EPTComputer Build Resource Thread - Page 571
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When using this resource, please read FragKrag's opening post. The Tech Support forum regulars have helped create countless of desktop systems without any compensation. The least you can do is provide all of the information required for them to help you properly. | ||
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skyR
Canada13817 Posts
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
On September 16 2011 12:36 skyR wrote: 5670. CrossfireX. Tell me why a super cute kitten shouldn't die. Because it's a super cute, cuddly, snuggly, purring little kitten that can go to sleep on my chest, doing the little fluffing up of my chest with it's paws? Or am I destroying my image? | ||
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MisterFred
United States2033 Posts
On September 16 2011 12:37 JingleHell wrote: Because it's a super cute, cuddly, snuggly, purring little kitten that can go to sleep on my chest, doing the little fluffing up of my chest with it's paws? Or am I destroying my image? No, no. Hardened warriors are supposed to have the one hidden soft spot, often for small, furry animals. Proof. Edit: Hmm. Weird. Oh well. Too lazy to actually save the file and upload it to TL. It was Minsc from Baldur's Gate II, a ranger with a pet hamster. (Fantasy setting) | ||
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On September 16 2011 09:37 Shikyo wrote: 5850 actually is better than 6850 but yeah that might work. Still think it's amazing for a prebuilt though. (and then I'd like to say that CX 430 isn't 80+ certified and 8GB is probably not necessary with that setup and I value better GPU over better CPU not to mention 40 euros) EDIT: But certainly you can build a similiar computer for cheaper by going for a i3 2100 for instance but still I think that "effort" should be worth at least something. I thought they the 6850 was essentially the same thing as the 5850 (negligibly inferior) with lower power consumption, runs cooler, etc? Maybe I'm wrong. I rarely follow AMD cards. Even if that's not true (which it very well might not be, I'm not claiming it is), at the very least you'd expect driver support to be better. | ||
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Myrmidon
United States9452 Posts
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Pwnographics
New Zealand1097 Posts
On September 16 2011 15:37 FabledIntegral wrote: I thought they the 6850 was essentially the same thing as the 5850 (negligibly inferior) with lower power consumption, runs cooler, etc? Maybe I'm wrong. I rarely follow AMD cards. Even if that's not true (which it very well might not be, I'm not claiming it is), at the very least you'd expect driver support to be better. No, they changed the numbers. The 6950 is the equivalent newer generation to the 5850. The 6850 is the superior version of the 5750. | ||
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iamke55
United States2806 Posts
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skyR
Canada13817 Posts
On September 16 2011 16:01 Pwnographics wrote: No, they changed the numbers. The 6950 is the equivalent newer generation to the 5850. The 6850 is the superior version of the 5750. Not really... $100 vs $180 is a big difference and the 6850 is in no way considered the successor to the 5750. The 6850 is sort of a new product or replacing the 5830 if you want to put it that way. The 5750 was replaced / rebranded to 6750. On September 16 2011 17:18 iamke55 wrote: When did RAM get so cheap? I built my comp last year and paid $114 for 4GB of G.Skill Ripjaws. Now I look on tech forums and see people recommending 8GB of 1333Mhz DDR3 for $39. It just continuously dropped, it's sort of how it is with memory. Once DDR4 becomes the standard, DDR3 prices will skyrocket back up. | ||
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skyR
Canada13817 Posts
NCIX opening up a warehouse in the states, free shipping on all orders over $50. Sale starts today at 6pm PST -.^ Pricing is on par / less expensive than Newegg, ex. core i5 2500k @ $215. | ||
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Raavi
Denmark156 Posts
In a few weeks from now, im going to be building my first pc  I would like some feedback on the parts ive picked. Info: - Will be used for gaming - I have mouse/keyboard/windows - I will be playing at 1080p @ 120hz with Nvidia 3d vision. - I have never overclocked before, but i plan to get into it and do some 'soft' overclocking - SLI: not for now, but i would like to have the option. Parts: CPU - Intel core i5-2500k MOBO - ASUS Z68-V Pro GFX - MSI 580GTX Lightning RAM - Kingston HyperX genesis 2x4gb HSF - CM Hyper 212+ CASE - Fractal Design Define R3 HDD- Samsung Spinpoint F3 Desktop class 1TB Drive - Samsaung SH-222AB Question: I have a Corsair vx550w in my current pc. Will i be able to use this for my new pc? Ive searched the web and it seems 550w should be enough for a single 580, is this correct? Its 3 years old, not sure if that means anything. I hope thats enough info Thanks for help | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On September 16 2011 12:24 epikAnglory wrote: Is there a reason you run two GTX 460s? Was it for the fun of tweaking, getting a free card, or showing off? I always wanted to know Jingle lol. I remember the first time I asked SkyR a question was if I should crossfire two ATI 5670s, and then I remembered the exact same thing he replied back, that he would kill kittens if I did. Crossfiring 2 5670s is very ridiculous as that setup performs around the same as a single 5770(which is the same as 6770) and a single 5670 costs 75 euros whereas a 6770 costs 88.(I'm not sure if 6670 is same as 5670 but even if it is, one of those cost 66 euros.) However, it seems like most people are overreacting to http://techreport.com/articles.x/21516/1. Like, we can take crossfire 6870s and then we can take 570 that costs about the same depending on where you buy from. Even in that site 6870x2 clearly outperforms 570 in every one of their test setups. I also don't understand why they would test with Crossfired 6870 from ATI but only test SLi's GTX560 TI+ from Nvidia(which is actually comparable to 6950). It really gives you the wrong picture here.(Shows that Crossfire 6870 is the worst here when it's in fact also the cheapest card here) What we could of course do is compare 6870x2 to 570. So we get a question, would you rather have every other frame take 7ms and every other frame take 20-23ms, or would you have every frame take 21-23ms? The people who completely removed double-GPU rigs from their options are completely overreacting / misintepreting the information. It seems like the top end SLi setups have less micro-shuttering, but according to that test it's only when it doesn't really matter(It doesn't really matter if you have 60 fps or 140 fps and what the frame times etc are there), so when we look at the tougher test(Bulletstorm), we can actually see that Crossfire 6870s are in fact incredibly cost-effective, and completely crush a single 570, a single 580, a SLi 560Ti setup(which is 50% costier!) and even is competitive with 570 SLi. Starcraft seems to be a different case as it's not really GPU-capped and again, it doesn't really matter wether you have 200 FPS or 60. That being said, it seems like Radeon has some driver issues here, but even so you shouldn't be able to make out any actual real-world difference(Every GPU will play it completely smoothly). So what I pick up from that test: In the only game where framerates actually affect the gaming performance, Crossfired 6870s crush SLi 560Ti, 570, 580, and are the cheapest of the bunch. Yet numerous people use this as a reason to always avoid Crossfiring 6870s... On September 17 2011 00:24 Raavi wrote: Hello TL! In a few weeks from now, im going to be building my first pc I would like some feedback on the parts ive picked. Info: - Will be used for gaming - I have mouse/keyboard/windows - I will be playing at 1080p @ 120hz with Nvidia 3d vision. - I have never overclocked before, but i plan to get into it and do some 'soft' overclocking - SLI: not for now, but i would like to have the option. Parts: CPU - Intel core i5-2500k MOBO - ASUS Z68-V Pro GFX - MSI 580GTX Lightning RAM - Kingston HyperX genesis 2x4gb HSF - CM Hyper 212+ CASE - Fractal Design Define R3 HDD- Samsung Spinpoint F3 Desktop class 1TB Drive - Samsaung SH-222AB Question: I have a Corsair vx550w in my current pc. Will i be able to use this for my new pc? Ive searched the web and it seems 550w should be enough for a single 580, is this correct? Its 3 years old, not sure if that means anything. I hope thats enough info Thanks for help As you're most likely going to be overclocking your CPU, it's going to be really close. Not to mention that after 3 years your 550W PSU is no longer a 550W PSU, but closer to a 500/450 one(They always lose power over time), and that even one that stably runs at 550W would be borderline. Just buy a new PSU. Now with that said, I don't think a single 580 is the best bang for your buck. As you're looking to use 3D, you should obviously use Nvidia, but I think it'd be much more cost-efficient to go for a SLi setup straight from the start. The upgradeability would be a to a triple-SLi setup later on. I'd suggest SLi 570s. It's going to cost you a bit more, but the performance is going to increase significantly. You can also go for a single 570 and make it into SLi sooner, and 3-way SLi 570s instead of running SLi 580s eventually. If this is too costly, you can go for SLi 560 Ti's, that's still a much better solution than a single 580 and costs the same. 8 GB of ram might be too low for 3D, consider spending 20 bucks for 4GB more. So to recap: SLi 570s instead of single GTX 580, buy a new PSU in the 800-850W range. If that's too costly, SLi 560 Tis instead. Buy a new PSU in the 850-900W range even if you go with your current setup so that you can eventually upgrade the 580 into SLi(If you're not going to, go with a cheaper SLi setup instead). If you really want to just stick with the single 580, you still need to upgrade your PSU to around 600-650W so that you can overclock without worries. Remember, after 3 years your PSU is no longer 550W. Consider more RAM. However, that still is not all. Your card doesn't fit in that case. Change the case, or buy a different GTX 580, or buy something smaller than GTX 580, or get a jigsaw. | ||
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Sanix
Switzerland37 Posts
Many laptops come with SSD for the OS to support faster loading of the OS and applications. Is this also a common approach for desktop computers? Or are the harddisks faster in general? Are the video card drivers still as screwed up for Linux as they used to be 2 years ago? I know nvidia provides some specific kernel modules and a driver which works well but not as good as under windows. So it's still a huge speed loss for gaming, which kinda sucks. I heard AMD sockets have a better downwards compatibility, is this correct? If you have to change your motherboard for a new CPU, it makes everything much more expensive. Budget 1'500 CHF 1'711 USD 1 243 EUR Resolution 1680x1050 My monitor only supports this resolution, and I don't really want to buy a new one. What are you using it for? Mostly gaming but also programming. Programming mostly needs a fast hard disk and enough RAM for the IDEs. Regarding gaming, I guess the video card is most important here? What is your upgrade cycle? 3 years When do you plan on building it? Within 1-2 months Do you plan on overclocking? No Do you need an Operating System? No, but I' would prefer hardware that runs performant on linux systems. Which is not given with all video cards. The support got better during recent years but is still poor compared to Windows. Do you plan to add a second GPU for SLI or Crossfire? No Where are you buying your parts from? Switzerland Other Europe isn't really cheaper. If the goods exceed a certain value, I will pay additional money due to customs. The limit is around 80 CHF -> 100 USD. | ||
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
At 60FPS, the hardware limit for most displays, 16.667ms is the frame time. Most of the microstuttering numbers are in that range. What's that mean? If you aren't on a 120hz display with high framerates, odds are the stuttering will actually be nonexistent as far as the hardware is concerned. The real reasons for most people to avoid multi-GPU have much more to do with drivers, heat, new release incompatibility, noise, and power consumption. | ||
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FinBenton
Finland870 Posts
On September 17 2011 00:57 JingleHell wrote: The real reasons for most people to avoid multi-GPU have much more to do with drivers, heat, new release incompatibility, noise, and power consumption. Yeah mainly these reasons but in certain games, like say bfbc2 and crysis, I had horrible horrible stutter with multi gpu on 60hz and fps was much higher than 60. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On September 17 2011 00:57 JingleHell wrote: Everybody screams about microstuttering with multi-GPU, and they don't look at the actual numbers being reported. 15-20ms can look huge on the right graph, but what's it mean? It means, a frame time of 20ms is only 3.3/1000s of a second slower than the average refresh rate of 60hz. At 50 FPS, which most people consider playable, a frame time of 20ms is what you're averaging. At 60FPS, the hardware limit for most displays, 16.667ms is the frame time. Most of the microstuttering numbers are in that range. What's that mean? If you aren't on a 120hz display with high framerates, odds are the stuttering will actually be nonexistent as far as the hardware is concerned. The real reasons for most people to avoid multi-GPU have much more to do with drivers, heat, new release incompatibility, noise, and power consumption. Hey, we're clearly starting to get along! | ||
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skyR
Canada13817 Posts
Don't speak for everyone because pricing of 2x 6870 is definitely not about the same with a GTX 570 in America. A GTX 570 is roughly $310 while a single 6870 is roughly $170 (2x170 = $340). Even if you want to count rebates, it's still not about the same. No one here recommends GTX 570s so why the hell would we recommend CrossfireX 6870s which is even more costly... | ||
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Rachnar
France1526 Posts
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
On September 17 2011 01:08 Shikyo wrote: Hey, we're clearly starting to get along! It isn't about getting along, it's about correct and incorrect. If people would realize that it's almost never personal until they make it that way, they'd have a lot less issues with me. Unfortunately, people have difficulty separating bluntness from being insulting. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On September 17 2011 00:48 Sanix wrote: I'm planning to build a new computer. I have answered all the questions from the thread opener below but want to ask a few specific things in addition: Many laptops come with SSD for the OS to support faster loading of the OS and applications. Is this also a common approach for desktop computers? Or are the harddisks faster in general? Are the video card drivers still as screwed up for Linux as they used to be 2 years ago? I know nvidia provides some specific kernel modules and a driver which works well but not as good as under windows. So it's still a huge speed loss for gaming, which kinda sucks. I heard AMD sockets have a better downwards compatibility, is this correct? If you have to change your motherboard for a new CPU, it makes everything much more expensive. Budget 1'500 CHF 1'711 USD 1 243 EUR Resolution My monitor only supports this resolution, and I don't really want to buy a new one. What are you using it for? Mostly gaming but also programming. Programming mostly needs a fast hard disk and enough RAM for the IDEs. Regarding gaming, I guess the video card is most important here? What is your upgrade cycle? 3 years When do you plan on building it? Within 1-2 months Do you plan on overclocking? No Do you need an Operating System? No, but I' would prefer hardware that runs performant on linux systems. Which is not given with all video cards. The support got better during recent years but is still poor compared to Windows. Do you plan to add a second GPU for SLI or Crossfire? No Where are you buying your parts from? Switzerland Other Europe isn't really cheaper. If the goods exceed a certain value, I will pay additional money due to customs. The limit is around 80 CHF -> 100 USD. To the first points: high-end AMD is pretty bad atm so you don't really need to worry about that as your CPU is going to be too good for AMD. But that's probably true. SSDs are useful but only if you have a decent budget. I honestly don't know who has better Linux support and all my googling results in 5 year old threads so can't help with that. Swizerland isn't in EU right? Well that's troublesome. Would have been nice if you could have linked a Swiss computer part company. You also didn't say what resolution so I'll probably overkill it. I'll try http://digitec.ch/ but I don't know anything about them. Well, 1500 CHF is a huge budget. I'm not going to be able to hit that as you're not implying you want to even play games in fullHD, so here's something from http://digitech.ch : Intel Core i7 2600 BOX, 3.4GHz, LGA 1155, 4C/8T CHF 266.- Asus P8H61 EVO, H61 (B3), LGA1155, SATA-3, USB 3.0, ATX CHF 100.- MSI GTX-560 Ti Twin Frozr II/OC 1GB GDDR5, PCI-E 2.0 x16 CHF 239.- Samsung HD103SJ, F3, 7200rpm, 32MB, 1TB, SATA-II CHF 85.- OCZ Agility 3 120GB, SATA-3, 2.5 Zoll CHF 165.- Corsair Vengeance, 4x4GB, DDR3-1600, CL9@1.5V CHF 99.- Total: CHF 1111.- Now, as many people will say, people don't see that SSD as the most reliable one, so if you think reliability is more important than performance / price, you could go with this instead: Intel SSD 320 Series 120GB, SATA-II, 2.5 Zoll, Desktop Kit CHF 209.- If you find out that Radeon has better support for Linux than Nvidia, you could go with this: XFX HD 6950 2GB, PCI-E x16 2.0, DP, HDMI + Deus Ex: HR CHF 249.- But they don't have the 1GB variations for some reason(those would be cheaper), and that's more costly than the overclocked 560 Ti, with probably lower performance because of the other card being factory overclocked. If you really want to use your whole budget, I guess you could go for a larger SSD or even 2 large SSDs with RAID0 and use that as your only HD if the HD speed really is that important. | ||
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