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On May 16 2013 06:21 Cyro wrote:
Yea your CPU is good man. Did you try Superpi voltages or short runs to feel it out at higher frequencies? You could totally go for 4.9 with a higher end heatsink or 5.1 with delid probably, depending on how voltages scale up.
And i get what you are saying Gumbi, i just value a 20c temperature drop on CPU at a lot more than 20 euros. Maybe that's personal? And to clarify i am saying i believe hyper 212 used to be a great choice, but in light of other options and ivy bridge running hotter yet still scaling really hard, that it is not as good any more
At gaming loads, does it really matter? A CPU running at 70 degrees max while gaming?
OFC, I paid 22 euro for the 212+, the evo is 30 euro (I believe they hiked the prices some time ago).
I posted my temps on the other page for you to see if you like.
BTW, shouldn't CPU-Z be reporting the voltage in real time? If it is, my CPU isn't undervolting like it should. The VID drops to 0.90 at 1600mhz (it does underclock properly), but the core voltage according to CPU-Z hangs around 1.28).
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United Kingdom20275 Posts
I saw your temps, and it's not about gaming temps, it's about the temperature limit you set for your overclock, almost all of the time that is decided by stress test temperatures (sometimes more/less stressful) or even things like x264 encodes that pin the cpu at 100%
You can't say the cooler is not improvable because the cpu runs at 70c max while gaming, when that could be 50 for example, or you could be running 300mhz higher
hr-02 macho is something like 36 euro - that's why it's such a killer.
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But temps don't matter to me as long as they're not harmful  But yeah, a Macho for 36 quid vs evo for 29/30 is an easy decision.
Can you answer my question regarding CPU-Z? :D
Thanks!
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/tAXU8Zg.jpg)
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United Kingdom20275 Posts
I think you need to use offset voltage for it to drop without load, or maybe some other power saving settings. Offset will just take it from your VID, which is like 0.25v lower without load at 1.6ghz
If temps dont matter and you are like 65c under gaming load, why dont you add another 300-400mhz? see my point? :D
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You're seriously overestimating the difference in performance. It's definitely not 20 C for the extra 20 EUR. I looked around a lot when deciding on a cooler, but it's very hard to find reviews where they go high enough for the CPU to throttle. From what I could find, it seems it's more like 5 C. This then results in 100 MHz more being possible. The biggest thing is that the HR-02 does better cooling with a lot less noise.
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On May 16 2013 07:35 Cyro wrote:
I think you need to use offset voltage for it to drop without load, or maybe some other power saving settings. Offset will just take it from your VID, which is like 0.25v lower without load at 1.6ghz
If temps dont matter and you are like 65c under gaming load, why dont you add another 300-400mhz? see my point?
I can't seem to set an offset voltage if I set a manual voltage... It's greyed out in that case. I'll have a look at it further.
I understand what you're dying, but with 4.6ghz at nearly 1.3v, I'm nearing the voltage cliff, where I'd have to fight for that 400 MHz. Of course, if the Macho can give me that for 8 quid more than a 212 I'm all for it.
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United States17233 Posts
Yeah, that's how it works. You do one or the other.
Manual: "Always use this"
Offset: "Use the amount automatically set for this clockrate plus X" (so when it downclocks the amount of voltage also goes down, but the offset still is the same, e.g. 1.3 + .05 "full", 1.1 + .05 "low")
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Some boards do not allow offset voltage, eg. all of MSI boards
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Updated Parts List
I think all this fits together this time, what do you guys think?
edit: decided against overclocking as I think it would bump up the price unnecessarily, and it's just easier not to.
+ Show Spoiler +
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United States17233 Posts
You can't OC with an H77 board iirc.
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Overclocking requires a Z77 board, you have a H77 board selected.
Raidmax power supplies are shit. A Rosewill Capstone 450 is $10 more and is significantly better than that piece of shit. If you can't afford $10 more than you can get a Corsair CX430 which is available for less and still better than the Raidmax.
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The GPU says it needs a 500W power supply, and sorry about the ninja edit. I decided against overclocking as I think it would bump up the price unnecessarily, and it's just easier not to. This build looks more than powerful enough for almost anything I will want to do.
If a below 500W PSU is okay, then I will go with the Rosewill Capstone 450.
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United Kingdom20275 Posts
HR-02 macho is much closer to the nh-d14 than 212+. There's a massive gap. If you need 1.3v for 4.6, probably not a big improvement in clock speed - but hey, you are sat quite a bit higher on temps than i would be comfortable with myself, nevermind setting for somebody else to use who cant fiddle with it if something goes wrong (i set an overclock for somebody with an absolute max of 82c on second hottest core, and within a week had temperature related fails because of ambient conditions i didn't account for and change in position of the case)
Max temps, to my understanding, you are looking at something like ~1.25v for 212+, 1.35v for hr-02 macho, 1.4 for nh-d14 or something along those lines. The difference is not 5c.
The GPU says it needs a 500W power supply
It says that because older power supplies weighted voltage rails differently (modern GPU's require all of their power in 12v - many older PSU's could only supply like half of their rated wattage at 12v, but modern ones like the rosewill capstone can supply almost all of it in 12v) and because most power supplies are literal and figurative fire hazards that shouldn't be anywhere near a computer system, not quality components
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@32:
If you decided against overclocking, this opens up looking at all the other i5 CPUs and the Xeon E3-1230v2 and higher. You don't need to pay for the i5 with the "k" at the end anymore. You might also want to skip the aftermarket CPU cooler and just use Intel's stock cooler.
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Power supply recommendations made by manufacturers are overkill to account for the numerous configurations possible and the shitty power supplies like the Raidmax. A Radeon HD7850 only uses something like 100w and a non-overclocked i5 would be like 50w. Nearly all average gaming configurations, like yours, don't surpass 300w during a gaming load.
If you're not overclocking then you can get a core i5 3570 instead of the 3570k and the Coolermaster Hyper 212 would not be necessary.
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Updated Parts List 2
The 3570k is actually cheaper than the 3570, otherwise I made the changes suggested.
+ Show Spoiler +
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I can only set a dynamic vcore if I leave my vcore at stock voltage. (1.1v).
So I'm thinking I should set TB to 46 x multiplier on all cores, and then leave my stock voltage at 1.1, and set my dynamic vcore to 1.28-1.1 which is 0.18.
Sound alright?
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United Kingdom20275 Posts
That's not how offset works. AFAIK, you have your VID numbers that you can check in software - this is often around 1.2 for stock - and offset voltage is added/subtracted from that. VID changes depending on load/frequency etc
If your VID is 1.2 and you set +0.2 offset, you will have 1.4v under load, IIRC. If you set -1.1, you will have 0.1v and i have no idea wtf would happen
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Holy shit. Well I did just that, left vcore at stock (1.1), and set a dynamic vcore to +0.18 (to my original stable of 1.28 for 4.6). I set the multiplier to 34 (stock) and set the TB clock to 46. I left all other settings at auto.
Now, CPU-Z reports 1.1v @ the downclocked 1600mhz (so its down clocking properly, but not undercoating properly). VID was around 0.9. Quick IBT and the voltage jumped from 1.1 to almost 1.4 LOL. Temps went past 90 on 2 cores almost instantly, so I quickly shut down the test. Maybe it's overvolting to account for TB in this case (although I'm not sure about this, as my previous OC settings had a manual vcore of 1.28 which didn't undervolt at the downclocked 1600mhz, although the vid did undervolt properly). Maybe I should turn off PLL?
The thing that doesn't seem to be meshing with what you're saying is, I can't have anything but the stock voltage (1.1v) when I implement a dynamic vcore.
More testing require to feel out the settings. I can't wait til my exams are over. I'm in the middle of an all-nighter right now so no more fucking with my comp
I know I'm being tedious, but I like to understand things thoroughly.
Thanks, ofc, for your time 
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United Kingdom20275 Posts
Offset is an offset from VID. It has nothing to do with the other voltage setting, consider it disabled.
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EPT
