switching soon as I've stated earlier in this thread, just looking between a SS Rival, DA 13, and Logitech 400s.
Rival and DA 2013 have same sensor, no?
DA grip heavily favors Palm and is difficult to control due to the size, curve of the back and such with fingertip. Some variations of claw can apparently work, but i never had any kind of success with them
Rival is longer then DA, i get the impression that it's palm-focused too
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I read a review about Rival and it seems that the shape is pretty odd, bigger than the deathadder and with odd angles, so if you consider buying one you'd be better off trying it for yourself first. The sensor is a 3310 I think so it should be good!
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I am currently looking for a new mouse and done a lot of reaserches and I picked out the Aybssus or the G9x. Wich one would you prefer and why?
1. What's your grip style?
Fingertip
2. What's your sensitivity?
Right now: Roccat Kone Pure 2800DPI and -1 Sensivity (Windows settings: 6/11)
3. What's your maximum budget?
around 100€ max
4. Do you want additional buttons?
1-2 side buttons are nice, would ignore that in order to a just "better and more accurate" mouse
5. What games do you play?
sc2 only
6. Do you mind angle snapping?
dont really have experience with it, is it recommended in sc2?
7. Other relevant information:
I like girls
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Yeah, apparently the Rival had perfect 1:1 precision, which is why I'm still keeping it on my list. I've been looking forward to the DA a lot however, but I'm a big claw-grip guy (sometimes even leaning towards fingertip). I've only heard good things about Logitech but I've never been a big fan of them, although the G400s looks very attractive.
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United Kingdom20343 Posts
Yeah, apparently the Rival had perfect 1:1 precision, which is why I'm still keeping it on my list.
so.. everything with 3090/3310 sensor? 
They're not >absolutely< perfect, but very close. More more so than some others
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I am currently looking for a new mouse and done a lot of reaserches and I picked out the Aybssus or the G9x. Wich one would you prefer and why?
Abyssus uses an older sensor that only has native 1800dpi, it's relatively cheap/easy to break, it's a bit funny with surfaces and some of them jittered in the past, not sure if that is still an issue
g9x is no longer sold? at least in some places, and has very imprecise sensor in that you can make the same movement 5 times at different speeds and the cursor will end up at a different position (by a margin of as much as 5-7%)
If you're looking for these types of grips, the cm storm spawn or xornet (same shell worse sensor) may appeal to you. There's a bit of a lack of choice for good, smallish fingertip mice
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hmmm the G9x was my favorite :/ amazon still sells it?
If the sensor is that imprecise why do so many korean pro´s use it? I wont be satisfied with a sensor that imprecise, wich is the most important thing about a mouse at least for me?!
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United Kingdom20343 Posts
If the sensor is that imprecise why do so many korean pro´s use it? I wont be satisfied with a sensor that imprecise, wich is the most important thing about a mouse at least for me?!
A lot of them liked the grip and that is arguably more important than increased precision. A lot are not so good to the point of being heavily impaired by it, and many more are just uneducated on lots of points like this - it's their job to win games, not to have hardware knowledge
It's been proven that you can win games just fine at pro level with such a mouse, but if you're looking to maximize your skills in that area with some harsh testing then you'll probably find it notably inferior. It's one of the bigger flaws in modern "gaming" mice.
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On April 09 2014 00:09 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote +If the sensor is that imprecise why do so many korean pro´s use it? I wont be satisfied with a sensor that imprecise, wich is the most important thing about a mouse at least for me?! A lot of them liked the grip and that is arguably more important than increased precision. A lot are not so good to the point of being heavily impaired by it, and many more are just uneducated on lots of points like this - it's their job to win games, not to have hardware knowledge It's been proven that you can win games just fine at pro level with such a mouse, but if you're looking to maximize your skills in that area with some harsh testing then you'll probably find it notably inferior. It's one of the bigger flaws in modern "gaming" mice.
Grip is far more important, mice are far to finicky to have perfect tracking in typical cases. You have to have the mouse at just the right setting on the right kind of surface, most would rather take the small hit to precision that allows them to use a mouse that is easy to hold and use a dpi they feel comfortable with.
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United Kingdom20343 Posts
On April 09 2014 00:24 semantics wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2014 00:09 Cyro wrote:If the sensor is that imprecise why do so many korean pro´s use it? I wont be satisfied with a sensor that imprecise, wich is the most important thing about a mouse at least for me?! A lot of them liked the grip and that is arguably more important than increased precision. A lot are not so good to the point of being heavily impaired by it, and many more are just uneducated on lots of points like this - it's their job to win games, not to have hardware knowledge It's been proven that you can win games just fine at pro level with such a mouse, but if you're looking to maximize your skills in that area with some harsh testing then you'll probably find it notably inferior. It's one of the bigger flaws in modern "gaming" mice. Grip is far more important, mice are far to finicky to have perfect tracking in typical cases. You have to have the mouse at just the right setting on the right kind of surface, most would rather take the small hit to precision that allows them to use a mouse that is easy to hold and use a dpi they feel comfortable with.
Generally, all you have to do is have an acceptable surface, basically every mouse on the market works on dark cloth or plastic, and then set up settings correctly for 1 pixel movement per count - moving 1000 pixels (halfway across screen) and missing a target by ~20-35 pixels in either direction is not a small loss of precision, too
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On April 09 2014 00:37 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2014 00:24 semantics wrote:On April 09 2014 00:09 Cyro wrote:If the sensor is that imprecise why do so many korean pro´s use it? I wont be satisfied with a sensor that imprecise, wich is the most important thing about a mouse at least for me?! A lot of them liked the grip and that is arguably more important than increased precision. A lot are not so good to the point of being heavily impaired by it, and many more are just uneducated on lots of points like this - it's their job to win games, not to have hardware knowledge It's been proven that you can win games just fine at pro level with such a mouse, but if you're looking to maximize your skills in that area with some harsh testing then you'll probably find it notably inferior. It's one of the bigger flaws in modern "gaming" mice. Grip is far more important, mice are far to finicky to have perfect tracking in typical cases. You have to have the mouse at just the right setting on the right kind of surface, most would rather take the small hit to precision that allows them to use a mouse that is easy to hold and use a dpi they feel comfortable with. Generally, all you have to do is have an acceptable surface, basically every mouse on the market works on dark cloth or plastic, and then set up settings correctly for 1 pixel movement per count - moving 1000 pixels (halfway across screen) and missing a target by ~20-35 pixels in either direction is not a small loss of precision, too
Surface largely depends on if it's optical or laser, laser mice tend to be less surface sensitive, optical mice really do need a textured opaque surface that doesn't reflect much light. Laser mice will work nearly as well on any surface even glass assuming it's not clear glass or a mirror. You also seem to be mistaken that dark surfaces track better, white surfaces are ideal for both laser and optical mice. Only reason why white isn't used more in mouse pads is it's hard to make white plastics/rubbers that aren't reflective, reflectivity is far more damaging to sensor reliability than the light lost into the mousepad when it's made black.
20-35 pixels is about the size of cursor it's a small loss to be able to play on a DPI that you like and on a mouse that doesn't break your hand holding. You'd have problems if all you want to do is perfect 360s but if that's what you want then you've made the choice to sacrifice everything else to do it. I see this the same as people who refused to move on from CRT to avoid LCD postprocessing and gain a few extra ms. Or still use keyboards on the old 6-din so that the keyboard inputs are done at once instead of pooled into the usb controller.
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On April 08 2014 06:01 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2014 04:09 Thalandros wrote:On April 08 2014 01:23 theBALLS wrote:On April 07 2014 05:14 Vradar wrote:
1. What's your grip style?
palm/claw
2. What's your sensitivity?
medium/high
3. What's your maximum budget?
£50
4. Do you want additional buttons?
2 buttons on thumb side of mouse
5. What games do you play?
LoL/Dota/sc2/Diablo3/BF4/WoW
6. Do you mind angle snapping?
Don't want
7. Other relevant information:
Looking for a new mouse now that my g9x is starting to break and cant buy another one, would also prefer a wired mouse. Well I just got myself a Deathadder 2013 (got sick of my Sensei) and its wonderful. It's great for medium-large sized hands (Mine is 19cm from fingertip to wrist) and its ergonomics is a breath of fresh air from my previous ambidextrous mouse (sensei). Besides, its optical sensor is unrivalled (no acceleration, angle snapping) and its relatively inexpensive. My only gripe is the synapse software. Steelseries' software was much more intuitive. I'm having problems with synapse game profiles. I heard of a lot of smoothing though? I currently use a Sensei and might look at switching soon as I've stated earlier in this thread, just looking between a SS Rival, DA 13, and Logitech 400s. Rival and DA 2013 have same sensor, no? DA grip heavily favors Palm and is difficult to control due to the size, curve of the back and such with fingertip. Some variations of claw can apparently work, but i never had any kind of success with them Rival is longer then DA, i get the impression that it's palm-focused too
Well I had the opportunity to test out both the DA and the Rival before finally settling on the DA.
In addition, this very excellent shop carried a shit tonne of test mice. I tested out the G400s, all the roccat mice, Kana V2, etc. DA came out on top in terms of comfort. Easily.
The DA and the Rival are the same price, but the DA was far more comfortable for me especially as a palm-claw gamer.
My hand is 20cm long and the Rival was far too large for me. It has a really prominent hump that makes it good if you're a palm gamer (I guess).
The sensor on the DA2013 is the best on the market (some avago model) which has no acceleration. Smoothing has not been noticeable, I doubt it exists on this mouse.
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United Kingdom20343 Posts
You also seem to be mistaken that dark surfaces track better, white surfaces are ideal for both laser and optical mice
I just mean i know very few optical mice that have issues on flat black cloth. There are several that have tracking issues on blue or other colors
20-35 pixels is about the size of cursor it's a small loss
It's bigger than the width of a marine - missing a target by 30 pixels in either direction due to uncertainty with mouse sensor is terrifying
I see this the same as people who refused to move on from CRT to avoid LCD postprocessing and gain a few extra ms.
Well, the main reason to use a CRT over an LCD is the massively reduced motion blur. CRT's have typically up to ~3ms of motion blur from eye tracking, while even good LCD's, with standard backlights, have close to 20ms on 60hz.
The best LCD's w/ strobe backlights are only now back to crt levels of motion blur instead of literally 10-15x higher, but they cost 300 euros for 1080p so they're not nearly as accessible as CRT's.
http://www.testufo.com/#test=photo&photo=toronto-map.png&pps=240&pursuit=0&height=0
Go to this link, experiment with text speeds, put it up to ~1080, 1440, 1920px per second. Can you still read the text? People on CRT monitors or strobe backlight LCD's (or some other low persistence technology) can - it's completely unreadable on the vast majority of LCD's, though.
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I think for the things mentioned being possible, it can't use any current sensor and just a changed software. The current sensors are some sort of cameras and take crappy pictures good enough for 400 dpi or something, and the controller then interpolates the errors away over time in software for higher DPI, introducing that latency and "smoothing" that some people cry about. If they use similar sensors, they would at least need to be able to take a lot more of those 400 dpi pictures and process those faster so that what they're saying isn't a lie.
If they use something that's not involving optical sensors and processing of its pictures, the only other technology I know about is that sensor from Philips that measures Doppler effect of a laser. That sensor can actually do whatever DPI you want by itself so they might use that? The Philips sensor had serious problems on surfaces it didn't like and also when lifting the mouse upwards. They might have fixed those issues somehow.
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So I guess that's a mouse to keep an eye on, but it's gonna need to make some big changes for it to be as good as it sounds. Interesting.
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United Kingdom20343 Posts
I don't understand the chasing higher DPI's, all of the best mouse players that i know (all of them) use the equivelant of ~400-1000dpi on 1920x1080, 1:1
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/j6QvWMA.jpg)
Yay usable grip! Hopefully i don't hit any fatal snags with this mouse for 2d usage (DA is still good for FPS cameras, different grip style)
paint on no software 500dpi:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/mx9FN7X.png)
^click on it, it's scaled
What firmware should i be using for qck+? I like higher LOD
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This is the Xornet, right? I don't remember what firmwares I tried. There were like four different ones or smth.
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United Kingdom20343 Posts
On April 10 2014 00:57 Ropid wrote:This is the Xornet, right? I don't remember what firmwares I tried. There were like four different ones or smth.
Yea, it is
Streaming now as i adjust to it and 810 to 500dpi change
+ Show Spoiler +www.twitch.tv/cyrostarcraft
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I looked around in the folders where I collect drivers for my stuff. I found a folder with CM Storm Xornet firmwares. I have 10 (ten!) different firmwares for this mouse. They are named V50, V51, V52, V53, V55 and 70, 71, 72, 73, 75. Most of those are packed up in their zip files, but I have two extracted. I assume when I played with this mouse, I must have decided on one of those two. These are: Xornet_72 and Xornet_75. I have no idea why I chose those two and which one I liked better.
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EPT
