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[EP1] Starcraft 2 Battle Report #1 - Page 21

Forum Index > SC2 General
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MrHoon *
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
10183 Posts
January 08 2009 15:20 GMT
#401
I hope they get another one up quick

I enjoyed almost every single moment of it (despite them playing bad, but I have to be nice since it is still an unreleased game). I wish they showed some Zerg though. Preferably ZvT, I am very curious if like Dustin said, the 10hp upgrade will allow marines to safely tech to medivacs.
dats racist
Unentschieden
Profile Joined August 2007
Germany1471 Posts
January 08 2009 17:47 GMT
#402
Actually I´d be curious to see Terrans get by WITHOUT Medivacs. We all know how it works with Healing but when was the last Time you saw a Vanilla SC match? You know, WITHOUT Broodwar?
Liquid`Jinro
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
Sweden33723 Posts
January 08 2009 17:50 GMT
#403
Honestly, I've played quite a lot of vanilla (late night vanilla hunters can be fun), and terran bio is just booooooring ;p (Even though terran is still fun)

Thankfully SC2 Terran won't just be SC1 Terran minus Medics, so maybe they can make it fun anyway. Maybe.
Moderatortell the guy that interplanatar interaction is pivotal to terrans variety of optionitudals in the pre-midgame preperatories as well as the protosstinal deterriggation of elite zergling strikes - Stimey n | Formerly FrozenArbiter
wanderer
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States641 Posts
January 09 2009 07:13 GMT
#404
http://commandandconquer.com/portal/site/tiberium/article/detail?contentId=04ba3d9fff74e110VgnVCM100000100d2c0aRCRD

this is just like the C&C3 battlecast series.

( btw check out on commandandconquer.com how the #1 player in 1v1 has the starcraft box art as his avatar \m/ )
Fuck you, I have a degree in mathematics and I speak 12 languages. (I called the World Cup final in 2008 btw)
d_so
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Korea (South)3262 Posts
January 09 2009 15:35 GMT
#405
units seem so damn floaty.

and wtf is this porting-through-pylon bullshit. so you're telling me if you can build a pylon in someone's base you can port zealots through there how is this fairrr???
manner
Liquid`Jinro
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
Sweden33723 Posts
January 09 2009 16:32 GMT
#406
Yes, and why not? It's cool.
Moderatortell the guy that interplanatar interaction is pivotal to terrans variety of optionitudals in the pre-midgame preperatories as well as the protosstinal deterriggation of elite zergling strikes - Stimey n | Formerly FrozenArbiter
d_so
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Korea (South)3262 Posts
January 11 2009 03:18 GMT
#407
On January 10 2009 01:32 FrozenArbiter wrote:
Yes, and why not? It's cool.


i dono man.

think about it: this ability is already found in starcraft:broodwar, albeit for zergs with nydus canal. but for zergs to use it successfully, there are a series of well-deserved barriers in play: hive tech, proxy hatchery, nydus can build time.

but in sc2 protoss can skip all that with just one pylon????

or perhaps it is comparable to recall in bw... but cmon recall is one of the last things toss is able to get in broodwar, but in sc2 they can get it in the opening game?

that's IMBA yo... unless every race has this kind of teleporting flexibility. even if it is cool, i hope they nerf that to shit

and i hope the game moves faster =)
manner
Ancestral
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United States3230 Posts
January 11 2009 03:36 GMT
#408
d_so, it's stupid to argue about the balance of a game only a very small portion of the public has played. That huge write-up about the game that TL staff did did point out some imbalance, but the balance changes all the time as it is tested and revised in house.

During the beta, balance will be hammered out even more. It's easy to argue things are imbalanced. "The Zerg have a unit that can make all of there other units invincible to ranged attack ... IMBA!"

But what matters is how it actually is used in the game, as well as what opponents can to to counter it / prevent it.
The Nature and purpose of the martial way are universal; all selfish desires must be roasted in the tempering fires of hard training. - Masutatsu Oyama
d_so
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Korea (South)3262 Posts
January 11 2009 03:55 GMT
#409
On January 11 2009 12:36 Ancestral wrote:
d_so, it's stupid to argue about the balance of a game only a very small portion of the public has played. That huge write-up about the game that TL staff did did point out some imbalance, but the balance changes all the time as it is tested and revised in house.

During the beta, balance will be hammered out even more. It's easy to argue things are imbalanced. "The Zerg have a unit that can make all of there other units invincible to ranged attack ... IMBA!"

But what matters is how it actually is used in the game, as well as what opponents can to to counter it / prevent it.


look, i understand that the game is far from finished, and i'm not trying to quibble over little things here and there. but the concept of teleportation has always been held by blizzard as a powerful one, and if incorporated into a game, is only attainable after a significant investment into technology/infrastructure/experience (WoW Hearth Stone, once per every 45 minutes?, WC3's Archmage ultimate, Broodwar nydus canal, recall). To see such a drastic change in the company's philosophy and have such a powerful ability available so early in the game is at the very least shocking, and at its worst, blatantly imbalanced.

but we'll see.
manner
GogoKodo
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
Canada1785 Posts
January 11 2009 04:17 GMT
#410
On January 11 2009 12:18 d_so wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 10 2009 01:32 FrozenArbiter wrote:
Yes, and why not? It's cool.


i dono man.

think about it: this ability is already found in starcraft:broodwar, albeit for zergs with nydus canal. but for zergs to use it successfully, there are a series of well-deserved barriers in play: hive tech, proxy hatchery, nydus can build time.

but in sc2 protoss can skip all that with just one pylon????

or perhaps it is comparable to recall in bw... but cmon recall is one of the last things toss is able to get in broodwar, but in sc2 they can get it in the opening game?

that's IMBA yo... unless every race has this kind of teleporting flexibility. even if it is cool, i hope they nerf that to shit

and i hope the game moves faster =)


Except it's not just 1 pylon. It's 1 pylon and upgraded gateways to warpgates. It's not a teleporting ability really, it's a building ability. You can only 'teleport' as many units as you have warpgates, and then you have to wait for the build time for your next wave of units.
twitter: @terrancem
armed_
Profile Joined November 2008
Canada443 Posts
January 11 2009 04:28 GMT
#411
On January 11 2009 12:55 d_so wrote:(WoW Hearth Stone, once per every 45 minutes?, WC3's Archmage ultimate, Broodwar nydus canal, recall). To see such a drastic change in the company's philosophy and have such a powerful ability available so early in the game is at the very least shocking, and at its worst, blatantly imbalanced.

but we'll see.

The fact that warp-in is tied to unit production means it's much less powerful than any of those other abilities. Any of those others scale in effectiveness based on your army, which can always do significant damage, so making use of them is just a matter of getting access to the ability. Hence why access to them has to be limited to later in the game to be easily balanced. Warp-in, on the other hand, scales based on the number of production facilities you have. Making use of it in any of the ways that make those other abilities so powerful would require you to have a large number of gateways, so nothing like that should come into play until late game anyway. Before then it has a very significant limit on the number of units you can teleport; this makes it much more feasible to balance as an early-mid game ability than any of the ones you mentioned.

I'd predict that apart from cheesy stuff, in early-mid game warp-in will just be used eliminate the factor of the distance reinforcing units have to travel, which isn't too difficult to balance.
d_so
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Korea (South)3262 Posts
January 11 2009 04:29 GMT
#412
On January 11 2009 13:17 xgc-Infinite wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 11 2009 12:18 d_so wrote:
On January 10 2009 01:32 FrozenArbiter wrote:
Yes, and why not? It's cool.


i dono man.

think about it: this ability is already found in starcraft:broodwar, albeit for zergs with nydus canal. but for zergs to use it successfully, there are a series of well-deserved barriers in play: hive tech, proxy hatchery, nydus can build time.

but in sc2 protoss can skip all that with just one pylon????

or perhaps it is comparable to recall in bw... but cmon recall is one of the last things toss is able to get in broodwar, but in sc2 they can get it in the opening game?

that's IMBA yo... unless every race has this kind of teleporting flexibility. even if it is cool, i hope they nerf that to shit

and i hope the game moves faster =)


Except it's not just 1 pylon. It's 1 pylon and upgraded gateways to warpgates. It's not a teleporting ability really, it's a building ability. You can only 'teleport' as many units as you have warpgates, and then you have to wait for the build time for your next wave of units.


so instead of being the units exiting from a gateway, they show up at the pylon? i guess that's a bit different, and pardon me for not fully understanding it, but that still means instantaneous reinforcements... maybe not so bad though.

i ono. im not trying to shit on the game entirely, and since i misunderstood the concept i might have spoken too soon. we'll see~~
manner
d_so
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Korea (South)3262 Posts
January 11 2009 04:32 GMT
#413
On January 11 2009 13:28 armed_ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 11 2009 12:55 d_so wrote:(WoW Hearth Stone, once per every 45 minutes?, WC3's Archmage ultimate, Broodwar nydus canal, recall). To see such a drastic change in the company's philosophy and have such a powerful ability available so early in the game is at the very least shocking, and at its worst, blatantly imbalanced.

but we'll see.

The fact that warp-in is tied to unit production means it's much less powerful than any of those other abilities. Any of those others scale in effectiveness based on your army, which can always do significant damage, so making use of them is just a matter of getting access to the ability. Hence why access to them has to be limited to later in the game to be easily balanced. Warp-in, on the other hand, scales based on the number of production facilities you have. Making use of it in any of the ways that make those other abilities so powerful would require you to have a large number of gateways, so nothing like that should come into play until late game anyway. Before then it has a very significant limit on the number of units you can teleport; this makes it much more feasible to balance as an early-mid game ability than any of the ones you mentioned.

I'd predict that apart from cheesy stuff, in early-mid game warp-in will just be used eliminate the factor of the distance reinforcing units have to travel, which isn't too difficult to balance.


good points, but "the distance of reinforcing units" is exactly what makes proxying barracks/gateways/hatcheries such a high risk/high reward strat right now. as it's one of the more critical opening decisions a player can make, i'd say that gives a significant advantage.

but since we don't know exactly what the tech tree for it will be, or what similar abilities other races may have imma hold off on calling it imba... sorry bout that and thx for all the information.
manner
MuR)Ernu
Profile Joined September 2008
Finland768 Posts
January 23 2009 21:02 GMT
#414
PROXY PYLON DT IMBA. I mean seriously, you don't have to even move them through the map? How is that not imba? Ofc they can nerf it somehow but still.

And also, what if in lategame you have like 20 gateways? Then you build one pylon when you have for example terran in a contain. I mean near your army. Your army will get too much reinforcements too quickly.

I have to say i don't like this stuff.
Zoler
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Sweden6339 Posts
January 23 2009 22:50 GMT
#415
On January 24 2009 06:02 MuR)Ernu wrote:
PROXY PYLON DT IMBA. I mean seriously, you don't have to even move them through the map? How is that not imba? Ofc they can nerf it somehow but still.

And also, what if in lategame you have like 20 gateways? Then you build one pylon when you have for example terran in a contain. I mean near your army. Your army will get too much reinforcements too quickly.

I have to say i don't like this stuff.


It's a new game. Wait until it's released god damnit.
Lim Yo Hwan forever!
Bash
Profile Joined August 2007
Finland1533 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-01-23 22:56:51
January 23 2009 22:56 GMT
#416
This page of this thread wrote
Protoss have a permanently cloaked unit that does 40 damage in one swoop?? IMBA obviously as I'm sure such abilities exist in a vacuum.
I can't sing and I can't dance, but still I know how to clap my hands.
Liquid`Jinro
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
Sweden33723 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-01-23 23:22:57
January 23 2009 23:22 GMT
#417
On January 24 2009 06:02 MuR)Ernu wrote:
PROXY PYLON DT IMBA. I mean seriously, you don't have to even move them through the map? How is that not imba? Ofc they can nerf it somehow but still.

And also, what if in lategame you have like 20 gateways? Then you build one pylon when you have for example terran in a contain. I mean near your army. Your army will get too much reinforcements too quickly.

I have to say i don't like this stuff.

Let's not talk about balance for a game that isnt even in beta yet -_- It's like saying "OMG RECALL SO IMBALANCED".
"OMG DTS ARE INVISIBLE, IMBALANCED".

EDIT: Bash apparently covered this already, oops :D
Moderatortell the guy that interplanatar interaction is pivotal to terrans variety of optionitudals in the pre-midgame preperatories as well as the protosstinal deterriggation of elite zergling strikes - Stimey n | Formerly FrozenArbiter
Nitrogen
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States5345 Posts
January 24 2009 01:14 GMT
#418
uhhh.. dts are imbalanced ofc.

but isn't one of the main purpose of this forum is to discuss sc2, so i don't think you should discourage discussion about the balance of the game. i mean sure, they might take it out later or nerf it, but for now i think it is a valid discussion topic.
UNFUCK YOURSELF
Liquid`Jinro
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
Sweden33723 Posts
January 24 2009 04:55 GMT
#419
On January 24 2009 10:14 Nitrogen wrote:
uhhh.. dts are imbalanced ofc.

but isn't one of the main purpose of this forum is to discuss sc2, so i don't think you should discourage discussion about the balance of the game. i mean sure, they might take it out later or nerf it, but for now i think it is a valid discussion topic.

Yes, let's discuss balance of a game that's not out yet --;

In specific cases it's ok, but making a post saying "OMG Teleport anywhere on the map? That sounds mighty imbalanced to me!" is completely unacceptable.
Moderatortell the guy that interplanatar interaction is pivotal to terrans variety of optionitudals in the pre-midgame preperatories as well as the protosstinal deterriggation of elite zergling strikes - Stimey n | Formerly FrozenArbiter
Archerofaiur
Profile Joined August 2008
United States4101 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-01-24 05:05:29
January 24 2009 05:05 GMT
#420
On these forums people use the term imbalanced incorrectly about 97% of the time.


http://sclegacy.com/news/28-scl/250-starcraftlegacy-macro-theorycrafting-contest-winners
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