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Northern Ireland26193 Posts
On September 15 2024 12:27 ThunderJunk wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2024 05:26 Balnazza wrote:On September 12 2024 03:55 StarcraftHistorian wrote:On September 12 2024 03:34 Expensive-Law-9830 wrote:
You guys are really grasping on the last straw Wdym? He means "Broodwar ist best game ever I build my entire personality around it and SC2 sucks and how dare you even suggest something in SC2 might be better than Broodwar uga uga" Best game is best game. Starcraft Broodwar is that. I don't see a problem here.
One can think that without being a pain in the arse about it though
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On September 15 2024 12:27 ThunderJunk wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2024 05:26 Balnazza wrote:On September 12 2024 03:55 StarcraftHistorian wrote:On September 12 2024 03:34 Expensive-Law-9830 wrote:
You guys are really grasping on the last straw Wdym? He means "Broodwar ist best game ever I build my entire personality around it and SC2 sucks and how dare you even suggest something in SC2 might be better than Broodwar uga uga" Best game is best game. Starcraft Broodwar is that. I don't see a problem here.
As I said before: Liking BroodWar is not a personality.
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This should be quite an uncontroversial statement. Everything in BW is busted. Spells are insanely powerful (storm, plague...) and some units are ridiculously strong (mutas, cracklings). Still, a gem of a game to watch, play and learn.
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I don't know seems like all the races can win the big tournaments at least in BW. In sc2 Protoss went from being perfectly balanced at 32% of winnings in 2022, then the cabal made the overcharge + disruptor changes and it went to 25% for 2023 and now they failed to make it good again for 2024 and now we're at 20%. Not having won any premier tournament for 2 years.. and going from winning a 1/3rd to 1/5th within a 2 year span. So Protoss at this point is closer to wc3 balance with a race in a similar spot as Undead was for the longest time.
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On September 13 2024 21:45 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2024 21:06 KingzTig wrote:On September 13 2024 03:43 WombaT wrote:
I must say I never really noticed any appreciable drop off in ‘Tasteless and Artosis talk about Teenage Mutant Hero Turtles for 3 minutes’ style chatter.
Provided it wasn’t over the top of something impactful happening I myself quite liked it and felt it added to the charm of that duo. it's truly a shame we don't get more collab for them streaming together. they got such a nice brand going, never understood why they never kept building it out beyond casting Yeah it really feels they built their individual brands as that partnership but haven’t really leveraged it since
I always wanted them to commentate more IRL stuff, in their same roles. Imagine them just sitting on the curb commentating people walking by. Seemed ridiculous ten years ago, not so much anymore now.
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Northern Ireland26193 Posts
On September 20 2024 16:16 Navane wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2024 21:45 WombaT wrote:On September 13 2024 21:06 KingzTig wrote:On September 13 2024 03:43 WombaT wrote:
I must say I never really noticed any appreciable drop off in ‘Tasteless and Artosis talk about Teenage Mutant Hero Turtles for 3 minutes’ style chatter.
Provided it wasn’t over the top of something impactful happening I myself quite liked it and felt it added to the charm of that duo. it's truly a shame we don't get more collab for them streaming together. they got such a nice brand going, never understood why they never kept building it out beyond casting Yeah it really feels they built their individual brands as that partnership but haven’t really leveraged it since I always wanted them to commentate more IRL stuff, in their same roles. Imagine them just sitting on the curb commentating people walking by. Seemed ridiculous ten years ago, not so much anymore now.
I’d be absolutely down for such content!
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On September 12 2024 05:35 Expensive-Law-9830 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2024 05:26 Balnazza wrote:On September 12 2024 03:55 StarcraftHistorian wrote:On September 12 2024 03:34 Expensive-Law-9830 wrote:
You guys are really grasping on the last straw Wdym? He means "Broodwar ist best game ever I build my entire personality around it and SC2 sucks and how dare you even suggest something in SC2 might be better than Broodwar uga uga" I have observed you people for a long time. The delusions are Artosis level. You guys are thinking you play 5D chess while all you play is some repetitive boring mouse clicking without much thought. There is a reason no one in Korea where an actual good RTS was established prefers the 'superior' SC2 game, except for some people in the west that have nothing else in life to feel proud of except being gold in SC2.
people are just bashing on him saying this but the numbers kind of back it up...
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Northern Ireland26193 Posts
On September 21 2024 00:58 Siz)Beggar wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2024 05:35 Expensive-Law-9830 wrote:On September 12 2024 05:26 Balnazza wrote:On September 12 2024 03:55 StarcraftHistorian wrote:On September 12 2024 03:34 Expensive-Law-9830 wrote:
You guys are really grasping on the last straw Wdym? He means "Broodwar ist best game ever I build my entire personality around it and SC2 sucks and how dare you even suggest something in SC2 might be better than Broodwar uga uga" I have observed you people for a long time. The delusions are Artosis level. You guys are thinking you play 5D chess while all you play is some repetitive boring mouse clicking without much thought. There is a reason no one in Korea where an actual good RTS was established prefers the 'superior' SC2 game, except for some people in the west that have nothing else in life to feel proud of except being gold in SC2. people are just bashing on him saying this but the numbers kind of back it up...
How you say something counts for a lot…
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On September 20 2024 04:57 ejozl wrote:
I don't know seems like all the races can win the big tournaments at least in BW. In sc2 Protoss went from being perfectly balanced at 32% of winnings in 2022, then the cabal made the overcharge + disruptor changes and it went to 25% for 2023 and now they failed to make it good again for 2024 and now we're at 20%. Not having won any premier tournament for 2 years.. and going from winning a 1/3rd to 1/5th within a 2 year span. So Protoss at this point is closer to wc3 balance with a race in a similar spot as Undead was for the longest time.
Winning tourneys is a terrible metric for balance, it is highly sensitive to 1 or 2 players, thus making it far less reliable.
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On September 21 2024 01:33 Pentarp wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2024 04:57 ejozl wrote:
I don't know seems like all the races can win the big tournaments at least in BW. In sc2 Protoss went from being perfectly balanced at 32% of winnings in 2022, then the cabal made the overcharge + disruptor changes and it went to 25% for 2023 and now they failed to make it good again for 2024 and now we're at 20%. Not having won any premier tournament for 2 years.. and going from winning a 1/3rd to 1/5th within a 2 year span. So Protoss at this point is closer to wc3 balance with a race in a similar spot as Undead was for the longest time. Winning tourneys is a terrible metric for balance, it is highly sensitive to 1 or 2 players, thus making it far less reliable.
And if you remove a race it is far more sensitive to 1, or 2 players.
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On September 21 2024 02:24 ejozl wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2024 01:33 Pentarp wrote:On September 20 2024 04:57 ejozl wrote:
I don't know seems like all the races can win the big tournaments at least in BW. In sc2 Protoss went from being perfectly balanced at 32% of winnings in 2022, then the cabal made the overcharge + disruptor changes and it went to 25% for 2023 and now they failed to make it good again for 2024 and now we're at 20%. Not having won any premier tournament for 2 years.. and going from winning a 1/3rd to 1/5th within a 2 year span. So Protoss at this point is closer to wc3 balance with a race in a similar spot as Undead was for the longest time. Winning tourneys is a terrible metric for balance, it is highly sensitive to 1 or 2 players, thus making it far less reliable. And if you remove a race it is far more sensitive to 1, or 2 players.
Ah, what would a balance discussion be without hyperbole?
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On September 21 2024 00:58 Siz)Beggar wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2024 05:35 Expensive-Law-9830 wrote:On September 12 2024 05:26 Balnazza wrote:On September 12 2024 03:55 StarcraftHistorian wrote:On September 12 2024 03:34 Expensive-Law-9830 wrote:
You guys are really grasping on the last straw Wdym? He means "Broodwar ist best game ever I build my entire personality around it and SC2 sucks and how dare you even suggest something in SC2 might be better than Broodwar uga uga" I have observed you people for a long time. The delusions are Artosis level. You guys are thinking you play 5D chess while all you play is some repetitive boring mouse clicking without much thought. There is a reason no one in Korea where an actual good RTS was established prefers the 'superior' SC2 game, except for some people in the west that have nothing else in life to feel proud of except being gold in SC2. people are just bashing on him saying this but the numbers kind of back it up...
I'm extremly curious what numbers exactly back up the thesis "all BW fans are brainiacs and only some incels in the west like SC2"...
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Northern Ireland26193 Posts
On September 21 2024 06:35 Balnazza wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2024 00:58 Siz)Beggar wrote:On September 12 2024 05:35 Expensive-Law-9830 wrote:On September 12 2024 05:26 Balnazza wrote:On September 12 2024 03:55 StarcraftHistorian wrote:On September 12 2024 03:34 Expensive-Law-9830 wrote:
You guys are really grasping on the last straw Wdym? He means "Broodwar ist best game ever I build my entire personality around it and SC2 sucks and how dare you even suggest something in SC2 might be better than Broodwar uga uga" I have observed you people for a long time. The delusions are Artosis level. You guys are thinking you play 5D chess while all you play is some repetitive boring mouse clicking without much thought. There is a reason no one in Korea where an actual good RTS was established prefers the 'superior' SC2 game, except for some people in the west that have nothing else in life to feel proud of except being gold in SC2. people are just bashing on him saying this but the numbers kind of back it up... I'm extremly curious what numbers exactly back up the thesis "all BW fans are brainiacs and only some incels in the west like SC2"...
Also ‘ You guys are thinking you play 5D chess while all you play is some repetitive boring mouse clicking without much thought.’
I mean I love both games, if there’s one of the two with more repetitive clicking busywork, well…
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On September 21 2024 07:26 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2024 06:35 Balnazza wrote:On September 21 2024 00:58 Siz)Beggar wrote:On September 12 2024 05:35 Expensive-Law-9830 wrote:On September 12 2024 05:26 Balnazza wrote:On September 12 2024 03:55 StarcraftHistorian wrote:On September 12 2024 03:34 Expensive-Law-9830 wrote:
You guys are really grasping on the last straw Wdym? He means "Broodwar ist best game ever I build my entire personality around it and SC2 sucks and how dare you even suggest something in SC2 might be better than Broodwar uga uga" I have observed you people for a long time. The delusions are Artosis level. You guys are thinking you play 5D chess while all you play is some repetitive boring mouse clicking without much thought. There is a reason no one in Korea where an actual good RTS was established prefers the 'superior' SC2 game, except for some people in the west that have nothing else in life to feel proud of except being gold in SC2. people are just bashing on him saying this but the numbers kind of back it up... I'm extremly curious what numbers exactly back up the thesis "all BW fans are brainiacs and only some incels in the west like SC2"... Also ‘ You guys are thinking you play 5D chess while all you play is some repetitive boring mouse clicking without much thought.’ I mean I love both games, if there’s one of the two with more repetitive clicking busywork, well…
What's exactly the "repetitive clicking busywork" in BW? It's all either a part of macro or micro skill of the player controlling the units/buildings. The "devil" (skill gap) is exactly in those little details + game understanding.
Weird conversation overall.
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On September 21 2024 17:34 wertgdfgdf wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2024 16:09 M3t4PhYzX wrote:On September 21 2024 07:26 WombaT wrote:On September 21 2024 06:35 Balnazza wrote:On September 21 2024 00:58 Siz)Beggar wrote:On September 12 2024 05:35 Expensive-Law-9830 wrote:On September 12 2024 05:26 Balnazza wrote:On September 12 2024 03:55 StarcraftHistorian wrote:On September 12 2024 03:34 Expensive-Law-9830 wrote:
You guys are really grasping on the last straw Wdym? He means "Broodwar ist best game ever I build my entire personality around it and SC2 sucks and how dare you even suggest something in SC2 might be better than Broodwar uga uga" I have observed you people for a long time. The delusions are Artosis level. You guys are thinking you play 5D chess while all you play is some repetitive boring mouse clicking without much thought. There is a reason no one in Korea where an actual good RTS was established prefers the 'superior' SC2 game, except for some people in the west that have nothing else in life to feel proud of except being gold in SC2. people are just bashing on him saying this but the numbers kind of back it up... I'm extremly curious what numbers exactly back up the thesis "all BW fans are brainiacs and only some incels in the west like SC2"... Also ‘ You guys are thinking you play 5D chess while all you play is some repetitive boring mouse clicking without much thought.’ I mean I love both games, if there’s one of the two with more repetitive clicking busywork, well… What's exactly the "repetitive clicking busywork" in BW? It's all either a part of macro or micro skill of the player controlling the units/buildings. The "devil" (skill gap) is exactly in those little details + game understanding. Weird conversation overall. Yeah, the 50 extra clicks it takes to move 5 units up a ramp are definitely not considered "repetitive clicking busywork" But who can argue against the "ITS JUST SKILL BRO" argument? Man i wish i could see your Game History. Would be funny to expose all the poser
it's such a small part of the game bruh. Open your eyes.
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On September 21 2024 16:09 M3t4PhYzX wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2024 07:26 WombaT wrote:On September 21 2024 06:35 Balnazza wrote:On September 21 2024 00:58 Siz)Beggar wrote:On September 12 2024 05:35 Expensive-Law-9830 wrote:On September 12 2024 05:26 Balnazza wrote:On September 12 2024 03:55 StarcraftHistorian wrote:On September 12 2024 03:34 Expensive-Law-9830 wrote:
You guys are really grasping on the last straw Wdym? He means "Broodwar ist best game ever I build my entire personality around it and SC2 sucks and how dare you even suggest something in SC2 might be better than Broodwar uga uga" I have observed you people for a long time. The delusions are Artosis level. You guys are thinking you play 5D chess while all you play is some repetitive boring mouse clicking without much thought. There is a reason no one in Korea where an actual good RTS was established prefers the 'superior' SC2 game, except for some people in the west that have nothing else in life to feel proud of except being gold in SC2. people are just bashing on him saying this but the numbers kind of back it up... I'm extremly curious what numbers exactly back up the thesis "all BW fans are brainiacs and only some incels in the west like SC2"... Also ‘ You guys are thinking you play 5D chess while all you play is some repetitive boring mouse clicking without much thought.’ I mean I love both games, if there’s one of the two with more repetitive clicking busywork, well… What's exactly the "repetitive clicking busywork" in BW? It's all either a part of macro or micro skill of the player controlling the units/buildings. The "devil" (skill gap) is exactly in those little details + game understanding. Weird conversation overall.
The C&C people dislike the BW in base "economy house keeping chores". To see their point: contrast BW's in base economy management with the Red Alert 3 economy management. Contrast what an RA3 player must do to defend an attack on an ore collector versus what a BW player must do when his Mineral and Gas lines get attacked.
SC64 had less in-base housekeeping than BW due to SCVs mining just by being rallied to a mineral patch.
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Northern Ireland26193 Posts
On September 21 2024 16:09 M3t4PhYzX wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2024 07:26 WombaT wrote:On September 21 2024 06:35 Balnazza wrote:On September 21 2024 00:58 Siz)Beggar wrote:On September 12 2024 05:35 Expensive-Law-9830 wrote:On September 12 2024 05:26 Balnazza wrote:On September 12 2024 03:55 StarcraftHistorian wrote:On September 12 2024 03:34 Expensive-Law-9830 wrote:
You guys are really grasping on the last straw Wdym? He means "Broodwar ist best game ever I build my entire personality around it and SC2 sucks and how dare you even suggest something in SC2 might be better than Broodwar uga uga" I have observed you people for a long time. The delusions are Artosis level. You guys are thinking you play 5D chess while all you play is some repetitive boring mouse clicking without much thought. There is a reason no one in Korea where an actual good RTS was established prefers the 'superior' SC2 game, except for some people in the west that have nothing else in life to feel proud of except being gold in SC2. people are just bashing on him saying this but the numbers kind of back it up... I'm extremly curious what numbers exactly back up the thesis "all BW fans are brainiacs and only some incels in the west like SC2"... Also ‘ You guys are thinking you play 5D chess while all you play is some repetitive boring mouse clicking without much thought.’ I mean I love both games, if there’s one of the two with more repetitive clicking busywork, well… What's exactly the "repetitive clicking busywork" in BW? It's all either a part of macro or micro skill of the player controlling the units/buildings. The "devil" (skill gap) is exactly in those little details + game understanding. Weird conversation overall.
There’s plenty of reasonable arguments to be made that SC2 < BW but ‘repetitive boring mouse clicking’ is not one of them. It’s basically the worst one could pick
Even if you think it adds depth and raises the skill ceiling, there’s still much more of it
It’d be like someone claiming x genre is worse than jazz because it’s full of improvisation and creative noodling, when that’s a hallmark of jazz
Hey I’ve space in my heart for both games, but commented as it’s such a daft thing for that poster to argue
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On September 21 2024 21:02 WombaT wrote:
Hey I’ve space in my heart for both games, but commented as it’s such a daft thing for that poster to argue
IMO, it is all subjective. Everyone is screaming about how great Warhammer 40K:SM2 is. I tried it for a few hours and refunded it. I do not like the combat. I can see why many people like the combat. It just ain't for me.
For me, SC2 is the best video game of all time. BW is #2.
I know some guys who only want a C&C type economy model. There are others who prefer the Halo Wars 2 economy model. Its their money and their time. These people should do whatever gives them the most fun.
Perhaps we can get some Halo Wars 2 players in here to tell us how SC2 sucks?
Or, maybe someone who thinks EA NHL '94 is great can explain why its almost as good as SC2. Managing line changes and juggling your line up around injuries can be quite a thrilling optimization puzzle while under duress.  The King of '94 Event Is Next Weekend!
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EPT
