EPTThat's when the battle starts with the cooling. Air cooling in general will be failing fast after that point. My thinking was that the hyper 212 coolers manage to last all throughout that area where the voltage still increases by 0.06 V per 100 MHz step. That means in practice the overclocking result is pretty close to the very large air coolers.
Computer Build Resource Thread - Page 1490
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Ropid
Germany3557 Posts
That's when the battle starts with the cooling. Air cooling in general will be failing fast after that point. My thinking was that the hyper 212 coolers manage to last all throughout that area where the voltage still increases by 0.06 V per 100 MHz step. That means in practice the overclocking result is pretty close to the very large air coolers. | ||
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32
United States163 Posts
I will most likely not wait for Haswell though, I didn't know that about micro center. Thanks both of you, I'll be back. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20275 Posts
My thinking was that the hyper 212 coolers manage to last all throughout that area where the voltage still increases by 0.06 V per 100 MHz step. That means in practice the overclocking result is pretty close to the very large air coolers. That breaks down for me about 0.1v higher than the 212's capabilities. Even so, you can push further The 212+ was great for sandy bridge, that's where it rose to popularity AFAIK - but they are pretty awful for ivy which runs something like 20c hotter at 1.25v and has significantly higher safe voltages | ||
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Gumbi
Ireland463 Posts
On May 16 2013 02:15 Cyro wrote: That breaks down for me about 0.1v higher than the 212's capabilities. Even so, you can push further The 212+ was great for sandy bridge, that's where it rose to popularity AFAIK - but they are pretty awful for ivy which runs something like 20c hotter at 1.25v and has significantly higher safe voltages The 212+ can manage 1.3v max I'd say. My case has poor airflow (which I intend to fix very soon on the arrival of some case fans), and my 3570k is at 1.284v, the hottest core reaches 89 degrees after 20 runs of IBT at max. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20275 Posts
my experiences with the 212 (from a couple of people) showed worse temps, and i only saw temperatures on a whole other level from hr-02 macho and nh-d14. Maybe slight bias though. What ambients are you on? You're in Ireland, so it's still winter i take it (hail here yesterday and it is 8c now) so if you have these kinds of ambients (15c indoors) then it's enough to completely change temps. What frequency do you have on that? And i guess you are quoting software voltage numbers, unless you have some crazy board that lets you set vcore to 3 decimal places? At the very least, there's like a 15c gap between the 212 and hr-02 macho, for like 15 euros. It's silly to not get for a european - i am not sure if availability in US is sorted out yet though | ||
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Wabbit
United States1028 Posts
On May 16 2013 02:48 Cyro wrote:+ Show Spoiler + 89c is too high, if your ambients slip by 4c you will bluescreen, and i've literally never seen a 212+ perform that well before. HT also adds ~10c. my experiences with the 212 (from a couple of people) showed worse temps, and i only saw temperatures on a whole other level from hr-02 macho and nh-d14. Maybe slight bias though. What ambients are you on? You're in Ireland, so it's still winter i take it (hail here yesterday and it is 8c now) so if you have these kinds of ambients (15c indoors) then it's enough to completely change temps. What frequency do you have on that? And i guess you are quoting software voltage numbers, unless you have some crazy board that lets you set vcore to 3 decimal places? At the very least, there's like a 15c gap between the 212 and hr-02 macho, for like 15 euros. It's silly to not get for a european - i am not sure if availability in US is sorted out yet though Thermalright availability in the US is indeed limited, apparently to keep costs down. I'll quote myself from a post I made a little while back. Basically, Amazon FTW On May 01 2013 02:22 Wabbit wrote: | ||
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Gumbi
Ireland463 Posts
On May 16 2013 02:48 Cyro wrote: 89c is too high, if your ambients slip by 4c you will bluescreen, and i've literally never seen a 212+ perform that well before. HT also adds ~10c. my experiences with the 212 (from a couple of people) showed worse temps, and i only saw temperatures on a whole other level from hr-02 macho and nh-d14. Maybe slight bias though. What ambients are you on? You're in Ireland, so it's still winter i take it (hail here yesterday and it is 8c now) so if you have these kinds of ambients (15c indoors) then it's enough to completely change temps At the very least, there's like a 15c gap between the 212 and hr-02 macho, for like 15 euros. It's silly to not get for a european - i am not sure if availability in US is sorted out yet though I'll give you a screenshot later tonight. I'm dying right now doing a project (website). Yes, my ambients aren't particularly high. I assume by slip you mean if they rise by a few degrees? I imagine my ambients are around the 17/18 degree mark. Definitely lower than 20. It's supposed to be almost summer here  I got the Hyper 212+ new a few years ago before they hiked their priced, €21 :D | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20275 Posts
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32
United States163 Posts
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Cyro
United Kingdom20275 Posts
If you're not OC-ing you can opt for a cheaper motherboard as long as it has the features you want, you can't really go wrong with spending $20 on a 212+ even for stock (cooler cpu, less noise) You definately want more than a 7750 if you want to max graphically intensive games on 1920x1080, maybe a 7850. Starcraft 2 is just really GPU light, especially as you increase unit counts Getting a single RAM stick is silly, if that's what you mean, you should always get 2 (unless you want more than 8gb) and RAM speeds are almost irrelevant for performance. It is in some cases (if you care about the last 10% of some applications) but it's complicated. | ||
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Gumbi
Ireland463 Posts
And this is with one case fan, a cheap one too, cost me 2 euro haha. I bought 4 arctic cooling case fans, which push a lot of air (at the cost of loudness - I will use fan control in the BIOS to slow them down ofc). This will help with my GPU temps too (I really want to break 1200 (1250 on air would be godly haha) core on my 7950  but my VRM temps are limiting me). | ||
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Ropid
Germany3557 Posts
There are two Gigabyte motherboards with "D3H" in their name. GA-Z77-D3H and GA-Z77X-D3H. The second one is what you'd choose if you want to explore the limits of the CPU with a bigger cooler. It seems to use a similar design as the very good GA-Z77X-UD3H but is missing some luxury features (power and reset buttons and a debug display). The original part list linked to a GA-Z77-D3H for $113. For that price, there should be a deal on one of the Z77X Gigabyte boards somewhere, especially with the Haswell release around the corner. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20275 Posts
http://i.imgur.com/WTLs6YJ.jpg Look at current temps, dipping below 60. Max is only there because intake was covered, AFAIK, and it's a 13 hour run. You just can't do that on a 212 | ||
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Gumbi
Ireland463 Posts
On May 16 2013 04:54 Cyro wrote: Yea but Gumbi, look at this. http://i.imgur.com/WTLs6YJ.jpg Look at current temps, dipping below 60. Max is only there because intake was covered, AFAIK, and it's a 13 hour run. You just can't do that on a 212 Yes, I won't get those temps on a 13 hour run of Prime. But my temps will be tolerable, and that's all that matters to me. A safe, stable system for gaming are my needs, and those are met. (Insane chip btw, 5ghz on those voltages!!!). I'll do a 30 min IBT run while I eat my dinner and post the results (it's be interesting to see if my case fans wil; help when I receive them - probably not much on the CPU front because my one fan at the moment is pulling air directly from the heatsink area). The results won't be as good as yours (and IBT pushes higher temps), but they will be acceptable. And that's all I ask (without going Belial on you!!! ). | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20275 Posts
It's not my CPU btw, it's somebody who asked a few questions about build on TL, and then pm'd me like a week later, confused about why he was not crashing on 4.5ghz 1.05v | ||
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Gumbi
Ireland463 Posts
On May 16 2013 05:19 Cyro wrote: Yea but the thing is you're limited something like 0.15v lower because of heatsink, and that really sucks IMO. It's not my CPU btw, it's somebody who asked a few questions about build on TL, and then pm'd me like a week later, confused about why he was not crashing on 4.5ghz 1.05v But I do get value for money for euro per MHz overclock, so I've no complaints. I have an remarkable chip, which means a higher end cooler probably won't give me results better than 4.8ghz, or better temps at my current OC - but if my current temps are acceptable I really have no complaints. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20275 Posts
I find it hard to look at it in a way other than ~4.4ghz system vs 4.8ghz system at the same temps - the latter is 9% faster, therefore if it's a 1k system for example, the cooler upgrade is worth $90 - in terms of value. You could say it's less than that - the CPU is only part of the system - but in reality, because singlethreaded performance is such a limited resource, i would put even more value on it. 400mhz at the same temps might be pushing it a bit for a hr-02 macho, but not for a higher end cooler. My main point was though for ivy bridge, go hr-02 macho, because the added performance really counts and it's still cheap. It's not a Sandy Bridge where you can push it much much closer to voltage limits with a 212+ any more - Unless you have a delid and a twin tower heatsink or twin-fan rad you will be screaming for cooling power, which just wasn't the case before. I mean, if you run sandy at 1.4v (which is at the edge of it's limits for relatively short term degradation) then it is like 35c cooler than ivy bridge at 1.55v (a comparable standard) and like 1.25 vs 1.25v, you are running 90c instead of 70c, it's just a whole other game | ||
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Ropid
Germany3557 Posts
That's with a True Spirit 120 so should be about similar performance as the Hyper 212 Evo if reviews are correct. IBT will run at over 80 C. + Show Spoiler + Room temperature is over 20 C. It's with LiquidUltra as thermal paste but fan speed is rather low. There's a 140 mm fan inside the 5.25" drive cage. I regret not buying the Macho as my 3570k seems pretty good and I'd really like its big slow fan, but objectively the smaller cooler really seems to be pretty great. It's too good to replace it. | ||
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Gumbi
Ireland463 Posts
On May 16 2013 06:09 Cyro wrote: You never said what you are running at atm I find it hard to look at it in a way other than ~4.4ghz system vs 4.8ghz system at the same temps - the latter is 9% faster, therefore if it's a 1k system for example, the cooler upgrade is worth $90 - in terms of value. You could say it's less than that - the CPU is only part of the system - but in reality, because singlethreaded performance is such a limited resource, i would put even more value on it. 400mhz at the same temps might be pushing it a bit for a hr-02 macho, but not for a higher end cooler. My main point was though for ivy bridge, go hr-02 macho, because the added performance really counts and it's still cheap. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm saying a Hyper 212 isn't a bad choice. You still get value for money at that price-range. I've attached a pic of temps after a 15 (about 30 mins) run-through of IBT. Max of 89 degrees. So 4.6ghz out of a 22 euro cooler is good value is all I'm saying  But a Macho is probably better for 40 quid as the evo is being sold for 30 in lots of places.![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/vd9y4Se.jpg) | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20275 Posts
And i get what you are saying Gumbi, i just value a 20c temperature drop on CPU at a lot more than 20 euros. Maybe that's personal? And to clarify i am saying i believe hyper 212 used to be a great choice, but in light of other options and ivy bridge running hotter yet still scaling really hard, that it is not as good any more | ||
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