EPTPlaying SC2 on high on a laptop is a steep enough requirement by itself before trying to limit yourself to laptops with fancy integrated audio solutions. What's your price range?
Computer Build Resource Thread - Page 44
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Myrmidon
United States9452 Posts
Playing SC2 on high on a laptop is a steep enough requirement by itself before trying to limit yourself to laptops with fancy integrated audio solutions. What's your price range? | ||
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Bair
United States698 Posts
On August 15 2010 12:44 Myrmidon wrote: What kind of audio work, and what do you mean by "decent?" Do you require low-latency audio passthrough? Good sound quality? Good speed encoding/effects processing? What kind of connectivity do you need (MIDI, optical in/out, how many channels, etc.)? TBH I think most people just get an external USB device or an ExpressCard sound card. Laptop integrated audio usually sucks. Playing SC2 on high on a laptop is a steep enough requirement by itself before trying to limit yourself to laptops with fancy integrated audio solutions. What's your price range? Under 1k would be nice, but isn't that always the case? Hopefully no higher than 1.5k. By audio work, CPU would be the limiting factor really. Going to be using soft synths and the like, so it eats up cycles pretty fast. Aside from that, not too big of a screen. Gotta be portable :/ | ||
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Myrmidon
United States9452 Posts
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Bair
United States698 Posts
Not recording/music work like plugging a keyboard into my computer. As for how well threaded it is...*shrugs* | ||
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Risen
United States7927 Posts
1100W XION http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817190025 I'm not too scared b/c I'm not running anything TOO crazy (i5 760, 1TB HD, 30GB SSD, 2x GTX460 in SLI, 4GB DDR3 1600 ram) but I thought I'd ask around here and see if I should be expecting any problems. | ||
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FragKrag
United States11563 Posts
It probably won't output 1.1kW and even if it does (or doesn't), that is going to be dirty power that could damage components. Or it's just an overall shitty PSU that won't last. | ||
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djcube
United States985 Posts
@Bair I think you'll be able to find a laptop < $1k that will fit your needs. I saw this laptop on newegg for instance: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834220739 Core i5 450M (2.40GHz) GT 335M 4GB DDR3 RAM 14'' Screen with 1366 x 768 native res. Price: $919.99 I wouldn't necessarily recommend this one b/c some of the reviewers said the audio quality isn't too good and you're going to be doing a lot audio work, correct? Point is, there should be something under $1k that can fit your needs. I was a bit skeptical about the GPU, but there are videos on youtube showing sc2 running on high/ultra on a core2duo 1.30GHz and a GT 335M gpu. | ||
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Risen
United States7927 Posts
On August 15 2010 13:30 djcube wrote: lol itzbrandnew, if that setup isn't crazy, then I have the tamest rig on TL I just said it wasn't crazy b/c I got it for about 1000 bucks. On August 15 2010 13:25 FragKrag wrote: If you have a PSU that is 1.1kW at $90, then they are 100% skimping somewhere whether its on the capacitors or whatever. I'm not sure why you jumped on it when there are better PSUs that are in that price range :/ It probably won't output 1.1kW and even if it does (or doesn't), that is going to be dirty power that could damage components. Or it's just an overall shitty PSU that won't last. I jumped on it because I figured I'd need a lot of power and it had 5/5 eggs >.< that and the manufacturer was replying to any complaints (even if it is in broken english at least they're there) | ||
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LetMeShine
979 Posts
Cases that actually try for silence like the Silverstone FT02, Antec P180, and Fractal Design R3 all use steel for this reason instead of straight aluminum. Fractal Design has stated that they're "not generally fans of aluminium because in terms of noise it's difficult to make it silent." If there's anyone living in Australia, Europe, or Canada, I recommend the Fractal Design R3. Its one of the few cases out there that gets pretty much everything right. The only bad thing are the poor fitting side panels (they stick). On August 15 2010 13:20 itzbrandnew wrote: So... I saw this power supply and jumped on it ASAP for my system I just built... it has 5/5 eggs and everything but now I'm scared (with given code it was 89.99) 1100W XION http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817190025 I'm not too scared b/c I'm not running anything TOO crazy (i5 760, 1TB HD, 30GB SSD, 2x GTX460 in SLI, 4GB DDR3 1600 ram) but I thought I'd ask around here and see if I should be expecting any problems. That 1100W PSU probably doesn't even reliably output 1100W of power. That's why you get a PSU from a good OEM (Seasonic, select Antec models (CP850 probably the best PSU if you've got a modern Antec case), Corsair or PC Power and Cooling) so you get what you pay for. 80% efficiency doesn't mean anything, I think every PSU in the market claims it has that efficiency these days. Buying Corsair means you've got a quality product because they're offering something absurd like 7 years warranty on the product (bad companies offer 3 years or less because they expect their products to die quickly). Xion is only offering one year warranty. Don't buy it, you're going to hate yourself later on. | ||
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Myrmidon
United States9452 Posts
Bair: at under $1000 and at a reasonably portable size, high settings with high frame rates may not be a reasonable expectation. The laptop posted earlier should be comfortable with medium, possibly high. These options are 15.6", more powerful, and more expensive: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834146777 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834220700 | ||
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1312020
United States28 Posts
Just seeing if anyone has any huge grievances about it that I should know about before I get it tomorrow. Should be enough to run an i7-930, GTX 470, 4 gigs of RAM and one HDD, right? | ||
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nineninja9
United States194 Posts
On August 15 2010 14:06 LetMeShine wrote: That 1100W PSU probably doesn't even reliably output 1100W of power. That's why you get a PSU from a good OEM (Seasonic, select Antec models (CP850 probably the best PSU if you've got a modern Antec case), Corsair or PC Power and Cooling) so you get what you pay for. 80% efficiency doesn't mean anything, I think every PSU in the market claims it has that efficiency these days. Buying Corsair means you've got a quality product because they're offering something absurd like 7 years warranty on the product (bad companies offer 3 years or less because they expect their products to die quickly). Xion is only offering one year warranty. Don't buy it, you're going to hate yourself later on. Just to clarify, neither Antec nor Corsair produce their own power supplies, so to refer to them as a "good OEM" is somewhat inaccurate. In addition, Seasonic is not the only reputable OEM. Just off the top of my head, CWT produces great power supplies, and I know that they produce many of the best Corsair branded power supplies. In addition, there are plenty of budget power supplies that function within specs. OCZ is one of my favorite budget PSU brands, and looking up reviews will show that some of their models function quite well, especially considering how much they cost. XFX offers some higher end PSUs (I know that some are Seasonic rebrands) for lower prices than a comparable Corsair. Even some specific Rosewill power supplies function quite well and are very inexpensive, though obviously this varies depending on which specific model you want (Rosewill is owned by newegg, FYI). 80% efficiency does actually mean something when it is a legitimate certification and not a fake label put on by the company. Just because *most* reputable PSUs have that qualification does not mean it is worthless. However, the company behind the 80+ certification tests power supplies at an unrealistic temperature (I believe around 20C?), though some companies such as corsair do hold their power supplies to higher standards in order to compensate for this. That being said, your XION power supply seems very questionable and I can't seem to find many comprehensive reviews that prove otherwise. However, I highly doubt you are pushing it to its advertised limits, so even if it can produce ~70% of its rated power you should be relatively safe. I say relatively because honestly, I still don't trust it. | ||
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FragKrag
United States11563 Posts
On August 15 2010 14:43 1312020 wrote: So from what I've read this is a pretty reliable power supply: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371031 Just seeing if anyone has any huge grievances about it that I should know about before I get it tomorrow. Should be enough to run an i7-930, GTX 470, 4 gigs of RAM and one HDD, right? Yes, it should be enough and it is a good PSU  | ||
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LetMeShine
979 Posts
80% efficiency does actually mean something when it is a legitimate certification and not a fake label put on by the company. Just because *most* reputable PSUs have that qualification does not mean it is worthless. However, the company behind the 80+ certification tests power supplies at an unrealistic temperature (I believe around 20C?), though some companies such as corsair do hold their power supplies to higher standards in order to compensate for this. That precisely is why its meaningless these days. In Australia, you can buy SHAW power supplies with 80% Silver for something like $50 AUD but you know they're shit because they're SHAW power supplies and they're cheap as chips. Its just a fancy label to slap on to your PSU, nothing more and nothing less. The fact that a 1100W power supply only has one year of warranty should be a massive warning telling you to not buy it. Just to clarify, neither Antec nor Corsair produce their own power supplies, so to refer to them as a "good OEM" is somewhat inaccurate. In addition, Seasonic is not the only reputable OEM. Just off the top of my head, CWT produces great power supplies, and I know that they produce many of the best Corsair branded power supplies. You're correct that most people don't really make their own power supplies and really just out source the inner workings to other companies (FSP, CWT, Delta and Seasonic are the big boys in the business). CWT are good but not "great". The newer models are much better the the old models, especially those used in the old Antecs before they decided to switch a lot of their high end models to Seasonic were plagued with poor capacitors. | ||
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nineninja9
United States194 Posts
On August 15 2010 14:58 LetMeShine wrote: That precisely is why its meaningless these days. In Australia, you can buy SHAW power supplies with 80% Silver for something like $50 AUD but you know they're shit because they're SHAW power supplies. Its just a fancy label to slap on to your PSU, nothing more and nothing less. You read actual reviews (not Newegg user reviews since they don't mean anything) to determine whether or not they're actually good. Except they do mean something. 80+ certification means that they operate at 80% efficiency at 23C. Unless your definition of "nothing" is "something." I am not particularly familiar with SHAW power supplies so I cannot comment on them. If the 80+ silver certification is legitimate, I've already explained what that means (I think silver is 83%?), and if it is a fake badge, then obviously it is worthless since it is false. EDIT: Actually silver is 85% minimum. At that point, I think even with a testing temp of 23C it should qualify for 80+ certification at a more realistic operating temperature of around 40C. Again, this is assuming that it is not a fake 80+ badge. EDIT2: At the very least I know that CWT produces some of the Corsair TX and HX series power supplies, a company you seem to hold to very high esteem. In my opinion, they are "great" now, regardless how they may have been in the past.. Just as an aside, obviously Newegg reviews are rather unreliable. They generally do not consist of much more than whether the PSU worked, maybe with a comment or two about fan noise. | ||
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semantics
10040 Posts
80+ certification has it flaws but you should always check if a psu acutlly is certified, the most common reason for a lack of certification is that an OEM like CWT or delta who designed and already sell the psu model has the certification, but the slight differences in model that is sold to a company like antec vs the one they already produce for corsair or w.e has yet to be sent it and tested itself. Others like i think Aerocool just flat out lie and never will send in their power supplies for testing. http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/Understanding-the-80-Plus-Certification/742/2 The good: 1. They use testing equipment with better precision. The good news is that we are moving to a wattmeter with 0.2% precision, while their methodology says their wattmeter has a precision of at least 0.5%. 2. Although their methodology paper says that can test power supplies under 115 V or 230 V, they usually test power supplies at 115 V, so numbers won’t be inflated by the use of a 230 V power grid. The exception is power supplies targeted to datacenters, that can only work at 230 V and thus this is the voltage they use to evalute this power supply class. 3. To be certified power supplies must present a power factor (PF) of at least 0.90 (0.95 for the Platinum certification). Click here to understand what this is. We measure this in our tests. The bad: 1. Their tests are conducted inside a thermal chamber with a constant temperature of 23º C (73.4º F) ±5%. This is ridiculous as no computer in the world works internally at such low temperature. The problem is that as temperature increases power supplies start consuming more from the power grid in order to deliver the same amount of power on their outputs, so efficiency typically decreases with temperature. Our tests here on Hardware Secrets are conducted with a temperature between 45º C and 50º C (113º F and 122º F) inside our thermal chamber, as we want to measure power supplies under real-world conditions. 2. Power supplies are tested only under three loads: 20%, 50% and 100% (called “light”, “typical” and “full”, respectively). At one hand the use of these three loads is enough for having an overall idea of the power supply efficiency. On the other hand, for a more precise measurement it is our opinion that they needed to do tests under several different loads, especially when they are charging for doing so. In our tests we test power supplies under five different loads: 20%, 40%, 60%, 80% and 100%. 3. They don’t disclose the exact equipments (e.g., manufacturers and models) they use on their testing. Imo 80+ certification is nice to have but it doesn't mean a reliable good psu just means the psu can pull it's listed wattage with x % of efficiency, which only hints to a quality of a psu when bought new, it really doesn't fill you in with how the psu is made and what parts are used. For that a good review by sites like johnny guru or hardware secrets is strongly recommended. | ||
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LetMeShine
979 Posts
On August 15 2010 15:08 nineninja9 wrote: Except they do mean something. 80+ certification means that they operate at 80% efficiency at 23C. Unless your definition of "nothing" is "something." I am not particularly familiar with SHAW power supplies so I cannot comment on them. If the 80+ silver certification is legitimate, I've already explained what that means (I think silver is 83%?), and if it is a fake badge, then obviously it is worthless since it is false. EDIT: Actually silver is 85% minimum. At that point, I think even with a testing temp of 23C it should qualify for 80+ certification at a more realistic operating temperature of around 40C. Again, this is assuming that it is not a fake 80+ badge. They do mean something, but since your computer is in a case, normally right under your boiling hot GPU, they don't mean anything because the rating is given assuming the power supply is operating in a completely unrealistic environment. Its meaningless because your computer that area is not going to operate at that temperature, especially if you live in a warm country like Australia. Then you're not taking into whether or not the manufacturer can skimped on the quality of capacitors, fan, thermal design or whatever which means the efficiency can decrease massively under constant use over time. That is my point, when you buy a power supply the efficiency is meaningless because a lot of power supply manufacturers will skimp, lie, or fudge their way through this competitive market. That is why you read reviews that test whether or not these power supplies slip the minute they operate in a real environment and not in a 20 degree room. That is my point, don't look at facy tags but actually read up on what you are getting. For example, I'm pretty certain that the XFX power supplies are only "designed" by Seasonic, meaning they've skimped on areas they've determined not important. | ||
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mav451
United States1596 Posts
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nineninja9
United States194 Posts
I agree that it is always beneficial to read more detailed reviews on power supplies. 80+ certification does not guarantee that a power supply is high quality, but it does guarantee it has an 80+ certification. In addition, I find the implication that I do not read up on power supplies to be rather insulting. I try to be at least somewhat informed on topics I give advice on, though if I have made a mistake somewhere I will try and correct it. On August 15 2010 15:21 LetMeShine wrote: That is my point, when you buy a power supply the efficiency is meaningless because a lot of power supply manufacturers will skimp, lie, or fudge their way through this competitive market. That is why you read reviews that test whether or not these power supplies slip the minute they operate in a real environment and not in a 20 degree room. That is my point, don't look at facy tags but actually read up on what you are getting. For example, I'm pretty certain that the XFX power supplies are only "designed" by Seasonic, meaning they've skimped on areas they've determined not important. I must say I am unaware of whether or not there are power supplies that are "designed" by a reputable company and then actually "manufactured" by another company. However, I would like a source for this assertion before conceding this point. A quick search of hardwaresecrets claims that these two XFX power supplies are "manufactured" by Seasonic, but the ambiguity of the word "manufacture" means I cannot make a conclusive judgement on whether they were only "designed" by Seasonic. In addition, Hardwaresecrets could be a far less reliable source than I have been lead to believe, so if I have been mislead I apologize. I cannot find a mention of the OEM of various XFX power supplies with a quick search of johnnyguru or overclockersclub, but there is a mention of a PCB used in PC power and cooling PSUs. This is not conclusive evidence either way, but I do not think it's a stretch to say that PC power and cooling is(was) a reputable PSU Brand. I believe Seasonic was an OEM manufacturer for PC power and cooling as well, though they did rebrand PSUs from other companies, as do antec, corsair, and virtually every other company that rebrands power supplies. | ||
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LetMeShine
979 Posts
Hence the reason why some of the Seasonic designed XFX PSUs struggle when it comes to crossloading while the actual Seasonic M12D (IIRC) handles it pretty decently. Not really a problem its still a good PSU but it is representative of my point that you've got to make sure what you're paying for. Tags like 80 plus mean little when everyone is lying their asses out, engineering their samples to operate at certain temperatures, or taking out bits to save cash. Any good PSU will be efficient anyway - the more efficient, the less heat it will produce and the longer it will live anyway. That is my point. Its like comparing reference design graphics cards and those non-reference graphics cards XFX and friends put out. The reference design PCBs are generally over-engineered and beefier than non-reference designs who generally sometimes skimp on parts that aren't really necessary for general use. | ||
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