EPT5.0.15 Balance Patch Notes (Live version) - Page 5
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tigera6
3424 Posts
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[PkF] Wire
France24226 Posts
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dysenterymd
1248 Posts
On October 05 2025 00:58 [PkF] Wire wrote: Watching the new storm completely wreck SHIN in his series vs Zoun was painful. We simply cannot keep the buffed storm if we want SC2 to be anything resembling a sound competitive environment. Yeah that third game was obscene. Just revert storm ffs... Arguably Shin could've taken better engagements, but with how long new storm lasts, I feel like toss will have so much time to sandbag pushes on maps with ramps near 3rd/4th bases. | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24226 Posts
On October 05 2025 01:02 dysenterymd wrote: Yeah that third game was obscene. Just revert storm ffs... Arguably Shin could've taken better engagements, but with how long new storm lasts, I feel like toss will have so much time to sandbag pushes on maps with ramps near 3rd/4th bases. obscene is the perfect word. I was fuming behind my screen, and I'm pretty sure Steadfast, while forced by his streamer status to hail those "beautiful storms", was appalled as well. | ||
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tigera6
3424 Posts
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SC-Shield
Bulgaria832 Posts
Surveillance mode now reveals the Observers. It makes no sense... | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25814 Posts
I felt even the nerfed storm with lower DPS/higher duration and total damage might have still been good against Zerg in plenty of scenarios because unlike T they have melee units. Also roaches, to a lesser degree hydras don’t have huge DPS and tend to have to stick around and outnumber to bust a Toss. This form of Storm? It just feels it’s an outright buff versus Zerg. Stop changing Storm! It’s fine! Goodness sake. See how the overcharge change goes It feels like you’ve a set of scales, that were basically level, and you keep laying on weights or taking them away to make it bounce up and down on either end. So after the first set of tweaks it felt it’s potentially making storm garbage against T, and maybe OK against Z, and an overall nerf to storm and Toss. Now it’s as good as before/situationally better versus T, and probably better versus Z, which overall is a buff to Toss. I’m OK with experimenting, but perhaps fine tune changes, see what works and look into making the next tweak. | ||
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Agh
United States998 Posts
On October 05 2025 01:02 dysenterymd wrote: Yeah that third game was obscene. Just revert storm ffs... Arguably Shin could've taken better engagements, but with how long new storm lasts, I feel like toss will have so much time to sandbag pushes on maps with ramps near 3rd/4th bases. Can you clip the parts that were "obscene" please? Was it the part where he had an 80 supply advantage and attacked up converging ramps into a 6+ High Templar army? Or was it the part where he build 4 spines at his 4th and let a zealot run-by go ignored into his 3rd base and wipe out that mineral line? Just genuinely curious. | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24226 Posts
On October 05 2025 02:21 Agh wrote: Can you clip the parts that were "obscene" please? Was it the part where he had an 80 supply advantage and attacked up converging ramps into a 6+ High Templar army? Or was it the part where he build 4 spines at his 4th and let a zealot run-by go ignored into his 3rd base and wipe out that mineral line? Just genuinely curious. please be serious. The fact he just couldn't finish the game with (indeed) a 80 supply advantage because of 5 storms should tell you there is a problem with the current version. Btw, noticed how Zoun played the whole game on 3 bases but was able to hold because the gas he got was enough to get storms ? Just having storm vs such a ling bane hydra army would never have saved him in any previous iteration of the game. | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24226 Posts
On October 05 2025 02:08 WombaT wrote: Stop changing Storm! It’s fine! Goodness sake. See how the overcharge change goes. Please do this. Keep the other changes all you want, but please do this. | ||
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tigera6
3424 Posts
On October 05 2025 02:21 Agh wrote: Can you clip the parts that were "obscene" please? Was it the part where he had an 80 supply advantage and attacked up converging ramps into a 6+ High Templar army? Or was it the part where he build 4 spines at his 4th and let a zealot run-by go ignored into his 3rd base and wipe out that mineral line? Just genuinely curious. So you think an 80 supply advantage should be completely wiped out by 6 High Templar with Storm? And you think that make the game good/balance/ fun to watch? | ||
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Agh
United States998 Posts
On October 05 2025 02:08 WombaT wrote: What makes it even worse is to my knowledge it’s bugged in terms of the animation not properly mapping onto the actual area it’s doing damage in. I felt even the nerfed storm with lower DPS/higher duration and total damage might have still been good against Zerg in plenty of scenarios because unlike T they have melee units. Also roaches, to a lesser degree hydras don’t have huge DPS and tend to have to stick around and outnumber to bust a Toss. This form of Storm? It just feels it’s an outright buff versus Zerg. Stop changing Storm! It’s fine! Goodness sake. See how the overcharge change goes It feels like you’ve a set of scales, that were basically level, and you keep laying on weights or taking them away to make it bounce up and down on either end. So after the first set of tweaks it felt it’s potentially making storm garbage against T, and maybe OK against Z, and an overall nerf to storm and Toss. Now it’s as good as before/situationally better versus T, and probably better versus Z, which overall is a buff to Toss. I’m OK with experimenting, but perhaps fine tune changes, see what works and look into making the next tweak. I don't know why they changed it, much less two things at the same time. Should have left it alone and tested the energy recharge only. It's current version yields more utility vs Z which is a buff that clearly wasn't intended. It's too strong in tight spaces and if you have excess energy allows you to get yourself in that ideal position. The way the patch was handled seemed like an obfuscated way to push the ghost supply change in at the last second, not to mention the banshee speed research that was already seeing play beforehand, quite the head scratching decisions. | ||
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ejozl
Denmark3429 Posts
Storm is overtuned, sure, but without buffing storm it's simply a protoss nerf, and the better player would've lost that game. The safe change would've been to make energy overcharge give 75e, or cost 75e and give 100e, then use the old storm but give it 1 extra tick at the end. The overpowering version of storm could also work, but then it'd be fair to give back emp 2r upg, banes with full value dmg and 40hp and widow mine at 1.75, fungal can last 6 seconds instead of 4 with lower dps. I'd be for something like that. | ||
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dysenterymd
1248 Posts
On October 05 2025 07:48 ejozl wrote: Would shin have won with old storm and energy overcharge at 100e, I'm not sure, it seems zoun read the game perfectly and if shin was aiming to all in then why go to 80+ drones? He could've perhaps gone broods for a later timing. Storm is overtuned, sure, but without buffing storm it's simply a protoss nerf, and the better player would've lost that game. The safe change would've been to make energy overcharge give 75e, or cost 75e and give 100e, then use the old storm but give it 1 extra tick at the end. The overpowering version of storm could also work, but then it'd be fair to give back emp 2r upg, banes with full value dmg and 40hp and widow mine at 1.75, fungal can last 6 seconds instead of 4 with lower dps. I'd be for something like that. I'm not against a Zerg up 80 supply being able to lose if they head-butt into a 3 base toss with storm, batteries, and cannons, but I feel like when SHIN pushed into Zoun's 3 bases after killing the 4th he actually did a pretty good job dodging storms, they just covered so much surface area. We can't know how the old patch would have gone (where imo, PvZ was roughly balanced), but even with a few more smaller storms, I feel like some banes would've inevitably slipped through and SHIN would've traded well enough. Not sure I agree that Zoun is the better player - I'd expect him and Shin to be evenly matched (neither are the absolute best, but are scary players who can beat almost anyone on a good day.) Attacking Zoun after killing the 4th turned out to be the wrong call, and I'm sure Zerg will learn when they can and cannot push later in the patch. It's just if SHIN couldn't finish Zoun after a start that good, I don't think it bodes well for pre-hive Zerg play in this patch. Maybe Zerg will still be fine with shroud but I'm not sure that's good for the meta. | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24226 Posts
On October 05 2025 07:48 ejozl wrote: Storm is overtuned, sure, but without buffing storm it's simply a protoss nerf The last version of the game had some imbalance and a P nerf was needed, admittedly not so much for PvZ but definitely for PvT. In the end the version they chose doesn't change much in PvT and makes PvZ a lot worse ; I'm sorry but that makes no sense. | ||
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Vision_
868 Posts
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Moonerz
United States456 Posts
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