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On April 17 2013 17:15 Belial88 wrote:
PCI 3.0 means nothing. Pick a GPU however you want, but pay no mind to pci 3.0, pci 2.0. It's not utilized at all - for example the 7870 is simply not strong enough to even saturate pci-e 2.0, it's not going to use pci-e 3.0 at all. Maybe in crossfire on a board that's PCI-E 3.0 x16/x4... not sure if a board even exists like that. Maybe in tri-sli? But then the 7870 in tri-sli isn't even strong enough to really cause issues on pci-e 2.0.
On a side note, I don't like the 7870. I'd prefer a gtx 470/480 given the price differences. But it's not so much that I'm recommending you get a 470/480, as much as I'm saying that the 7950 is just an awesome card and would be silly not to buy if you have enough for a 7870.
Like you are not even $50 short of buying a 7950... why would you buy a 7870 instead?
And I'm assuming you plan to play games like bf4 and crysis and bioshock inf? Not many games warrant even the power of the 7870.
The 7870XT makes the 7870 much less of an option these days IMO. In EU it can be bought new for €210. It can be overclocked to the level of a 7950 (and slightly beyond, too, I think). I don't think this card is as popular in the States, is it?
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United Kingdom20322 Posts
On April 17 2013 18:21 Jay3llo wrote:
Would you guys recommend SSD's for OS instead of the usual HDD? Sorry noob question.
Depends, SSD is largely a luxury item. It's a massive luxury though, i'd say if you can afford a good 120gb ssd, then go for it for OS and some games/programs if the money would not be greatly appriciated elsewhere for performance (cpu/gpu etc)
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On April 17 2013 18:21 Jay3llo wrote:
Would you guys recommend SSD's for OS instead of the usual HDD? Sorry noob question.
It depends on who you ask and what you do on the PC in question. For me personally, I want it much larger than simply for the OS. I'd even skip the graphics card to get money for an SSD and then play ten year old games for a few months. This opinion isn't really logical. Even when using the PC for work, at the end of the day, it probably won't have saved any time as most of it is staring and thinking and typing and stuff, not waiting on the HDD. I simply feel the SSD does something very good for my sanity.
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SSD over HDD is very very nice if you can afford it.
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What gpu card is a better choice for performance & pricing. A 7770 or gtx 470
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On April 18 2013 05:56 shandrenas wrote:
What gpu card is a better choice for performance & pricing. A 7770 or gtx 470
470 is old gen. You'd be getting it second hand. It's heavy on juice too, I think. I'd get a 7770 to be honest if it's just for SC2.
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It for maximizing SC2 multi player & WoW lol
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Is this card good?
Gigabyte Radeon HD 7790 2GB GDDR5
And is it better or worse than 7870?
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On April 18 2013 06:19 Arnstein wrote:
Is this card good?
Gigabyte Radeon HD 7790 2GB GDDR5
And is it better or worse than 7870?
7870 is faster. But I'd just go ahead and get a 7870xt if you're interested in a 7870 in the first place.
What are your requirements? What games do you play?
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The thing is that I can't afford the 7870, so now I have to check out cheaper cards. But I'll probably just wait till these cards are so old that I can afford them 
I usually only play SC2, but I will also play Blood Dragon and BioShock Infinite. Some casual BW(obviously that's okay on every card you can find these days), and I play Skyrim.
Edit: What about GTX 650?
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On April 18 2013 05:56 shandrenas wrote:
What gpu card is a better choice for performance & pricing. A 7770 or gtx 470
GTX 470 should be a bit faster but not anything like or close to 50% faster. For those things, at resolutions like 1920x1080 and below, HD 7770 is fine enough.
GTX 470 uses about 3x the power; it's usually much hotter and noisier, so you probably want to avoid it if you can. Just get the HD 7770.
On April 18 2013 06:19 Arnstein wrote:
Is this card good?
Gigabyte Radeon HD 7790 2GB GDDR5
And is it better or worse than 7870?
Both are okay. 7870 > 7850 > 7790. All three of them are usually priced reasonably relative to performance.
But a 2GB VRAM model probably has a price closer to a 1GB 7850. And a 1GB 7850 is better in almost every situation. The extra VRAM would be useful for running future releases with higher-res texture options, maybe if you really like antialiasing yet turn down all other graphics settings, or play at resolutions higher than 1920x1200 but don't mind low shaders and other graphics settings (but want high textures settings). Or some other contrived scenario.
edit: wait not all of the situations above; 7850 has double the ROPs
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On April 18 2013 06:25 Arnstein wrote:The thing is that I can't afford the 7870, so now I have to check out cheaper cards. But I'll probably just wait till these cards are so old that I can afford them I usually only play SC2, but I will also play Blood Dragon and BioShock Infinite. Some casual BW(obviously that's okay on every card you can find these days), and I play Skyrim. Edit: What about GTX 650?
7790 should be good for your needs. Get the 2GB version. 7770 would be OK too, though a bit weaker.
Edit: Didn't mean to say get the 2GB version.
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Whatever you do, don't get plain GTX 650. HD 7770, GTX 650 Ti, HD 7790, HD 7850, GTX 650 Ti Boost are okay. The sweet spot starts with 7770 and ends with 7870. Forget the ones outside that range.
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On April 18 2013 06:39 Myrmidon wrote:
Whatever you do, don't get plain GTX 650. HD 7770, GTX 650 Ti, HD 7790, HD 7850, GTX 650 Ti Boost are okay. The sweet spot starts with 7770 and ends with 7870. Forget the ones outside that range.
Well, the HD, Ti etc versions are as expensive as 7870, so I guess I'll just wait 
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On April 18 2013 06:54 Arnstein wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2013 06:39 Myrmidon wrote:
Whatever you do, don't get plain GTX 650. HD 7770, GTX 650 Ti, HD 7790, HD 7850, GTX 650 Ti Boost are okay. The sweet spot starts with 7770 and ends with 7870. Forget the ones outside that range. Well, the HD, Ti etc versions are as expensive as 7870, so I guess I'll just wait
What are your current system specs and what is your budget? Waiting may well be the correct choice, but if your budget suits we'll pick out an appropriate card for you.
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On April 17 2013 17:34 Arnstein wrote:
The 7870 is 100 dollars cheaper + I get BioShock Infinite, Blood Dragon and Tomb Raider with it. And I can't even afford the 7970, so it's not really an option! But thanks for the tip!
Yes but the 7870, relatively, isn't that powerful. As in, it's not the insane level of power that comes with the 7950/7970, it's not worth getting in my opinion. A GTX 470, 480, or even crossfire/sli on 460s, 7770s, would be wayyy cheaper and the price difference more than makes up the extra power consumption or heat (which really shouldn't be an issue to you unless you are some sort of extreme overclocker).
Would you guys recommend SSD's for OS instead of the usual HDD? Sorry noob question.
Yes. I noticed a bigger difference going from hdd to an old gen 2 ssd, than going from an athlon ii x3 to i7-3770k at 5ghz. While gaming FPS and streaming isn't impacted by storage speeds, chrome, internet browsing, loading files, programs, pictures, general every day usage, is all your SSD.
As in, basically any laptop these days is more than powerful enough for what 99% of people do, but an ssd vs hdd makes a huge difference in speeds. It's faster than 50x in where it counts, that is just makes your computer feel so much faster and better. If you are starved for cash, or rip blurays, sure, some hdd, but there is no reason not to get an SSD in any modern build these days considering you can pay $30 for a terrible, gen1 or gen2 patriot SSD (which is still 20-30x faster than a HDD where it counts, and it'll literally feel 20x faster), and a decent one at $50-60, and a high quality one under $100.
Samsung 830 128gb is really a great ssd to buy for $85... intel 320 if you can't afford that. Just check your current pc to see how much storage you actually use, how much you need.
I was wondering if anyone had any experience with the BitFenix Prodigy.
More specifically, is it a good case if you plan on moving it around once in a while. My current 912 is somewhat of a pain.
Would also appreciate any other insights on the case or if another case would be recommended for my needs.
I was considering using one for a build for a client. I don't know why, but when I saw it in person it just looked really ugly (solidly built though). I decided against it because it looked so terrible. I've seen some great ones when modded though. 912 is an outdated case these days. Are you trying to go for micro-itx? Be aware that 'normal' atx/micro-atx boards will not fit in a case like the prodigy, only mini-itx boards, which are very limited in capability and quality for cost due to their form factor. Prodigy is meant specifically for tiny builds.
If you had a 912, a good modern, budget case these days is an nzxt source, bitfenix mercs or shinobi, pretty much all the modern zalman cases, and corsair carbides.
470 is old gen. You'd be getting it second hand. It's heavy on juice too, I think. I'd get a 7770 to be honest if it's just for SC2.
It's a bit misleading to say the 470 is 'older gen' (and the 7870 is just as 'older gen'). The 5xx series of nvidia cards are fermi, and basically similar architecture if not the exact same chips. GPUs are pumped out over and over - for example, a sandy bridge i5 is way more preferable than an ivy bridge i3, you can't just go by generation. The 470 has all the same features as any 'modern' card has, and even still, very few games at the moment even use DX11 (sc2 is dx9!). You aren't missing out on any critical features by buying an 'older gen' card.
GPU companies simply make a new series every year, regardless of advancements, and then put a higher price tag on a crappier card simply because it's got a fancy 6xx name to it. Ie, the 650 is a crap, overpriced card, that'll perform much worse than 470 or even a 460. In regards to the 4xx series of nvidia cards, the only 'problems' they have is they run hotter and consume more power (but it's not huge, ie its not even a lightbulb of difference, and 7950 still consumes wayy more and is hotter than a 460).
But it's not like they run absurdly hot or anything, for example, my gtx 460, running on the stock twin frozr heatsink with no modifications, stays at 63*C max temp in a warm room, and that's with the fan only at 80%. hardly the 'high heat and power consumption' that people make it out to be. What's most important is performance on a graphics card, of course, and the price, and a 470 performs similarly to a 7870 while costing about half the price. Seems like a no brainer. Put the extra $100 you save into getting a second 470, and walla, you got twice the performance for the same price, or get an i7 instead, or an ssd in raid, or whatever.
Now if you can afford the 7950, definitely, get that. It's a really good card. It's just a sad choice to buy a 7870 at this time. It's like arguing about whether you should buy a first gen i5 or i7, when the first gen i5 is half the cost, and the first gen i7 is only $50 away from an ivy bridge i7-3770k. bad analogy, but my point is either spend just a little more money and get the SIGNIFICANTLY better 7950, which is just an awesome, glorious card, or get a 470. It would be silly to spend so much money on just a 7870.
7770 would be a great card for just SC2, I'd actually say it borders on too powerful for just SC2. Again, it all depends on price though, 7770 performs just slightly better than 460, and a lot weaker than the 470, and the 7770 is generally just slightly cheaper than the 470. But I have seen it at great prices.
As for buying these cards second hand, you don't have to. Geeks.com sells them new, many local retailers will sell them (microcenter, local frys, ncix, in-store). You can also find newegg@ebay and ncix@ebay selling them (second hand? what? buying newegg@ebay is an authorized retailer that is no different than buying from newegg.com, and I've confirmed this with newegg in email to make sure).
Also, these are older gen cards. Any non-6xx series or 79xx series card will not be supported by warranty. So there is no special coverage you get by buying these cards new, than buying them used. Basically they are all 'used', in the sense their lifetimes are over and no longer supported. You will have to check with specific manufacturer's to see if they'll provide any support for a no-longer-produced card, at the moment most companies still provide support for 5xx and 78xx, 4xx and 77xx coverage is spotty (a lot will just give you a newer gen card, if an issue occurs). But these cards have been out for more than 3 years so most of them are no longer covered under warranty, even if you buy them from newegg.com.
Note that I am not advocating you buy these cards second-hand. I'm simply saying that the protections that people assume are in place, are not, for these out-of-production models.
What gpu card is a better choice for performance & pricing. A 7770 or gtx 470
Totally depends on where you are looking to buy the cards. Generally, the GTX 470 is priced better from what I see (7770 is $90-110, 470 is $110-140).
But for example, Geeks.com has the 7770 at $133, which is a decent price, and then they currently are out of stock of the 470 (it will probably be back in stock again soon, they fluctuate in what their stock is daily). An even better price than the 7770 though is the gtx 460 which usually goes for $60-80, but that is a little harder to find.
GTX 470 uses about 3x the power; it's usually much hotter and noisier, so you probably want to avoid it if you can. Just get the HD 7770.
Unless you are an extreme overclocker like me (8 case fans, 5ghz, 1.5v, 1.9v on ram, and other limit-pushing things), the increased heat of a 470 won't impact you. At stock clocks it's not going to go over 70*c on a reference cooler, so it's not even much heat. Even overclocked, it won't be significant heat. You can't just say 'it's hotter' without taking into account the many, many, many different models of the 470 and all the different heatsinks on it. Unless you are some extreme overclocker who cant use many case fans and are pushing high temps in a cramped case, there isn't going to be any difference if you got 5-15*C increased case temps, which a single extra case fan will really go a long way to making a non-issue anyways.
As for the power consumption, you are talking about running an extra lightbulb. It's not really a big difference. The only time it'd be an issue is if you bought a crappy power supply, which would be a problem even if you ran a 7770, it would just be more of an issue with the 470. But as long as you got a decent PSU it wouldn't be an issue (and even then it'd only be an issue with may some high overclocks and lots of peripherals).
This is just my opinion, but we are talking about over a $100 difference in some of these choices for identical performance. And you are going to turn away $100 because your GPU might run at 60*C at max load instead of 55*C, something that the particular heatsink used on the GPU is more of an issue than which GPU chip you are running? I mean, would you rather have an i5 + 7770 or i7 + 470? I think the choice is obvious.
You are making a big deal out of issues that don't matter to most users. The average user, even overclocker or enthusiast, isn't going to care or be affected by slightly higher heat or power consumption. If they did, they wouldn't be asking about buying a 7770 or 7850, theyd be buying a 7950 and there wouldn't be any issue. These sorts of users care about performance and price, they don't care about such minute things as how much a GPU increases case temps or a light bulb extra power consumption. This is coming from the guy who is testing each single timing for 30+ hours on prime95.
And in the end the power consumption and extra heat is extremely minimal considering your GPU is rarely at 100% load.Most of the time it'll be on idle, or low power usage, so any differences in heat and power consumption are minimalized. It might be that the 470 consumes 3x the power, but 99% of the day, you are talking the difference of about 15w due to their difference in idle power consumption.
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United Kingdom20322 Posts
As for the power consumption, you are talking about running an extra lightbulb
You keep stating this =P
Maybe not a big deal on the 460, but you're talking like 150w more under max load for a 480, if i had a 150w lightbulb i would turn it off
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Okay, a heavy lightbulb lol. But that's at max load, even in most games you aren't going to be at 100% utilization most of the time, not to mention sleeping and such. It's ~15w difference in idle, which will be the majority of the day, and on medium-higher loads during gaming it's going to be less than 100w difference. Unless you are doing bitcoin mining or folding@home, the extra (big) lightbulb is offset by being basically half the price.
Although there is a 7850 2GB for $170 with 3 free games on newegg right now. That's actually not a bad deal - sell the 3 games, and with 2gb of VRAM (and maybe the power consumption, okay), it's a decent price.
I just think that if you are going to go for an unsupported, end of life, mid-range card, go for a 470, 460, or 7770 instead, or just ante up a little more money for a 7950 which is just wayyy better. No one recommends the i3, it's a great chip but why would you buy it when the i5 for just a bit more is wayyyy better.
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On April 18 2013 09:33 Belial88 wrote:
Okay, a heavy lightbulb lol. But that's at max load, even in most games you aren't going to be at 100% utilization most of the time, not to mention sleeping and such. It's ~15w difference in idle, which will be the majority of the day, and on medium-higher loads during gaming it's going to be less than 100w difference. Unless you are doing bitcoin mining or folding@home, the extra (big) lightbulb is offset by being basically half the price.
Although there is a 7850 2GB for $170 with 3 free games on newegg right now. That's actually not a bad deal - sell the 3 games, and with 2gb of VRAM (and maybe the power consumption, okay), it's a decent price.
I just think that if you are going to go for an unsupported, end of life, mid-range card, go for a 470, 460, or 7770 instead, or just ante up a little more money for a 7950 which is just wayyy better. No one recommends the i3, it's a great chip but why would you buy it when the i5 for just a bit more is wayyyy better.
I'm not sure how the 7870XT is being priced in the US, but they're really well-priced in EU. They're basically cut down 7950s with 2GB of VRAM. You can get the Joker model for €210, which is less than the price of some 7870s!
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On April 18 2013 09:16 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote + As for the power consumption, you are talking about running an extra lightbulb You keep stating this =P Maybe not a big deal on the 460, but you're talking like 150w more under max load for a 480, if i had a 150w lightbulb i would turn it off
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/UNpRSSc.jpg)
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EPT
