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On January 03 2013 05:05 Geneq wrote:@Rachnar, @FakePseudo: thanks for the help  Any particular reason you suggest ASRock boards? Gigabyte is my goto brand I can probably fit the Pro-M if it is really better.
It is better as pointed out earlier, dunno about gygabite.... not really recomended usually, for more precision ask Skyr :p
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thx for the quick answer.
I could always salvage parts from previous cpu. Problem is crappy parts went in it ( except for the 5770 card it wasnt meant to be a gaming rig)
I only got 1x4gb ram.
This was why I wanted to go brand new on so many items. Thanks for telling me NCIX could be cheaper :D Ill definitely dump the case and get a proper PSU.
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i7 3770k is on sale for 299 at tigerdirect.. I've been toying with buying parts to build a PC.. do you think its worth upgrading from a i7 950 overclocked to 3.6 and a GTX 460 2GB up to the 3770k and a GTX670 on a new PC? I find myself not really able to stream a game like skyrim or dishonored smoothly on my current setup for some reason and after 2 years of perfectly run games I feel it finally starting to slow down a little... I haven't set a full build out yet so I won't waste your time with specific parts, just figured I'd let people know about the good price on the processor and see if anyone has an opinion on the significance of the upgrade for me. Thanks!
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On December 28 2012 12:25 Womwomwom wrote:Show nested quote +Third, they DID NOT PROPERLY DELID. They just replaced the thermal paste. I see they cited a japanese study (or mentioned, more like), but the true reason delidding results in a drop of 20*C+ on average at higher volt, safe, 24/7 overclocks, is because there is a gap between the IHS and die, not because of the TIM vs Fluxless solder. In order to get anything from delidding, you need to remove the glue sticking the IHS to the PCB. Delidding has shown to be successful even with the intel paste left on, you just have to scrape that glue off. But they did delidd. They removed the heatspreader and damaged the second CPU they tried it on which is the whole point of the Puget example. I already explained why I posted that example yet you're harping on about some crap about how they didn't use use high enough voltages or whatever. Their findings about the effects of delidding is irrelevant. The whole point is that they managed to damage their CPU through delidding and they are certainly people who know how to build a computer. I'm going to warn you once. Tone down the enthusiast grade crap and offer solutions that are easy for someone who doesn't know lot about technology to understand and use. If you want people to use enthusiast/annoying workaround solutions to problems that don't even need to exist, you're welcome to create a new thread for such people. Keep it out of this computer build thread however. Myrmidon in the post above explains my stance on the issue of the unlocked processors.
They did not properly delid. All they did was replace the thermal paste with some standard paste, they didn't use high end paste, and they didn't remove the glue. The reason for IB's high temps is not the thermal paste, it's because there's a large gap between the IHS and die. By removing the glue used for the IHS, you reduce the gap. That's how people get 20*C on average temp drops on IB by delidding, not by changing the thermal paste.
They also tested on just stock voltages. No one who's delidding is going to be running stock voltages. Their tests were just as useless as comparing a hyper 212 evo and nh-d14 on stock voltages, there isn't going to be a difference and the temps aren't going to be high enough to manifest a difference anyways.
They also did not damage their CPU, they just said they did not get temp drops on the 2nd CPU, which is consistent with not removing the glue and using regular thermal paste. The TIM that intel uses on IB actually isn't bad, so replacing it with something low end like they did isn't going to do much (forget what they used, something in the class of as5 or something, which is decent, but not the best even for 'standard' class thermal pastes, keep in mind most people are replacing the thermal paste with something in the class of ic diamond, gelids, coollaboratory).
My only suggestion was buy Sandy bridge or cheapest of IB vs SB (because IB is cheaper at some places actually, sometimes including mobo prices too) if your not going to delid. I never recommended delidding. IB has even been called 'broken' by some and delidding is simply fixing a manufacturing flaw.
If delidding scares you, and of course it can be scary, then IB might not be the best CPU to buy unless you can get it at same or cheaper than SB. It's definitely a problem with IB though, it's why IB has a reputation for running hotter than SB, when technically it actually runs cooler. It's a manufacturing flaw that at worst can be considered a defect.
If you aren't overclocking at all, then stock IB would of course be a superior choice to SB.
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On January 03 2013 05:35 Irre wrote:
i7 3770k is on sale for 299 at tigerdirect.. I've been toying with buying parts to build a PC.. do you think its worth upgrading from a i7 950 overclocked to 3.6 and a GTX 460 2GB up to the 3770k and a GTX670 on a new PC? I find myself not really able to stream a game like skyrim or dishonored smoothly on my current setup for some reason and after 2 years of perfectly run games I feel it finally starting to slow down a little... I haven't set a full build out yet so I won't waste your time with specific parts, just figured I'd let people know about the good price on the processor and see if anyone has an opinion on the significance of the upgrade for me. Thanks!
http://alienbabeltech.com/main/?p=29402&all=1
I don't think it's a big upgrade. Are you having problems just streaming, or playing the games too? Because it's a strong CPU, but your GPU could probably be upgraded.
Have you overclocked your 460? You could stand to get a good 20%, maybe push 25+ if your lucky (might not be possible if you have that much VRAM, generally it's the lower VRAM models that overclock better, ie 768mb vs 1gb, the VRAM gets in the way and im sure dual system would too). Just to be clear, that isn't a 460x2 right? 460's in SLI would be a cheap upgrade (although with a 2gb model that might be too expensive to be worth it).
If your system is starting to slow down, that just could be software issues. I'd try to see if that's the problem first, I don't see why your hardware would just not run as well without manifesting stability issues.
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On January 03 2013 05:29 Rachnar wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2013 05:05 Geneq wrote:@Rachnar, @FakePseudo: thanks for the help Any particular reason you suggest ASRock boards? Gigabyte is my goto brand I can probably fit the Pro-M if it is really better. It is better as pointed out earlier, dunno about gygabite.... not really recomended usually, for more precision ask Skyr :p
Hard to follow without quotes when there's multiple discussions happening and it doesn't help that the website is terrible to navigate. Also not sure why mATX is needed..?
Most (all?) of Gigabyte's lower-end Z77 boards don't offer voltage control so if he's looking at something comparable to a Z77 Extreme4-M then I don't think there are any from Gigabyte. If he's willing to spend the cost of the Asrock Z77 Fatality Pro-M (140€) then the Gigabyte Z77X-UD3H would be a decent option if mATX isn't a requirement. Gigabyte's VRM is better but the USB3 ports provided by VIA are shit (reason why I generally don't recommend Gigabyte since they decide to outfit most of their boards entirely with VIA USB3).
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SLI capable boards that are not m-ATX cost around 30-40€ more, that is the only reason
So indeed if he has the possibility, why not go ATX
the Z77X-UD3H is 135 €
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On January 03 2013 06:22 skyR wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2013 05:29 Rachnar wrote:On January 03 2013 05:05 Geneq wrote:@Rachnar, @FakePseudo: thanks for the help Any particular reason you suggest ASRock boards? Gigabyte is my goto brand I can probably fit the Pro-M if it is really better. It is better as pointed out earlier, dunno about gygabite.... not really recomended usually, for more precision ask Skyr :p Hard to follow without quotes when there's multiple discussions happening and it doesn't help that the website is terrible to navigate. Also not sure why mATX is needed..? Most (all?) of Gigabyte's lower-end Z77 boards don't offer voltage control so if he's looking at something comparable to a Z77 Extreme4-M then I don't think there are any from Gigabyte. If he's willing to spend the cost of the Asrock Z77 Fatality Pro-M (140€) then the Gigabyte Z77X-UD3H would be a decent option if mATX isn't a requirement. Gigabyte's VRM is better but the USB3 ports provided by VIA are shit (reason why I generally don't recommend Gigabyte since they decide to outfit most of their boards entirely with VIA USB3).
I never said mATX is necessary - maybe it was the other guy asking for help what I need is a Z77 board, good for OC, 140€max.
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I think I got confused when iTzSnypah recommended a Fatality Professional-M when there were less expensive ATX boards that offer SLI support.
Besides the Z77X-UD3H, other options would include the Asrock Z77 Extreme4, MSI Z77A-GD55, and ASUS P8Z77-V LK. All are pretty similar, some offering a specific feature not available on the other boards. If you want a specific recommendation from me, I'd pick between the Extreme4 or GD55.
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o wow that pny looks pretty good..... Is the fact that the ram is 2GB really matter? I know some games consume a lot of video RAM for high textures so that's why I was looking at 4GB gtx 670's.
I checked on AandTech and the benchmarks for the 680 is slightly better than the 670, but those are some generic benchmarks. (I also want to stick with nvidia since my luck with ATI in the past was pretty bad.) Should I go with the PNY 680 or one of the EVGA 4GB 670's?
EDIT: Also will be playing with a resolution of 2560x1440 so the vRAM might matter???
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My friend has decided that it is time for a new computer. Below are the information! Thanks!
What is your budget?
$900 - 1,200 USD
What is your resolution?
1920 x 1080
What are you using it for?
Gaming (Mostly SC2 and BF3, but other new games too)
What is your upgrade cycle?
3 years if possible
When do you plan on building it?
Now
Do you plan on overclocking?
Nope
Do you need an Operating System?
Yes
Do you plan to add a second GPU for SLI or Crossfire?
Nope
Where are you buying your parts from?
Primarily from Newegg, Amazon, NCIX, or wherever that can save some money.
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I've decided that because I want to decrease the load on my current gaming computer/make high quality streaming more seamless I want to step up to a 2PC streaming configuration. Before you get into the list I've provided I have a few notes of consideration. First, I have received a new i7-3770 for free. Would it be fine to throw this into my streaming computer, or should I buy an i7-3770k for overclocking capabilities? Second, I have a new GPU for my current gaming computer, so I will be throwing one of my old 570s into this streaming computer.
Here is the OP format for my info:
+ Show Spoiler +What is your budget?$1500, Though the cheaper the better. What is your resolution?1920x1080 What are you using it for?Using it as a 2nd computer only for 2PC streaming setup What is your upgrade cycle?2 Years estimated When do you plan on building it?Now Do you plan on overclocking?Yes Do you need an Operating System?No Do you plan to add a second GPU for SLI or Crossfire?No, and as for GPU I currently am supplying one of my old 570s for this new computer, so suggestions won't be necessary Where are you buying your parts from?www.tigerdirect.comwww.newegg.comAny random computer shop in Akihabara with decent pricing
I'm also planning on using the Avermedia C 127 as a capture card to receive my input from the gaming computer.
I have built computers before, but the super in depth stats and expertise I don't really know much about, so any help is appreciated.
So far I've attempted to come up with this on my own, though not complete:
+ Show Spoiler +
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On January 03 2013 11:57 yokohama wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I've decided that because I want to decrease the load on my current gaming computer/make high quality streaming more seamless I want to step up to a 2PC streaming configuration. Before you get into the list I've provided I have a few notes of consideration. First, I have received a new i7-3770 for free. Would it be fine to throw this into my streaming computer, or should I buy an i7-3770k for overclocking capabilities? Second, I have a new GPU for my current gaming computer, so I will be throwing one of my old 570s into this streaming computer. Here is the OP format for my info: + Show Spoiler +What is your budget?$1500, Though the cheaper the better. What is your resolution?1920x1080 What are you using it for?Using it as a 2nd computer only for 2PC streaming setup What is your upgrade cycle?2 Years estimated When do you plan on building it?Now Do you plan on overclocking?Yes Do you need an Operating System?No Do you plan to add a second GPU for SLI or Crossfire?No, and as for GPU I currently am supplying one of my old 570s for this new computer, so suggestions won't be necessary Where are you buying your parts from?www.tigerdirect.comwww.newegg.comAny random computer shop in Akihabara with decent pricing I'm also planning on using the Avermedia C 127 as a capture card to receive my input from the gaming computer. I have built computers before, but the super in depth stats and expertise I don't really know much about, so any help is appreciated. So far I've attempted to come up with this on my own, though not complete: + Show Spoiler +
HX850 is extreme overkill for a single GPU configuration, plus that is an older HX850 which is overpriced. A Rosewill Capstone 450 for $60 is more than adequate to handle an overclocked 3770 and GTX 570.
16gb of memory and 2133MHz is ridiculous as the gains over 2x4gb 1600MHz is going to be a single digit FPS at best.
P8Z77-V Deluxe is very high-end and unnecessary unless you have a need for the dual NICs or another feature of the board.
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On January 03 2013 13:25 skyR wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2013 11:57 yokohama wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I've decided that because I want to decrease the load on my current gaming computer/make high quality streaming more seamless I want to step up to a 2PC streaming configuration. Before you get into the list I've provided I have a few notes of consideration. First, I have received a new i7-3770 for free. Would it be fine to throw this into my streaming computer, or should I buy an i7-3770k for overclocking capabilities? Second, I have a new GPU for my current gaming computer, so I will be throwing one of my old 570s into this streaming computer. Here is the OP format for my info: + Show Spoiler +What is your budget?$1500, Though the cheaper the better. What is your resolution?1920x1080 What are you using it for?Using it as a 2nd computer only for 2PC streaming setup What is your upgrade cycle?2 Years estimated When do you plan on building it?Now Do you plan on overclocking?Yes Do you need an Operating System?No Do you plan to add a second GPU for SLI or Crossfire?No, and as for GPU I currently am supplying one of my old 570s for this new computer, so suggestions won't be necessary Where are you buying your parts from?www.tigerdirect.comwww.newegg.comAny random computer shop in Akihabara with decent pricing I'm also planning on using the Avermedia C 127 as a capture card to receive my input from the gaming computer. I have built computers before, but the super in depth stats and expertise I don't really know much about, so any help is appreciated. So far I've attempted to come up with this on my own, though not complete: + Show Spoiler + HX850 is extreme overkill for a single GPU configuration, plus that is an older HX850 which is overpriced. A Rosewill Capstone 450 for $60 is more than adequate to handle an overclocked 3770 and GTX 570. 16gb of memory and 2133MHz is ridiculous as the gains over 2x4gb 1600MHz is going to be a single digit FPS at best. P8Z77-V Deluxe is very high-end and unnecessary unless you have a need for the dual NICs or another feature of the board.
Thank you for the reply, just the information I was looking for. I'd like to have the buffer room to turn it into a gaming pc in the future if needed, so i don't mind something overkill for the motherboard. I also have 2 570s, but because I am just building this as a streaming computer for the time being I only see the need to put 1 in because SLI gives me some headaches every now and then. Is 850 still overkill in this situation? As for the RAM, I was assuming that was a bit much, but I've read 2133MHz is preferred for encoding, so should I look for 2x4gb 2133MHz or not even bother?
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I helped my friend build his new machine last month. He got the parts himself though and I think he managed to do extremely well with his budget. All of the parts except for the CPU (which he got when Microcenter had that amazing deal in mid-November) were purchased during the Black Friday week.
i5-2500k - $100
Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus - $15
ASRock Z77 Extreme3 - $100
G.Skill Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 - Free, came with MB
Kingston SH103S3/120G HyperX 120GB - $60
PNY GeForce GTX 560 Ti 1GB - $130
Corsair 400R ATX Mid Tower Case - $60
Corsair Builder Series CX600 600W ATX12V v2.3 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified - $30
$495 total (+ ~$8 in tax for the cpu). My build is slightly nicer than his, but he was just many times more efficient with his money.
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What is your budget?
Preferably under 1k
What is your resolution?
1920x1080
What are you using it for?
I basically only play SC2, DotA 2, and some WoW, I also do some GFX in Photoshop. The main thing I want to be able to do is stream all of the above in the highest possible quality.
What is your upgrade cycle?
At least 3 years but I don't plan on doing anything other than streaming the same games that I do now, I don't typically play any super crazy games and have no problem playing games on lower graphics as long as I can stream in a very high quality.
When do you plan on building it?
ASAP
Do you plan on overclocking?
I don't know how 
Do you need an Operating System?
No
Do you plan to add a second GPU for SLI or Crossfire?
I'm currently using 2 GeForce 9600GT's , they are really old but the fact that I have 2 seem to make them still perform decent and I"m able to play everything still. So I guess I wouldn't mind getting 2x older graphics cards if they would perform better than 1 expensive one -o-
Where are you buying your parts from?
There's a Frys near me that I could check for deals but probably Newegg or Tigerdirect or where ever is cheapest.
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On January 03 2013 16:43 shinyA wrote:Do you plan on overclocking?I don't know how
Are you willing to learn?
I don't know how is not a yes/no.
I'm going to say a mild OC'd i5-3570k (~4.2) will out stream a i7-3770 and cost around the same.
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One of my co-worker wants to upgrade his gaming rig. Though i'd ask you all about it.
Doesn't plan on OC'ing manually, he wants a mobo that does it almost by itself (no fiddling with voltages etc). Resolution is 1920x1080. Wants to play BF3, FarCry3 and other pretty resource intensive games. His budget is under 1k euros.
First thing i said is you don't need 750W PSU, but on the asus website it says you need 700 for that cpu and gpu. I am right to assume it's bullshit ? Tests i could find said that a full system with that cpu under load was pushing maybe 200W (http://www.anandtech.com/show/5276/intel-core-i7-3820-review-285-quadcore-sandy-bridge-e/4).
I also think the CPU is overkill, but he wants the best.
What u all think about the Kingston SSD? Can u also recommend some decent but cheaper cases? Cooler Master so expensive in Europe imo..
Probably order from anobo.de unless there is a better retailer.
MOBO: MSI Z77 MPOWER
Intel Core i7-3820 (3.6 GHz)
Zalman CNPS9900 Max Blue
Kingston HyperX H2O 8 Gb (2 x 4 Go) DDR3 2133 MHz CL11
Kingston HyperX 3K SSD Series 120 Gb
Cooler Master HAF 922
PSU: Corsair AX760 80PLUS Platinum
Asus GTX670-DC2G-4GD5 4 GB
Thx for the help!
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On January 03 2013 21:27 Nizaris wrote:
Doesn't plan on OC'ing manually, he wants a mobo that does it almost by itself (no fiddling with voltages etc).
True automated overclocking you can't really expect, since proper stress-testing is important to do when OCing. If you don't want to raise the voltage, you can typically still gain a fair bit by just upping the multiplier a bit on your regular k-series Intel CPU (more on this later).
Resolution is 1920x1080. Wants to play BF3, FarCry3 and other pretty resource intensive games. His budget is under 1k euros.
The games you mention are GPU-heavy. Games such as SC2 are mostly CPU-heavy. Keep it in mind.
First thing i said is you don't need 750W PSU, but on the asus website it says you need 700 for that cpu and gpu. I am right to assume it's bullshit ? Tests i could find said that a full system with that cpu under load was pushing maybe 200W (http://www.anandtech.com/show/5276/intel-core-i7-3820-review-285-quadcore-sandy-bridge-e/4).
The reason manufacturers post such high wattage requirements is that bad PSUs don't deliver their rated wattage. They can only provide it as a peak power (at best) and not continuously. So component manufacturers have to take users of these PSUs into account and greatly overstate the actual wattage needed for their hardware. A high quality PSU with 400W will run practically any single-GPU system.
I also think the CPU is overkill, but he wants the best.
It's overkill and it's not the best either. The 3820 barely outperforms the i7-2600k & 2700k, which are i7's from the previous generation. A 3770k should provide you with more performance, a similar price and less power consumption. And for gaming it's still overkill. Anything above the i5-3570k is, since games don't tend to use that many parallel threads, which means that the hyperthreading the i7 (pretty much the only difference between i5 and i7 cpus) is wasted.
In addition, the 3820 has a locked multiplier, which makes overclocking more difficult. Unlike the other i5/i7 CPUs, you can change the base-clock frequency to achieve a decent overclock, but the process is more complicated than simply setting the multiplier to 40~42 (on an i5/i7 k-series CPU), stresstesting it and be done with it (which seems to be what your colleague wants in terms of complexity).
What u all think about the Kingston SSD?
Kingston uses SandForce controllers which have a shaky track record. For SSDs, I would go with Crucial or Samsung at the moment.
Can u also recommend some decent but cheaper cases? Cooler Master so expensive in Europe imo..
Depends on what you need really, you can have supersimple cases for 30 euro. Installation won't be as comfortable and the airflow will be a bit less than in better cases, but if you're not planning on switching hardware often and aren't going to push the machine to the limits with overclocking / cooling, such a case would suffice. Also looks play a big role and that's a very personal matter. Do keep in mind that a case can be reused for future computers, so investing in a better quality one and using it for 10 years isn't necessarily bad.
MOBO: MSI Z77 MPOWER
Intel Core i7-3820 (3.6 GHz)
These 2 don't fit together unless a proper hammer is applied. In which case there may be unintended side effects that aren't covered by warranty.
PSU: Corsair AX760 80PLUS Platinum
Overkill. Get a lower wattage model.
Asus GTX670-DC2G-4GD5 4 GB
A 2GB version of the GTX670 will be fine with a single 1920x1080 screen.
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So for a single GPU which video card should i go with?
a Evga 4GB 670 FTW/SC or a PNY 2GB 680?
i will be playing on a 2560x1440 res but i do connect the video card to a Led tv as well as a secondary monitor at times.
thanks in advance.
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EPT
