EPT3570k is not better than 3770k single threaded, but then again 3770k is not really better than 3570k either. They are within 1-3% at most, one costs 40% more than the other.
Computer Build Resource Thread - Page 1415
| Forum Index > Tech Support |
When using this resource, please read FragKrag's opening post. The Tech Support forum regulars have helped create countless of desktop systems without any compensation. The least you can do is provide all of the information required for them to help you properly. | ||
|
Cyro
United Kingdom20274 Posts
3570k is not better than 3770k single threaded, but then again 3770k is not really better than 3570k either. They are within 1-3% at most, one costs 40% more than the other. | ||
|
Baozi
United States1191 Posts
If $1000 is overkill, that just sounds like good news to me. I'm just shooting for a machine that will suit my needs for as long as possible. After that, cheaper is better! I'll probably be emulating PS2 games as the most complicated. I was planning on just using an old monitor I have available until I find a good deal on monitors, so I can possibly buy multiple then. I'm completely open to getting an SSD. Does overclocking affect longevity much? I've always disregarded it as it seemed to be beyond what I needed while sacrificing longevity. Am I wrong on this? Sorry for the rather disorganized response. | ||
|
Cyro
United Kingdom20274 Posts
| ||
|
Myrmidon
United States9452 Posts
It's not really as much a better of binary working vs. not working, but wear over time meaning certain clock speeds not being able to be maintained. The processor is the most robust and well-tested computer component you buy in a build, and by far the thing that dies least in servers running at stock, but doing extreme things to it can kill it. I suggest buying at least one decent monitor now. There are rarely extreme sales on the things, at least for models worth getting. | ||
|
Baozi
United States1191 Posts
It also seems to me that getting a mid-range GPU is sufficient, and having the motherboard SLI/CrossFire compatible to just add another card later on if I need to upgrade is best. Am I getting this right? How much should I expect to pay for a CPU cooler? I'll take the monitor suggestion to heart, thanks. | ||
|
hp.Shell
United States2527 Posts
So here's the problem. When playing Minecraft my driver crashes and sometimes java also. They are both updated to the recent versions. This results in a soft reset of the GPU, momentary black screen flicker. Can this damage the GPU? Could this be a problem with my power supply not providing the GPU enough amps? I have no problem running Skyrim, et al. on high settings and I was just wondering what you think the amp requirement is on the GPU before I go spend ~$100 on a new 12V@50A rail. If the GPU is only 18.25A max requirement, should 18A be enough if I don't place the card under 100% load? Also if the PSU is not supplying the GPU enough amps, can that damage the GPU? | ||
|
Craton
United States17232 Posts
On March 17 2013 14:58 Baozi wrote: Alright, then it seems that a 3570K with a moderate overclock and an above-average CPU cooler is the best option (from what I can tell through the jargon). It also seems to me that getting a mid-range GPU is sufficient, and having the motherboard SLI/CrossFire compatible to just add another card later on if I need to upgrade is best. Am I getting this right? How much should I expect to pay for a CPU cooler? I'll take the monitor suggestion to heart, thanks. iirc Hyper 212 EVO is pretty popular for a cheapish aftermarket heatsink. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103099&IsVirtualParent=1 GPUs can go either way. 2-card systems are more prone to micro-stuttering, but it isn't always an issue and it varies from person to person whether they're even bothered by it. I have no issues with my dual setup. In any event, it depends on when you even need to upgrade. If it's a few years later then you'll probably be better off with a new single card rather than adding a second. On March 17 2013 14:58 Baozi wrote: Alright, then it seems that a 3570K with a moderate overclock and an above-average CPU cooler is the best option (from what I can tell through the jargon). It also seems to me that getting a mid-range GPU is sufficient, and having the motherboard SLI/CrossFire compatible to just add another card later on if I need to upgrade is best. Am I getting this right? How much should I expect to pay for a CPU cooler? I'll take the monitor suggestion to heart, thanks. I'm not really sure. I would think you could have each plug connected to a separate rail and be fine. | ||
|
MisterFred
United States2033 Posts
On March 17 2013 13:41 Craton wrote: Aren't you two always saying the 3570 is the best for single-threaded stuff? Benchmarks w/ an i7-3770k vs i5-3570k when you're not using hyperthreading is a case of splitting hairs. A fun academic problem (see above). The i5-3570k is clearly better because it costs $100 less. | ||
|
skyR
Canada13817 Posts
On March 17 2013 15:01 hp.Shell wrote:+ Show Spoiler + Question. I recently made a new build with a GTX 570 (219W maximum). This places it at 18.25A requirement max on the +12V, correct? I read someone say it requires 38A. However, the PSU I have is one from another build back in 2007. The PSU is Silverstone ST75F 750W. It outputs 18A on the 12V1 through 12V4 rails. However given its age I am thinking it is probably time to trade it. So here's the problem. When playing Minecraft my driver crashes and sometimes java also. They are both updated to the recent versions. This results in a soft reset of the GPU, momentary black screen flicker. Can this damage the GPU? Could this be a problem with my power supply not providing the GPU enough amps? I have no problem running Skyrim, et al. on high settings and I was just wondering what you think the amp requirement is on the GPU before I go spend ~$100 on a new 12V@50A rail. If the GPU is only 18.25A max requirement, should 18A be enough if I don't place the card under 100% load? Also if the PSU is not supplying the GPU enough amps, can that damage the GPU? That someone can't read and is quoting the recommended minimum value for the 12v rail for the power supply used for the entire system. ST75F was a quality unit back in the day and is significantly overkill for a GTX 570 so power should not be an issue even with its age. GPU driver crashes are quite common, lots of things can cause it. You can try reseating it, lowering the clocks, and RMAing it as a last resort. Power supplies with multiple 12v rails have their rails split accordingly so don't concern yourself with overloading one rail because it's basically impossible to do with a GTX 570 and modern quality units. If the power supply is not providing enough power than your computer wouldn't even be on. | ||
|
hp.Shell
United States2527 Posts
| ||
|
Cyro
United Kingdom20274 Posts
Just the things like a varying-with-movement-speed-in-a-nonlinear-up-and-down-curve +1-5% acceleration on mouse - pretty much the entire steelseries lineup had it, it's a fatal flaw for a performance enthusiast looking for a good mouse, but the average user wont even notice it. Also comparable to an advanced gamer or even just hardware enthusiast being able to blind test 120hz vs 60hz on monitor while the difference is invisible to most casual gamers etc - its night and day for a competitive FPS player. I'd say microstuttering is a little more of an issue than those things though. Perfect 60fps display is so much smoother than even single-gpu-variance 300fps, if you decrease frametime consistency by literally any amount it will be visible, the only question is how much, and if it's visible enough to blind test yes/no (it is) and then if its enough of a quality-of-life loss to do. Even if i had two cards, i dont think i would ever really use sli/crossfire, three highish end cards and i would consider it though. | ||
|
Myrmidon
United States9452 Posts
If both PCIe power connectors were on the same rail and if the OCP were really set as tight as 18A or thereabouts, I could see a heavy synthetic load from a GTX 570 tripping the protection, even if the power supply could handle the load (it can). However, that would turn the power supply (and thus the computer) off, not really what's happening. So that's not it. I wouldn't suspect the power supply because of the symptoms and especially there being no problems when the graphics card and PSU are under more stress like in Skyrim, but if it's been running 6 years, in a unit with ~80% efficiency, some of those Teapo capacitors could have cooked a bit in the meantime. I wouldn't be shocked if they had or hadn't. It's most probably not going to fix your problems, but if you wanted to retire the ST75F I wouldn't tell you not to. | ||
|
Belial88
United States5217 Posts
So here's the problem. When playing Minecraft my driver crashes and sometimes java also. They are both updated to the recent versions. This results in a soft reset of the GPU, momentary black screen flicker. Can this damage the GPU? No. Could this be a problem with my power supply not providing the GPU enough amps? I have no problem running Skyrim, et al. on high settings and I was just wondering what you think the amp requirement is on the GPU before I go spend ~$100 on a new 12V@50A rail. It's very possible. First, try seeing if you can pass a PSU stress test (occt has one, but basically, a cpu and gpu stress test run at the same time, ie prime95 and furmark/kombustor). If that fails, most likely it's psu, so try seeing what happens if you run a CPU stress test like Prime or IBT (should use less power than GPU). Then try a GPU stress test. Try underclocking and undervolting, see if it stops the issue, and then overclocking/volting and see if that makes it worse, etc. Could this be a problem with my power supply not providing the GPU enough amps? I have no problem running Skyrim, et al. on high settings and I was just wondering what you think the amp requirement is on the GPU before I go spend ~$100 on a new 12V@50A rail. You really shouldn't concern yourself with amps and wattage. It's all about quality > quantity. Any quality unit will provide more than enough power for a single GPU system (the only exception might be bulldozer and a power hungry gpu...). With multi-GPU set-ups, amperage does become a concern but really it's more like you just need a much higher quality PSU. A PSU having multiple rails doesn't mean it can't handle a certain amount of load on one rail or another, it's just an internal thing having to do with the traces on the board and how power is managed. For all intents and purposes on a lower wattage psu and lower end psus (not to say low quality, just not insanely high quality, high performance models in the 700w+ range) it really is not an issue. I didn't really chip in because it could be anything, but driver crashes can definitely happen with a faulty PSU. Run a PSU test, if you pass then hey don't mind anything I've said. | ||
|
Myrmidon
United States9452 Posts
As for multiple +12V rails, if they exist in reality and are not just somebody printing fake numbers on the label, those are managed by OCP trip points. Though multiple +12V rails are getting power from the same place, if the current passing through a certain grouping of connectors connected to a certain rail is sensed to be over a certain amount, that shuts off the power supply. That's what OCP is. (which is not what's happening here, so this is unrelated to any troubleshooting here) Yes, that's an internal thing regarding traces and how power is managed, and that's what causes some power supplies to shut off even when they're not being loaded past their total power rating (in some older power supplies with some more modern systems occasionally, but pretty rare for a new power supply unless you're running crazy GPU overclocks). It's a false alarm gone bad, sometimes. edit: I guess it could be the power supply, but that's not the first thing I'd suspect | ||
|
Cyro
United Kingdom20274 Posts
My bloomfield @3.8-4ghz took 1.27-1.3vcore just fine for 15k hours of uptime (with >85c maxes in stress testing at 4ghz ht on), though most of it was idle (light tasks such as downloading overnight or leaving skype up) and it was quite silly of me to do that, ivy bridge is tolerant of quite a lot higher voltages so i cant imagine it failing for any kind of normal, even heavy use @1.25v, especially if you have good temperatures which shouldnt be too hard at a low voltage like that | ||
|
KapsyL
Sweden704 Posts
I am looking for a second opinion here this is all bought off Komplett since i am swedish Corsair CX 750M, 750W PSU ATX 12V V2.3, 80 Plus Bronze, Modular. 4x 6+2pin PCIe, 8x SATA, 6x Molex Fractal Design Core 3000 Midi Tower Fläktar:1x 140mm Front, 1 x 140mm Topp, 1x 120mm Bak, ATX, mATX, mITX, USB 2.0 Kingston HyperX 3K SSD 120GB 2.5" SATA 6 Gb/s (SATA3.0), 555/510MB/s read/write, SandForce® MSI GeForce GTX 660 2GB PhysX CUDA PCI-Express 3.0, "Twin Frozr III", with Assasin's Creed III Seagate Barracuda® 500GB SATA 6Gb/s (SATA 3.0), 16MB Cache, 7200RPM, 3.5" Intel® Core i5-3570K Processor, Socket-LGA1155, Quad Core, 3.4Ghz, 6MB, Boxed w/fan MSI Z77 MPower, Socket-1155 Kingston DDR3 HyperX 1600MHz 8GB, Kit w/2X HyperX 4GB DDR3, CL9-9-9-27, 240pin The game is just a bonus im not paying anything extra for it. my budget is around 850 euro and this is about 8300 swedish kronor so it fits into my budget quite nicely. i plan on overclocking at some point so ill probably add some sort of cooling then aswell(Ideas?) it will be bought during this summer so prices might have changed by then. we will see i change pc about every 2-3 years depending on how long it lasts for the games i want to play. in this case i just want to play starcraft 2 and maybe counter strike 1.6/global offensive. i am also interested in streaming it a bit. please comment on this and tell me what you think Edit: I have a package deal on some pieces. this is the link http://www.komplett.se/k/ki.aspx?sku=774713#info its in swedish but the parts are in english so you can see which ones. it is 360 euro for those 3 items | ||
|
Cyro
United Kingdom20274 Posts
i plan on overclocking at some point so ill probably add some sort of water cooling then aswell Water cooling is not good unless you spend an amount of money on it that is extremely excessive unless you are doing really high overclocks, some closed loops are worse in cost, noise and cooling performance at the same time vs comparable air coolers.Basically, if you are not an extremely advanced user it is of very little use to you. | ||
|
KapsyL
Sweden704 Posts
On March 17 2013 19:24 Cyro wrote: Water cooling is not good unless you spend an amount of money on it that is extremely excessive unless you are doing really high overclocks, some closed loops are worse in cost, noise and cooling performance at the same time vs comparable air coolers. Basically, if you are not an extremely advanced user it is of very little use to you. ok. what would i need instead? say i overclock just a bit? maybe to 4.0? edited away the water part. thanks for the tip. im far from advanced and i dont need a very big overclock. | ||
|
Cyro
United Kingdom20274 Posts
| ||
|
KapsyL
Sweden704 Posts
 any other comments regarding my "build" | ||
| ||
