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The Greatest Games in LotV Era - My List: Part III

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Nasigil
Profile Joined July 2023
137 Posts
Last Edited: 2024-03-15 14:37:25
March 13 2024 20:19 GMT
#1
Link to my Part I post covering my overall criteria and picks for TvZ and PvZ matchup.

Link to my Part II post which covered PvT and PvP.

This Part III will cover TvT and ZvZ.


TvT

For basically the entirety of SC2's lifespan, TvT has been the best mirror matchup for most viewers over PvP and ZvZ. LotV added more anti-siege options in Liberators and Raven's Interference Matrix, making Siege Tank stalemates even less likely to happen, therefore making TvT even faster paced and action packed.

-

TY vs Innovation, GSL vs. the World 2017 Finals G2, Abyssal Reef



This game is up there as the most quintessential Marine/Tank TvT of all time. It just highlights everything great about this unit combination: the versatility and DPS of marines, the zoning power of Tanks and Liberators, the mobility of medivacs, everything works together to create the most exciting and dynamic battlefield in all of SC2's mirror matchups.

The army movement alone from both sides in this game is just pure art itself. There are so much movement everywhere, so many big and small engagements happening on the map constantly, you could just magnify that minimap to full screen and I would happily watch blue dots and red dots clashing all day. You almost rarely see Siege Tank stand off in this game at all, both players were never afraid to charge into siege lines when the moment calls for it. There's just not a single moment of down time, and the ending gg comes at the right moment to not drag it any longer than it needs to. A basically perfect game, I would say.

Legacy of the game(spoiler): + Show Spoiler +
Innovation swept TY to win the GSL vs World 2017. This is during one of those invincible stretches in Innovation's prolific career where he just crashes everyone and everything. It's quite astounding how he's behind economically basically all game, but almost always have more army and winning most of frontal engagement. A great demonstration of his monstrous macro ability.


-

Maru vs Byun, IEM Kawotice 2023 Group G1, Gresvan



This is just another quintessential Marine/Tank TvT just like TY vs Innovation above, basically every praise I gave that game above could be said here again, and it's even a longer game with more actions! That's all I need to say.

Legacy of the game(spoiler):+ Show Spoiler +
In some way, this game just reflects the most essential difference between Byun and Maru. Byun might be the slightly better Marine/Tank player, as he almost turn back the huge early game disadvantage with 20 minutes of Marine/Tank mastery over Maru, but in the end Maru won the game by building a single Liberator, instantly turned the tide of battle, showing that after all, he just understand the matchup on a deeper level.


-

Oliveira vs Maru, 2023 IEM Katowice Finals G5, Ancient Cistern



A game that's already historically significant with its stakes and context, and is also just pure banger by itself, it doesn't get any better than this. Oliveira, the rank 20th best player at the time of tournament, the player that people voted to have 0.37% chance of winning the championship even after he already reach the quarterfinals, somehow went through the highest ranking Zerg in the world (Reynor), highest ranking Protoss in the world (herO), and now taking a 3-1 commanding lead over No.1 Terran in the world, Maru. Nothing makes sense at this point.

All four games in the series has been pretty short. We understand there's volatility and luck involved with mirror matchups, so the score might be just a fluke. Maru is so clearly the better late game player, if he calm himself down, make it to late game, he should take it no problem and we will have a proper series. Seems like Maru thought so, as he did extra safe in his openings in game 5, went straight for macro late game, even gaining some early lead. You will not kill him easily this time, Oliveira. If you come for the king, you better not miss.

Legacy of this game(spoiler): + Show Spoiler +
Oliveira proved to everybody that this championship run is not a fluke as he beat Maru in a straight up fair and square macro game, finishing the greatest miracle run and underdog story in SC2 history.


-

Maru vs TY, 2018 GSL S3 Finals G4, Lost and Found



This list simply wouldn't be complete without a proper Maru vs TY super late game split map Battlecruiser game. This is just the pinnacle of macro TvT between two smartest Terran player that understand late game like no other. There are actually multiple such games happened over the years, and I have to pick this one over a few others (listed in honorable mentions below).

For a game that goes so long where each player ended up taking half the map, it's actually remarkably action packed from the first minute. Maru opened with double proxy Barracks, TY defended it perfectly and immediately launched counter attack, and it just goes on and on like that all the way into last minute, with both player constantly deflecting each other's blows and actively seeking opportunity to land their own knock out punches. It's a textbook example of how to attack and defend with proxy reapers, early game Hellion/Cyclones/Banshees, mid game Marine/Tank/Medivac, and late game BC/Raven/Vikings, everything there's about TvT, it's just all in this game. The fact that it happened on GSL finals is just cream on top.

Legacy of this game (Spoiler): + Show Spoiler +
Maru avoided going down 1:3 and won this game to bring it to 2:2, eventually beat TY 4:3 to claimed his third straight GSL titles, first and only to ever accomplish this fea
t.

-

Maru vs TY, 2020 GSL S3 Finals G5, Golden Wall



This is not a long game, but just like TY vs Zest in previous post, it's so stressful and intense that it felt like ages has passed when it's over (why is it TY again?). The most volatile aspect of TvT is probably how easy it is for Marine/Tank/Medivac to siege opponent's main base and production facilities from low ground. It's always a headache when it happens, result in highly unpredictable outcome. And this game takes it to a completely new level.

Because of Golden Wall's unique map layout, the game almost immediately went off the rails when Maru started the siege on TY's main, and what happened afterwards is just some of the most unique situations and brilliant improvisation you will ever see in SC2. Did I mention this game is also game 5 of GSL finals after the 2-2 tied up, two years after their last epic clash in GSL Finals 2018 S3? Making the right decisions under such pressure in such chaos is the true definition of "clutch".

Legacy of this game(Spoiler): + Show Spoiler +
TY went on to win G5 and G6 over Maru to lift his second GSL trophy, finishing one of the greatest GSL finals and TvT series of all time. Before his military service, TY earned a nickname in China, "God of TvT", and you can see exactly why in this game.


Honorable Mentions:

Maru vs TY, 2019 GSL S3, Ro.32 Group E G3, Acropolis: Another super late game BC battles between Maru and TY which is just slightly not quite as good as the one I listed above. Features one of the most stunning late game air battles ever. (Reason against: it's only group stage, early game not as interesting)

Maru vs TY, 2020 GSL S3 Finals G4, Deathaura: Another super late game BC battles between Maru and TY which is just slightly not quite as good as the one I listed above. Features more BC action. (Reason against: loser made the crucial mistake of forgetting air weapon upgrade entire game)

Oliveira vs Clem, 2024 IEM Katowice Group Stage G2, Hecate: One of the most brutal TvTs ever, low econ slugfest on both side(Reason against: loser made big mistake of careless losing too many Medivacs at once)

----------------------------------------------------

ZvZ:

ZvZ is probably the one matchup that's improved the most in terms of viewing experience in LotV. The unbearable Swarm Host meta in HotS was gone, we now have an extremely dynamic matchup that's equally exciting from early all the way to late game, where there's almost no room for turtling and you are just guarantee to have chaotic scrappy battles everywhere once it reaches mid game. Together with the fact Zerg was probably a little OP during most of LotV and has the most tournament wins, the ZvZ has produced some of the greatest games between the best players of the era.

-

Serral vs Rogue 2018 WCS Semifinals G4, Lost and Found



To put it simply, this game is probably the highest level ZvZ in the history, or as Tasteless said, "that was just one of the best RTS games ever played".

There were a lot of doubts surrounding Serral's skyrocket ascension to become first serious foreign contender for "best player in the world" in 2018. Can he still dominate when Korean players start prepare against him? Did he beat Korean Terran and Protoss players because Zerg was OP? Can he still maintain his perfect match record on the biggest tournament of the year?

Then we have this match, which was theoretically the biggest test for Serral according to his doubter. In 2019 WCS Global Championship, he faced up against Rogue in the semifinals. Rogue was the best Zerg in Korea (which automatcially equals "the world" in eyes of many) and he's especially known for a few things: he has the biggest bag of Zerg trickeries and strategies, he's the most clutch Zerg on biggest tournaments, he's almost invincible in offline long matches, he's the best ZvZ player and especially a master of late game. Everything seems to be suggesting this is Rogue's homecourt.

Serral quickly took a 2-1 lead in first three games, but each game was pretty short. He seems to be mechanically superior to Rogue in early/mid game scenarios, but we haven't seem how they compare in late game yet. Then we have game 4, Serral and Rogue both refrained from early aggression, both went for identical macro builds, even the commentators were marveling "they are doing exactly the same thing, we are just going to see who's better at it!" It's finally happening. You will not get a more fair set up for a proper late game face-off. And what a face off it was. Both players played up to their strength, hardly made any mistakes and showed all their cards. It's the most thourough display of skills for both player, clashed to its full glory. You could say that both played perfectly, but one was just a little more perfect then the other in the end.

Legacy of this game(spoiler)
: + Show Spoiler +
For me, this is Serral's signature win in his historic 2018 WCS championship run. It always hits me that even in hindsight, you can't really say where Rogue did wrong. That mid-game multi-prong attack with Nydus should kill any Zerg in the world, he was successful in denying Serral's expansions with roach runbys all game long, and he didn't really have any mis-micro or took really bad engagements. But Serral just slowly build up his advantages little by little through every single battle and ended up winning. The game was extremely close until the very end; but in some other way, the game was never close.


-

Serral vs soO 2019 IEM Katowice Quarterfinals G3, Year Zero



There are lots of similarities between this game the Serral vs Rogue we mentioned above, only this time the roles were reversed, now Serral was the invincible monster that literally hasn't lost a single match in almost 11 months - probably the single most dominant run in SC2 history. On the other hand you have soO, who's biggest reputation was losing in the finals of big tournaments over and over. He amassed NINE 2nd place in premier tournaments at this point, a mind-boggling feat that's equally impressive and sad. No one put a stock on him against the scortching hot Serral in this quarterfinal series.

Both player was tied 1-1 after first two games and headed into the third game. Starting from 8 minute mark, we witnessed the purest form of tug of war ZvZ battle ever. It's soO's Roach/Ravager vs Serral's Roach/Ravager/Hydra, no bullshit or trickeries, just non-stop back and forth battle on two fronts for 20 minutes straight. It was so even and intense that neither of them was able to make new expansions after 4th, and they fought all the way from 200 supply down to 20 supply until both player bled absolutely dry. In the last moment, the last battle was waged between armies made of a couple roaches, a few drones, and one Viper. This is probably the platonic example of an evenly matched Starcraft 2 game on the highest level.

Legacy of this game(spoiler): + Show Spoiler +
Definitely soO's signature win in this legendary IEM Katowice, where he finally won his first premier tournament championships after so many tries. Taking down Serral after this incredible game was such an impressive feat it actually made rest of the tournament feel like a cakewalk.


-

Serral vs Reynor, WCS Montreal 2018 finals G6, Cerulean Fall



Another Serral game, oh well. What choice do I have? This game is historic for many reason. First, it's probably the first truly great super late game ZvZ on the highest level in LotV, it was quite an eye-opening experience for many people. Second, it features two of the hottest foreign Zergs in 2018, with Serral literally hasn't lost in half an year, and Reynor was almost equally invincible in his first two WCS appearance, with only one loss to Serral himself and beating everyone else. They meet again in WCS Montreal Finals, and this time Reynor actually up 3-2, only one more win to take his revenge on Serral and lift his first premier trophy.

The game almost looked like it's over when Reynor successfully held Serral's all-in attempt during the Muta transition, but it quickly appeared that neither player could kill each other easily, and the game gradually stabilized into the most meticulous, patient yet ultra chaotic chess match we've seen at the time, just with chess pieces made of swarms of alien monsters. And damn, after half an hour of craziness, the army movements from both players to set up that game ending fight was just a thing of ultimate beauty.

Legacy of this game (spoiler): + Show Spoiler +
Serral really gave the young Reynor a lesson here, came back and won G6 and 7 to lift the trophy, continuing his legendary win streak. This is the beginning of probably the greatest ZvZ rivalry in the history between Serral and Reynor. After so many years, If I have to pick one game to represents the rivalry, I'd probably still go back to this one.


-

Dark vs Solar 2019 IEM Katowice Quarterfinals G3, King's Cove



This is a game overlooked by many but I have to list it here. In hindsight it's almost a textbook example of what a proper LotV ZvZ should be like. It just has everything. Standard Ling/Bane into Roach/Ravager war? Check. Surprise Muta transition? Check. Lurkers siege in opponents main? Check. Viper hilariously dragging each other? Check. Nonstop Nydus? Check. Burrowed Roaches everywhere? Check. Extremely fast and chaotic all the time? Check. Comeback? Check. The other player comeback again? CHECK. It has literally everything!

Legacy of this game(spoiler): + Show Spoiler +
It's amusing to listen to how commentators described both players in the game. They kept repeating "Dark was the smarter player" "You can see Dark was the faster player in such chaotic situations" "This is irreversible damage to Solar" and they still couldn't process the fact that Solar was winning the game until the very end. Solar has been on unfortunate receiving end of so many highlight plays/games in the history, he really deserves this one for his own success.


-

Honorable Mentions:

Serral vs Reynor, WCS Fall 2019 finals G1: This is honestly one of the most chaotic ZvZ ever and that's saying something. Ling/Muta/Hydra/Lurker vs Corruptor/Roach/Ravager, it's like they made a deal that you can't build the units that opponent already have, which is ridiculous for a mirror matchups and resulted in a game of ultra madness. (reason against: a bit toooo unorthodox?)

Serral vs Reynor, 2022 IEM Katowice G7: Aside from Life vs sOs in 2015, this is the only instance of world championship grand finals going to G7, and it's probably the best deciding game you could ask for. (reason against: just a little less drama in game compared to others)
Haighstrom
Profile Joined March 2011
United Kingdom196 Posts
March 13 2024 20:28 GMT
#2
My favourite game is Bunny vs sOs, 2020 GSL S1 Match 2 Game 3.
Nasigil
Profile Joined July 2023
137 Posts
Last Edited: 2024-03-13 20:42:57
March 13 2024 20:36 GMT
#3
On March 14 2024 05:28 Haighstrom wrote:
My favourite game is Bunny vs sOs, 2020 GSL S1 Match 2 Game 3.


I know exactly what that game is, it's an unbelievable game, although I didn't pick it because I have a personal preference for "honest macro games" according to Artosis.

SC2HL on Youtube already has a playlist of "greatest cheese games in SC2 history" for those interested in this kind of games.
Mizenhauer
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
United States1847 Posts
Last Edited: 2024-03-13 21:05:20
March 13 2024 21:03 GMT
#4


Not listing this TvT is criminal. It was the actual best game of 2016 and the best example of how tankivacs could have been interesting.



Not including this ZvZ is just as bad.
┗|∵|┓Second Place in LB 28, Third Place in LB 29 and Destined to Be a Kong
yubo56
Profile Joined May 2014
687 Posts
March 13 2024 21:07 GMT
#5
HAHA I love that between Maru and TY they almost swept the TvT awards save for a single honorable mention. Very fair ratings, their greatness is peerless in TvT.

I actually think TY's TvT is even more impressive than Maru's, since while Maru sometimes just wins by better micro than his opponents, TY's TvT looks microscopically sloppy and slow quite often, but he just never loses the thread of the game. Maru's TvT is also very focused, to be fair, but I guess I mean to say: game understanding is more integral to TY's TvT than Maru's, while mechanical prowess plays a pretty large role in Maru's TvT as well. I'm glad you chose games that capture both of their greatness though!

Also great ZvZ picks, I love the comparison you make between Serral-Rogue and Serral-soO, since both were extremely close games with very analogous stories. And definitely agree with Serral-Reynor (a comeback for the ages) and Dark-Solar (though they've played so many series over the years that I didn't remember that one in particular; I remember one where they both went 3 hatch before pool that was also very memorable though). You're a great storyteller! Thanks for sharing with us.
Jung Yoon Jong fighting, even after retirement! Feel better soon.
Nasigil
Profile Joined July 2023
137 Posts
Last Edited: 2024-03-14 14:57:24
March 14 2024 01:47 GMT
#6
On March 14 2024 06:03 Mizenhauer wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1NvSxfTUik&t=366s

Not listing this TvT is criminal. It was the actual best game of 2016 and the best example of how tankivacs could have been interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFPkTVEP9n4

Not including this ZvZ is just as bad.


Thanks Miz for the recommendations. I am well aware of these two games' existence, they are both incredible games, but forgive me to still prefer the games I listed. I will give my reasoning tho.

The aLive vs TY game highlights the biggest flaw of the tankivac design, it makes things way too volatile. Tanks are slow powerful siege units, they are not supposed to fly all over the place without any drawback. It's way too easy to go down into the chaotic low eco base trade scenarios, which has its own charm, but should never become the norm. Good thing Blizzard took it out of the game after 2016.

The Dark vs Solar didn't have much multitasking going, all the actions happened at the front, no showcase of complex late game units interaction at all, the story of the game was essentially Solar gave up the air battle and tried to break Dark on ground units alone, but he failed to do so and let Dark's Corruptors took over and spray down his bases. While it's still very a exciting game, it overall pales in comparison to other ZvZ masterpieces of the same era for me, especially in the rewatch value department. The shocking value of first time watching this game is great, but I have no interest in revisiting it knowing the ending already. However I am happy to rewatch other ZvZ on my list when I get an itch for it.

While we are on this topic, I did find TL's "best games of 2018" article to be the one I disagree with the most in the whole series, compared to the lists from 2011-2015. Putting Rogue vs Serral G4 and Serral vs Reynor G6, in hindsight two of the most famous and influential ZvZs of the year only on #40 and #24 while putting this particular Dark vs Solar at #1 is quite a bewildering decision to me. This is of course just my opinion.

Nasigil
Profile Joined July 2023
137 Posts
Last Edited: 2024-03-14 01:57:54
March 14 2024 01:57 GMT
#7
On March 14 2024 06:07 yubo56 wrote:
HAHA I love that between Maru and TY they almost swept the TvT awards save for a single honorable mention. Very fair ratings, their greatness is peerless in TvT.

I actually think TY's TvT is even more impressive than Maru's, since while Maru sometimes just wins by better micro than his opponents, TY's TvT looks microscopically sloppy and slow quite often, but he just never loses the thread of the game. Maru's TvT is also very focused, to be fair, but I guess I mean to say: game understanding is more integral to TY's TvT than Maru's, while mechanical prowess plays a pretty large role in Maru's TvT as well. I'm glad you chose games that capture both of their greatness though!

Also great ZvZ picks, I love the comparison you make between Serral-Rogue and Serral-soO, since both were extremely close games with very analogous stories. And definitely agree with Serral-Reynor (a comeback for the ages) and Dark-Solar (though they've played so many series over the years that I didn't remember that one in particular; I remember one where they both went 3 hatch before pool that was also very memorable though). You're a great storyteller! Thanks for sharing with us.


Thank you for the kind words!

TY is rightfully one of the smartest players to play the game, I am sad that he's not competing at highest level now and will retire soon. When you watch TY play you are really reminded that this is a strategy game where player should win by making better decisions, not by pressing keys faster and clicking mouse more accurately.
MrIronGolem27
Profile Joined July 2020
United States212 Posts
March 14 2024 02:10 GMT
#8
The ZvZ section should have included the entirety of the TSL8 Grand Finals
HyperONE - mapmaker (TLMC19 2nd place, TLMC17 3rd+5th place), tournament organizer (organizer for the StarCraft Evolution League and Circle Derping), Liquipedia editor, Aligulac contributor, owner of Team HyperONE, and SC: Evo Complete developer
Antithesis
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany1152 Posts
March 14 2024 02:47 GMT
#9
On March 14 2024 05:19 Nasigil wrote:

Serral vs Rogue 2018 WCS Semifinals G4, Lost and Found

https://youtu.be/ZcwMEJSzUGE?si=FrbRPupCw8UCp6Kx&t=1997

To put it simply, this game is probably the highest level ZvZ in the history, or as Tasteless said, "that was just one of the best RTS games ever played".

Absolutely.

For me, this is the most outstanding and memorable game of the list. It's an incredible display of skill by both players. And as you mentioned, what makes it so impressive and historically important is that it was a match against a Rogue who was prepared, who was on point and sharp in his every move, who had the opportunity to flourish in ZvZ lategame, who could use every tactic in his book, and who did not make any major mistake.

And yet, Serral somehow outlasted him through a series of still more accurate and effective plays. I agree that it's truly an epoch-making game.
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