EPTEspecially if you're not waiting until Haswell, it doesn't seem like you're aiming for absolute max performance. i5-3570k is suitable.
Computer Build Resource Thread - Page 1483
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Myrmidon
United States9452 Posts
Especially if you're not waiting until Haswell, it doesn't seem like you're aiming for absolute max performance. i5-3570k is suitable. | ||
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Ropid
Germany3557 Posts
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FlilFlam
Canada109 Posts
On May 08 2013 02:23 Cyro wrote:+ Show Spoiler + It's silly to get a 3770k for streaming though, unless you are trying for extreme settings. 20% more encoding performance doesn't really give you anything, OC'd i5 destroys 1280x720, 60fps / 1920x1080, 30fps stream, and nobody even does >45fps 1920x1080 anyway, which is the only point you would start to notice the HT. Even if you're an extreme user, i would only use over 45fps, even if you had the capability, if you had like 4k or higher upload and was willing to use it, i don't think ive ever seen a legit 1920x1080 stream over 48fps before. To Flilflam, cut i7 (to i5), get an 830 or 840pro ssd (or crucial m4, if it's cheaper, performance difference is not really large) and "obtain" windows from google somewhere. You're up like $200 and can get a 7770 or even a 7850 and then pocket the $50-100 change. I can't really fault anything else there Since i plan to stream at and around 1280x720 at no higher than 30 fps, even if i ever go to 1920x1080, my fps will still be low XD. so i5 it is... The SSD's you recommended are slightly more expensive, but i trust you more than me and it shall be so. I must admit i'm wary of obtaining an OS out there in the scary web, but the incentive is certainly very large. So here is the revised build : + Show Spoiler + CPU: Intel Core i5-3570K 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($229.99 @ Amazon Canada) CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus 76.8 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($25.30 @ DirectCanada) Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z77X-D3H ATX LGA1155 Motherboard ($124.99 @ Canada Computers) Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($66.99 @ Canada Computers) Storage: Crucial M4 128GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($118.98 @ NCIX) Case: BitFenix Merc Beta (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case ($34.99 @ NCIX) Power Supply: Corsair Builder 430W 80 PLUS Certified ATX12V Power Supply ($24.99 @ NCIX) Total: $626.23 This leaves me with a whopping 230 or so left over for a GPU and maybe an OS Decisions decisions... | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20285 Posts
And seriously, on such a budget, skip the OS. I don't even know if we are allowed to say that here, but it's honest AFAIK, 840 is worse than 830, 840 pro is overpriced, and m4 is really solid but usually/sometimes cheaper I have an m4 and it boots in something like 7-9 seconds with skeleton windows install and POST times etc set to skip over very fast, but the samsung ssd's have better benchmarks afaik | ||
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FlilFlam
Canada109 Posts
So assuming i use linux...  ... i have 230 or so for a GPU. So my brain tells me that i should buy a 200+ dollar GPU and basically be able to play any game for the next 3 years (im guessing), but my heart says, "what if you went with a moderate 130-140 dollar GPU right now (it's all you need because you play games on low) and still went for a 3770k so that down the road when you get more upload bandwidth and a bigger monitor you don't have to upgrade?" just throwin it out there  .But if i stick with the i5 then how about this + Show Spoiler + CPU: Intel Core i5-3570K 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($229.99 @ Amazon Canada) CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus 76.8 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($25.30 @ DirectCanada) Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z77X-D3H ATX LGA1155 Motherboard ($124.99 @ Canada Computers) Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($66.99 @ Canada Computers) Storage: Samsung 840 Series 120GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($99.98 @ NCIX) Video Card: Gigabyte Radeon HD 7850 2GB Video Card ($198.33 @ DirectCanada) Case: BitFenix Merc Beta (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case ($34.99 @ NCIX) Power Supply: Corsair Builder 430W 80 PLUS Certified ATX12V Power Supply ($24.99 @ NCIX) Total: $805.56 I still am left with the feeling that i can get by with a cheaper gfx card and still afford the i7. like so + Show Spoiler + CPU: Intel Core i7-3770K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor ($319.99 @ Amazon Canada) CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus 76.8 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($25.30 @ DirectCanada) Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z77X-D3H ATX LGA1155 Motherboard ($124.99 @ Canada Computers) Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($66.99 @ Canada Computers) Storage: Samsung 840 Series 120GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($99.98 @ NCIX) Video Card: XFX Radeon HD 6770 1GB Video Card ($126.34 @ Amazon Canada) Case: BitFenix Merc Beta (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case ($34.99 @ NCIX) Power Supply: Corsair Builder 430W 80 PLUS Certified ATX12V Power Supply ($24.99 @ NCIX) Total: $823.57 Which one would you be happier with if you were given it for christmas ?In all seriousness if you guys think the i7 wont help me then the better GFX card should be pretty much well worth-while, and i will start ordering! (gfx card last to see how much i have to spend on it) my only other concern is if my cooler will be good enough for and OC'd i5 | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20285 Posts
with $90 you can do so much more than "maybe il see a bit more FPS with extreme stream settings" or "i can name a game that will run 10-20% faster on some levels" (because crysis 3 is the only game that comes to mind that actually shows increased performance with ht..) Maxing sc2, on a 3570k+7770 or 3770k+titan, and streaming, you'd have the same FPS on both systems unless my understanding is wrong, or you are using stream settings on the edge on the cpu's capabilities. It doesn't care a bit for hyperthreading, nor for a strong GPU (better gpu will give more fps when you have game on med-max settings... when you are at 10 supply... and then quickly fall to exactly the same fps as a midrange card from 4 generations ago, because singlethreaded cpu limits) and 20% higher CPU power doesn't really do anything in terms of video encoding, it's nice, but as said unless you are pushing the limits of the CPU, it should be literally unnoticable I thought the Crucial m4 might be a cheaper option than the 840, that's why i mentioned it. And i heard the 840 was worse than the 830 and 840 pro 212+ is good for ~1.25-1.3v as far as i know, it depends on your CPU how much you can get with that. Some CPU's will do 4.3ghz (really bad ones), others can do 4.8, some crazy ones would be above 5ghz | ||
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FlilFlam
Canada109 Posts
On May 08 2013 03:40 Cyro wrote: You literally will not see gains or notice the hyperthreading except with extreme settings or in a few cases, all it does is add up to ~20% performance in cases that are niche for a gaming system with $90 you can do so much more than "maybe il see a bit more FPS with extreme stream settings" or "i can name a game that will run 10-20% faster on some levels" (because crysis 3 is the only game that comes to mind that actually shows increased performance with ht..) Maxing sc2, on a 3570k+7770 or 3770k+titan, and streaming, you'd have the same FPS on both systems unless my understanding is wrong, or you are using stream settings on the edge on the cpu's capabilities I thought the Crucial m4 might be a cheaper option than the 840, that's why i mentioned it. And i heard the 840 was worse than the 830 and 840 pro hehe, to you "worse" means something entirely different than to me. Here is what my current hard drive is: http://www.memory4less.com/m4l_itemdetail.aspx?itemid=1440601475 So then my last concerns are whether or not i should buy a better cooler, PSU, and which gfx card is best (if the one i have listed in the above i5 build is for some reason less than ideal) | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20285 Posts
212+ is good for ~1.25-1.3v as far as i know, it depends on your CPU how much you can get with that. Some CPU's will do 4.3ghz (really bad ones), others can do 4.8, some crazy ones would be above 5ghz But if i wasn't clear, you can expect like 4.4-4.5ghz on it PSU should be fine 7770 is better in every way, i think it's even cheaper than that too. | ||
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FlilFlam
Canada109 Posts
But something about CPU's manufacturing is random and some can clock higher than others so in theory i could be throttled by my cooler? Are these the GPU droids you were looking for? http://ca.pcpartpicker.com/part/asus-video-card-hd77702gd5 | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20285 Posts
or http://ca.pcpartpicker.com/part/powercolor-video-card-ax77701gbd5dh if you like rebates etcetc there's quite a few, you shouldn't have to pay $142 for one, you don't need 2gb vram for 1920x1080 (and if you are trying to run 2560x1440, a stronger card is probably appropriate) I've never OC'd before, it's very new to me so tell me if i'm wrong, but an extra cooler is what allows a cpu to run faster than it is designed to on its own because it absorbs heat, and this particular cooler, being good for 1.25v, (worth of heat produced by that amount of extra cpu power consumption?) would allow me to clock safely at around 4.5 Ghz? But something about CPU's manufacturing is random and some can clock higher than others so in theory i could be throttled by my cooler? With current CPU's, you will always be throttled by the cooler pretty much. Some CPU's need less voltage than others for the same clock speed; more voltage = more heat, but also faster wear on the CPU, there's kind of "safe limits" that people use for voltages on the high end, but they are very high for ivybridge (you basically can't kill your cpu with too much voltage unless you have quite extreme cooling and do some extreme stuff, like "delidding" cpu with a hammer+vice or razer blade and using liquid metal thermal paste to drop your temperatures a lot) It's at the point though, where the difference between a 212+ and a more extreme cooler like a noctua nh-d14 is usually only 200-400mhz, and the nh-d14 costs like $60 more or something, and is massive, you need low profile RAM etc to fit under it. I would consider buying a high end heatsink (or a closed loop liquid cooler, if space was a concern - the dual fan width radiators are powerful though usually expensive options - they match or in some cases exceed the cooling potential of the nh-d14 or comparable coolers, while being much much smaller) or at least a hr-02 macho* to be pretty much a no brainer, but 200mhz is pretty important to me. If you havn't overclocked before, running the CPU that last 5% faster is probably not the biggest deal to you, if it is then maybe spending more on cooling is appropriate *A hr-02 macho is a good budget offering in the UK, basically a high end cooler but without the price tag, really quiet too, but it's less available outside of europe i think | ||
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MrCon
France29748 Posts
edit : in fact you save more about 20$, so not sure if it's worth it, sorry TT | ||
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Myrmidon
United States9452 Posts
People are talking about a HD 7770 1GB model, which should be more like $100-110 after rebate. Just a quick look (of these two, I'd take the Gigabyte): http://ncix.ca/products/?sku=74900&promoid=1304 http://ncix.ca/products/?sku=74323&promoid=1304 A better cooler allows for lower temperatures. Temperatures too high make overclocks less stable (more likely for the CPU to produce and error by flipping a bit or something). Higher clock speeds are less stable and increase power draw and temps a bit. Higher voltages increase power draw and thus temperatures by a lot, but make overclocks more stable. Usage at higher temperatures and higher voltages wears down the processor faster. Default Intel settings are set with such incredible margins that practically there is a lot of room to work with, both for stability and long-term wear. Also they're accounting for you using a cheapo cooler, which is small and convenient for their purposes. | ||
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FlilFlam
Canada109 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + CPU: Intel Core i5-3570K 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($229.99 @ Amazon Canada) CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus 76.8 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($25.30 @ DirectCanada) Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z77X-D3H ATX LGA1155 Motherboard ($124.99 @ Canada Computers) Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($66.99 @ Canada Computers) Storage: Samsung 840 Series 120GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($99.98 @ NCIX) Video Card: Gigabyte Radeon HD 7770 GHz Edition 1GB Video Card ($100.00 @ Vuugo) Case: BitFenix Merc Beta (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case ($34.99 @ NCIX) Power Supply: Corsair Builder 430W 80 PLUS Certified ATX12V Power Supply ($24.99 @ NCIX) Total: $707.23 I'm under budget by about 100 dollars... What should i, if anything, improve? edit updated with better deal on video card | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20285 Posts
Makes no sense to get anything higher than a 7770 for sc2, i've benched a GPU half as powerful at twice the resolution and seen identical fps on max vs min settings (physics, effects, reflections aside) in lategame, though it was on a worse CPU, sc2 doesn't really need any graphics power. I'd go so far as to say with Haswell integrated graphics you could run sc2 on low/med 1360x786 really well. Speaking of Haswell, probably appropriate to wait until the first week of june and then get a good cooler (higher tier than the 212+) if 10 or 20% cpu performance is important to you. If not, current tech is good | ||
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MrCon
France29748 Posts
If not...just save them =) Nothing to improve that wouldn't be superfluous imo. (but listen Cyro before me) | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20285 Posts
On May 08 2013 04:16 FlilFlam wrote: So here is the (nearing final i hope) build + Show Spoiler + CPU: Intel Core i5-3570K 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($229.99 @ Amazon Canada) CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus 76.8 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($25.30 @ DirectCanada) Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z77X-D3H ATX LGA1155 Motherboard ($124.99 @ Canada Computers) Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($66.99 @ Canada Computers) Storage: Samsung 840 Series 120GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($99.98 @ NCIX) Video Card: MSI Radeon HD 7770 GHz Edition 1GB Video Card ($113.00 @ Vuugo) Case: BitFenix Merc Beta (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case ($34.99 @ NCIX) Power Supply: Corsair Builder 430W 80 PLUS Certified ATX12V Power Supply ($24.99 @ NCIX) Total: $720.23 (Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.) (Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-05-07 15:13 EDT-0400) I'm under budget by about 100 dollars... What should i, if anything, improve? I would consider going crazy on the CPU cooler, or: bigger SSD, better GPU, 1920x1080 monitor, better looking, maybe better airflow case, etcetc And il say again before you buy or finalize anything, you might want to wait ~4 weeks for Haswell to launch (cpu's) which would be new cpu (i5-4670k i think?), new motherboard (z87 lga1050 socket instead of z77 1055) and by then, some individual pricing on items will probably have changed a bit. It's not the biggest deal to be on a new CPU socket though - it will only last 2 years, before being replaced by the new socket for Skylake - the only "upgrade" on the socket would be a broadwell CPU in a year or so which is a tick - if it's like the last one (sandy bridge to ivy bridge), not more than 5% higher performance, less power usage etc. Performance indications for new cpu's are about ~8% better at stock (which is really low..  ), not much data on overclocked yet, they might be quite a bit better (might) but i don't think they could really be worse. There's rumor of manufacturing improvements translating onto haswell or just easier to overclock architecture or maybe intel fixed the heatspreader issues so average OC could be higher (by as much as 200-500mhz) but there's literally like no solid information at all. It really sucks to have to make buying choices without knowing a thing about performance until NDA lifts, and i have no idea when that will be (launch morning..?)7850 is a super strong GPU for 1360x768. As in, your framerates on max settings on games would be quite a bit higher than running an overclocked 7970ghz or 680 on 1920x1080 | ||
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FlilFlam
Canada109 Posts
Is more RAM worth getting? I could wait and i know all the old parts are likely to drop in price once the new shit comes out, but i just want a new computer so badly, my existing one is a never-ending affair of shame and sub-mediocrity... | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20285 Posts
I've always been fine with 6gb, 4 is maybe a touch low if you are using programs on 2 monitors or keeping lots of things open, it's hard to use more than 8 though unless you try to | ||
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FlilFlam
Canada109 Posts
i'll pocket the extras or put it in a better case or maybe new keyboard. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20285 Posts
7850 is just stronger, more expensive option. Get it if you want a better GPU, or want a 1920x1080 monitor IMO | ||
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