EPTThoughts?
KR media rumor: 2024 to be last year of GSL
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StarcraftHistorian
United States132 Posts
Thoughts?
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Branch.AUT
Austria853 Posts
If this happens, I will be sad. However, the writing has been on the wall for so long. I can't say I will be surprised. | ||
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Balnazza
Germany1097 Posts
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dbRic1203
Germany2655 Posts
This seasons qualifier were the weakest, saddest afair ever. It s probably for the best, if they let it finally Rest. I d assume ESL and Saudi money will put together some kind of EPT KR similar to the other EPT events (but probably with less players) in that case | ||
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FFXthebest
75 Posts
Weak qualifier, weak attendance, weak prize pool etc. Maybe they could still run the tournament but via offline similar to all the smaller tournaments Since this tournament still provide the KR scene some $$ and practice | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland11978 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany15878 Posts
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Durnuu
13319 Posts
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M3t4PhYzX
Poland4163 Posts
Not the worst news, tbh. | ||
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Glorfindelio
192 Posts
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Nathanias
United States290 Posts
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dysenterymd
1175 Posts
. I wonder if there will be EPT Korea, or if Korea will become a part of EPT Asia (with Asia getting far more spots to compensate)? The latter would make more financial sense and would probably result in a bigger prize pool that would mostly be won by Koreans. As long as more spots are given it might even be fine for the Chinese scene - Oliveira is good, and Cyan/Firefly/Coffee are in the same ballpark as marginal Code S players like Stats, Nightmare, and non-WTL Ryung. Or maybe the whole scene just implodes. | ||
Waxangel
United States33160 Posts
 But even without an industry-insider rumor, I think the SC2 community has been reasonably speculating for a while now that GSL is on unsure footing, and any season could be its last. | ||
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Chris_Havoc
United States597 Posts
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Zzzapper
1791 Posts
Even without a prize pool increase, Korean players would be better of economically if they just got merged into Asia in a potential 2024/25 season, except for a few players near the bottom who might then fail to qualify. It would probably also lead to better matches if we got e.g. Oliveira and Firefly in there instead of Stats and soO, as sad as it feels to say that. Even more so after the next round of players heading to the military. This model would certainly be terrible for the Chinese scene though | ||
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Waxangel
United States33160 Posts
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Gavus_canarchiste
5 Posts
So we got at least 4 bonus years, sprinkled with nice narratives and epic games. We've been blessed! | ||
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gingerfluffmuffnr2
107 Posts
GomTV rocked, even if the meta was trash RIP GSL | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland24262 Posts
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Mizenhauer
United States1804 Posts
https://tl.net/forum/starcraft-2/528630-short-story-the-last-gsl | ||
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Crocolisk Dundee
870 Posts
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GTR
51392 Posts
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CicadaSC
United States1413 Posts
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SoleSteeler
Canada5410 Posts
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Balnazza
Germany1097 Posts
On February 21 2024 07:37 CicadaSC wrote: I'm not sure why everyone is saying "yeah, we expected that." Usually this community is so combative when one suggests the scene is "dying" aka shrinking. I think ESL is likely next. If they continue it will be in a much smaller capacity. Events are expensive too and viewership wasn't much different during covid so it'll probably just be all online. Maybe offline for partnered events such as dreamhacks, or saudi stuff... To be honest, I don't know how ZeroSpace and StormGate will last competitively if their player bases are even smaller. I think if you look right now, there is very little interest in SG at least. Will a few extra units really change THAT much? Look. Personally I like it, but the overall interest seems underwhelming to me especially when the team is already communicating financial struggles and quoting how expensive AAA games are to make. Anyway. That is only tangentially related. I was hoping tbh Afreeca would host a "GSL-Like" sister event in partner with Frost Giant to stir up some interest. They could've ran congruently sorta how SC/SC2 pro league did in 2013 hybrid league. Of course that isn't any real indication, but there wasn't a single korean in the EGC Qualifier (atleast not in the Top 64). PartinG ofc qualified through ladder, but it seems like he is the only one who put in the hour. Dark was in the "Katowice Qualifier" (whatever that is) but got beaten pretty heavily...which is understandable, ofc he trained for Katowice and not some random Stormgate qualifier. There are also no korean-themed tournaments on Liquipedia. In WC3, Phantom Aces was specifically founded as a "Warcraft 3 AND Stormgate Clan", yet none of their top players tried to qualify (or got very far). Also not saying much, but if you put it all together...is there even any interest for this game in Korea? ...or anywhere, really? | ||
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Mizenhauer
United States1804 Posts
On February 21 2024 06:08 GTR wrote: GSL has lasted longer than both the OSL or Proleague, to put it into perspective. It lasted longer than Sistar as well. | ||
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jimminy_kriket
Canada5489 Posts
On February 21 2024 06:08 GTR wrote: GSL has lasted longer than both the OSL or Proleague, to put it into perspective. Crazy to think about. In my mind the BW leagues lasted much longer. | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16055 Posts
I'll appreciate GSL for as long as it lasts, and when it finally does end I'll raise a toast to its long history of bringing me years of entertainment and sing the praises of all of the great memories I've had with it. | ||
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argonautdice
Canada2704 Posts
2024: vanishingly small interest in traditional 1v1 RTS leads to drastic shrinkage and end of GSL. How many pros currently joined the scene less than 10 years ago? I can only think of Trigger and possibly Nightmare. The other traditional 1v1 RTS's have even older/smaller fan bases except maybe AoE2? Certainly not new IPs. Esports is kind of like smoking, you have to get them hooked while they're young. We're talking about 10-18 year olds. The RTS oriented subgroup of this demographics are much much more likely to pick team-based MOBAs to play with their friends than the ancestral 1v1s, but it's an organic death for 1v1s like SC2 despite the nostalgia. But maybe some form will persist for the future generations like chess. Edit: looking outside GSL and IEM Katowice, there are indeed many younger players who started playing 2015 or later, mostly protoss. Maxpax is the primary example. | ||
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2428 Posts
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CicadaSC
United States1413 Posts
On February 21 2024 14:49 swarminfestor wrote: Damn, Rogue and Zest may not coming back from retirement, I guess. did you think they were coming back for GSL money? $1000 once or twice a year is not going to be the nail that breaks the camels back. | ||
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Balnazza
Germany1097 Posts
On February 21 2024 14:40 argonautdice wrote: 2002: Aeon of Strife was invented. 2024: vanishingly small interest in traditional 1v1 RTS leads to drastic shrinkage and end of GSL. How many pros currently joined the scene less than 10 years ago? I can only think of Trigger and possibly Nightmare. The other traditional 1v1 RTS's have even older/smaller fan bases except maybe AoE2? Certainly not new IPs. Esports is kind of like smoking, you have to get them hooked while they're young. We're talking about 10-18 year olds. The RTS oriented subgroup of this demographics are much much more likely to pick team-based MOBAs to play with their friends than the ancestral 1v1s, but it's an organic death for 1v1s like SC2 despite the nostalgia. But maybe some form will persist for the future generations like chess. I mean...AoE2 survived through the ages (no pun intended), even growing at some point, now probably being bigger than ever. You definetly *can* breath fresh air into an old game, though of course that takes effort. We as a Starcraft community just are a bit spoiled I guess with our big offline tournaments and huge prizepools. Those will eventually fade or atleast decrease even further. | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16055 Posts
On February 21 2024 14:58 Balnazza wrote: I mean...AoE2 survived through the ages (no pun intended), even growing at some point, now probably being bigger than ever. You definetly *can* breath fresh air into an old game, though of course that takes effort. We as a Starcraft community just are a bit spoiled I guess with our big offline tournaments and huge prizepools. Those will eventually fade or atleast decrease even further. Eh....I dunno if you really can copy what AoE2 is doing. AoE2's civilization DLC packs are what is financing the current development of that game, and those civilization packs only work because the differences between the different civilizations are mostly minor with a single (sometimes 2) unique units, a couple unique techs and a couple of civ bonuses. I'm not sure you could ever pull something like that off in an asymmetric RTS like Starcraft. Age of Mythology which is by the same studio as AoE2, tried to use that same DLC model in their assymetric RTS and it backfired horribly because every new civilization they added was a balance nightmare and everyone hated them for having to pay to unlock them just so they could practice them and figure them out. AoE2's current model is walking this REALLY fine line that somehow works, just for AoE2. I'd be hard pressed to come up with a way to copy it for any other RTS. | ||
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Balnazza
Germany1097 Posts
On February 21 2024 15:22 Vindicare605 wrote: Eh....I dunno if you really can copy what AoE2 is doing. AoE2's civilization DLC packs are what is financing the current development of that game, and those civilization packs only work because the differences between the different civilizations are mostly minor with a single (sometimes 2) unique units, a couple unique techs and a couple of civ bonuses. I'm not sure you could ever pull something like that off in an asymmetric RTS like Starcraft. Age of Mythology which is by the same studio as AoE2, tried to use that same DLC model in their assymetric RTS and it backfired horribly because every new civilization they added was a balance nightmare and everyone hated them for having to pay to unlock them just so they could practice them and figure them out. AoE2's current model is walking this REALLY fine line that somehow works, just for AoE2. I'd be hard pressed to come up with a way to copy it for any other RTS. While new Civs/Races are of course something that kind of just works in the AoE-Franchise, the general idea is definetly that the game would need new DLCs and ingame-monetarization to keep going. And even then you will mostly just work with the players you have - it is not like there is a giant amount of fresh blood in AoE 2 either. | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16055 Posts
On February 21 2024 15:37 Balnazza wrote: While new Civs/Races are of course something that kind of just works in the AoE-Franchise, the general idea is definetly that the game would need new DLCs and ingame-monetarization to keep going. And even then you will mostly just work with the players you have - it is not like there is a giant amount of fresh blood in AoE 2 either. Starcraft 2 was being monetized, SC2 was being HEAVILY monetized, everything from unit skins, to announcer packs, to profile portraits, to loading screen borders to Co Op Commanders. Blizzard gave up on all of that. Even a small part of the Arcade is monetized now. They even released a DLC single player campaign that Blizzard said they lost money on because it cost them too much to develop. I don't know what else they COULD monetize about the game, if all that they were doing before wasn't enough for them to even try to continue it, what other ideas are out there that would get them to start developing it again? I dunno. | ||
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Phredxor
New Zealand15076 Posts
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atrox_
United Kingdom1710 Posts
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Vision0
16 Posts
You would be able to have an old school mod with his own ladder (let s discuss about the fact there s 2 ladder later...), approaching the brood war style (SC1.5). It s possible to ask to community via forms what they want (as a progamer or as a hardcore gamer...). Chinese community created his own mod like that, it s unofficial of course but it shows that people don t care about SC2 but love his universe and his engine. A tons of community have done this step, selecting what please to fans when their wishes is shared by let s say two out three members I don t think i m the only one who think the interaction with cliffs is under-used (roachs could pass over cliffs, reaper could also be a good unit in end game...), there would be so much to do and to agree ourselves with a new version. | ||
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Argonauta
Spain4902 Posts
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Poopi
France12761 Posts
On February 21 2024 19:43 Argonauta wrote: GSL has keep me going for some bad moments in my life... It will be harsh to see it go, but oh well it was a cool run. I am not sure I would keep watching SC2 if GSL is gone tho. Same, unless they find a way for the KR players to keep competing, and the KR scene somehow manages to "survive", I don't see myself watching sc2 just for the foreign scene. On the other hand, it had to happen at some point for GSL to stop: no new blood, no real perspective for the future and even sc2's future is uncertain. Was a fucking great ride | ||
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Vision0
16 Posts
That s said we can also crowfunding to ask David Kim a come back in Activision as an employee | ||
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Nakajin
Canada8988 Posts
Can't say we didn't see it coming, but it's still sad | ||
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Argonauta
Spain4902 Posts
On February 21 2024 19:56 Vision0 wrote: KR scene puts more money, it s only sparkling. That s said we can also crowfunding to ask David Kim a come back in Activision as an employee ･ﾟ✧:･ﾟ+..｡✧･ﾟ:・..｡ ✧･ﾟ :･ﾟ ゜・:･ ✧･ﾟ:･ﾟ:.｡ ✧･ﾟ SPARKULING *・゜・:･ﾟ✧:･ﾟ✧｡ﾟ+..｡ ✧･ﾟ: ✧･ﾟ:・゜・:･ﾟ✧::・・:･ﾟ･ﾟ | ||
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Mizenhauer
United States1804 Posts
On February 21 2024 21:40 Argonauta wrote: ･ﾟ✧:･ﾟ+..｡✧･ﾟ:・..｡ ✧･ﾟ :･ﾟ ゜・:･ ✧･ﾟ:･ﾟ:.｡ ✧･ﾟ SPARKULING *・゜・:･ﾟ✧:･ﾟ✧｡ﾟ+..｡ ✧･ﾟ: ✧･ﾟ:・゜・:･ﾟ✧::・・:･ﾟ･ﾟ (◕‿◕✿) STYLE (◠‿◠)✌ START (◠‿◠✿) SBENU | ||
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Xamo
Spain876 Posts
Can the remaining korean players survive without GSL? I guess so, at least in terms of their income. The current price pool is so low that they may not even notice its absence... But it may be a big hit to not have anything to compete besides chinese tournaments. | ||
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10303 Posts
Damn though, GSL has been there half my life. Crazy. | ||
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Die4Ever
United States17601 Posts
On February 21 2024 14:40 argonautdice wrote: 2002: Aeon of Strife was invented. 2024: vanishingly small interest in traditional 1v1 RTS leads to drastic shrinkage and end of GSL. How many pros currently joined the scene less than 10 years ago? I can only think of Trigger and possibly Nightmare. The other traditional 1v1 RTS's have even older/smaller fan bases except maybe AoE2? Certainly not new IPs. Esports is kind of like smoking, you have to get them hooked while they're young. We're talking about 10-18 year olds. The RTS oriented subgroup of this demographics are much much more likely to pick team-based MOBAs to play with their friends than the ancestral 1v1s, but it's an organic death for 1v1s like SC2 despite the nostalgia. But maybe some form will persist for the future generations like chess. Edit: looking outside GSL and IEM Katowice, there are indeed many younger players who started playing 2015 or later, mostly protoss. Maxpax is the primary example. Protoss is for children, confirmed | ||
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Pandain
United States12985 Posts
On February 21 2024 06:02 Crocolisk Dundee wrote: GSL had a good run, even if it ends in 2024. I am thankful for over a decade of entertaining games. Honestly, same. Was a good run. | ||
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Vision0
16 Posts
Feel free to participate if you are interested Goal : Create a PDF mod for SC2 in a old school style (all attack coolddowns are supposed 25% less faster, no number or detail of the changes, you can say for example "his mineral cost is decrease by "X") | ||
BisuDagger
Bisutopia19200 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland24262 Posts
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Zzzapper
1791 Posts
On February 23 2024 20:33 BisuDagger wrote: Some of the best BW has come in the Sonic-ASL era. If GSL does end, I hope it can find a similar story and continue to live on. One can dream but for Korean SC2, I doubt it. There's fewer than 20 pro players left; a handful of those are barely active and about half of the remainder (including most of the top players) are going to head to the military in the next year or two. And frankly, what new military returners are going to fill out that hole with the current state of affairs? The international/global scene definitely still has some good years left in it, assuming premier tournaments like EPT and WTL continue. And that more players won't switch to Stormgate but from what I've seen so far, that doesn't look like the biggest risk at the moment. On February 23 2024 21:44 WombaT wrote: It can’t only be me who finds it a bit incongruous that the Saudi money threw enough at a fun legends show match to fund a seasonal prize pool for the GSL can it? They seem to favour a strategy of setting up their own events, especially in Riyadh, to really maximize that (e)sportswashing visibility | ||
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yoshi245
United States2969 Posts
On February 21 2024 14:40 argonautdice wrote: 2002: Aeon of Strife was invented. AoS defined MOBA and spearhead the rise and creation of the genre, but it wasn't the first. It actually existed in Brood War as a map called Opposing Forces, I remember since I knew the creator of the map and was heavily involved in the UMS community/Battle.net channel on US East the time, it never really got any traction to be a commonly played map but it was interesting and the idea was the forebearer that would create AoS. It was obviously far simpler due to it being on BW at the time but it had the same general concept: Hero like player units waging war in taking down the opposing forces base across the map with an infinite stream of weaker fodder units charging mindlessly across the map to each other. Apologies for going off track, but it's sad hearing that this may be the final year of GSL. Whether it's true or not we'll obviously see, but if it truly is, thanks for all the memories. Personally I'll always value GSL above all the other international SC2 tournaments even above the world championships. | ||
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ZeroByte13
746 Posts
Thanks for all the memories. | ||
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NeedlerNoobRTS
2 Posts
On February 21 2024 00:58 M3t4PhYzX wrote: More ASLs then, hopefully. Not the worst news, tbh. Does TL not moderate against shitposts like this? Or does he genuinely not understand that GSL in no way competes with ASL viewership nor funding? Help bring communities together and bring RTS up. SC1 and SC2 are both beloved games. Any broadcasted event that doesn't continue is a blow to our community. | ||
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washikie
United States752 Posts
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outscar
2832 Posts
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felleN
Australia53 Posts
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KappaKingPrime
United States468 Posts
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PurE)Rabbit-SF
United States642 Posts
In all honestly, as someone who started playing SCBW from 1998, and played SC2 when it got released. I feel like it's been quite a wild ride with all the RTS train, the whole Real Time Strategy was an innovation enabled by network advancement, and hard work of the game engine engineers. I really wonder how people would play "Strategy" game now there are these AIs, maybe strategy can be played on a more macro level with god knows what kind of commanding structure. It will be very interesting to see. And the birth of MOBA was mainly due to lots of people have an issue controlling the "Macro and Micro" of traditional RTS, the bar of entering the game was a bit too high for many. The people who played RTS and myself included felt some what elite in that sense. I know it's a bit of off topic here, but I really wonder how the future of this type of strategy game will shape with all the new technology that's emerging. And honestly Storm Gate wasn't didn't have the WOW factor for me. Anyhow I still hope and wish GSL the best  However it will survive and lives on. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland24262 Posts
On February 24 2024 02:55 Zzzapper wrote: One can dream but for Korean SC2, I doubt it. There's fewer than 20 pro players left; a handful of those are barely active and about half of the remainder (including most of the top players) are going to head to the military in the next year or two. And frankly, what new military returners are going to fill out that hole with the current state of affairs? The international/global scene definitely still has some good years left in it, assuming premier tournaments like EPT and WTL continue. And that more players won't switch to Stormgate but from what I've seen so far, that doesn't look like the biggest risk at the moment. They seem to favour a strategy of setting up their own events, especially in Riyadh, to really maximize that (e)sportswashing visibility Indeed. My personal take is that StarCraft is only there until (if) this whole venture gets established. Provides some old school prestige and goodwill while it gets off the ground. There’s still a decent following at present and you can trace its lineage via its predecessor right back to the beginning of eSports as we know it, WCG and all that other fun stuff. Beyond that it makes little sense to me to invest in a flagship tournament for an ever-declining game, without investing in addressing that decline. Hey, call me a cynic, many have! | ||
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PurE)Rabbit-SF
United States642 Posts
On February 25 2024 23:58 WombaT wrote: Indeed. My personal take is that StarCraft is only there until (if) this whole venture gets established. Provides some old school prestige and goodwill while it gets off the ground. There’s still a decent following at present and you can trace its lineage via its predecessor right back to the beginning of eSports as we know it, WCG and all that other fun stuff. Beyond that it makes little sense to me to invest in a flagship tournament for an ever-declining game, without investing in addressing that decline. Hey, call me a cynic, many have! That's fine, I think a lot of people have been , and will be cynic, I mean how long have we heard the term DEAD GAME since brood war days, hahahaha | ||
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19200 Posts
On February 26 2024 01:56 PurE)Rabbit-SF wrote: That's fine, I think a lot of people have been , and will be cynic, I mean how long have we heard the term DEAD GAME since brood war days, hahahaha Time for a sequel to this blog https://tl.net/blogs/433721-saving-sc2 | ||
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Die4Ever
United States17601 Posts
On February 25 2024 14:41 outscar wrote: 3K $ prize for first place is too low and embarassing, doesn't respect players time, at this point it's much, MUCH profitable for pros to work on normal jobs than to practice for GSL. Farewell! To be fair the crowd funding will make the prize money higher, just like last year | ||
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Vision0
16 Posts
On February 26 2024 05:39 Die4Ever wrote: To be fair the crowd funding will make the prize money higher, just like last year Instead of paying employee which can improve SC2.....sick I can't help but think that it's the opposite that we should do, because mainly money comes from advertising | ||
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FFXthebest
75 Posts
If you look back at GSL prize pool during the earlier days. First place was 45K, 3rd-4th place was only $4500 Basically everyone else was fighting for crumbs Whoever decided on that was such an idiot | ||
nimdil
Poland3748 Posts
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Vision0
16 Posts
Because their man goal is to make money with the licence | ||
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