EPT5.0.15 Balance Patch Notes (Live version) - Page 4
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MiCroLiFe
Norway275 Posts
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SHODAN
United Kingdom1161 Posts
On October 02 2025 15:11 MJG wrote:  LiuLi Cup/Weekly/8Which Ro16 match-ups do you think are upsets caused by balance? I don't have anything to say about those results. as Admiral Yang said: it's a pointless exercise. TeamMamba has been butthurt about widow mines for 12 years. terran nerfs are the only thing that will heal his spite! he admitted that much himself: terran players should suffer reprisals as a form of punishment for past patches  these kinds of so-called "fans" would rather see the integrity of the game suffer, provided that their personal grievances are satisfied in some way. TeamMamba is an extreme example, of course. his post history is almost exclusively terran bashing at every opportunity. community contributions from the likes of TeamMamba, and others like him, have a tendency to seep into the general discourse where certain things become tacitly agreed upon (one scabby sheep will mar the whole flock). | ||
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angry_maia
331 Posts
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PurE)Rabbit-SF
United States693 Posts
On October 03 2025 02:09 niteReloaded wrote: Just switch to BroodWar... The genius of even remastered version of brood war didn't ask for balance change is amazing. That should be the case, and community can always balance the game by tournament maps. | ||
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RogueTheGOAT
166 Posts
On October 03 2025 08:03 PurE)Rabbit-SF wrote: The genius of even remastered version of brood war didn't ask for balance change is amazing. That should be the case, and community can always balance the game by tournament maps. Technically, the change to the sprite limit was a balance change in that Valkyries would no longer fail to fire. | ||
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Archeon
3271 Posts
On October 03 2025 05:30 MiCroLiFe wrote: Make EMP target Life aswell as shield, then we would have a spellcaster each that could deal whit the armies! Even match tvp! :D Sure, if storm deals it's full damage in the first tick too and HTs get a somewhat reasonable fighting body for the supply and get the ability to cloak and be faster. Also buff feedback to actually kill the units I'm targeting with like snipe and arguably abduct. Racial symmetry and all. Bottom line is that if there's a unit that doesn't need buffs, it's the ghost. It's kinda nuts to me that we're buffing spellcasters in general, but I won't pretend I'm good enough at this game to seriously judge. | ||
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Agh
United States1080 Posts
On October 01 2025 22:58 Ciaus237 wrote: The idea that Serral and Reynor are the only Zergs relevant for balance (and that the near absence of the race from smaller cups is not relevant) is an... interesting one. It's been like that forever, there are just less 'major' tournaments now. Doesn't really matter at the end of the day, you still have to balance around the absolute best players and not pay heed to whatever LedditWhiner0112 or LadderJimmy420 thinks. Happy was catching Undead nerfs when he was pretty much the only one winning with the race, just because he was (and arguably still is the best overall player). We'll probably never have a more balanced year than we had this one when you look at the actual top level competition/tournaments. Hopefully both Clem and Serral participate in RSL S3 | ||
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FanOfClem
Denmark6 Posts
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[PkF] Wire
France24239 Posts
Edit : full P ro4, my bad. Still doesn't feel too exciting. | ||
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PurE)Rabbit-SF
United States693 Posts
On October 03 2025 21:18 [PkF] Wire wrote: Aaaaand Skillous beats Rogue again for a full P ro8 in the Wardi Open. I mean the playing field was mostly P and no impossible upset happened, but it's getting dangerous for the variety of the game. Apparently Blizzard said they would be monitoring their new version of storm in the first few weeks ; if I were them, I'd already be considering reverting the change. Edit : full P ro4, my bad. Still doesn't feel too exciting. PP PP PP twice and uninstall the game is the way to go. Perma PP from the game, take a break, do something nice IRL , touch some grass we'll be all good to go. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27217 Posts
On October 03 2025 04:33 Russano wrote: Storm does too much damage. I like the idea behind increasing the radius and extending the duration, but it needs further tuning. Maybe 110 damage instead of 140. This is the problem with tweaking a real core ability at this juncture. Over or under tune it and things get really messy for a while. | ||
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MJG
United Kingdom1451 Posts
The problem was very obviously Energy Recharge. Energy Recharge should've been nerfed harder. No cool down buff, just the energy nerf. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27217 Posts
On October 03 2025 22:48 MJG wrote: Storm didn't need changing at all. The problem was very obviously Energy Recharge. Energy Recharge should've been nerfed harder. No cool down buff, just the energy nerf. There’s a lot of stuff in that patch I didn’t feel needed changing. Which isn’t necessarily a problem, shaking things up or incentivising different approaches and styles should be just as much the object as toning down things that are too strong. I just don’t get how it all fits together, or how it’s meant to anyway. Where are the explanatory notes? Although in the past often changes seemed to actively go against the patch changes It’s just a wonky process, I think they change too much at once for a start. Unless it’s very obvious, how do we figure what’s impacting what. Case in point, problem is energy overcharge in combination with storm. I think that’s a good thing to address. All but the biggest Protoss zealot would concede that combo was a bit overtuned. So OK, good thing to look at. But rather than address one aspect of the combo, they nerfed both at once. And one has been a core aspect of the game since WoL, basically unchanged. So now you’re trying to find a sweet spot with two simultaneous changes, one of which may be too big a nerf. In addition, the Terran Viking buff is an indirect nerf to Colossus, that’s the other main source of AoE, from the faction that absolutely needs it. OK, that’s a pretty obvious set of cascading problems, what’s a potential tweak on a second pass going to be? Well, a pretty obvious port of call is buffing the Disruptor, the third and least-heralded part of the Toss Holy AoE Trinity. Well OK, that’s a pretty logical tweak. Except then on the third pass, and the one that goes into retail, you buff storm back up, and you retain a buffed Disruptor. So now, what do you get? Well, how do we know? We never properly investigated energy overcharge in isolation, we just kept making changes atop changes It’s such a strange process to me. I think you see it with Zerg as well. I like the idea of microbial shroud, it seems, second-guessing intended to give Zerg a tool to attack into defensive setups. OK, cool, let’s see how that works. Except added atop that, the abduct on tank change, also the Viking change which IMO is probably most targeted at lategame Z and brood switches. It feels almost like ‘hm microbial shroud might be too good with x comp in x scenario, better buff counters to that.’ But before ascertaining if shroud is actually that potent. I don’t think it’s all bad, but why do so much in one patch? It’s a very delicately balanced game. Could you not do half as much, twice as frequently? | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24239 Posts
On October 03 2025 23:28 WombaT wrote: I don’t think it’s all bad, but why do so much in one patch? It’s a very delicately balanced game. Could you not do half as much, twice as frequently? 100% agree. The game is 15 years old, for God's sake. At that point, we should be far into the fine tuning stage, and we're getting full overhauls every year. Why can't we have a patch that looks like this : "OK, TvP is obviously too hard for T and we want to promote muta ling bane play vP and vT again. Hence, here are the proposed changes : - spire cost -> 150/150, build time reduced - centrifugal hooks gives +5 HP again - cyclone bug fix (or make the "bugged" version official) - energy overcharge nerf - viking cost -> 125/75" instead of the aforementioned changes + a bunch of trololol changes (without any explanation for most of them) that address nothing and are bound to completely throw away the state of the game we knew previously ? That genuinely makes me mad. I get that content creators wouldn't have their "OMG BROKEN SHROUD IS TERRAN WRECKED ?" or "NEW STORM DOESN'T KILL A MARINE UNDER A MEDIVAC" videos, but I don't think the game needs them. We should get excited about good games and a sound competitive environment, not about crazy patches. | ||
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ejozl
Denmark3518 Posts
10 years from now a player cming back to sc2 would've no idea what anything does, because anything can change and will change, and most changes are hardly sensible. That said the meta is probably still fun, and I can't be too annoyed seeing what the first iteration was. I shall remember that because it was the worst, and many ppl supported those changes, which goes to show that it's in the end still the same, protoss should expect not only to not win, but to receive nerfs on top when it happens. | ||
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Tommy131313
Germany157 Posts
On October 01 2025 22:58 Ciaus237 wrote: The idea that Serral and Reynor are the only Zergs relevant for balance (and that the near absence of the race from smaller cups is not relevant) is an... interesting one. ...just play like Serral... LMAO  | ||
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Tommy131313
Germany157 Posts
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Lexender
Mexico2661 Posts
On October 04 2025 02:38 ejozl wrote: 10 years from now a player cming back to sc2 would've no idea what anything does, because anything can change and will change, and most changes are hardly sensible. Thats not a bad or a weird thing, pretty much everygame is like that, BW fans have a warped sense of reality but even games that are old and have a scene (Aoe2, WC3, LoL, DotA) have patches, shit even cardgames have bannings in their eternal formats, its very common to have to learn new metas when coming back to a game. | ||
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Sameday
9 Posts
Psi-Storm gets triple buffed, basically a 50% effective radius buff, since units will already be moving away from the center. The damage still can't be ignored, there's still the exact same urgency to get marines out of the storm now. Patch that was supposed to super nerf Protoss does this: 50% radius increase to Storm 80% damage increase Storm Get free storms still, except faster 100% duration increase Every second counts in an RTS, this is exactly why Pro players do mining tricks in Brood War and SC2. Giving Protoss over 3 additional seconds (due to radius increase as well) of additional zoning, forget about the damage, it's over. The current player base is going to shrink by at least 50% in the next couple months. This patch gave the largest buffs to any race I've ever seen in an RTS in 2 decades of playing RTS games. Don't worry though, guys. Banshees getting speed ~20 seconds earlier even though 1 sentry hallucination +1 phoenix can chase them down no matter what is the buff we needed in a 15% win rate matchup! The community has been overwhelmingly patient with how Protoss players are able to camp on shield batteries, templars, and cannons, all while teching to super fast super high range super high damage Tempests. (I never read replies) User was banned for this post. | ||
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Agh
United States1080 Posts
On October 04 2025 16:28 Sameday wrote: Starcraft 2 has been on life support for a while, but this patch is the nail in the coffin. I uninstalled for good tonight. Tourneys have been super stale with no quotable games for a long time. So it's not fun to play, and not fun to watch. Brood War is still amazing, though. Psi-Storm gets triple buffed, basically a 50% effective radius buff, since units will already be moving away from the center. The damage still can't be ignored, there's still the exact same urgency to get marines out of the storm now. Patch that was supposed to super nerf Protoss does this: 50% radius increase to Storm 80% damage increase Storm Get free storms still, except faster 100% duration increase Every second counts in an RTS, this is exactly why Pro players do mining tricks in Brood War and SC2. Giving Protoss over 3 additional seconds (due to radius increase as well) of additional zoning, forget about the damage, it's over. The current player base is going to shrink by at least 50% in the next couple months. This patch gave the largest buffs to any race I've ever seen in an RTS in 2 decades of playing RTS games. Don't worry though, guys. Banshees getting speed ~20 seconds earlier even though 1 sentry hallucination +1 phoenix can chase them down no matter what is the buff we needed in a 15% win rate matchup! The community has been overwhelmingly patient with how Protoss players are able to camp on shield batteries, templars, and cannons, all while teching to super fast super high range super high damage Tempests. (I never read replies) Oh that's interesting. Leading 4 Selection/Asia And quite odd. Not sure we're watching the same game(s)? The -1 range and less burst made it have had practically no affect in top level play. I haven't seen a single protoss except for Classic display a firm command in PvT, and even he is still trading games with Clem. They're the two best players for each race, and they each make games against other opponents look like mostly walkovers. Post from my other thread since you live in a leddit echo chamber detached from reality + Show Spoiler + On September 28 2025 07:41 Agh wrote: 4 Terran, 3 Zerg, 3 Protoss for our winners in the top prize money 1vs1 tournaments for 2025. (Minimum $10,000 USD) + Show Spoiler + EWC - Serral (Z) GSL S1 - Hero (P) GSL S2 - Classic (P) Dreamhack - Maru (T) Maestros - Clem (T) MC8 - Serral (Z) Stara Zagora - Clem (T) PiG 5 - Serral (Z) PiG 6 - Clem (T) Homestory - Zoun (P) For fun I just pulled up 2024's and 2023's S-tier results 2024: 4 Terran, 4 Zerg, 0 Protoss (~$171,500 prize pool averaged across the 8) 2023: 6 Zerg, 4 Terran, 0 Protoss (~$141,800 prize pool averages across the 10) Game is pretty much as balanced as it's ever been for the top players. | ||
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