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On July 06 2013 04:05 Cyro wrote:Fraps is lossless bro, he's not live encoding Seriously though, i'd hold out and see if Nvidia Shadowplay can give good results with recording. If it works out like it should, you might be able to record without a performance hit, or with only a very tiny one. As it stands right now, nothing in software, fraps, xsplit/obs etc, can come anywhere close to 0 performance hit, they all hurt quite a bit especially running at higher resolutions/framerates, with any system, shadowplay bypasses that some by using hardware on the GPU for video capture. I don't know how demanding minecraft is in terms of CPU, but you shouldn't need a super high end system to do this stuff. Nobody running windows movie maker will require 30% higher cpu performance, especially if it comes at the cost of more expensive mobo, a lot on cpu cooler and quite a lot of time, any modern performance cpu is still extremely powerful
Thanks for the responses! Just some more information I'd like to give.
My HP pavilion DV7 laptop recently died which is what I've been using to run minecraft with fraps, and I decided I wanted to get a desktop machine instead of another laptop. My HP was able to run minecraft and fraps simultaniously with useable performance (as in, the game is playable, but I have to avoid certain situations to avoid having lag). I'd get lag whenever it rained, requiring me to turn off particles, which is no fun. I'd often have to turn down the graphics settings and reduce render distance to prevent stutter, and I'm hoping to avoid doing that by building a more powerful desktop machine.
Minecraft has deceptively low system requirements. Because minecraft is a sandbox game where players can basically build whatever they want, it is very easy for players to build things in minecraft that can cause lag. For example, many monster farms result in hundreds of entities building up in a confined space, which obviously increases the performance requirement. In other words, while you don't need the highest computer stats to get minecraft to RUN, extra horsepower is never wasted on minecraft because there is no limit to the number of mobs that you can stuff into one space. That is why I set such a high budget. I want to get the most beastly PC that I possibly can for $1800.
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United Kingdom20326 Posts
I don't know if you can really get much/any benefit though, once you have a decent system and a good RAM pool (i hear minecraft can use >10gb, though that might just be for insane texture packs etc)
What resolution videos are you looking to make? 1920x1080? 30fps for youtube id assume
Fraps really hurts performance on every system i've tried it with and software solutions in general can't really be very good, which is why i mentioned shadowplay, it's not released yet* (silly delays) but it could be great for recording gameplay especially for stuff like youtube videos.
*Shadowplay is a feature included on nvidia gtx 600 and 700 series cards, i think the mid and high range ones (maybe not lowest?) for live encoding videos of games or your screen (i'm not sure exactly how it works yet) that should run really well because the screen capture and live encoding is built into hardware, on the GPU. It's not released yet, but when it does (should be within weeks) it will be enabled on all of the supported cards via software download
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On July 06 2013 04:41 Cyro wrote:
I don't know if you can really get much/any benefit though, once you have a decent system and a good RAM pool (i hear minecraft can use >10gb, though that might just be for insane texture packs etc)
What resolution videos are you looking to make? 1920x1080? 30fps for youtube id assume
Fraps really hurts performance on every system i've tried it with and software solutions in general can't really be very good, which is why i mentioned shadowplay, it's not released yet* (silly delays) but it could be great for recording gameplay especially for stuff like youtube videos.
*Shadowplay is a feature included on nvidia gtx 600 and 700 series cards, i think the mid and high range ones (maybe not lowest?) for live encoding videos of games or your screen (i'm not sure exactly how it works yet) that should run really well because the screen capture and live encoding is built into hardware, on the GPU. It's not released yet, but when it does (should be within weeks) it will be enabled on all of the supported cards via software download
On my old HP laptop I was recording videos at 800x418 for youtube, but I would like to be able to record videos for youtube HD (about 1080p) so that I can get more views. I found that, on my old HP Pavilion DV7 laptop Fraps would generally reduce my framerate from 40-60fps down to about 20-30 fps. I will definitely give nvidia a try, but for now I'm going to keep using Fraps, since it's worked for me thus far.
Minecraft, as I've said, can use an insane amount of just about any computer resource, depending on what you build in it. For example, if I build a humongous Iron Golem farm that produces 120 Iron Golems per hour (which I have) and then wait a 2 hours before collecting, I'll have 240 golems in the collection chamber. That's just one example of the ways in which players can make minecraft use more resources than you might otherwise assume it would. Also, certain parts of minecraft, such es the hellish region called the Nether, tend to lag a lot, especially when chunks are loading. This is why I set such a high budget. I have really no problem with spending an extra $800 on this PC, even if in many situations the extra power is overkill (a current build that was suggested to me came to about $900).
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On July 06 2013 03:31 iTzSnypah wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2013 03:27 codonbyte wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
What is your budget?
My budget is $1500 to $1800.
What is your resolution?
As per the advice of the Simple Questions/Simple Answers thread, I intend to grab a 1920x1080 monitor. Please note that I have already factored the cost of a monitor into the budget I listed above, so you do NOT need to have a monitor included in the build you give me.
What are you using it for?
I plan to use this machine to make Minecraft videos for Youtube. I will need to run Minecraft and Fraps at the same time, preferably without any stutter at all. I would like to be able to run Minecraft on the maximum render distance, and with the highest graphics settings. In particular, I would like the PC to be able to load and render chunks quickly, even in the Nether (the Nether tends to be especially laggy).
Mojang (company that makes Minecraft) recommends that you have 64-bit Java if you want to run Minecraft on Far render distance, so I really need the PC to be able to run 64-bit Java (I assume this means that the PC would be a 64-bit system, but I do not know much about that).
I also do plan on playing Starcraft II on the machine, but Minecraft is the main thing I'm getting it for, and I do not plan on making any Starcraft II videos. I also don't care about running Starcraft II on high graphics settings. Minecraft is really 98% of the reason I'm building this PC.
Obviously, since I'm making youtube videos I will be doing some editing and rendering. Currently I'm just using the free windows movie-making software (forget what it's called). While being able to render video footage while recording Minecraft with Fraps would be a nice bonus, it is not absolutely necessary, since I can always render video on my laptop while I record on the gaming PC.
What is your upgrade cycle?
My upgrade cycle is definitely going to be longer than 2 years. I see no reason why Minecraft will require more processing power 2 years from now, so I'm definitely going to be keeping this PC for longer than 2 years. Depending on how things work out I'll probably be keeping it for 3-4 years.
When do you plan on building it?
ASAP. As soon as I get a parts list I'm going to get out my debit card and order those parts.
Do you plan on overclocking?
Nope!
Do you need an Operating System?
Yes. As I said above, I would like to be able to run 64-bit java, and I will need a windows operating system that can handle that (which I assume is 64-bit windows, but I really don't know). If you can link me to the operating system that I need to buy that would be great.
Do you plan to add a second GPU for SLI or Crossfire?
If you guys recommend that I do this from the start AND it can be done within the budget I provided, then I will do it. But if not, then I have no intention of doing it at a later date.
Where are you buying your parts from?
Online. I do not have any good computer parts stores nearby. If you can link me to web-pages that sell the parts you suggest, then that would be wonderful.
Overclocking your CPU will greatly increase the video(record) quality. And $1500 is about $500 more than you need to spend. So I would seriously reconsider on Overclocking. E: The fastest Locked Intel parts run at 3.4Ghz. Almost every unlocked Intel part (97%+) can run at 4.4Ghz. That's a 30% increase in clock speed and as performance scales almost linearly that's ~30% more performance. E2: Here's a list based on your requests (no oc): Intel i5-4570 + Seagate 3TB HDD $316.98 http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.1384500ASRock B85M Pro4 $79.99 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168131573888GB (2x4GB) DDR3-1600 c9 1.5v + HD7770 $147.98 http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.1377366Samsung 840 120GB SSD $109.99 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820147185Rosewill Capstone 450 $59.99 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182066SilverStone PS07B $74.99 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811163186Or Corsair 350D $89.99 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811139020DVD Burner (If needed) $14.99 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827151266Windows 7 64-bit $99.99 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116986Total: $830-860
Thank you very much for assembling this build for me. I'm probably going to be ordering the parts tonight. Also, that harddrive + CPU deal looks awesome. I'm going to order the parts right now.
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Thank you very much for taking the time to assemble this build for me. Just a couple questions:
Would it be possible for me to assemble the above build as-is right now without overclocking, and then overclock it at a later date if I decide that I want overclocking? I assume that this CPU cooler is only necessary if I'm going to overclock. Is that correct? If I'm not going to overclock can I just use the cooler that comes with the CPU? The CPU does come with a cooler, doesn't it?
Also, in my original build request, I overestimated how much it would cost and I said that I wasn't interested in adding a second GPU for SLI or crossfire. Do you think this is something that I will likely want to do later on? If so, is the build you suggested a build that would allow that? Would doing that give me enhanced performance with what I want to do?
Thanks again for taking the time to compile this build for me. It looks really awesome :D
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question about motherboard form factors: full atx vs m-atx
I only see myself using GPU on PCIe3.0 slot, but what are the other PCI slots generally used for? Most of my peripherals are USB interface anyway
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Other PCIe x16 slots are used for additonal video cards mostly. PCIe x1 slots are used for things like SATA controllers. I want to say sound cards use PCIe x1, too, not that they're used very often these days.
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On July 06 2013 05:29 codonbyte wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Thank you very much for taking the time to assemble this build for me. Just a couple questions: Would it be possible for me to assemble the above build as-is right now without overclocking, and then overclock it at a later date if I decide that I want overclocking? I assume that this CPU cooler is only necessary if I'm going to overclock. Is that correct? If I'm not going to overclock can I just use the cooler that comes with the CPU? The CPU does come with a cooler, doesn't it? Also, in my original build request, I overestimated how much it would cost and I said that I wasn't interested in adding a second GPU for SLI or crossfire. Do you think this is something that I will likely want to do later on? If so, is the build you suggested a build that would allow that? Would doing that give me enhanced performance with what I want to do? Thanks again for taking the time to compile this build for me. It looks really awesome :D
Intel provides a heatsink for all their retail boxed processors so you can just purchase and install a better heatsink at a later date when you do decide to overclock.
Overclocking requires a K suffix processor and a Z series motherboard so my build can be overclocked at anytime you wish. If you're talking about iTzSnypah's build then that can never be overclocked.
The motherboard is capable of both SLI and CrossfireX but the power supply will not be sufficient for it. Minecraft does not support SLI / CrossfireX to my knowledge so you'll never need it.
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Unless you plan on getting monitor/s $1500 is much more than you would need to spend.
In general I think buying with the consideration of OC'ing in the future is wise as the price difference is negligible. For when you are waiting for an upgrade that may be just around the corner from release being able to squeeze out those few more frames can make the difference between playable and too choppy.
If you want the best performance you can get for the video editing part you might be able to justify getting a large SSD for your videos to be worked with as this is the slowest link in the video edit chain and a standard HDD is a severe choke point.
Just some ideas though I defer to the more knowledgeable for the veracity of my opinions.
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On July 06 2013 05:29 codonbyte wrote:Thank you very much for taking the time to assemble this build for me. Just a couple questions: Would it be possible for me to assemble the above build as-is right now without overclocking, and then overclock it at a later date if I decide that I want overclocking? I assume that this CPU cooler is only necessary if I'm going to overclock. Is that correct? If I'm not going to overclock can I just use the cooler that comes with the CPU? The CPU does come with a cooler, doesn't it? Also, in my original build request, I overestimated how much it would cost and I said that I wasn't interested in adding a second GPU for SLI or crossfire. Do you think this is something that I will likely want to do later on? If so, is the build you suggested a build that would allow that? Would doing that give me enhanced performance with what I want to do? Thanks again for taking the time to compile this build for me. It looks really awesome :D
You can overclock at a later date and use Intel's cooler for now. It will run like an i5-4670 if you use default settings and don't touch anything in the BIOS.
That build is with a motherboard that can do SLI. The case is good for that with another large fan. The rear fan's spot is for a large 140mm fan which is a bit special and great. You can remove half of the drive cages for better air flow. It has a fan controller which might be neat.
I'm skeptical about upgrading to SLI in the future. The graphics cards don't really drop much in price over the years if you want a second new card. You would have to hunt for a used card on ebay for a lower price. The price for new, unused cards can't drop as NVidia and AMD only ever produce current GPUs, stop producing old GPUs and replace them with new ones at similar price. After a few years, the new cards will start to double the performance of this card for a similar price.
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United Kingdom20326 Posts
I will definitely give nvidia a try, but for now I'm going to keep using Fraps, since it's worked for me thus far.
Why would you use a many years old software solution that cuts your framerate instead of a state of the art hardware solution that promises to be significantly better in almost every way, with a 0-5% performance hit instead of cutting your framerate in half and adding input lag? I mean Fraps costs money, shadowplay is free. It just seems weird to me not to want to use it
In terms of CPU and GPU; Any links to benchmarks showing scaling? I wouldn't have really considered a high end gaming system with overclocked haswell just to get minecraft to decent FPS
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On July 06 2013 05:43 nosliw wrote:
question about motherboard form factors: full atx vs m-atx
I only see myself using GPU on PCIe3.0 slot, but what are the other PCI slots generally used for? Most of my peripherals are USB interface anyway
If you're talking about PCI then that's a legacy connector, Intel has dropped support for it.
PCIe can be used for GPUs, CPUs, SSDs, NICs, sound cards, and so on.
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On July 06 2013 05:56 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote +I will definitely give nvidia a try, but for now I'm going to keep using Fraps, since it's worked for me thus far. Why would you use a many years old software solution that cuts your framerate instead of a state of the art hardware solution that promises to be significantly better in almost every way, with a 0-5% performance hit instead of cutting your framerate in half and adding input lag? I mean Fraps costs money, shadowplay is free. It just seems weird to me not to want to use it In terms of CPU and GPU; Any links to benchmarks showing scaling? I wouldn't have really considered a high end gaming system with overclocked haswell just to get minecraft to decent FPS
I already have a licence for Fraps, so I will continue using that for now. Once Shadowplay comes out, I will start using that. The video card that skyR recommended to me (GTX 760) is a GTX 700 series card, so it will support Shadowplay. Once Shadowplay is released, I'll definitely be using that. Until then, I'll be using Fraps since it has worked for me in the past, and I already have a licence for it.
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On July 06 2013 05:56 skyR wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2013 05:43 nosliw wrote:
question about motherboard form factors: full atx vs m-atx
I only see myself using GPU on PCIe3.0 slot, but what are the other PCI slots generally used for? Most of my peripherals are USB interface anyway If you're talking about PCI then that's a legacy connector, Intel has dropped support for it. PCIe can be used for GPUs, CPUs, SSDs, NICs, sound cards, and so on.
Ya I was talking about PCI slots. I'm getting a H77 mb, and it only supports 1 PCIe 3.0 card right? Are the old PCI slots = PCIe 2.0 types?
for example:
motherboard
the black PCIe 1 and PCI are not useful now right?
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On July 06 2013 08:24 nosliw wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On July 06 2013 05:56 skyR wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2013 05:43 nosliw wrote:
question about motherboard form factors: full atx vs m-atx
I only see myself using GPU on PCIe3.0 slot, but what are the other PCI slots generally used for? Most of my peripherals are USB interface anyway If you're talking about PCI then that's a legacy connector, Intel has dropped support for it. PCIe can be used for GPUs, CPUs, SSDs, NICs, sound cards, and so on. Ya I was talking about PCI slots. I'm getting a H77 mb, and it only supports 1 PCIe 3.0 card right? Are the old PCI slots = PCIe 2.0 types? for example: motherboardthe black PCIe 1 and PCI are not useful now right?
PCI and PCIe (x1, x4, x8, x16, etc) are different. PCIe will continue to be the standard for the foreseeable future. While Intel has dropped support for PCI on their newer chipsets, that does not mean PCI will randomly disappear. Lots of PCI cards are still on the market and board manufacturers will continue to put PCI on some of their boards.
PCIe 2.0 and 3.0 are backwards compatible so a 3.0 card will work in either slot.
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okay so here i go with what i think is my final build skyr i just have a few questions.
case: fractal design define r4 white/black pearl havent decided yet (microcenter)
motherboard: gigabyte87x-ud4h (microcenter)
cpu: 4770k (microcenter)
gpu: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127741 (amazon)
psu: rosewill capstone 650W-M (amazon)
ssd: samsung 840 250GB (ncix atm )
ram: gskill ripjaws 8gb 1866 (purchased)
cd-drive: will scoop one up at microcenter
heatsink: noctua nh-u14s or corsair h100i waiting for advice
roughly $1400
my questions are as follows:
1) assuming i plan on adding a third monitor (3x 1920x1080 benq xl2420t) to use eyefinity, will this rig be enough to utilize it? will i need a second card?
2) is 650w enough if i ever decided or need to use sli?
3) thinking of using a h100i instead like you suggested but will it fit easily?
and please tell me im putting together a nice computer here lol -_____-
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On July 06 2013 09:02 aBstractx wrote:+ Show Spoiler +okay so here i go with what i think is my final build skyr i just have a few questions. case: fractal design define r4 white/black pearl havent decided yet (microcenter) motherboard: gigabyte87x-ud4h (microcenter) cpu: 4770k (microcenter) gpu: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127741 (amazon) psu: rosewill capstone 650W-M (amazon) ssd: samsung 840 250GB (ncix atm ) ram: gskill ripjaws 8gb 1866 (purchased) cd-drive: will scoop one up at microcenter heatsink: noctua nh-u14s or corsair h100i waiting for advice roughly $1400 my questions are as follows: 1) assuming i plan on adding a third monitor (3x 1920x1080 benq xl2420t) to use eyefinity, will this rig be enough to utilize it? will i need a second card? 2) is 650w enough if i ever decided or need to use sli? 3) thinking of using a h100i instead like you suggested but will it fit easily? and please tell me im putting together a nice computer here lol -_____-
To play at 5760x1080, you will need a second card if you want to play games on reasonably high settings. For max settings, GTX 770 SLI will not be able to maintain 60+ FPS in most games.
Corsair H100i will be mounted at the top in the Define R4. The Noctua NH-U14S is fine too, just depends on your definition of beauty.
650w is okay if you don't do crazy overclocks on both the i7 and pair of 770s. May want to consider a fully modular unit if you're going for beauty like the Seasonic X which is just like $20 more (also seven years of warranty).
It's a nice computer.
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Geez someone is splurging on a PC. I'm still rocking a 760 Lynnfield with a 560 Ti and reluctant for a Haswell upgrade. And I work with many rendering and CAD programs. Booooo!!
edit: Though I'm hoping by the winter holiday season there will be some price cuts on Haswells and Nvidia rolling out the rest of their 700 series.
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EPT
