|
When using this resource, please read FragKrag's opening post. The Tech Support forum regulars have helped create countless of desktop systems without any compensation. The least you can do is provide all of the information required for them to help you properly. |
On May 15 2012 08:18 GunHogz wrote:
Can someone tell me if this computer is good, to stream or play Starcraft in high graphics?
Computer case Nvidea- $109.99,
Video Card Gtx 560 Ti- $189.99
Motherboard DX79TO ATX- $209.98
Processor Intel i5-2400- $179.99
Memory Corsair 8gb- $54.99
DVDRW Sata Lite-on- $29.99
HDD Seagate 500gb Sata- $79.99
Windows 7- $119.99
Swap that mobo out for a H61 chipset (northbridge) and a $50 80plus 400w PSU and you'll be all set.
However... if you want a better bang for your buck ask someone on here to put a parts list together. There's a sweet first page with a guide on how to ask.
|
When selecting parts for a computer - how much should I be worried about compatibility issues? As in how can I avoid buying parts that don't work with each other? Thanks
|
All you need to do is match CPU with motherboard. If it's a 3rd Generation Core processor than you need a 7 series chipset (Z77, Z75, H77, etc). All the motherboards use DDR3 (DDR2 is extremely expensive and hard to find so you can't really fuck this up unless you are trying to fuck it up). PCI-E and SATA is backward and forward compatible so this is irrelevant. Everything else is sort of irrelevant, just use common sense.
|
Hello everyone. I've recently become interested in upgrading my computer system after discovering two things:
1) I primarily play Starcraft II. I mean, I still play other games on my PC, but in the last few months I've found myself playing almost only Starcraft everyday. I was uncertain about how far I wanted to push myself in this game, but I've suddenly become very driven to play the game quite seriously (mostly encouraged by being able to make it to Masters). I currently play on a laptop, and the CPU is a huge bottleneck. I can't max out the game, even with my more-than-decent video card in there, and even with reduced settings I only sometimes get 60FPS, which is what I want. I could lower my resolution, but I've become accustomed and rather fond of the 1920x1080 resolution. It's not currently unplayable or anything (I get 40-50 FPS as long as it's 1v1. Team games are almost unplayable), but I definitely want a better performing system (this 1.73GHz system is not gonna cut it).
TL DR; I play mostly SC II. I want 60FPS or more no matter what at 1920x1080 at maxed out settings.
2) I want to stream. I've had interest in it in the past for various reasons, and I've decided it's something I want to be capable of. I don't need to be able to push out the best stream ever, but it needs to be decent quality and watchable.
Now that being said, I'm a complete idiot when it comes to putting together a computer. That's the reason I ended up with the laptop I have with the less-than-stellar CPU it has. So I asked some friends to help put me on the right track. This is the preliminary result:
http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=27133248
We haven't picked out a power supply or DVD drive yet, mostly cuz I have no idea what a good power supply would be.
I have the OS covered. I have a monitor, keyboard, mouse, headset, etc. I just want to know what exactly I need to build as far as the computer itself.
I want to be as inexpensive as possible, but I'm willing to strain the budget a bit if necessary. I want it to be GOOD more than I want it to be cheap. $1500 is my limit though.
I also don't intend to purchase all the pieces at once. At least not right away. I'm saving up and will probably buy it in 2-3 months. I might buy it in pieces, depending on what sounds like the best idea, but I am undecided at the moment.
Any help with this would be greatly appreciated.
|
Hey everyone! I'm building a PC for the first time and I'm really excited to get rid of my 2006 imac! 
I'm going to be using this PC for gaming, and possibly developing some indie flash games. I am planning to do some overclocking because it sounds awesome and I want to wash the filthy taste of this laggy computer away as quickly as possible!
I just wanted to know if everything here will fit/work together; I've spent hours researching but I'm pretty new to this and motherboard/case compatibility nightmare stories online have me worried!
Also, if anyone has any suggestions on alternate parts that offer the same or better performance for the the same or less than what I'd be paying, please let me know! The build as it stands now is the max I can afford however.
The few things I'm not willing to replace are my selected case, video card, and probably processor (still trying to sift through all the opinions on it over the 2500k for overclocking.) Also I don't need an OS, peripherals, or an optical drive.
Thank you so much, link to parts below!
http://pcpartpicker.com/p/8ghX
|
On May 15 2012 11:54 Nazerath Sypnos wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Hello everyone. I've recently become interested in upgrading my computer system after discovering two things: 1) I primarily play Starcraft II. I mean, I still play other games on my PC, but in the last few months I've found myself playing almost only Starcraft everyday. I was uncertain about how far I wanted to push myself in this game, but I've suddenly become very driven to play the game quite seriously (mostly encouraged by being able to make it to Masters). I currently play on a laptop, and the CPU is a huge bottleneck. I can't max out the game, even with my more-than-decent video card in there, and even with reduced settings I only sometimes get 60FPS, which is what I want. I could lower my resolution, but I've become accustomed and rather fond of the 1920x1080 resolution. It's not currently unplayable or anything (I get 40-50 FPS as long as it's 1v1. Team games are almost unplayable), but I definitely want a better performing system (this 1.73GHz system is not gonna cut it). TL DR; I play mostly SC II. I want 60FPS or more no matter what at 1920x1080 at maxed out settings. 2) I want to stream. I've had interest in it in the past for various reasons, and I've decided it's something I want to be capable of. I don't need to be able to push out the best stream ever, but it needs to be decent quality and watchable. Now that being said, I'm a complete idiot when it comes to putting together a computer. That's the reason I ended up with the laptop I have with the less-than-stellar CPU it has. So I asked some friends to help put me on the right track. This is the preliminary result: http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=27133248We haven't picked out a power supply or DVD drive yet, mostly cuz I have no idea what a good power supply would be. I have the OS covered. I have a monitor, keyboard, mouse, headset, etc. I just want to know what exactly I need to build as far as the computer itself. I want to be as inexpensive as possible, but I'm willing to strain the budget a bit if necessary. I want it to be GOOD more than I want it to be cheap. $1500 is my limit though. I also don't intend to purchase all the pieces at once. At least not right away. I'm saving up and will probably buy it in 2-3 months. I might buy it in pieces, depending on what sounds like the best idea, but I am undecided at the moment. Any help with this would be greatly appreciated.
What you're asking for (60 FPS in every scenario of Starcraft II at 1080p on max) is not possible regardless of how huge your budget is. You would need to travel forward in time to buy your components.
Z68 does not have native support for Ivybridge, you would need a Sandybridge to flash the BIOS for Ivybridge support. You need a Z77 board for the 3570k.
Memory is a waste of money when you don't have a flagship CPU or GPU. Higher frequency and tighter timings cost significantly more but provide negligible improvements. If you want to throw money away, throw it away on the GPU and CPU first.
Starcraft II is CPU dependent so a 7970 is extreme overkill...
For power supply, you're probably looking at a Capstone 450 which is a very good one at an inexpensive price.
DVD drive is next to useless, who cares?
|
On May 15 2012 12:02 mazerr wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Hey everyone! I'm building a PC for the first time and I'm really excited to get rid of my 2006 imac! I'm going to be using this PC for gaming, and possibly developing some indie flash games. I am planning to do some overclocking because it sounds awesome and I want to wash the filthy taste of this laggy computer away as quickly as possible! I just wanted to know if everything here will fit/work together; I've spent hours researching but I'm pretty new to this and motherboard/case compatibility nightmare stories online have me worried! Also, if anyone has any suggestions on alternate parts that offer the same or better performance for the the same or less than what I'd be paying, please let me know! The build as it stands now is the max I can afford however. The few things I'm not willing to replace are my selected case, video card, and probably processor (still trying to sift through all the opinions on it over the 2500k for overclocking.) Also I don't need an OS, peripherals, or an optical drive. Thank you so much, link to parts below! http://pcpartpicker.com/p/8ghX
2133MHz memory is a waste of money. You get like 2 FPS at best for ~$30 over 1333MHz / 1600MHz. Throw money away at GPU and CPU first.
Raidmax PSU is absolute garbage. Capstone 450 blows it away for slightly more: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182066 I guess you want to do SLI so you can get the 550w / 650w Capstone instead.
Why get a 2TB 7200 RPM HDD? You're already getting a SSD... I highly doubt you have 2TB worth of software that requires speed.
|
On May 15 2012 12:08 skyR wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2012 12:02 mazerr wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Hey everyone! I'm building a PC for the first time and I'm really excited to get rid of my 2006 imac! I'm going to be using this PC for gaming, and possibly developing some indie flash games. I am planning to do some overclocking because it sounds awesome and I want to wash the filthy taste of this laggy computer away as quickly as possible! I just wanted to know if everything here will fit/work together; I've spent hours researching but I'm pretty new to this and motherboard/case compatibility nightmare stories online have me worried! Also, if anyone has any suggestions on alternate parts that offer the same or better performance for the the same or less than what I'd be paying, please let me know! The build as it stands now is the max I can afford however. The few things I'm not willing to replace are my selected case, video card, and probably processor (still trying to sift through all the opinions on it over the 2500k for overclocking.) Also I don't need an OS, peripherals, or an optical drive. Thank you so much, link to parts below! http://pcpartpicker.com/p/8ghX 2133MHz memory is a waste of money. You get like 2 FPS at best for ~$30 over 1333MHz / 1600MHz. Throw money away at GPU and CPU first. Raidmax PSU is absolute garbage. Capstone 450 blows it away for slightly more: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182066 I guess you want to do SLI so you can get the 550w / 650w Capstone instead. Why get a 2TB 7200 RPM HDD? You're already getting a SSD... I highly doubt you have 2TB worth of software that requires speed.
Thanks for the reply!
I selected the memory because I saw people raving that it was significantly faster than the 1600 and figured what the hell it's only 20 bucks more. Would you say that those saying that are influenced by a placebo effect?
Can you explain what makes a good/bad PSU? The one you linked me to supplies a lot less wattage and is more expensive!
Regarding getting the 7200 HDD, you'd be surprised! I have a TON of games, in addition to a huge amount of movies, tv shows, music, etc. I've already filled my families external 1TB HDD. The SSD will be for my OS, my commonly used programs, and a few selected games, but for the rest of them I wanted a storage option that has decent space and also decent speed.
|
On May 15 2012 12:25 mazerr wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2012 12:08 skyR wrote:On May 15 2012 12:02 mazerr wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Hey everyone! I'm building a PC for the first time and I'm really excited to get rid of my 2006 imac! I'm going to be using this PC for gaming, and possibly developing some indie flash games. I am planning to do some overclocking because it sounds awesome and I want to wash the filthy taste of this laggy computer away as quickly as possible! I just wanted to know if everything here will fit/work together; I've spent hours researching but I'm pretty new to this and motherboard/case compatibility nightmare stories online have me worried! Also, if anyone has any suggestions on alternate parts that offer the same or better performance for the the same or less than what I'd be paying, please let me know! The build as it stands now is the max I can afford however. The few things I'm not willing to replace are my selected case, video card, and probably processor (still trying to sift through all the opinions on it over the 2500k for overclocking.) Also I don't need an OS, peripherals, or an optical drive. Thank you so much, link to parts below! http://pcpartpicker.com/p/8ghX 2133MHz memory is a waste of money. You get like 2 FPS at best for ~$30 over 1333MHz / 1600MHz. Throw money away at GPU and CPU first. Raidmax PSU is absolute garbage. Capstone 450 blows it away for slightly more: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182066 I guess you want to do SLI so you can get the 550w / 650w Capstone instead. Why get a 2TB 7200 RPM HDD? You're already getting a SSD... I highly doubt you have 2TB worth of software that requires speed. Thanks for the reply! I selected the memory because I saw people raving that it was significantly faster than the 1600 and figured what the hell it's only 20 bucks more. Would you say that those saying that are influenced by a placebo effect? Can you explain what makes a good/bad PSU? The one you linked me to supplies a lot less wattage and is more expensive! Regarding getting the 7200 HDD, you'd be surprised! I have a TON of games, in addition to a huge amount of movies, tv shows, music, etc. I've already filled my families external 1TB HDD. The SSD will be for my OS, my commonly used programs, and a few selected games, but for the rest of them I wanted a storage option that has decent space and also decent speed.
A good/bad psu is not determined by it's "wattage" rating. What makes a good PSU is:
- Its efficiency.
- Its ability to provide the various power voltages well within the specifications for that (there is a +/- percentage value allowed in the specification for the different supply voltages, the closer to the intended value the better).
- Low ripple in the supplied voltages.
- The quality of the internal electrical components, shittier powersupplies might give out or fuck up the voltages with time. Also, you don't want it to randomly catch on fire if there is a power surge or you overload it (it happens).
- The 12V rail voltage is the only measure of power that matters.
A 450W capstone can supply up to ~550W on the 12V rail iirc, it's just labelled as a 450W unit in order to get a better efficiency rating.
A raidmax might be able to do ~2/3 of its rated wattage on the 12V if you're lucky. It's also possible it may blow up or screw up it's internal voltages sometime.
|
Yes it would be the placebo effect. You can see professional reviews on the impact of memory:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4503/sandy-bridge-memory-scaling-choosing-the-best-ddr3
http://techreport.com/articles.x/20377
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/memory/display/sandy-bridge-ddr3.html
Never rely on consumer reviews to determine performance.
What makes a good / bad power supply is the internal components.
Without looking at reviews that does tests and looks at the internals, you can judge whether a power supply is good or bad on a few things. We're use the Rosewill and Raidmax as examples.
You do not look at the wattage that it is advertised for, you look at the label that specifies the amperage it can deliver for each rail. The Rosewill specifies 37a on the 12v rail (which is 37a x 12v = 444w) while the Raidmax only lists 12v1 and 12v2 at 24a each. Power supplies not listing total power for the 12v rails are usually always garbage. Single rail vs multi-rail doesn't matter but good units with multiple rails always lists a max for 12v rails, eg. Seasonic M12II : http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151093 , Earthwatts: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371044
Any power supply with a red switch (meaning it has no APFC) on the back is outdated and hence you shouldn't be buying. Raidmax has the red switch.
Units with a warranty under three years are basically all garbage while most units with a five year or longer warranty are very good. That Raidmax unit has a two year warranty while the Capstone has five years.
Raidmax isn't known to do anything well at all... though Rosewill wasn't much better until a year or so ago. Manufacturers that do it well are highly regarded among reviewers and seen in a lot of systems. If you try and search for a review of that Raidmax unit, you probably won't find any because it's garbage. If you go search for a Corsair or Seasonic, there'll be tons of reviews and you'll see it in almost every other PC.
Price should give it away that it's terrible since you won't find 700w units from the well known brands near the price of the Raidmax...
There's a lot of other more technical things... like the manufacturer (Raidmax is manufactured by Andyson while Capstone is maufactured by Superflower), the amount of connectors, quality of components, electrical performance, etc.
|
On May 15 2012 12:04 skyR wrote:What you're asking for (60 FPS in every scenario of Starcraft II at 1080p on max) is not possible regardless of how huge your budget is. You would need to travel forward in time to buy your components.
Z68 does not have native support for Ivybridge, you would need a Sandybridge to flash the BIOS for Ivybridge support. You need a Z77 board for the 3570k.
Memory is a waste of money when you don't have a flagship CPU or GPU. Higher frequency and tighter timings cost significantly more but provide negligible improvements. If you want to throw money away, throw it away on the GPU and CPU first.
Starcraft II is CPU dependent so a 7970 is extreme overkill...
For power supply, you're probably looking at a Capstone 450 which is a very good one at an inexpensive price.
DVD drive is next to useless, who cares?
Thanks for the response.
Alright. Maybe 60FPS no matter what is a bit much to ask for. I guess as reasonably close to that as one can get.
So I'll add the Capstone 450, look for another mobo that is a Z77, and that will be compatible with Ivy bridge.
So, help me out here for a sec - I gather you're telling me I'm spending a bit much on on the memory, but I don't understand what a flagship CPU/GPU is, so I don't understand WHY it's a waste.
I will also consider doing a bit of a downgrade on the card. I heard a good video card helps with stream quality, but if I am wrong then I guess there's no real reason to get a card that nice.
|
Flagship means the best. In CPU terms, it means getting a $1000 3960x. In GPU terms, it means getting a $1000 GTX 690.
Better memory is a waste of money because you won't see notice the gains if you are playing the game and not recording the FPS number: http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/memory/display/sandy-bridge-ddr3_7.html#sect0 The $30 can go towards a better GPU and CPU which both would provide greater gains than memory.
Streaming is CPU dependent, GPU has nothing to do with it. If you want to improve streaming, get a core i7.
|
|
|
Thank you Rollin and skyR for your responses!
I'm upgrading my PSU to this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151095
and I'm going to most likely get 1600 RAM instead of the 2133.
I have two more questions
One: is lower Cas latency worth paying extra for?
Two: is everything else in my build ok compatibility wise?
Thanks so much for the help!
|
The M12II is just a budget PSU (though from a good manufacturer, and built pretty well), so it's significantly worse than the Capstone, which is a pretty high-end typically $100+ design that somehow sells for much less. At $90 that's overpriced.
If you want something decent that's modular, the PC Power and Cooling Silencer Mk III is just a rebrand of M12II with a different paint job. The 500W unit would be plenty already, and it's $68 before rebate:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817703035
edit: and that's not particularly a good price either if you don't consider the rebate. Antec High Current Gamer Modular is also a rebrand of the M12II, and the 620W is going for $65 on US NCIX, for example:
http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=67325&promoid=1069
No, lower CAS latency doesn't make much difference, just like higher frequency. Didn't you read any of the links? Also note that most kits can probably run a little lower latency or higher frequency than is specified, particularly with extra voltage. The Samsung kit is a particularly good example of that.
|
On May 15 2012 13:57 mazerr wrote:Thank you Rollin and skyR for your responses! I'm upgrading my PSU to this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151095and I'm going to most likely get 1600 RAM instead of the 2133. I have two more questions One: is lower Cas latency worth paying extra for? Two: is everything else in my build ok compatibility wise? Thanks so much for the help!
Latency doesn't matter. Make sure you get 1.5V ram with no stupid huge heatspreaders, as these can get in the way of other components. Generally the cheapest 2x4 1333MHz ram is identical to any other ram for non software-compute based activities.
The build is compatible, but the getting the seasonic over the capstone is unnecessary, and detrimental to power bills, as having a large power supply for a relatively low power consumption system is less efficient. Power supplies generally tend to be most efficient at 50-60% load as far as I can recall, and certainly aren't that good efficiency wise at near full or very light loads.
I'm not sure how good of a deal the mushkin is, skyr will know better.
Pretty sure that's a lot of money to pay for a shitty TN monitor. Consider a dell U2312M or dell U2412M for ~$200 on a good special.
Rest is meh. It'll work.
EDIT: Nice ninja skillz myrm.
|
Hello! I'm interested in building a computer rather than just buying a pre-assembled retail model. However, I'm not particularly well informed about the choosing of computer parts. Some knowledgeable folks seem willing to help in this thread, so I'd appreciate any assistance that could be offered to me. To follow the format set from the OP:
What is your budget?
Approximately $750 - $900 CDN. I can go above this if there's good reason to, but less expense is always good.
What is your resolution?
I don't have a resolution I've strictly used in the past. I use an Toshiba LED 24 inch television as a monitor currently which purports 1920x1080 capability, but the current display I use is 1280x1024. 1280x1024 (or even less) would probably be perfectly fine, but I'm not particularly picky about something like this.
What are you using it for?
I'll be using the CPU for gaming and just typical computer tasks (writing things, internet browsing, etc.) I'd like to be able to play modern games (Diablo III, Skyrim, Dota 2) at good to reasonable settings, and be prepared for any newer releases to at least run on the device. As I said before, if I'm harshly limited by the budget, it can be fiddled with.
What is your upgrade cycle?
It'll probably be around 4 years before I could consider upgrading to a new computer.
When do you plan on building it?
Within the next few weeks.
Do you plan on overclocking?
I have no plans to overclock, as it's not something I'm knowledgeable about doing at all (I do know what it's supposed to accomplish, however). I'm not opposed to learning how to do it and deal with it if there is good reason to, but if there isn't a good reason to, I'd avoid it.
Do you need an Operating System?
I have a copy of Windows 7 Professional 64bit ready to go from a school license. It's what I'd like to use.
Do you plan to add a second GPU for SLI or Crossfire?
Nope, unless there's a very good reason to.
Where are you buying your parts from?
Since I'm unaware of any good local retailers (although they may well exist and if I'm corrected that's fine) I'll be ordering online. I'm located in Ontario, which might impact which retailers I should use. I don't have any preference in where I buy from, I'd just like to maximize the value I receive. ncix.com was mentioned earlier when I looked through the thread, and newegg.com is obviously a popular source too. Anything other reputable dealers would work fine, too.
I have an optical drive I should be able to use from my older computer, and I'd like to stick with the monitor setup I'm using now too. I don't think any of the other parts from my old computer could be saved, however. The PSU is weak, and people I've asked have said the rest isn't really adequate for any newer systems.
If people can help me, I'd appreciate it. If not, I may just return with questions about the values of certain parts or compatibility issues. Either way, thanks in advance for any help!
|
@ Myrmirdon: I actually didn't read the links, because I didn't even notice you had replied! Sorry and thank you!
@ Rollin: Both you and Myrmirdon are saying that 500W should be more than enough, but when I run my parts through a wattage calculator it's recommending slightly above that, and this isn't counting the case fans, or me charging the occasional iPhone or camera, etc. Also I thought TN monitors were better for gaming? Regardless, all the > or = 23'' are out of my price range at the moment.
Thanks for the help again!
|
My reply was the one that contained the links.. all the articles talked about latency...
Wattage calculators are used to sell units and have to account for shitty units... a quality 500w has more than sufficient headroom for an overclocked single GPU configuration.
If you take AC values at face value (without doing AC to DC conversion), a configuration with an overclocked core i7 3930k (which consumes much more power than a core i5 3570k) and a GTX 580 (which consumes much more power than a GTX 670 or any Radeon HD7000 card) is still well under 500w. http://www.anandtech.com/show/5699/nvidia-geforce-gtx-680-review/19
|
On May 15 2012 14:57 skyR wrote:My reply was the one that contained the links.. all the articles talked about latency... Wattage calculators are used to sell units and have to account for shitty units... a quality 500w has more than sufficient headroom for an overclocked single GPU configuration. If you take AC values at face value (without doing AC to DC conversion), a configuration with an overclocked core i7 3930k (which consumes much more power than a core i5 3570k) and a GTX 580 (which consumes much more power than a GTX 670 or any Radeon HD7000 card) is still well under 500w. http://www.anandtech.com/show/5699/nvidia-geforce-gtx-680-review/19
Oh, well I feel stupid now :/ Dunno how I missed that.
Thanks so much for your info on wattage! I feel SO relieved knowing I can get a decent PSU without spending $100+
So...based on the link above, the power requirements for video cards and cpus is going DOWN? why is that? I would have thought it'd be the reverse? Will there ever be a need to 'upgrade' a PSU then, besides failure?
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
