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Artosis: "SC2 is more balanced than Brood War" - Page 4

Forum Index > SC2 General
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WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland25431 Posts
September 21 2024 12:14 GMT
#61
On September 21 2024 20:59 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 21 2024 16:09 M3t4PhYzX wrote:
On September 21 2024 07:26 WombaT wrote:
On September 21 2024 06:35 Balnazza wrote:
On September 21 2024 00:58 Siz)Beggar wrote:
On September 12 2024 05:35 Expensive-Law-9830 wrote:
On September 12 2024 05:26 Balnazza wrote:
On September 12 2024 03:55 StarcraftHistorian wrote:
On September 12 2024 03:34 Expensive-Law-9830 wrote:
You guys are really grasping on the last straw


Wdym?


He means "Broodwar ist best game ever I build my entire personality around it and SC2 sucks and how dare you even suggest something in SC2 might be better than Broodwar uga uga"


I have observed you people for a long time. The delusions are Artosis level. You guys are thinking you play 5D chess while all you play is some repetitive boring mouse clicking without much thought. There is a reason no one in Korea where an actual good RTS was established prefers the 'superior' SC2 game, except for some people in the west that have nothing else in life to feel proud of except being gold in SC2.


people are just bashing on him saying this but the numbers kind of back it up...


I'm extremly curious what numbers exactly back up the thesis "all BW fans are brainiacs and only some incels in the west like SC2"...

Also ‘ You guys are thinking you play 5D chess while all you play is some repetitive boring mouse clicking without much thought.’

I mean I love both games, if there’s one of the two with more repetitive clicking busywork, well…


What's exactly the "repetitive clicking busywork" in BW? It's all either a part of macro or micro skill of the player controlling the units/buildings. The "devil" (skill gap) is exactly in those little details + game understanding.
Weird conversation overall.

The C&C people dislike the BW in base "economy house keeping chores". To see their point: contrast BW's in base economy management with the Red Alert 3 economy management. Contrast what an RA3 player must do to defend an attack on an ore collector versus what a BW player must do when his Mineral and Gas lines get attacked.

SC64 had less of it than BW due to SCVs mining just by being rallied to a mineral patch.

I’d long wondered how they made SC64 even vaguely playable on consoles, and with that a controller lacking a second analogue stick and some of the buttons of today’s stock layouts.

That tweak certainly makes a lot of sense!

Of all the subsequent QoL changes we’ve seen, this is probably the one I think they could have added in Remastered, and possibly should have.

I don’t mind macroing without multiple building selection, zipping around and clicking all over the place, feels pretty good when you get into a flow. Don’t mind not having unlimited unit selection, especially in a game that’s finely balanced by not having it, and bigger, more sophisticated armies being harder to control.

Not being able to rally workers to mine is for me just somewhat irritating. Whether my arbitrary line is between mechanically demanding but enjoyable macro, and repetitive busywork, that crosses it. I’m already hot keying multiple nexuses and queuing manually, or later game bouncing around camera locations to do it. It basically turns one macro cycle into two

I trust I won’t be burned at the stake for heresy for making this observation!
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada16711 Posts
September 21 2024 12:49 GMT
#62
On September 21 2024 21:14 WombaT wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 21 2024 20:59 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
On September 21 2024 16:09 M3t4PhYzX wrote:
On September 21 2024 07:26 WombaT wrote:
On September 21 2024 06:35 Balnazza wrote:
On September 21 2024 00:58 Siz)Beggar wrote:
On September 12 2024 05:35 Expensive-Law-9830 wrote:
On September 12 2024 05:26 Balnazza wrote:
On September 12 2024 03:55 StarcraftHistorian wrote:
On September 12 2024 03:34 Expensive-Law-9830 wrote:
You guys are really grasping on the last straw


Wdym?


He means "Broodwar ist best game ever I build my entire personality around it and SC2 sucks and how dare you even suggest something in SC2 might be better than Broodwar uga uga"


I have observed you people for a long time. The delusions are Artosis level. You guys are thinking you play 5D chess while all you play is some repetitive boring mouse clicking without much thought. There is a reason no one in Korea where an actual good RTS was established prefers the 'superior' SC2 game, except for some people in the west that have nothing else in life to feel proud of except being gold in SC2.


people are just bashing on him saying this but the numbers kind of back it up...


I'm extremly curious what numbers exactly back up the thesis "all BW fans are brainiacs and only some incels in the west like SC2"...

Also ‘ You guys are thinking you play 5D chess while all you play is some repetitive boring mouse clicking without much thought.’

I mean I love both games, if there’s one of the two with more repetitive clicking busywork, well…


What's exactly the "repetitive clicking busywork" in BW? It's all either a part of macro or micro skill of the player controlling the units/buildings. The "devil" (skill gap) is exactly in those little details + game understanding.
Weird conversation overall.

The C&C people dislike the BW in base "economy house keeping chores". To see their point: contrast BW's in base economy management with the Red Alert 3 economy management. Contrast what an RA3 player must do to defend an attack on an ore collector versus what a BW player must do when his Mineral and Gas lines get attacked.

SC64 had less of it than BW due to SCVs mining just by being rallied to a mineral patch.

I’d long wondered how they made SC64 even vaguely playable on consoles, and with that a controller lacking a second analogue stick and some of the buttons of today’s stock layouts.

That tweak certainly makes a lot of sense!

SC64 is a great game. Tasteless has run SC64 Tourneys. There are unit voice lines but no other voices. This forced the use of text you had to read. It allows you to experience the campaign in a different way.

We used to debate: is Zeratul supposed to be Moses or apostle Thomas or maybe the snake that talked to Eve.
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
ejozl
Profile Joined October 2010
Denmark3390 Posts
Last Edited: 2024-09-21 13:36:19
September 21 2024 13:31 GMT
#63
On September 21 2024 03:03 Pentarp wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 21 2024 02:24 ejozl wrote:
On September 21 2024 01:33 Pentarp wrote:
On September 20 2024 04:57 ejozl wrote:
I don't know seems like all the races can win the big tournaments at least in BW. In sc2 Protoss went from being perfectly balanced at 32% of winnings in 2022, then the cabal made the overcharge + disruptor changes and it went to 25% for 2023 and now they failed to make it good again for 2024 and now we're at 20%. Not having won any premier tournament for 2 years.. and going from winning a 1/3rd to 1/5th within a 2 year span. So Protoss at this point is closer to wc3 balance with a race in a similar spot as Undead was for the longest time.

Winning tourneys is a terrible metric for balance, it is highly sensitive to 1 or 2 players, thus making it far less reliable.

And if you remove a race it is far more sensitive to 1, or 2 players.

Ah, what would a balance discussion be without hyperbole?

Hero won 2 tournaments, then came a nerf taking him out of the conversation. Then there was a major terran buff that removed reynor from the conversation. So now terrans and serral can win tournaments, had they kept going in that direction serral would've been removed from the conversation. You see how much effect "minor" balance tweaks do? - we could've been in a situation where maru, clem, serral, reynor, hero and perhaps classic/trap could've been contenders, but instead it's terran town. I see a bigger chance for cure, gumiho and ragnarok winning a tournament than any protoss.

List all the players that have won a premier tournament, going all the way back to the herO win, and you have a pretty large list of players, only 1 being protoss funnily enough. If you think there are no greater Protoss than any of these players, you are pretty daft.
SC2 Archon needs "Terrible, terrible damage" as one of it's quotes.
ScrappyRabbit
Profile Joined March 2016
200 Posts
October 05 2024 06:32 GMT
#64
On September 13 2024 03:43 WombaT wrote:
I must say I never really noticed any appreciable drop off in ‘Tasteless and Artosis talk about Teenage Mutant Hero Turtles for 3 minutes’ style chatter.

Provided it wasn’t over the top of something impactful happening I myself quite liked it and felt it added to the charm of that duo.


It was definitely something we lost a lot of because of the faster starts in LOTV. In WOL or HOTS, if there was no proxy, it was time to just let Tastosis cook.
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