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Cyro
United Kingdom20322 Posts
I have the heatsink provided with the cpu The stock heatsink is designed to run things at stock settings and doesnt come close to competing with even the lower end (something like $30) CPU coolers. You cant really overclock with them very well, especially not with an ivy bridge i7 (they run extremely hot compared to some other CPU's) An example of such a cooler would be the Hyper 212 Evo ![[image loading]](http://www.hardwareoverclock.com/kuehler/Coolermaster_Hyper_212-026.jpg) | ||
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Rollin
Australia1552 Posts
On February 04 2013 09:27 Cyro wrote:+ Show Spoiler + I have the heatsink provided with the cpu The stock heatsink is designed to run things at stock settings and doesnt come close to competing with even the lower end (something like $30) CPU coolers. You cant really overclock with them very well, especially not with an ivy bridge i7 (they run extremely hot compared to some other CPU's) An example of such a cooler would be the Hyper 212 Evo If you're overclocking at all you get a heatsink, otherwise there is no point spending an extra $50 on mobo+k version (if 3570k), or an extra $130 for the 3770k + mobo over a xeon 1230v2, for a completely tiny performance gain without a proper cooler. I'm just saying overclocking is just a waste of money with the stock cooler. | ||
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Eskiya23
Netherlands105 Posts
On February 04 2013 13:10 Rollin wrote: If you're overclocking at all you get a heatsink, otherwise there is no point spending an extra $50 on mobo+k version (if 3570k), or an extra $130 for the 3770k + mobo over a xeon 1230v2, for a completely tiny performance gain without a proper cooler. I'm just saying overclocking is just a waste of money with the stock cooler. I will try to buy a proper cooler for the CPU, thanks for the advice ! On a sidenote, are those things loud ? When I was windowshopping at my local pc shop, most of the fans were quite noisy, only 1 out of 10 or so were silent. | ||
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Ata
Canada356 Posts
On February 05 2013 00:48 Eskiya23 wrote: I will try to buy a proper cooler for the CPU, thanks for the advice ! On a sidenote, are those things loud ? When I was windowshopping at my local pc shop, most of the fans were quite noisy, only 1 out of 10 or so were silent. I just wanted to remind you that you are not really future proofing by buying a 3770k over 3570k. If the $~100 is worth the faster encoding time for you then go for it. CPU heatsinks are usually load under load as the fan needs to spin very fast. Now there are models that will be below average in terms of loadness under heavy load and some that are below average when cpu is idel. Most websites that compare heatsinks will be measuing temps/loadness so you can look at those. | ||
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SultanVinegar
United States372 Posts
My old build had AMD Phenom II X6 1055T 2.8Ghz CPU GIGABYTE ATI Radeon HD5750 1 GB DDR5 Kingston HyperX Blu 4GB DDR3 1600MHz CL9 Seagate 1TB LP Serial ATA HD 5900/32MB/SATA-3G (I added a small SSD later on for running the OS) Ultra XBlaster Clear Side Blk Mid-Tower Case Gigabyte 880GM-D2H AMD 880G Socket AM3 Some ThermalTake PSU that I don't remember here are my answers to the questions in the OP What is your budget? Hoping for something under $500 What is your resolution? I would like something 16x9, but I don't need a crazy huge resolution. So 1680x1050? I'm not too sure about this. What are you using it for? Just SC2 is the reason I'm buying it. If it runs some newer or more intensive games that's a plus, but cost is more important. I usually play the game on low or medium settings, but solid fps performance in game is important, especially in team games with lots of units on screen. I don't plan on streaming or anything. What is your upgrade cycle? I won't really have any plans on an upgrade cycle, I'm hoping for a build I can keep just the same throughout the lifespan of sc2. When do you plan on building it? Within the next 2 months Do you plan on overclocking? no Do you need an Operating System? No Do you plan to add a second GPU for SLI or Crossfire? No Where are you buying your parts from? Online, or I have a microcenter nearby. Thanks for any help guys. | ||
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Craton
United States17270 Posts
On February 05 2013 00:48 Eskiya23 wrote: I will try to buy a proper cooler for the CPU, thanks for the advice ! On a sidenote, are those things loud ? When I was windowshopping at my local pc shop, most of the fans were quite noisy, only 1 out of 10 or so were silent. It can vary a lot by fan model as well as the RPM you run the fan at. You can generally replace the heatsink fan if you really want to, but if you're going for a budget cooler then you probably don't want to deal with that. Just look up reviews for the different options and check out the CFM they put out at various RPMs plus the dBA that accompanies each RPM "step" (i.e. the cooling and noise difference between 1200 RPM vs 1500 RPM). If you do go hunting for a replacement fan then also keep in mind that some fans operate better vs resistance than others and a heatsink fan will be pushing or pulling through the cooler. My CNPS9700 at full RPM is very noticabley loud, but at low RPM can't be heard over the rest of my system (which is a faint hum from the other fans, but still very quiet and not something that you consciously notice.) I always use low RPM on it. | ||
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Eskiya23
Netherlands105 Posts
On February 05 2013 08:24 Craton wrote: It can vary a lot by fan model as well as the RPM you run the fan at. You can generally replace the heatsink fan if you really want to, but if you're going for a budget cooler then you probably don't want to deal with that. Just look up reviews for the different options and check out the CFM they put out at various RPMs plus the dBA that accompanies each RPM "step" (i.e. the cooling and noise difference between 1200 RPM vs 1500 RPM). My CNPS9700 at full RPM is very noticabley loud, but at low RPM can't be heard over the rest of my system (which is a faint hum from the other fans, but still very quiet and not something that you consciously notice.) I always use low RPM on it. Thank you for your help ! Once I acquire the whole shabang, I will put a silent cooler in it. Gotta really shop for it Q_Q Once again thanks for all the help to everyone who helped me out with the build ! | ||
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Craton
United States17270 Posts
Thoughts? Unrelated: http://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/779-computer-case-fan-bearing-differences This seems like a useful link for the OP. | ||
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MisterFred
United States2033 Posts
On February 05 2013 07:30 SultanVinegar wrote: + Show Spoiler + Hi guys, I'm looking to start playing again when HOTS comes out. I bought a computer 2 years ago for SC2 that I was pretty happy with, but I sold it about 8 months ago. My old build had AMD Phenom II X6 1055T 2.8Ghz CPU GIGABYTE ATI Radeon HD5750 1 GB DDR5 Kingston HyperX Blu 4GB DDR3 1600MHz CL9 Seagate 1TB LP Serial ATA HD 5900/32MB/SATA-3G (I added a small SSD later on for running the OS) Ultra XBlaster Clear Side Blk Mid-Tower Case Gigabyte 880GM-D2H AMD 880G Socket AM3 Some ThermalTake PSU that I don't remember here are my answers to the questions in the OP What is your budget? Hoping for something under $500 What is your resolution? I would like something 16x9, but I don't need a crazy huge resolution. So 1680x1050? I'm not too sure about this. What are you using it for? Just SC2 is the reason I'm buying it. If it runs some newer or more intensive games that's a plus, but cost is more important. I usually play the game on low or medium settings, but solid fps performance in game is important, especially in team games with lots of units on screen. I don't plan on streaming or anything. What is your upgrade cycle? I won't really have any plans on an upgrade cycle, I'm hoping for a build I can keep just the same throughout the lifespan of sc2. When do you plan on building it? Within the next 2 months Do you plan on overclocking? no Do you need an Operating System? No Do you plan to add a second GPU for SLI or Crossfire? No Where are you buying your parts from? Online, or I have a microcenter nearby. Thanks for any help guys Monitor: I want a very cheap monitor. What should I look for? Your best option would be a cheap IPS or 60hz TN monitor. I suggest going into a store and buying what suits your needs and looks best. Performances between cheaper monitors are all very similar. (Credit Womwomwom) Also, 1680x1050 is 16:10. Intel g2020 ($65) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116886 MSI B75ma-e33 ($53) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130654 2x4gb 1333mhz RAM ($34) http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=55544&vpn=996770&manufacture=Mushkin Enhanced Bit Fenix Merc Alpha ($40) http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=77540&vpn=BFC-MRC-100-KKX1-U3&manufacture=BitFenix&promoid=1292 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371029 ($40) http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=65701&vpn=ST1000DM003&manufacture=Seagate&promoid=1292 ($70) I got less detailed halfway through, as I realized you weren't bulding immediately. There's $200 left in the budget for GPU+monitor. I suggest cheap 7750 or just going with integrated graphics (low graphics quality only). | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20322 Posts
On February 05 2013 09:00 Eskiya23 wrote: Thank you for your help ! Once I acquire the whole shabang, I will put a silent cooler in it. Gotta really shop for it Q_Q Once again thanks for all the help to everyone who helped me out with the build ! "Silent" cooling almost always has lower performance. There are ways to get lower noise at the same performance, but generally performance and noise are an inverse scale - If it's that important to you, there's not much point getting K series CPU, overclocking motherboard, etcetc, because 4.2ghz 1.1v will run past 90c on the stock cooler so you are really looking for something a lot better. The 212 evo is a midrange cooler, if you require that noise is lower you will have to sacrifice either money or cooling performance for it and generally you just cant do much in terms of overclocking a 3770k without at least mid-high end cooling. Its quite unlikely to hit voltage walls until something like 4.6ghz, so until then its a battle of increasing frequencies and dealing with temperatures. If you cant do that or are unwilling to, no overclock. With something like a 2500k its not as big of a deal, but ivy bridge runs lot hotter even at lower voltages and hyperthreading from the i7 adds like 5-10c on top of that. I cheaped out on a low noise cooler for 3770k system that i built and really regretted it. | ||
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Rollin
Australia1552 Posts
On February 05 2013 14:47 Cyro wrote: "Silent" cooling almost always has lower performance. There are ways to get lower noise at the same performance, but generally performance and noise are an inverse scale - If it's that important to you, there's not much point getting K series CPU, overclocking motherboard, etcetc, because 4.2ghz 1.1v will run past 90c on the stock cooler so you are really looking for something a lot better. The 212 evo is a midrange cooler, if you require that noise is lower you will have to sacrifice either money or cooling performance for it and generally you just cant do much in terms of overclocking a 3770k without at least mid-high end cooling. Its quite unlikely to hit voltage walls until something like 4.6ghz, so until then its a battle of increasing frequencies and dealing with temperatures. If you cant do that or are unwilling to, no overclock It's worth mentioning that whatever gpu you get is going to make a LOT more noise than most cpu coolers will if both are under load. If I'm encoding something with my hyper 212+. the noise isn't an issue, but the second I start raping the GPU with something like bf3, the noise is very, very audible (on a palit 560ti). Also idle fan speeds of most cpu coolers are mostly fine for most users, and aren't affected by overclocking. EDIT: maybe something like this if you want a good quiet cpu cooler: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Noctua-NH-D14-/251223949054?pt=US_CPU_Fans_Heatsinks&hash=item3a7e1d3efe Expensive outside ebay. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20322 Posts
Regardless, its going to make more noise than mid-tier CPU cooling EDIT: maybe something like this if you want a good quiet cpu cooler: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Noctua-NH-D14-/251223949054?pt=US_CPU_Fans_Heatsinks&hash=item3a7e1d3efe Expensive outside ebay. This is exactly what i meant when i said you need to sacrifice either money or cooling performance if you want lower noise. NH-D14 does not need fans ramped up to compete with most coolers (and its pretty obvious why) but it's much more expensive and a little complicated as to fitting etc | ||
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Myrmidon
United States9452 Posts
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
In my opinion, choosing a good quiet case is really important for noise, and there really aren't many of those around currently. The graphics card is going to make some noise during gaming, but I really don't think that should be such a big deal. You can buy a version with better cooler but it's probably a better idea to just use lower settings and adjust the fan profile / downclock the card, especially with a good case. A much bigger problem is something like, encoding a bunch of videos at night with the computer in your bedroom. About the graphic card, as an example: If you're alone with your headphones, you'll just play the game at max graphics and have the gaming sound drown out the noise of the graphics card cooler, not really a big deal. If your girlfriend is sleeping on the bed or something, you just turn the graphics settings down and set the fan profile to like 10%, not a big deal if you want to be courteous. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20322 Posts
A much bigger problem is something like, encoding a bunch of videos at night with the computer in your bedroom. I run a midrange air cooler locked at 100% and sleep with PC on most of the time, you get used to it and its not even worth the bother to manually control for me. GPU is a lot nosier though if it's temps are not good and lowering graphics settings in a heavily GPU bound game wont change that, if each frame takes 25% as much GPU time to render you will just run at 100% load anyway, but 4x the framerate. In many games and sc2 especially that is not the case, because you run into CPU bottlenecking at some point (more easily as you lower graphics settings) but in some cases it will be, lowering settings often does not change GPU load and manually locking cooling to lower speeds will just result in temps getting too high if that is the case. I think the best thing to do is just get a decently cooled GPU, have at least a couple of case fans running at low speeds and then work something out for the CPU, for best noise to performance ratios cost aside probably an NH-D14 if it can be fitted ok, then you have one hell of a system that wont make much noise By the way, running Thermalright Macho Rev. A This cooler actually looks really good too Its hard to say if we are going crazy over noise or if it's really important etc without input | ||
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Cattlecruiser
United States340 Posts
I tried to answer as many of the specifics as I could. I am looking to purchase a computer for playing starcraft 2 and the upcoming Rome 2 total war. I wish to spend between 500-1200 for a DESKTOP. I am willing to make minor upgrades, GPU upgrade, but prefer to not have to mess with the power supply because of INEXPERIENCE. So far in my search Acer Predator Desktops are in the lead. http://www.amazon.com/Acer-Predator-AG3620-UR318-Gaming-Desktop/dp/B009B8EA08/ref=pd_sim_sbs_e_5 http://www.amazon.com/Acer-Predator-AG3620-UR308-Gaming-Desktop/dp/B009B8E9ZO/ref=pd_sim_sbs_e_1 PS. I've heard that Building a Desktop is relatively easy. However, setting up the cooling system, power source, motherboard, GPU, CPU, ect. Then purchasing necessary software to put it all together seems like a daunting task. I believe myself to be somewhat competent and somewhat educated compared to the average Joe. Is building a computer a feasible task for myself? | ||
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MisterFred
United States2033 Posts
On February 06 2013 13:10 Cattlecruiser wrote: I apologize if this is too general of a question beforehand, but my searches have led me here. I tried to answer as many of the specifics as I could. I am looking to purchase a computer for playing starcraft 2 and the upcoming Rome 2 total war. I wish to spend between 500-1200 for a DESKTOP. I am willing to make minor upgrades, GPU upgrade, but prefer to not have to mess with the power supply because of INEXPERIENCE. So far in my search Acer Predator Desktops are in the lead. http://www.amazon.com/Acer-Predator-AG3620-UR318-Gaming-Desktop/dp/B009B8EA08/ref=pd_sim_sbs_e_5 http://www.amazon.com/Acer-Predator-AG3620-UR308-Gaming-Desktop/dp/B009B8E9ZO/ref=pd_sim_sbs_e_1 PS. I've heard that Building a Desktop is relatively easy. However, setting up the cooling system, power source, motherboard, GPU, CPU, ect. Then purchasing necessary software to put it all together seems like a daunting task. I believe myself to be somewhat competent and somewhat educated compared to the average Joe. Is building a computer a feasible task for myself? Yes. Building a computer is really, really easy, and not risky (all the parts come with their own warranty). The only semi-hard part is picking what components to buy - but that's why you come here. And even if it seems like a hassle/stressful - it will save you hundreds of dollars. Literally. As for the computer to build - well ask for details when you are close to building it (reason: specials change each week, and if its a while new components may come out). But I can say that looking at the games you want to play, you'll likely be spending at the upper end of your price range if you value high graphics settings. SC2 does NOT take an expensive computer to run well, but the Total War series does, particularly if you want to run it with largest unit sizes and good graphics. When you're getting ready to buy, fill out the questionnaire in the OP in full (it asks important questions like what your monitor is if you're not buying a new one, if you need windows/peripherals, if you're comfortable with overclocking (guessing no), that kind of thing). Then, most likely, a kind person in this thread will respond with a parts list that suits your specific needs & budget. At that point you plug square pegs into square holes and trapezoidal pegs into trapezoidal holes after reading your motherboard's manual, install windows from the CD you purchased, and get a computer with just windows & explorer on it. No bloatware. P.S. both of those Acer destops are terrible buys. They're expensive and only include very low-end video cards which will not produce a very good experience with Rome 2: Total War. Though to be honest, they'll likely be ok for SC2. P.P.S. do you know if they'll be allowing customizeable mods again with Rome 2: Total War? The Total War series has been so disappointing for me ever since Creative Assembly emasculated modders with Empire: Total War. | ||
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skyR
Canada13817 Posts
On February 06 2013 13:10 Cattlecruiser wrote:+ Show Spoiler + I apologize if this is too general of a question beforehand, but my searches have led me here. I tried to answer as many of the specifics as I could. I am looking to purchase a computer for playing starcraft 2 and the upcoming Rome 2 total war. I wish to spend between 500-1200 for a DESKTOP. I am willing to make minor upgrades, GPU upgrade, but prefer to not have to mess with the power supply because of INEXPERIENCE. So far in my search Acer Predator Desktops are in the lead. http://www.amazon.com/Acer-Predator-AG3620-UR318-Gaming-Desktop/dp/B009B8EA08/ref=pd_sim_sbs_e_5 http://www.amazon.com/Acer-Predator-AG3620-UR308-Gaming-Desktop/dp/B009B8E9ZO/ref=pd_sim_sbs_e_1 PS. I've heard that Building a Desktop is relatively easy. However, setting up the cooling system, power source, motherboard, GPU, CPU, ect. Then purchasing necessary software to put it all together seems like a daunting task. I believe myself to be somewhat competent and somewhat educated compared to the average Joe. Is building a computer a feasible task for myself? Yes, building a desktop is easy. There's thousands of videos that guides you through the entire process and hundreds of forums to ask for help. It's just like an expensive lego set? Both the desktops you linked aren't gaming configurations. It has a shitty GPU and the power supply will also be shit as the GPU is shit. | ||
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Craton
United States17270 Posts
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Cattlecruiser
United States340 Posts
On February 06 2013 13:22 MisterFred wrote: Yes. Building a computer is really, really easy, and not risky (all the parts come with their own warranty). The only semi-hard part is picking what components to buy - but that's why you come here. And even if it seems like a hassle/stressful - it will save you hundreds of dollars. Literally. As for the computer to build - well ask for details when you are close to building it (reason: specials change each week, and if its a while new components may come out). But I can say that looking at the games you want to play, you'll likely be spending at the upper end of your price range if you value high graphics settings. SC2 does NOT take an expensive computer to run well, but the Total War series does, particularly if you want to run it with largest unit sizes and good graphics. When you're getting ready to buy, fill out the questionnaire in the OP in full (it asks important questions like what your monitor is if you're not buying a new one, if you need windows/peripherals, if you're comfortable with overclocking (guessing no), that kind of thing). Then, most likely, a kind person in this thread will respond with a parts list that suits your specific needs & budget. At that point you plug square pegs into square holes and trapezoidal pegs into trapezoidal holes after reading your motherboard's manual, install windows from the CD you purchased, and get a computer with just windows & explorer on it. No bloatware. P.S. both of those Acer destops are terrible buys. They're expensive and only include very low-end video cards which will not produce a very good experience with Rome 2: Total War. Though to be honest, they'll likely be ok for SC2. P.P.S. do you know if they'll be allowing customizeable mods again with Rome 2: Total War? The Total War series has been so disappointing for me ever since Creative Assembly emasculated modders with Empire: Total War. Thank you very much. I think I'll post around my spring vacation to possibly get started. How much does peripherals generally cost and are they difficult to install? Are those Acer able to upgraded to the point of playing Rome 2? CA as always allowed some room for modification throughout their titles. Many forums like twcenter.net have multiple modifications with technical support and development teams. From what I've heard the coding is more difficult than Rome and complete modifications aren't available. DarthMod is the best for the recent titles: Shogun 2, Empire I still go back and play Mods for Rome like Europa Barborium and Medieval 2 like Broken Crescent. | ||
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