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On June 22 2008 23:58 thoraxe wrote:
What is a creep tumor and a shrieker?
So in tier 1, Zerg only get the ling and the queen do defend (along with the thingies the queen makes)? That queen better be able to defeat 12 marines by herself if we Zerg want to make a stand.
I hope they're still not done with the appearance of the Lurker, it looks kind of gay, it needs huge spines and a face. It also needs to be bigger, it shrinks after morphing, is this to add to its mobility?
At this point the queen can kill about 8 marines by herself I believe... Maybe even more.
This is weird because it seems that the zerg can just get a great economy with a free ultimate unit... and there is no way to kill it. Once they reach lair tech they have around 5 options...
Mass expand mutas go for lurkers go for ultralisks banelings hydras
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On June 23 2008 00:45 GunsofthePatriots wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2008 23:58 thoraxe wrote:
What is a creep tumor and a shrieker?
So in tier 1, Zerg only get the ling and the queen do defend (along with the thingies the queen makes)? That queen better be able to defeat 12 marines by herself if we Zerg want to make a stand.
I hope they're still not done with the appearance of the Lurker, it looks kind of gay, it needs huge spines and a face. It also needs to be bigger, it shrinks after morphing, is this to add to its mobility? At this point the queen can kill about 8 marines by herself I believe... Maybe even more. This is weird because it seems that the zerg can just get a great economy with a free ultimate unit... and there is no way to kill it. Once they reach lair tech they have around 5 options... Mass expand mutas go for lurkers go for ultralisks banelings hydras
The Queen can't kill 8 marines, the queen dies fast. What the fuck are you talking about? Go rewatch the newer videos of the queen. Stop assuming shit. And ultralisks and lurkers aren't at lair tech. Mass expand? Do you even know the tech tree of the other races and the costs and time of the buildings and units. Dont fucking whine for the fucking sake of whining.
The thing that is worrying me is that Blizzard seems to put zerg on the defensive early on and has to rush to lair. The presence of the Queen and only zergligns kind of encourage this. But then again in broodwar ZvT, zerg ALWAYS goes for lair tech to get lurkers and never really utilizing tier 1 except for lings. I wish we can get more details like stats on units and buildings for all three races, in addition to the tech trees.
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Zerg isn't Zerg anymore...
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Sweden33719 Posts
An upgraded queen can probably kill 8 marines, much like an ultra.
Pretty sure a hatchery-tier queen cant :D
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sort of random question, but does the queen get faster with each evolution?
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On June 23 2008 01:13 crazie-penguin wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2008 00:45 GunsofthePatriots wrote:On June 22 2008 23:58 thoraxe wrote:
What is a creep tumor and a shrieker?
So in tier 1, Zerg only get the ling and the queen do defend (along with the thingies the queen makes)? That queen better be able to defeat 12 marines by herself if we Zerg want to make a stand.
I hope they're still not done with the appearance of the Lurker, it looks kind of gay, it needs huge spines and a face. It also needs to be bigger, it shrinks after morphing, is this to add to its mobility? At this point the queen can kill about 8 marines by herself I believe... Maybe even more. This is weird because it seems that the zerg can just get a great economy with a free ultimate unit... and there is no way to kill it. Once they reach lair tech they have around 5 options... Mass expand mutas go for lurkers go for ultralisks banelings hydras The Queen can't kill 8 marines, the queen dies fast. What the fuck are you talking about? Go rewatch the newer videos of the queen. Stop assuming shit. And ultralisks and lurkers aren't at lair tech. Mass expand? Do you even know the tech tree of the other races and the costs and time of the buildings and units. Dont fucking whine for the fucking sake of whining. The thing that is worrying me is that Blizzard seems to put zerg on the defensive early on and has to rush to lair. The presence of the Queen and only zergligns kind of encourage this. But then again in broodwar ZvT, zerg ALWAYS goes for lair tech to get lurkers and never really utilizing tier 1 except for lings. I wish we can get more details like stats on units and buildings for all three races, in addition to the tech trees.
I said you can go for LURKERS OR ULTRALISK stupid as in you can tech again.
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Yeah i will agree that zerg probably need 1 more unit in tier 1, same as starcraft.
But its not that different, for example we barely see a zerg player finish before lair anyways.
Few cases for hydra rush here and there but that's it. Though it would be nice if zerg still had that option. Maybe banling being an upgrade in the spawning pool at tier 1, or at least have the banaling nest being abble to be build with hatchery.
Also i hope to see lurker improved a lot since its tier 3 now.
Though nothing is final, we are probably going to see a lot changes.
EDIT: I would wait few more days until WWI and then we are going to see the newest and official units, tech tree and stats!
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Man that drawing is so backwards.
At this rate it could be another year before BETA.
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the zerg tree is kind of looking like the old protoss tech tree. where once you hit the cybernetics core, you can do a whole lot of stuff. and the only real limitation is resource-wise.theres like a billion things for the lair stage.
baneling
nydus worm
infestor
hydra
muta/corruptor
roach
overseer.
sunken/spore
9 unlocked units. while at the hatchery stage, it's juts zergling + queen and it's creep thingies. and at hive u get lurkers and ultras n gaurdians. (upgrading the queen is there too, but that is also at the lair stage.)
the thing we should be asking is "are lurkers ultras and guardians really enough oomph for a hive stage? achieving lair stage is majorly expansive compared to the hatchery stage.
perhaps they wanted to restrict the beginnings to zergling/creeptumor harass, and then keep opponents guessing with a vast array of possibilities at the lair stage. i do think this would give the zerg a boost in the unknown surprize/ versatility theme. but really, are lurkers ultras and gaurdians a big enough upgrade for a hive stage when u have the roach at lair stage, mass banelings, as well as the supposed-late-game-caster the infestor available from the lair stage?
whlie i like the concept of giving a vast unit possibility from the lair stage, i think they will have to do quite a bit of fixing-up to this current version of the having the hive unlock upgrades for a vast array of existing units (ex - unlocking some infestor spells, increasing speed for the worm, zergling adrenal glands, baneling damage) so that getting a hive is much more substancially meaningful than just lurker/ultra/guardian.
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am i reading this right? lurkers as hatchery tech so let me see if i get this you want me to choose between an ultralisk and a lurker?
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simple answer would be no.
I would like to see at least one new unit at each stage of tech. =(
I don't think that will happen though.
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On June 23 2008 02:46 crabapple wrote:+ Show Spoiler +the zerg tree is kind of looking like the old protoss tech tree. where once you hit the cybernetics core, you can do a whole lot of stuff. and the only real limitation is resource-wise.theres like a billion things for the lair stage.
baneling
nydus worm
infestor
hydra
muta/corruptor
roach
overseer.
sunken/spore
9 unlocked units. while at the hatchery stage, it's juts zergling + queen and it's creep thingies. and at hive u get lurkers and ultras n gaurdians. (upgrading the queen is there too, but that is also at the lair stage.)
the thing we should be asking is "are lurkers ultras and guardians really enough oomph for a hive stage? achieving lair stage is majorly expansive compared to the hatchery stage.
perhaps they wanted to restrict the beginnings to zergling/creeptumor harass, and then keep opponents guessing with a vast array of possibilities at the lair stage. i do think this would give the zerg a boost in the unknown surprize/ versatility theme. but really, are lurkers ultras and gaurdians a big enough upgrade for a hive stage when u have the roach at lair stage, mass banelings, as well as the supposed-late-game-caster the infestor available from the lair stage?
whlie i like the concept of giving a vast unit possibility from the lair stage, i think they will have to do quite a bit of fixing-up to this current version of the having the hive unlock upgrades for a vast array of existing units (ex - unlocking some infestor spells, increasing speed for the worm, zergling adrenal glands, baneling damage) so that getting a hive is much more substancially meaningful than just lurker/ultra/guardian.
Hive is most likely needed for the tier 3 upgrade of every unit, which would include one of the infester spells, roach 15 extra hp regen and we don't know for the other units.
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On June 23 2008 03:02 Klockan3 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2008 02:46 crabapple wrote:+ Show Spoiler +the zerg tree is kind of looking like the old protoss tech tree. where once you hit the cybernetics core, you can do a whole lot of stuff. and the only real limitation is resource-wise.theres like a billion things for the lair stage.
baneling
nydus worm
infestor
hydra
muta/corruptor
roach
overseer.
sunken/spore
9 unlocked units. while at the hatchery stage, it's juts zergling + queen and it's creep thingies. and at hive u get lurkers and ultras n gaurdians. (upgrading the queen is there too, but that is also at the lair stage.)
the thing we should be asking is "are lurkers ultras and guardians really enough oomph for a hive stage? achieving lair stage is majorly expansive compared to the hatchery stage.
perhaps they wanted to restrict the beginnings to zergling/creeptumor harass, and then keep opponents guessing with a vast array of possibilities at the lair stage. i do think this would give the zerg a boost in the unknown surprize/ versatility theme. but really, are lurkers ultras and gaurdians a big enough upgrade for a hive stage when u have the roach at lair stage, mass banelings, as well as the supposed-late-game-caster the infestor available from the lair stage?
whlie i like the concept of giving a vast unit possibility from the lair stage, i think they will have to do quite a bit of fixing-up to this current version of the having the hive unlock upgrades for a vast array of existing units (ex - unlocking some infestor spells, increasing speed for the worm, zergling adrenal glands, baneling damage) so that getting a hive is much more substancially meaningful than just lurker/ultra/guardian. Hive is most likely needed for the tier 3 upgrade of every unit, which would include one of the infester spells, roach 15 extra hp regen and we don't know for the other units.
ah ic. good to get a confirmation. then actually hive stage could become quite fearsome with the upgrades. cause if you have a good foundation for everything, all those new available upgrades can get run at the same time. so after a short while, the zerg army will become significantly stronger practically all at once. i think the "old-protoss-like" tech tree (lots of options, only limited by resources) fits the zerg a lot better. deadly.
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I must say I dont like where SC2 is heading lately ;/
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lol I hope this tree is right because Banelings were supposed to be T1... Roaches too? and now everything is T2 O.O
Anyways BIG Thank You for bringing this!
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They should have another hatchery unit.
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I'm almost certain roaches are going to go back to tier 1.5. Fuck, now I'm even talking in Warcraft terms.
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On June 22 2008 17:38 Klockan3 wrote:
Guys guys, screaming wolf over nothing... They maybe have decreased the time to get to lair and/or decreased the cost to get to lair. Lair is now the cybernetics core for the zerg, not so alien tbh.
How does it matter? It just gives zerg less options. No, lair is not cybernetics.
But yeah, cybernetics is also imperfect if you theorycraft the ideal tech tree for strategy. And that's why we have SC2. To fix those issues and design the game for fun and interesting high level play.
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One thing rather missed is in any SC1 Match Up Zerg uses only lings till Lair...
unless goes Hydra all in vs P
or Hydra vs Muta wars v Z
So in theory in early nothing should change so much... no Medics but no Sunkens too, Swarm Clutches instead > Marine push in early possible... but Zerglings alone may be enough (for sure not like in SC1)
*bit later* Marines + Jackals > Zerglings...? even if yes Burrow may be helpful...
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This doesn't look very legit
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EPT
