While Starcraft 2 adds some new and badass units and spells, it also removes some old stuff for whatever reasons. This poll is just to see what you guys think about the old units and new ones as well. I will add polls for rest of the races if the feedbacks were good. You guys can vote whatever time you want just don't spam votes.
Poll: Old Terran spells that you missed (Vote): Lockdown (Vote): Spider Mines (Vote): D-Marix (Vote): Irridiate (Vote): EMP Shockwave
Poll: Old Terran units that you missed (Vote): Firebats (Vote): Medics (Vote): Science Vessel (Vote): Vulture (Vote): Old Siege Tank (Vote): Goliaths
Poll: New Terran units that's a badass (Vote): Marauders (Vote): Reaper (Vote): Thor (Vote): Banshee (Vote): New Siege Tank (Vote): Hellion (Vote): New Battle Cruiser (Vote): Viking (Vote): Medivac dropship (Vote): Mules (Vote): Nighthawk
Poll: New Terran spell that's a badass (Vote): Hunter-Seeker Missile (Vote): Auto-Turret (Vote): D-8 Charges (Vote): Missle Barrage (Vote): New D-Matrix (Vote): Mule Drop (Vote): Snipe
Poll: Want me to add Protoss and Zerg as well? (Vote): yah sure whatever (Vote): fuckit dont bother
It's actually one of the battlecruiser upgradable spells. You can pick between three upgrades: the yamato, the aoe lasers, and the defense matrix. So the BC can only Dmatrix itself.
On April 18 2009 07:33 Hammy wrote: It's actually one of the battlecruiser upgradable spells. You can pick between three upgrades: the yamato, the aoe lasers, and the defense matrix. So the BC can only Dmatrix itself.
ohh
SC2 definitely has a LOT of neat things in late game
leads me to think money maps would be quite fun.. given that its possible to make them
I find it funny you use the past tense - "missed" - when sc2 hasn't even come out and won't come out for quite a few months -.- I have the feeling MoNSteR_K4iSeR you hardly played sc1 @ all.
Good: Nydus wurm and overlord/overseer upgrades. Though I don't like changing transportation to the wurm much the thing is so badass I really can live with it.
Bad: Grounding the queen and repurposing the unit. I think they should have just gave the air queen better abilities.
Ugly: ZERGLINGS HAVE MOTHERFUCKING WINGS AFDSJFHDASHFJDSFHDKJSHFJDKSHFJDKS
On April 18 2009 08:07 Resonance wrote: I find it funny you use the past tense - "missed" - when sc2 hasn't even come out and won't come out for quite a few months -.- I have the feeling MoNSteR_K4iSeR you hardly played sc1 @ all.
Way to make a mountain out of an anthill
Anyway: Spidermines followed by D-matrix I think. Emp is still there tho, isnt it? Not that I'd miss it too much - it's a nice ability but not the kind of abuseable fun that the others are.
Vulture followed by medic I think. I've grown to like the Hellion, at least as long as it gets some fun ability aside from just being a firebat on wheels (turbo-boosters plz).
The Viking is easily the best (terran) replacement unit in SC2 (goliath-> viking, keeps all the good and makes it better). I like the reapers and the marauders too I suppose.
New spells I'm not really sure - D8 Charges and Snipe seem fun. Snipe makes the ghost way more in line with what I imagined it to be. Before they removed it, the "sense psyker" ability of the Ghost was for sure one of my favorites... Even though I think my initial reaction was "omg that sucks", I grew to like the idea
some people actually thought the mule was a 'badass' unit? what? Even though (as a protoss player) I hate vultures and their mines, I will sorely miss them I think the reapers are pretty badass atm, their D8 charges will make the game interesting
On April 18 2009 09:30 FrozenArbiter wrote: Vulture followed by medic I think. I've grown to like the Hellion, at least as long as it gets some fun ability aside from just being a firebat on wheels (turbo-boosters plz).
The Viking is easily the best (terran) replacement unit in SC2 (goliath-> viking, keeps all the good and makes it better). I like the reapers and the marauders too I suppose.
Agreed on Hellion, I would really like it, if it had some fun and interesting ability (not that I expect it would have one in the end...*hoping to be proven wrong*).
But what's so great about Viking? It was one of my favourite units when it was basically Goliath which could fly...now it more resembles Wraith which has to land to attack ground targets and cannot cloak. Blizzard killed the concept of Viking when they moved it to Starport.
Hellion sounds pretty good, except losing Spider Mines is a big thing =/...
The new Siege Tank seems to be able to deal even more damage than the other one, but at the same time it'll be more important to keep them alive now that they are slightly more expensive...but have to see them in action before we make any final judgements..
Not much to say about the Thor...I see it more as a meat shield to take damage for other units, and maybe anti-air against mutas...
Viking is going to have some sick strategies. But it's pretty expensive (100 gas, 50 more than goliath).
Nighthawk and hunter seeker missile is probably the most interesting ability they've added, I like it, a good alternative to Irridiate...
I like most people miss the medic most. It really was the heart and soul of early game bio builds and continued to be a good unit through out the game (although the other spells didn't get as much use as heal). It gave the Terran player the possibility to be agressive early game. But, of corse if the lurker got pushed up a tier I guess it's only somewhat fair that the medic did also.
The ability I miss most is probably Irradiate.
The best new unit for me is the Nighthawk. I just like it's concept and look. He can spawn spider mines, has hunter seeker missile, and auto turrets. It is a solid unit that most probably will see a lot of use in every match up. Aside from that, the Viking and the Reaper seem like fun units to use.
I voted for D-8 charges as the best new ability. I just think it fits the Reaper's role and is perfect as an ability. It's a little like spider mines in that sense that it does a lot of damage in a AoE radius.
On April 18 2009 15:40 jamvng wrote: Viking is going to have some sick strategies. But it's pretty expensive (100 gas, 50 more than goliath).
Almost everything costs more gas now, because almost all bases have two vespene geysers instead of one. Stuff like upgrading to lair costs 200 gas etc... I absolutely love all the terran units besides the marauder and thor. I fell like both of them just don't have their place in the terran lineup. Well actually it isn't necessarily the marauder that I don't like, but rather the fact that the marine, marauder and reaper overlap so much. But if I were to pick one that had to go, it would be the marauder (of course other stuff would have to implemented for early game terran balance). And please don't give the hellion a spell! I love it because of its simplicity!
On April 18 2009 20:52 Hammy wrote: Almost everything costs more gas now, because almost all bases have two vespene geysers instead of one. Stuff like upgrading to lair costs 200 gas etc... I absolutely love all the terran units besides the marauder and thor. I fell like both of them just don't have their place in the terran lineup. Well actually it isn't necessarily the marauder that I don't like, but rather the fact that the marine, marauder and reaper overlap so much. But if I were to pick one that had to go, it would be the marauder (of course other stuff would have to implemented for early game terran balance). And please don't give the hellion a spell! I love it because of its simplicity!
If the maurauder was taken out, you would have no unit to counter Stalkers in early TvP, since the Tank is 50 min and 50 gas more expensive and Siege Tech is researched at the Armory. ie. You can't fast tech to Tanks anymore. You need to build at least a few Maurauders before going to Tanks.
On April 18 2009 21:54 FrozenArbiter wrote: But dude, they took the Vulture - a bike with mines - and replaced it with....... A buggy with a flamethrower?
Give it SOMETHING. A temporary speed boost would fit right in.
No more eraser vessels above the droneline. Can the enemy even see wich unit is targeted by the HS-misiles? Bleh the new abilities and units are to blend and staraight forward. Marauders slow. Remember how anoying sorceres was before Frozen Throne
It looks to me like the only way you can see which unit was targetted by the missile is by which direction it is flying, which is pretty good because it would become a skill to run the unit it is focused too while leaving the rest of your army fighting.
Hellion needs to go. This unit screams C&C and that alone destroys it. Terran had their very own image and style, as shown in-game and in-videos and this microR2 thing needs to be banned from all blizzard sketchbooks for ever.
Next is the Marauder. Seeing it in BR2 made me realise how generic the unit combination (marauder + marine) looks. Just big men and small men running around. I can live with the dawn of war unit, but that bulky wtf thing makes my marines look like little pansy's. It doesn't look like terran at all.
Btw whats with the red eyes helmets blizzard!? Of all the helmets you had to go warhammer.
On April 18 2009 21:54 FrozenArbiter wrote: But dude, they took the Vulture - a bike with mines - and replaced it with....... A buggy with a flamethrower?
Give it SOMETHING. A temporary speed boost would fit right in.
Yeah I guess you're right, some sort of a booster would be rather fitting. But the way I picture the hellion, it shouldn't be a skill that would help it in combat. Like maybe it could get a speed boost but wouldn't be able to fire until the cooldown of that boost is finished. Just something to keep the unit's concept simple in combat. I say concept, because this is going to be one of the most difficult units to use in high level play because of its potential for destruction if you can flank correctly. This unit has sooo much potential because of its concept (fast buggy with a long range flamethrower, as you said), and that's why I feel it shouldn't be cramed with additionnal "in combat" abilities.
On April 18 2009 20:52 Hammy wrote: Almost everything costs more gas now, because almost all bases have two vespene geysers instead of one. Stuff like upgrading to lair costs 200 gas etc... I absolutely love all the terran units besides the marauder and thor. I fell like both of them just don't have their place in the terran lineup. Well actually it isn't necessarily the marauder that I don't like, but rather the fact that the marine, marauder and reaper overlap so much. But if I were to pick one that had to go, it would be the marauder (of course other stuff would have to implemented for early game terran balance). And please don't give the hellion a spell! I love it because of its simplicity!
If the maurauder was taken out, you would have no unit to counter Stalkers in early TvP, since the Tank is 50 min and 50 gas more expensive and Siege Tech is researched at the Armory. ie. You can't fast tech to Tanks anymore. You need to build at least a few Maurauders before going to Tanks.
Yeah that's why I say some stuff would have to be moved around so that the terrans could be fun to play, and be balanced early game (not just confined to their bases because of roaches/stalkers). I just think there has to be a better way of giving terrans something interesting to use as early game counters to that stuff.
I'm going to miss so many... if only units could smart-cast in SC:BW. Then there would have been much more use of ghosts and faster irradiates, even more sexy storms, etc.
I will probably miss the vulture the most along with the spider mines simply because it is such a fundamental aspect of SC. The hunter seeker looks awesome though and it should really help to add to the tension and excitement of the games. My only complaint about the terran side thus far is the fact that their buildings still look pretty blocky and the radar dish on the upgraded command center is comically large.
the lost of spider mines will mainly affect TvP, as the mines helped stop zealots from getting into a tank position (as well as to scout wen toss is expanding, etc etc). but at the same time, i see the hellions being better able to fend off groups of zealots from getting to tanks in than vultures could w/ their splash damage.
I guess spider mines were also used for defense against DTs early game and also Arbiter Recalls...but with DTs, Hellions do splash damage so u could damage them indirectly w/ their splash. As for warp-in mechanics with the phase prism, I think VIkings will be used more in SC2 which would make it a good counter to phase prism drops...
I think the speed boost for hellions can increase the "microbility" of the hellions and maybe make it lose like 20 hitpoints after using it (just like stim for marines).
Diversity in the races is paramount. SC BW Zerg have fast units, massive droppotential and transport infrastructure and scourge to limmit drops.
Protoss also have a mobile force and an behind enemy line unit (dt), mass transport limmited to expensive arbiters.
Terrans are slow generally slow. Even SK terran is somewhat slow and becomes disorganised when the ball moves to fast. except for vultures as the intruders. Terrans have the potential to limmit enemy mobility by mines wich also serves as a scouting tool. To compensate for slow speed terrans have the best scoutingtool the scanner.
So every race is different in mobility/denying mobility, scouting/intel and harrassment oppertunities. To make the bulk of the terran army just as mobile as other races is a mistake IMO.
If every race gets too many tools I don't see much potential for different styles yet. Maybe Im getting too far ahead. I would like to see mines earlier in the techtree. D-8 nice but can you dodge it? Isn't this a bit like a cheaper psistorm with some bonusdmg to buildings?
There are 2 more instalments for SC2. This will add more units and abilities. It boggles my mind.
Yeah, it's not really on topic but I'm really wondering what kind of stuff they'll add in the expansions without making the three races closer to each other. It's like they're trying to reproduce a SC:BW balance but still plan on adding a couple more units later on.
The way I see it, the reaper is the replacement for the vulture, not the hellion...
The vulture is mostly a harass unit (well, and it's also there to keep zealots of your tanks in TvP). The reaper fills the role of a mid-game harrass unit really well, I feel. It has the speed with stims, it has the extra damage to light units, it has the D-8 charges instead of spider mines, but I think that's good. The reaper is the perfect harass unit for terran, and it fits the terran style really well.
And, am I the only one who saw the nighthawks and thought "when did Terran get arbiters?"
I think the Hunter Seeker missile is better from the receiving end as well. With irradiate it is really annoying late game when 6 ultras get it and you have to isolate and wait for them to wear off. Same for when you have mutas stacked.
vAltyR, yea they did look like a gundam version of the arbiter imo.
I am a big Science Vessel fan. In SC when I play as Zerg or Toss the Overlords and Observers tend to annoy me when used as detection for a squad. Apart from the detection I always feel like their not contributing a lot to my battle. That's why SV was always my favorite of the three. Specific abilities aside, It feels more like part of the group. For me the nighthawk fills that slot quite nicely. The abilities are slightly more offensive, and I feel like I would utilize them even more than those of the SV.
The Reaper is definitely my favorite new terran unit. It has a very unique style.
As for vultures, they had attitude and will surely be missed. tbh I won't miss spider mines. Everyone is going to disagree with me here, but I think that they were imba, in that they cut down on the number of viable anti-terran strategies. I think scourges were imba in the same fashion, and are being removed for the same reasons.
I see why they removed vultures. They didn't fill a very unique slot, especially if they were going to axe spider mines. Also realisically they was no way they could remove spider mines without removing the vulture itself. I don't think blizzard wants to have any unit nerfed inbetween SC1 and SC2.
Overall opinion on other dropped terran units: Dropship, giving it medic abilities is a fine replacement. I think the idea is to make transport units less boring, I fully support that idea. Firebat, lame unit, reapers are lightyears better. Medic, I support their removal primarily because they were a bitch to micro and had annoying AI. Plus their extra spells were almost never used. I sincerely hope that in response to the removal of medics, Blizzard gives Marines power boost. If pure marines are just as powerful as m&m are now, then nothing of value will be lost. Wraith, seldom used. Banshees are much cooler. Better style to. Valkyrie, never liked the style to begin with. I hope Vikings are just as good at anti air, and that they make their ground form good enough that people will actually use it. Goliath, this is the only one who's removal I don't support. Goaliths were awesome, great style, and they were THE anti air for force for ground units. Now we have the Thor, which costs twice as much, takes up too much damn room and has missiles that bounces off BCs, motherships and the other things a terran mech force might want to take out. Thors are super slow, don't even have any armor, and have less range than the goliath. Is the idea that Thors will be the mech counter for mutalisks? That won't happen considering the speed at which they move. Especially if their splash damage truly has been removed. So what role do they fufil? They're worse at ground artillery than the siege tank, worse at anti-air than the viking. They're slow, have low armor, high cost and take up too much damn space.
On April 23 2009 10:28 CharlieMurphy wrote: I think the Hunter Seeker missile is better from the receiving end as well. With irradiate it is really annoying late game when 6 ultras get it and you have to isolate and wait for them to wear off. Same for when you have mutas stacked.
Agreed. As a zerg I think irradiate is the most cheesy, annoying, unfair, ridiculous $(@#(&* that ever existed and I'm glad they removed it. That hunter seeker missiles at least look like it's gonna be fun to micro against and more fair to play against as well.
And looks much more sexy on the spectator point of view, which is my number 1 concern ^^
The biggest shame imho is removing spider mines. Those are soooo fun to watch in action. Constant mass explosions everywhere are so awesome in PvT. Hope some of the new stuff can make up for that in excitement but so far it doesn't seem like it.
I think one of the races needs to be given something to replace spider mines, they where a huge gameplay element that decided battles and games... and I will sorely miss them. Also... *sniff* they took out teh reaver!!!!111!!!!11!!oneone!!!
On April 26 2009 11:46 w00tm0nger wrote: I think one of the races needs to be given something to replace spider mines, they where a huge gameplay element that decided battles and games... and I will sorely miss them. Also... *sniff* they took out teh reaver!!!!111!!!!11!!oneone!!!
On April 26 2009 11:46 w00tm0nger wrote: I think one of the races needs to be given something to replace spider mines, they where a huge gameplay element that decided battles and games... and I will sorely miss them. Also... *sniff* they took out teh reaver!!!!111!!!!11!!oneone!!!
This is why I am so glad they arent coming back.
How would terran have done anything without them in TvP?
On April 23 2009 17:53 PobTheCad wrote: scwizard i think they buffed marine to 45hp with an optional upgrade to 55hp , don't quote me on that though
I quoted you. And yeah, BR2 confirms this, the shield upgrade adds the ten life. Marauders and reapers also add to rines so now they're MnRnMnD's?
Goliath, this is the only one who's removal I don't support. Goaliths were awesome, great style, and they were THE anti air for force for ground units. Now we have the Thor, which costs twice as much, takes up too much damn room and has missiles that bounces off BCs, motherships and the other things a terran mech force might want to take out. Thors are super slow, don't even have any armor, and have less range than the goliath. Is the idea that Thors will be the mech counter for mutalisks? That won't happen considering the speed at which they move. Especially if their splash damage truly has been removed. So what role do they fufil? They're worse at ground artillery than the siege tank, worse at anti-air than the viking. They're slow, have low armor, high cost and take up too much damn space.
I think the thor is a faster than tank at anti-static defence. It's fat, but that means it can serve as a really expensive wall. The viking is an antimutalisk. But i miss the valks
On April 18 2009 08:07 Resonance wrote: I find it funny you use the past tense - "missed" - when sc2 hasn't even come out and won't come out for quite a few months -.- I have the feeling MoNSteR_K4iSeR you hardly played sc1 @ all.
That's funny, because I have the feeling that you're a tiny-dicked korean virgin.
On April 23 2009 12:28 scwizard wrote: Goliath, this is the only one who's removal I don't support. Goaliths were awesome, great style, and they were THE anti air for force for ground units. Now we have the Thor, which costs twice as much, takes up too much damn room and has missiles that bounces off BCs, motherships and the other things a terran mech force might want to take out.
The Viking ground form IS the Goliath. The Goliath and Wraith (with its air-to-air missles) are merged into one unit. I guess the Thor's attack may be similar to a Valkryie's, except ground-to-air?
On April 18 2009 08:07 Resonance wrote: I find it funny you use the past tense - "missed" - when sc2 hasn't even come out and won't come out for quite a few months -.- I have the feeling MoNSteR_K4iSeR you hardly played sc1 @ all.
That's funny, because I have the feeling that you're a tiny-dicked korean virgin.
with no spider mine a lot of terran option is gone!
mine can use prevent/delay expo , micro trap goon , map control , terran can go mech against Z , and one of people's favorite mie in the probe line and wait for some firework.
On May 02 2009 07:35 AlwaysGG wrote: with no spider mine a lot of terran option is gone!
mine can use prevent/delay expo , micro trap goon , map control , terran can go mech against Z , and one of people's favorite mie in the probe line and wait for some firework.
i miss the most is mine and irradiate.
Well it's not like they're going to put all the old units in to prevent things from being lost and then 'add' the new stuff. Shit has got to go son.
EPT![[image loading]](http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/starcraft/images/4/46/Vulture_SC1_Art1.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/starcraft/images/e/e2/Hellion_SC2_DevRend1.jpg)
