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On September 17 2011 07:02 JingleHell wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2011 06:59 Dannnnn_The_Man wrote:On September 17 2011 06:50 JingleHell wrote:On September 17 2011 06:47 Dannnnn_The_Man wrote:On September 17 2011 06:41 JingleHell wrote:@5thdiv Liquid cooling doesn't really help much with dust buildup unless you have an external radiator. Since I assume you mean a closed loop internal type CPU cooler, you'll still need some air intake for optimal performance. (By the way, optimal for those is pretty bad, particularly price/performance vs air coolers.) What games besides SC2 do you want to play, kind of relevant for the GPUs. On September 17 2011 06:38 Dannnnn_The_Man wrote:On September 16 2011 11:56 JingleHell wrote:
To be fair, it's not as bad as it used to be, but it's still a false savings, heat and power inefficient, and a lot more work.
Plus it's at it's worst with new releases, which is usually when you want the most GPU performance, just to see what it looks like.
There's times it's efficient, but you should definitely make sure you're very informed first. I didnt really intend on using SLI with another gtx 560 iw as just wondering So it seems like you and skyr don't recommend me SLI skyR is strongly against it unless you're using flagship cards for Nvidia 3dsurround, I believe. And even there, he'd probably suggest AMD eyefinity, for legitimate reasons. I personally have an SLI setup, so to say I'm against it comes off wrong. In actual fact, I'm all for it; IF you're properly informed and know why you're doing it and what you're getting into. This just happens to actually be the case in about -37% of people asking for advice here. where lies the difficulty in a SLI setup? there seems to be alot of emphasis on doing it right. Well, ignoring the pile of extra cash you spend, you have to worry about temps more than a single card, you won't get anywhere near full scaling on new releases, scaling is largely dependent on drivers and game, and you'll end up having to set up custom SLI profiles any time you buy a new game. Bit of tweaking and tinkering. It's a combination of more time intensive, less efficient, louder, hotter, and costing more than it looks like that makes it less than optimal for most people. Not so much pure difficulty. Setting it up physically is the easiest part. I see, just out of curiosity is crossfiring better that SLI? Depends on individual driver releases, what game you're talking about, whether you're talking cards that compete on power vs cards at similar pricepoints, and whether you want to game across multiple monitors. Oh, and what specific cards it comes down to as well.
Ok, i was just wondering if it was much different. Thank you for informing more on SLI and crossfiring.
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+ Show Spoiler +On September 17 2011 06:41 JingleHell wrote:@5thdiv Liquid cooling doesn't really help much with dust buildup unless you have an external radiator. Since I assume you mean a closed loop internal type CPU cooler, you'll still need some air intake for optimal performance. (By the way, optimal for those is pretty bad, particularly price/performance vs air coolers.) What games besides SC2 do you want to play, kind of relevant for the GPUs. Show nested quote +On September 17 2011 06:38 Dannnnn_The_Man wrote:On September 16 2011 11:56 JingleHell wrote:
To be fair, it's not as bad as it used to be, but it's still a false savings, heat and power inefficient, and a lot more work.
Plus it's at it's worst with new releases, which is usually when you want the most GPU performance, just to see what it looks like.
There's times it's efficient, but you should definitely make sure you're very informed first. I didnt really intend on using SLI with another gtx 560 iw as just wondering So it seems like you and skyr don't recommend me SLI skyR is strongly against it unless you're using flagship cards for Nvidia 3dsurround, I believe. And even there, he'd probably suggest AMD eyefinity, for legitimate reasons. I personally have an SLI setup, so to say I'm against it comes off wrong. In actual fact, I'm all for it; IF you're properly informed and know why you're doing it and what you're getting into. This just happens to actually be the case in about -37% of people asking for advice here.
I plan on running D3 as well as "the secret world" beta when its released as I should be garenteed a slot
I may end up with battlefeild 3 depends on how well made the frostbite2 engine is and the weapon, balancing
I have previously sli bridged 2 gtx 260 cards bak in my cod 4 semi pro scrimming I found that having the extra card to take the physx load off, the primary gpu reduced overall operating temps by a few degrees across both cards. My previous monitoring of my gpu usage showed that it was running at 99% constantly and, I had to modify the variable speed fan to lock open on, 10k, rpm im hoping to get a card where these internal fan changes wont be needed. Case wise I have ThermalTake armorFX, I have the fan space to mount an internal liquid cooling system ( just) but from what you we re saying its not really needed. My reasoning for it is, the australian climate 35 degrees C with a 70% humidity and summer has a habit of killing pc's round here
Would a 120gig SSD be the pro-choice for casting, OS and sc2
Would I be better moving from vista to 7?
All these questions... I have so. Many as the dropkicks around here are about as useful as tits on a bull with regard to feasible gaming SETUPS and when I mention e-sports and casting they go all slack-jawed and vacant like I just hit em over the head with a brick
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On September 17 2011 07:21 5thdiv_gaming wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 17 2011 06:41 JingleHell wrote:@5thdiv Liquid cooling doesn't really help much with dust buildup unless you have an external radiator. Since I assume you mean a closed loop internal type CPU cooler, you'll still need some air intake for optimal performance. (By the way, optimal for those is pretty bad, particularly price/performance vs air coolers.) What games besides SC2 do you want to play, kind of relevant for the GPUs. Show nested quote +On September 17 2011 06:38 Dannnnn_The_Man wrote:On September 16 2011 11:56 JingleHell wrote:
To be fair, it's not as bad as it used to be, but it's still a false savings, heat and power inefficient, and a lot more work.
Plus it's at it's worst with new releases, which is usually when you want the most GPU performance, just to see what it looks like.
There's times it's efficient, but you should definitely make sure you're very informed first. I didnt really intend on using SLI with another gtx 560 iw as just wondering So it seems like you and skyr don't recommend me SLI skyR is strongly against it unless you're using flagship cards for Nvidia 3dsurround, I believe. And even there, he'd probably suggest AMD eyefinity, for legitimate reasons. I personally have an SLI setup, so to say I'm against it comes off wrong. In actual fact, I'm all for it; IF you're properly informed and know why you're doing it and what you're getting into. This just happens to actually be the case in about -37% of people asking for advice here. I plan on running D3 as well as "the secret world" beta when its released as I should be garenteed a slot I may end up with battlefeild 3 depends on how well made the frostbite2 engine is and the weapon, balancing I have previously sli bridged 2 gtx 260 cards bak in my cod 4 semi pro scrimming I found that having the extra card to take the physx load off, the primary gpu reduced overall operating temps by a few degrees across both cards. My previous monitoring of my gpu usage showed that it was running at 99% constantly and, I had to modify the variable speed fan to lock open on, 10k, rpm im hoping to get a card where these internal fan changes wont be needed. Case wise I have ThermalTake armorFX, I have the fan space to mount an internal liquid cooling system ( just) but from what you we re saying its not really needed. My reasoning for it is, the australian climate 35 degrees C with a 70% humidity and summer has a habit of killing pc's round here Would a 120gig SSD be the pro-choice for casting, OS and sc2 Would I be better moving from vista to 7? All these questions... I have so. Many as the dropkicks around here are about as useful as tits on a bull with regard to feasible gaming SETUPS and when I mention e-sports and casting they go all slack-jawed and vacant like I just hit em over the head with a brick
I don't know if this will help at all but i have windows 7 LoL and SC2 on my 60 gig harddrive with 10gigs left.
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@5thdiv
Nobody uses PhysX these days. Something to do with wanting to sell to everyone, instead of just Nvidia users.
As for temps, new cards are entirely less toasty than the older generations you're used to. Oh, and I live in Texas, and summer is just ending. Look it up, worst drought since the '50s, and something like half the acreage burned in the country since last November were in this state. If I had my air conditioning set below 81-82F, it ran straight through for 4 hours a day.
Liquid cooling isn't needed with good airflow, and plumbing is just a severe risk to your PC, if it fails, your CPU will overheat instantly. Air coolers are safer in that regard. Oh, and my PC is last generation, heavily OCed, SLI. This generation is more efficient and cooler.
An SSD has no real benefit to casting, or to multiplayer games.
Win 7 is improved over Vista, yes. Faster for nearly everything.
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Unfortuneatly I dont have access to aircon (renting) but your comments about the new cards thermal profiling and the improvements made I take to heart. With regard to SSD's would not the increase in random r/w acess speeds allow for marked improvement to the backend of win7 which in turn would have a flow-on effect to system performance under load? Just curious.
Do casting programs use hyper-threading? If so does it justify an i75600? How well are u finding overall performance whilst running a moderate graphics set @1920*1080 and casting over the top, I know fraps is intended to be lightweight but my experience on an e8400@ 3.02 Ghz (dual core) was the opposite it bogged down my system quite badly whilst trying to fraps eve-online
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Fraps isn't multi-threaded from what I understand unless it has changed over the years... it might have had something to do with your HDD and settings rather than your processor.
Are you referring to a Xeon 5600 or a core i7 2600?
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The SSD helps in the way you're talking to the extent that you aren't wasting bandwidth to your HDD that you record to I suppose, but since the majority of software you're running will be in RAM if you have a rational amount, you shouldn't notice much difference. Win7 is nothing like Vista as far as hogging resources and bogging you down and using resources badly.
Last I checked, FRAPS isn't multi-threaded, and doesn't really need to be, it mostly just crushes your HDD. If you're planning to record vods, and stream at the same time, you probably would want HT, though. The performance gains may be minimal, but when you also consider how CPU intense SC2 is, you'll want every little bit of CPU horsepower you can get.
Oh, and for the record, even on the hot days, during the afternoon, I never came anywhere near temps where I needed to downclock either my 460s or my 930. You don't have A/C, but 35C isn't all that much hotter than my ambient temp was at that point, and current generation stuff runs faster and cooler.
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Coolies so thats all the tecnikal questions out the way
Hows this build shaping up so far
Intel core i75600
120gig kingston SSD sata3
N vidia gtx580
12gig of ddr3 1333Mhz ram
Mainboard options?
Secondary 350 gig 10k rpm sata2 HDD (current drive, shame not to waste it  . )
Not certain on the overall costing but in au im looking at 300 for the cpu and 500 for the gpu
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On September 17 2011 09:29 5thdiv_gaming wrote:Coolies so thats all the tecnikal questions out the way Hows this build shaping up so far Intel core i75600 120gig kingston SSD sata3 N vidia gtx580 12gig of ddr3 1333Mhz ram Mainboard options? Secondary 350 gig 10k rpm sata2 HDD (current drive, shame not to waste it . ) Not certain on the overall costing but in au im looking at 300 for the cpu and 500 for the gpu
So are you talking about a Xeon or a core i7... it's a core i7 2600k not a 5600, unless you are talking about an Ivybridge or Haswell maybe?
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On September 17 2011 08:08 5thdiv_gaming wrote:
Unfortuneatly I dont have access to aircon (renting) but your comments about the new cards thermal profiling and the improvements made I take to heart. With regard to SSD's would not the increase in random r/w acess speeds allow for marked improvement to the backend of win7 which in turn would have a flow-on effect to system performance under load? Just curious.
Do casting programs use hyper-threading? If so does it justify an i75600? How well are u finding overall performance whilst running a moderate graphics set @1920*1080 and casting over the top, I know fraps is intended to be lightweight but my experience on an e8400@ 3.02 Ghz (dual core) was the opposite it bogged down my system quite badly whilst trying to fraps eve-online
I don't think faster random access speeds would help much under load, unless you're talking about your drives being loaded, like maybe by FRAPs or virus scanning. Unless the thing you're waiting on is also I/O constrained or otherwise waiting on critical data to be served from disk or to disk, performance of the main task shouldn't be effected too much. The CPU is going to move on and do something else in the meantime.
Video encoding for streaming can make use of the hyperthreading, but it's not such a big deal that it's probably worth the money, unless you demand your games to be output in 1920x1080. You'll for that, you'll get about as much improvement from overclocking as from getting an i7-2600 over a i5-2500.
If you want to lessen dust, get a case with decent dust filters that are easy to clean and present on every intake position. So no open mesh fan slot on the side panel, for instance. (That's one way dust can easily get into the graphics card.) Maybe get a case that's not huge and can fit on the desk?
As an idea...
Core i5-2500k - $219
http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=16531
Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus (for overclocking, keeping temps lower) - $33
www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=12544
HIS Radeon HD 6950 1GB (probably overkill) - $229 (good price)
www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=18197
AsRock Z68 Pro3-M - $119
www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=17351
G.Skill 2 x 4GB DDR3 RAM - $49
www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=16930
Crucial M4 128GB (or get the 64GB if that would be sufficient) - $239
www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=17685
Samsung Spinpoint F3 1TB (or whatever else) - $54
http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=210_344
Samsung CD / DVD-RW - $22
www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=17348
SATA cable (motherboard comes with 2 I think, where you need 3) - $2.50
http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=18093
Antec High Current Gamer 520W - $79
www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=15135
Silverstone TJ08-E (cheapest case listed satisfying above criteria I think) - $110
www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=15135
There's still room in the budget as $1500 is a bit excessive even with a few luxuries here and there. For the other build, pretty much same thing but i5-2400 instead, no heatsink, and cheaper LGA 1155 motherboard.
If you want to spend the rest of the money, you can get say the i7-2600k and higher-end graphics card. HD 6950 can already handle all current games very well. Above that, you pay a lot more for not that much more performance.
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Awesome, on a side note, is there a noticible size difference in the gtx card sizes as I will have to replace the case if it is (current case is a tT armor FX ) its a beautiful case and I would be loathe to part with it ">.> my problem with sticking the case on my desk is the 32" bravia and 580w surround sound system. I could relegate all the speakers to the ground but the screen is so BIG will have to test it this arvo since the rigs are out of actiom atm anyway. Yes my apologies its the intel quad core i7 2600 not5600 dont know where I got that from. I would prefer to do full 1080p streaming as my natural resolution matches the frame size and I hate watching grainy 720p vods at home and im sure im not alone
http://www.atxcases.com/products/uploadedimage/thumb/va8004bws.JPG
My case ( am on my android so forgive me if its just a thumbnail)
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If you're gaming on a 32" TV on a desk, and you like graphics, you may want to step up a little on GPU. I'm doing the same, and you need more anti-aliasing for the graphics to look smooth with that pixel density.
Of course, it will cost a fair bit more to do so, but if you like pretty shiney, (I'm getting the impression you do), it's not a bad idea if affordable.
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Well you can certainly use the old case seeing as you already own it, but as mentioned earlier, liquid cooling won't help the dust situation, unless you invest in something more exotic. Just clean more often and/or put up a bunch of dust filters on any type of intake or open mesh that's not an exhaust. Pantyhose works fine if you want to ghetto-rig it.
i5-2500k can do pretty good 720p. A lot of people are putting up like 1000 kbps terrible quality 720p streams that really should be running at 480p, so I don't think that's a fair indication.
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Also, if you want to avoid dust on the floor (if you have carpet), an excellent way to cut down on it is to cut out a piece of cardboard slightly larger than the base of your PC to set it on. You'd be amazed how much difference just an inch of clearance from the floor can make for keeping dust out.
If you're on a hard surface already, just gluing some cheap case feet on to the bottom can help, if it doesn't already have them. Also, if you have the option of different size fans, larger fans can move more air at lower speeds.
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Thanks heaps ppl when I get home i'll kick the ol' lappy 486 and pull up all those links (gotta love strongbad ) on a slightly different topic but still semi related where does one find replay packs to cast/practice casting with? Also I have heard rumors of a psu by antec (1200w) that requires a 15amp wall socket, can anyone clarify this? If so pc gaming may force the introduction of a lot more 15amp wall sockets cause atm they are mainly used to power ac systems
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1200w is obscenely overkill unless you're in the top 10% of Mods Rigs or [H] posters. I doubt home builders will care about that.
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15A at say 110V rms line voltage (a bit low, 120V is nominal I think) gives you 1650W. I'm not at all familiar with building codes and typical wall socket ratings, but I think many are at 20A. I think some appliances would trip a 15A breaker. Under 15A would be less common I think.
The Antec High Current Pro 1200W can actually output (read: DC, to the components) a few hundred watts above 1200W. Efficiency drops while being overloaded like that, so if efficiency is say 82% at 1400W output, that would take over 1700W from the wall. But there are already 1500W, 1350W, etc. power supplies.
But you won't need that much unless your computer actually takes over 1200W DC though. And that would require like at least 3 GTX 580s + Bloomfield i7, overclocked, while stress testing.
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Well ill definitely blog my construction may even stream it from the lappy for lols just a matter of if and when the boss decides to pay me and a little bit of patience on my part... thats gunna be difficult prepare to be bombarded with my views on anything sc2 related that this phone can handle
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EPT
