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On July 01 2009 06:47 armed_ wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2009 06:42 theqat wrote:
I'm not talking about that, though I understand your confusion. I'm talking about the possibility of a game menu that says "Single Player" and "Battle.net". If you click Battle.net, Battle.net challenges your game for a legal key. If it is successful, you get the option of a pure LAN mode immediately with no further internet connection required. You also get the option to continue to full-on Battle.net.
Again, this isn't what they've said they'll do, but it's conceivable. Karune has seen at least one post suggesting it and has said he will forward that idea to the developers. Yeah, you missed my edit. ;p Really that doesn't solve anything besides very intermittent internet access, since you still have to set it up through their servers. It'll still likely be too much trouble for LAN cafe owners to bother with, still makes it impossible for anyone without internet. And really, the number of people who have an internet connection to get into that LAN mode in the first place yet wouldn't be able to set up all of their games individually through the servers is very small.
I agree. I just see this as the most conceivable outcome. It seems very, very unlikely that they will move LAN mode out from behind some kind of legitimacy test if they reintroduce LAN at all.
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On July 01 2009 06:31 Zzoram wrote:
I think you guys are overestimating the money in eSports. I think stopping millions of Chinese and Russians from playing pirated copies online, and converting even some percentage of them to paying customers is worth much more money.
Hmm, i really don't know about that. I read somewhere KTF put $50million into starcraft, and that was a while ago. You have to consider a lot of things. 2 TV channels= a lot of money, stage matches, the amount of pro gamers and their salaries. Jaedong has probably earned about 10,000 copies of starcraft alone.
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Zzoram. I don't mean to pick on you man but kinda an angry day i suppose. You really have no idea what you are talking about on multiple accounts.
1.) saying there is not much money in E sports is a freebie. Top gamers make 200k+ a year now and its growing!
2.) No one intelligent is arguing poor people should be able to play for free. What we are arguing is why take away a feature JUST so they can make money? It really is quite frustrating when money> people
3.) Saying a company increasing profit is a good idea is a debatable issue. You obviously haven't researched or you would have typed an educated reason why this is true. Have you heard of a monopoly control? or the recent crisis on wall street? or the one before that? or the Industrial revolution? or slavery? I can go on but you get the point. All of these came out of greed. Saying Blizzard isn't greedy in the evil sense is saying blizzard isn't greedy at all. Greed isnt good or evil(Like anything else), but Blizzard is taking away from the rightful and the unrightful to make money. Period. That is wrong. That sends the message: "Yes we want our customers to like us...... so you can give us money."
Anyway, just saying you have a very simple minded "I'm right, your wrong" attitude(I do often as well) and did the beta not start yet????
Edit:Lol I took out a rather aggressive message that i wrote becaus e i knew you would type this... these are large scale examples of how greed is used for wrong. Sure maybe it isn't going to make the same impact, but its the same idea. I just wish companies said fuck it and made a game. People WILL crack it and WILL make hamachi like programs. It's just a reality check when you realize Blizzard only makes good games because they like the money...
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On July 01 2009 06:57 Bebop Berserker wrote:
Zzoram. I dont mean to pick on you manbut kinda an angry day i suppose. You really have no idea what you are talking about on multiple accounts.
1.) saying there is not much money in Esports is a freebie. Top gamers make 200k+ a year now and its growing!
2.) No one intelligent is arguing poor people should be able to play for free. What we are arguing is why take away a feature JUST so they can make money? It really is quite frustrating when money> people
3.) Saying a company increasing profit is a good idea is a debatable issue. You obviosly havent reasearched or you would have typed an educated reason why this is true. Have you heard of a monopoly control? or the recent crisis on wall street? or the one before that? or the Industrial revolution? or slavery? I can go on but you get th epoint. All of these came out of greed. Saying Blizzard isn't greedy in the evil sense is saying blizzard isn't greedy at all. Greed isnt good or evil(Like anything else), but Blizzard is taking away from the rightful and the unrightful to make money. Period. THat is worng. That sends the message: "Yes we want our customers to like us...... so you can give us money."
Anyway, just saying ou have a very simple minded "I'm right, your wrong" attitude(I do often as well) and did the beta not start yet????
I would like them to reinclude LAN, I know why they don't want to, and I can accept that. Blizzard isn't stealing candy from babies, or enslaving a race of people (I suppose you could make a case for Koreans, lol). They're not including LAN from a game which will have a robust Battle.net2 instead. They don't have a monopoly on games, there are plenty of alternatives if you prefer them.
I just think you guys are going way too far. Blizzard does not equate to slave traders because their next game won't have LAN.
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On July 01 2009 07:00 Zzoram wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2009 06:57 Bebop Berserker wrote:
Zzoram. I dont mean to pick on you manbut kinda an angry day i suppose. You really have no idea what you are talking about on multiple accounts.
1.) saying there is not much money in Esports is a freebie. Top gamers make 200k+ a year now and its growing!
2.) No one intelligent is arguing poor people should be able to play for free. What we are arguing is why take away a feature JUST so they can make money? It really is quite frustrating when money> people
3.) Saying a company increasing profit is a good idea is a debatable issue. You obviosly havent reasearched or you would have typed an educated reason why this is true. Have you heard of a monopoly control? or the recent crisis on wall street? or the one before that? or the Industrial revolution? or slavery? I can go on but you get th epoint. All of these came out of greed. Saying Blizzard isn't greedy in the evil sense is saying blizzard isn't greedy at all. Greed isnt good or evil(Like anything else), but Blizzard is taking away from the rightful and the unrightful to make money. Period. THat is worng. That sends the message: "Yes we want our customers to like us...... so you can give us money."
Anyway, just saying ou have a very simple minded "I'm right, your wrong" attitude(I do often as well) and did the beta not start yet???? I would like them to reinclude LAN, I know why they don't want to, and I can accept that. Blizzard isn't stealing candy from babies, or enslaving a race of people (I suppose you could make a case for Koreans, lol). They're not including LAN from a game which will have a robust Battle.net2 instead. They don't have a monopoly on games, there are plenty of alternatives if you prefer them. I just think you guys are going way too far. Blizzard does not equate to slave traders because their next game won't have LAN.
Cut the Strawman talk already. Hardly anyone is comparing Blizzard to that extreme. We're justified to being upset over this decision, and oftentimes the best way to get through to a company is to make noise.
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On July 01 2009 07:03 Spawkuring wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2009 07:00 Zzoram wrote:On July 01 2009 06:57 Bebop Berserker wrote:
Zzoram. I dont mean to pick on you manbut kinda an angry day i suppose. You really have no idea what you are talking about on multiple accounts.
1.) saying there is not much money in Esports is a freebie. Top gamers make 200k+ a year now and its growing!
2.) No one intelligent is arguing poor people should be able to play for free. What we are arguing is why take away a feature JUST so they can make money? It really is quite frustrating when money> people
3.) Saying a company increasing profit is a good idea is a debatable issue. You obviosly havent reasearched or you would have typed an educated reason why this is true. Have you heard of a monopoly control? or the recent crisis on wall street? or the one before that? or the Industrial revolution? or slavery? I can go on but you get th epoint. All of these came out of greed. Saying Blizzard isn't greedy in the evil sense is saying blizzard isn't greedy at all. Greed isnt good or evil(Like anything else), but Blizzard is taking away from the rightful and the unrightful to make money. Period. THat is worng. That sends the message: "Yes we want our customers to like us...... so you can give us money."
Anyway, just saying ou have a very simple minded "I'm right, your wrong" attitude(I do often as well) and did the beta not start yet???? I would like them to reinclude LAN, I know why they don't want to, and I can accept that. Blizzard isn't stealing candy from babies, or enslaving a race of people (I suppose you could make a case for Koreans, lol). They're not including LAN from a game which will have a robust Battle.net2 instead. They don't have a monopoly on games, there are plenty of alternatives if you prefer them. I just think you guys are going way too far. Blizzard does not equate to slave traders because their next game won't have LAN. Cut the Strawman talk already. Hardly anyone is comparing Blizzard to that extreme. We're justified to being upset over this decision, and oftentimes the best way to get through to a company is to make noise.
Ok, people are upset about no LAN. I just don't believe they will add it in no matter how loudly people complain, because most people won't care, and because of the piracy. Personally, I think a good Battle.net2 is better than LAN, if it works as well as it should. I would want all my games to add to my Achievements and stats.
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They were probably going to confirm the lack of LAN and then reveal what would replace it (on the press tour) but since there was a bug/problem and they couldn't talk about Battlenet 2 anymore, we were left with "There is no LAN".
I'm not worried, Blizzard is not stupid, we just have to wait and see what their plans are.
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WoW is online only, with the servers having to run the game world(and not just connect people with each other) and there are still lots of private servers for it, so how the hell would they stop people from pirating SC2 by removing LAN? This will just piss off potential customers.
And this is quite a change from what they said in older SC2 interviews, which was that they don't consider piracy a serious problem and it didn't even come up as a topic in their meetings(it was during blizzcon 2007 or 2008).
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Damn...I even checked this thread to see if it had already been posted.
Well anyway, thanks for updating the title.
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I really don't understand the issue.
Blizzard is putting in millions of dollars to make a superb game, now they want people to pay for this product instead of illegaly downloading it just to play lan/SP. Business is cruel, isn't it?
Stability and latency will be on par or even better than current sc1/lan latency. There is no doubt about that fact.
If you crash playing a p2p game, don't blame blizzard for making a logical desicion and removing LAN option and thus reducing piracy, blame your internet provider for crying out loud.
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Seriously, I can't believe how many people are OUTRAGED over this.
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On July 01 2009 07:00 Zzoram wrote:
They're not including LAN from a game which will have a robust Battle.net2 instead. They don't have a monopoly on games, there are plenty of alternatives if you prefer them. You do, at least, understand that this move is aimed to increase monopoly? It takes away from your "plenty of alternatives if you prefer them", right?
With LAN -> competition with pirate servers
With no LAN -> no competition with pirate servers
You also understand that the only reason why many people who have sc1 cd-keys, play on ICCup instead of bnet because it's better? We have that option because of competition. Blizzard wants to remove that competition.
- "Oh but Blizzard will make something better. That is why!"
If there ONLY goal was to make something better, they would make something better and people would use their service because it's better. If bnet was just as free as playing ICCup on a pirate copy, but bnet was better. -> Then people would use bnet. We don't, because bnet sucks.
That would be competition.
But since pirate copies are free. Blizzard cannot compete with that. They would not make any money if their service was only "better", but free.
If we cannot compete with their price. How do we solve this? -> Monopoly. They remove the competition. They remove your "plenty of alternatives if you prefer them".
It's that simple. All I'm trying to say is that this is a move to make more profit only. Not a move to deliver a better product as they advertise. If their only goal was to make a better product they would simply do it without removing LAN. One thing don't interfere the other.
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On July 01 2009 03:30 Klogon wrote:
It'll probably work like Steam. You authenticate your version with the main server, and as long as you are connected to that, you're allowed to play on LAN.
hopefully this is right, it would make the most sense. But why would blizzard just straight up say there is NO LAN anymore all together. That is kind of dick.
They are either trying to gain publicity from this stunt or using it as some sort of marketing research to see how the community reacts to such a bold claim.
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MURICA15980 Posts
On July 01 2009 03:57 nttea wrote:
I personally don't believe in intellectual property, once you make something that is an idea it belongs to the world and not to any person or organisation. I will buy my sc2 but i don't mind people being able to pirate it, more players to play!.
This is usually how people who lack the talent to have ideas original enough to be called "intellectual property" feel. If you're going to steal the damn thing, at least acknowledge you're doing it. : /
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Removing lan will definitely make some pirates buy a real copy of SC2. But how much more copies will they sell and will it be worth it to piss off people who play at lan parties. Seriously how much more money will they expect to earn.
They have a right to squeeze whatever profits there is out of SC2 but it's really unethical when they start hurting the customers.
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Whenever someone makes a cool product but limits it such that it can only work with their service or cannot be fixed by the user, I'm really sad. Its not a design that yields a long lasting and well loved product, it is a design that yields sales and profit. Its just like planned obsolescence.
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motbob
United States12546 Posts
On July 01 2009 10:19 -fj. wrote:
Whenever someone makes a cool product but limits it such that it can only work with their service or cannot be fixed by the user, I'm really sad. Its not a design that yields a long lasting and well loved product, it is a design that yields sales and profit. Its just like planned obsolescence.
Steam is an example of a product that strikes a good balance between the need to satisfy customers and the need to keep people from being able to get your stuff for free. I don't see why Battle.net 2.0 can't do that as well.
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On July 01 2009 03:23 Eury wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2009 03:20 Boundz(DarKo) wrote:
Sad but interesting information... funny how there's always something to blame China about. Well, it isn't only China. Just check the amount of WC 3 players on Garena, many of them don't have a legal copy.
not to mention the millions of users in ... everywhere else... that have a pirated copy of SC and are playing on battle net.
Maybe we should all delete battlenet in SC2 as well.
It wont be hard to set up fake online servers. Even WOW can do it. This is a stupid thread.
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motbob
United States12546 Posts
On July 01 2009 10:27 Polyphasic wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2009 03:23 Eury wrote:On July 01 2009 03:20 Boundz(DarKo) wrote:
Sad but interesting information... funny how there's always something to blame China about. Well, it isn't only China. Just check the amount of WC 3 players on Garena, many of them don't have a legal copy. not to mention the millions of users in ... everywhere else... that have a pirated copy of SC and are playing on battle net. Maybe we should all delete battlenet in SC2 as well. It wont be hard to set up fake online servers. Even WOW can do it. This is a stupid thread.
Wait, how do you play pirated Starcraft on battle.net?
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On July 01 2009 06:57 Bebop Berserker wrote:
2.) No one intelligent is arguing poor people should be able to play for free. What we are arguing is why take away a feature JUST so they can make money? It really is quite frustrating when money> people
What we are arguing is why take away a feature JUST so they don't loose money through theft?
3.) Saying a company increasing profit is a good idea is a debatable issue.
Saying a company putting in place security measures that prevent a loss of profit is a good idea is a debatable issue. Is it really? And talk to anyone from any industry and you will see that with increased security there is always decreased usability.
Have you heard of a monopoly control? Monopoly control? Of their own product? Yeah... I think I would want that too. You relalise that the stats from every game played via battle.net 2.0 are recorded don't you? By playing on a private server you are taking away from blizzards sensus data. If you know anything about big business you know how much sensus data is worth. Not to mention that it is also used internally to help create better balance and probably influence the changes made with each expansion. Private (unsanctioned) servers may not have been illegal in SC1 but I am willing to bet that they are in SC2 because blizzard has so much more to loose from their use. Information is money.
or the recent crisis on wall street? or the one before that? or the Industrial revolution? or slavery? I can go on but you get the point.
...
Saying Blizzard isn't greedy in the evil sense is saying blizzard isn't greedy at all. Greed isnt good or evil(Like anything else)
So if I don't think their greedy in the evil sense their not greedy at all... but greed isn't good or evil? What?
but Blizzard is taking away from the rightful and the unrightful to make money. Period.
How are they taking away anyones right to make money? Who's making money from LAN that won't make money without it? Do you believe that these people should have the right to make money off SC without paying some kind of royalty to blizzard (For example... In the form of sanctioned dedicated servers for compettitions? Because I don't.)
That sends the message: "Yes we want our customers to like us...... so you can give us money."
If you ever make a business of any kind. Yes. You will want your customers to like you, so you can make money. If you don't then GL with your government bailout when you fail.
Honestly... all this is getting way out of hand. It's their game and they should be able to do what they want with it without the fear of being shanked at every turn. If you pirate they loose, if you make a dedicated server they loose... If you have a legitimate reason why they should keep LAN, or even just want to say 'I hate that they removed it' then go ahead. But don't start this wall street crisis crap and try to make at least a little sense.
Edit: On a side note... I want them to include LAN. And I am a little pissed off that I will have to play via battle.net between the 3 comps here. But I support (or at least accept) their decision, and will still love the game.
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