IEM Katowice 2024 will be held over February 8-11 with a $500,000 total prize pool (the same as IEM Katowice 2023). The round-of-36 play-in stage has been removed, while the 24-player main event portion will return in the same familiar format. A combination of seeds and qualifiers will be used to decide the 24 main event players. Ticket sales for IEM Katowice's StarCraft 2 tournament will open on Wednesday, Nov 15 3:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00).
ESL also announced that a major EPT tournament will be held at DreamHack Dallas during May 31-June 2, but did not reveal any additional details.
The official announcement also alludes to a subsequent "world championship" event after DreamHack Dallas.
The journey to the EPT World Championship will continue with an additional ESL SC2 Masters season concluding at DreamHack Dallas, taking place from May 31 to June 2.
First of all: Great news and even better to have more clearance about the World Championships!
However, it is an odd choice (atleast for now) to split the Word Championships from Katowice again. On one hand it means more SC2 and more prizemoney, but with this new plan the actual EPT Finals will be so late, they basically cramped two years into one Tour. And those Tour finals will definetly have other seeding rules than before, since IEM Katowice alone will award the Top 4 with an invite and that third Masters in Dallas will also give out spots - and not to mention how potential new GSLs will fit into all of that. Basically, the originally planned out "Tour Guide" is more or less obsolete now.
Lastly, I'm a bit afraid they will put the EPT Finals into that new Gamers8 event. That would be a huge downside to all of this
So we get Katowice + a separate world championship AND we get a confirmation of at least some kind of 2024 circuit? That's beyond my wildest dream, amazing stuff!
I do wonder what it means regarding the EPT, will the 2023-24 circuit still end at Kato or will it continue until next summer?
Edit: Oh yeah Saudi world championship... well shit
So looks like the real world championship tournament will be played in the Saudi Gamers8 thing. That fucking sucks, and i hate that the only reason that sc2 will be alive next year is some oil prince from a terrible country.
I was wondering why there are no seeds from EPT points for Kato and if they are completly useless now.
It didn t even occur to me until the 3rd read, that Katowice isn t going to be the world championship. As others pointed out allready, that probably means, the World championship will be decided at Gamers8 in Saudi Arabia. Sux
Hate to add to the derail train of how the oil money is basically going to take over and be the world championships it seems, but it's not just esports after all. Other sports including MMA, boxing, and even portions of soccer are getting huge funding from oil money it seems. That and we know ESL is basically owned by oil money at this point anyway.
On the one hand I am glad that at least SC2 will survive a bit longer thanks to oil money going to the players, on the other hand we all know that that won't last forever either. It's all on the whims of the uber rich billionaire saudi prince or whoever deciding when to shut off the faucet or if humanity can find a way to make use of salt water as a perfect alternative to biofuels such as oil to put them out of business.
On November 11 2023 08:39 yoshi245 wrote: Hate to add to the derail train of how the oil money is basically going to take over and be the world championships it seems, but it's not just esports after all. Other sports including MMA, boxing, and even portions of soccer are getting huge funding from oil money it seems. That and we know ESL is basically owned by oil money at this point anyway.
On the one hand I am glad that at least SC2 will survive a bit longer thanks to oil money going to the players, on the other hand we all know that that won't last forever either. It's all on the whims of the uber rich billionaire saudi prince or whoever deciding when to shut off the faucet or if humanity can find a way to make use of salt water as a perfect alternative to biofuels such as oil to put them out of business.
In Dota 2, this year The International (official world championship) had 3m prize pool and Riyadh Masters (no DPC tour points at all) had 15m prize pool. TI still has its prestige earned by being the biggest tournament by a huge margin in all e-sports for 10 years in a row - but for how long will it last?
In 2015-2022 The International had 20-40m prize pool and no other tournament had more than 3m, mostly 1m or less even for the biggest non-TI tourneys. Now Saudi's tourney is 5x bigger in terms of money.
On November 11 2023 08:39 yoshi245 wrote: Hate to add to the derail train of how the oil money is basically going to take over and be the world championships it seems, but it's not just esports after all. Other sports including MMA, boxing, and even portions of soccer are getting huge funding from oil money it seems. That and we know ESL is basically owned by oil money at this point anyway.
On the one hand I am glad that at least SC2 will survive a bit longer thanks to oil money going to the players, on the other hand we all know that that won't last forever either. It's all on the whims of the uber rich billionaire saudi prince or whoever deciding when to shut off the faucet or if humanity can find a way to make use of salt water as a perfect alternative to biofuels such as oil to put them out of business.
SC2 was created on the whims of Mike Morhaime. He was the only thing stopping Activision from turning Blizzard into a WoW expansion factory.
It is most probably an exaggeration. SC2: WoL has sold at least 6 million copies for 60$ = 360m revenue. Let's say development did cost 60m - it's 300m profit
For $25 horse - even with almost zero development cost - you need to sell it to 12m players to beat this. WoW had 12m subscribers at its peak, and obviously not all of them bought it, probably not even half of players.
But in general - yes, of course, 10 mounts that took little time to create can easily beat a game like SC2. If people are ready to buy 2 cosmetic horses for the same price you can buy The Witcher 3 with 200h of unique gameplay - well, who do we have to blame for MTX rise? I just think that this particular example is exaggerated.
SC2:WoL was not $60 for 2 straight years. There were plenty of sales. The game might have sold 3 million copies at full price and another 3 million at ~$40 or $30. Also, all copies not sold directly off of a BNet download give ~$20 to the store front.
Thus, I'd say SC2:WoL might bring in $200 million in revenue to Blizzard.
There are also marketing costs. Every game store I went there went 6 foot Jim Raynor cardboard cutouts. Damn, those were cool times. SC2 was marketed hard. That is expensive.
Then, there is the costs of all the esports initiatives at the GSL and Blizzcons.
SC2:WoL profit was a fraction of the revenue generated.
Pretty much guaranteed that ATVI was enticed by how Blizzard could monetize the arcade. Blizzard promised a monetized version of DOTA that would sweep across the gaming landscape as DOTA did with Warcraft3. That's prolly how Blizzard convinced ATVI to fund SC2.
On November 11 2023 06:45 Luolis wrote: So looks like the real world championship tournament will be played in the Saudi Gamers8 thing. That fucking sucks, and i hate that the only reason that sc2 will be alive next year is some oil prince from a terrible country.
Call the prince terrible, not an entire country of people.
On November 11 2023 06:45 Luolis wrote: So looks like the real world championship tournament will be played in the Saudi Gamers8 thing. That fucking sucks, and i hate that the only reason that sc2 will be alive next year is some oil prince from a terrible country.
Call the prince terrible, not an entire country of people.
I call the nation terrible, not the people. Just like i would call Russia a terrible nation, while i wouldnt say all Russians are terrible people.
any way you cut it we've got 14 years of esports for a solid RTS game. As a guy who loved other RTS's and watch esports dwindle to almost nothing in a year..i'll take the 14 years.
On November 11 2023 04:01 Balnazza wrote: First of all: Great news and even better to have more clearance about the World Championships!
However, it is an odd choice (atleast for now) to split the Word Championships from Katowice again. On one hand it means more SC2 and more prizemoney, but with this new plan the actual EPT Finals will be so late, they basically cramped two years into one Tour. And those Tour finals will definetly have other seeding rules than before, since IEM Katowice alone will award the Top 4 with an invite and that third Masters in Dallas will also give out spots - and not to mention how potential new GSLs will fit into all of that. Basically, the originally planned out "Tour Guide" is more or less obsolete now.
Lastly, I'm a bit afraid they will put the EPT Finals into that new Gamers8 event. That would be a huge downside to all of this
IEM have always played it a bit fast and loose with their branding, conflating or separating IEM Katowice and the world championship when it's convenient. I think there's a good chance this retroactively gets called a 'world championship' at some point in the future.
On November 11 2023 04:01 Balnazza wrote: First of all: Great news and even better to have more clearance about the World Championships!
However, it is an odd choice (atleast for now) to split the Word Championships from Katowice again. On one hand it means more SC2 and more prizemoney, but with this new plan the actual EPT Finals will be so late, they basically cramped two years into one Tour. And those Tour finals will definetly have other seeding rules than before, since IEM Katowice alone will award the Top 4 with an invite and that third Masters in Dallas will also give out spots - and not to mention how potential new GSLs will fit into all of that. Basically, the originally planned out "Tour Guide" is more or less obsolete now.
Lastly, I'm a bit afraid they will put the EPT Finals into that new Gamers8 event. That would be a huge downside to all of this
IEM have always played it a bit fast and loose with their branding, conflating or separating IEM Katowice and the world championship when it's convenient. I think there's a good chance this retroactively gets called a 'world championship' at some point in the future.
I didn't mean the particular branding, but that Katowice isn't the EPT Finals anymore, same as during the WCS era. If Katowice is called Global/Grand Finals or not doesn't really matter, that really mostly PR back in the day
Weird to not have Katowice be the world championship, but i'm fine with it, makes more sense to have just 1 world championship a year.
Also, i just remembered how amazing and intense the games at Gamers8 was, i guess because of the higher prize pool. Players were trying so much harder and doing all these little things that they normally don't feel motivated enough to push themselves to do, i guess (tiny little harasses and trying to make more plays). It led to so much more exciting games, reminiscent of the earlier SC2 years when there was a lot of glory on the line.
If it's the official world championship, then Gamers8 might be even more intense this year!
On November 11 2023 06:45 Luolis wrote: So looks like the real world championship tournament will be played in the Saudi Gamers8 thing. That fucking sucks, and i hate that the only reason that sc2 will be alive next year is some oil prince from a terrible country.
Ever since Nolan Bushnell and Mattel Electronics in the 1970s the video game industry has been super scummy. i hope this isn't some big shock to you.
Why do you guys sound surprised that the finals are going to be held in Saudi? ESL is owned by Savvy Games Group which is owned by Saudi Arabia. If you don't like it, get out of eSports. It's tiring reading the Internet complain about Saudi Arabia or China.
On November 12 2023 14:25 geokilla wrote: It's tiring reading the Internet complain about Saudi Arabia or China.
If you don't like it, get out.
I'll make a more constructive response to this back and forth with 2 people clearly talking past each other.
On November 12 2023 18:57 Balnazza wrote: If you don't like it, get out.
good point man. Modern gaming can be exhausting with many participants spending too much time in front of a screen and not enough time outside surrounded by trees and sun and water. I'm on my deck as I type this.
For esports I often turn to EA NHL '94. female rights and LBGT rights in Saudi Arabia is never a discussion topic. There is no cheating. We have fun and go home. The last EA NHL '94 event I attended in late September was an absolute blast.
There are plenty of esports where discussions about defining what is and what is not a human rights violation don't occur. Check one of them out.
On November 12 2023 18:57 Balnazza wrote: If you don't like it, get out.
good point man. Modern gaming can be exhausting with many participants spending too much time in front of a screen and not enough time outside surrounded by trees and sun and water. I'm on my deck as I type this.
For esports I often turn to EA NHL '94. female rights and LBGT rights in Saudi Arabia is never a discussion topic. There is no cheating. We have fun and go home. The last EA NHL '94 event I attended in late September was an absolute blast.
There are plenty of esports where discussions about defining what is and what is not a human rights violation don't occur. Check one of them out.
In what kind of canadian heaven are you living to chill on your deck mid-november?
On November 11 2023 06:45 Luolis wrote: So looks like the real world championship tournament will be played in the Saudi Gamers8 thing. That fucking sucks, and i hate that the only reason that sc2 will be alive next year is some oil prince from a terrible country.
Call the prince terrible, not an entire country of people.
I call the nation terrible, not the people. Just like i would call Russia a terrible nation, while i wouldnt say all Russians are terrible people.
xd donkey
"nation, n. (14c) 1. A large group of people having a common origin, language, and tradition "
I mean specifically the actions of the country and it's government. English isnt my first language so i might make mistakes, but know that i really dont mean to say that every Saudi person is bad, just that the country makes awful decisions.
Glad to see you support modern day slavery and supporting terrorism though!
On November 13 2023 19:29 PlanktonAgreeable776 wrote: Explain me modern day slavery in more detail and how do i support terrorism, pls and btw yes english is my 3th language cause we dont learn eng in school 30yrs ago, but im still interested in how you shape your opinion, so tell me why i support terrorism and modern day slavery, enlighten me
Cause you attacked them in obvious bad faith over linguistic details when it was blatantly obvious what they were expressing, it can only be assumed that you are in general support of the actions of the mentioned countries' governments, which qualify as modern day slavery and/or terrorism
The ESL tourney I just watched is sponsored by US Marines and Monster Energy >> Unjustified wars and drone strikes in that same part of the world, psy-ops and medical apartheid. Then radioactive sugar water to help degenerate modern day wage slaves get out of bed every morning to sit on their office chairs.
Life is better when you stop pretending to care about every detail uploaded into your brain through your daily morning/bedtime reddit ritual. Maybe best to go open some loot boxes and write some fan fics and leave the world politics to those more invested/better equipped.
the $500 USD for each group stage win is a great idea! Hopefully, a player guaranteed to move on and a player guaranteed to be eliminated don't make a handshake deal to have a long series by trading wins though.
On November 14 2023 09:05 SharkStarcraft wrote: great news for the great game of sc2 lately!
it is great! i am pumped. i will prolly go to Dreamhack Dallas even though it is really hot in June. ESL is using this "The Storm is Coming" as the tag line of their promo. I prefer the tag line "Winter Is Coming". A Promo something like "Winter Is Coming... War Is Here" would be awesome.
Winter Is Coming... And we know what is coming with it. There is a price for everything. Are you willing to push yourself beyond the horizon to accomoplish the impossible? Some fear the cold. Some fear the loss. There is no shame in fear. It is how one faces fear that determines bravery. This event chronicles the journey of a man searching to find his former self... Winter Is Coming... War Is Here
On November 12 2023 14:25 geokilla wrote: Why do you guys sound surprised that the finals are going to be held in Saudi? ESL is owned by Savvy Games Group which is owned by Saudi Arabia. If you don't like it, get out of eSports. It's tiring reading the Internet complain about Saudi Arabia or China.
No more tiring than Saudi Arabia throwing money at basically every recreational activity that I follow, to little resistance in an effort to improve its image.
And really just the image part, if it was doing that simultaneously with various reforms I’d have far less issue with it.
On November 12 2023 14:25 geokilla wrote: Why do you guys sound surprised that the finals are going to be held in Saudi? ESL is owned by Savvy Games Group which is owned by Saudi Arabia. If you don't like it, get out of eSports. It's tiring reading the Internet complain about Saudi Arabia or China.
No more tiring than Saudi Arabia throwing money at basically every recreational activity that I follow, to little resistance in an effort to improve its image.
And really just the image part, if it was doing that simultaneously with various reforms I’d have far less issue with it.
it is to diversify their portfolio. Seen another way. If you're a Canadian multi-billionaire do you want all your money and assets stuck in say... Quebec? No way man. You want assets and money all over the world in case something stupid happens in Quebec. Likewise, Saudi Arabia is ruled by force. How will the regime fall? Prolly by force. The ruling family doesn't want all their wealth locked up in Saudi Arabia or any one single country for that matter.
Also, I do not think it improves their image. It makes the people they deal with look worse. Every one who takes their money pays lip service to being against sexism and pro lbgt rights. These people "talk the talk." They do not "walk the walk". Personally, the way 2023 western media frames lgbt issues and women's rights i do not think they are important issues. So I watch the games.
From a consumer perspective one can just pick another competitive game to play. There are dozens of community run competitive games to choose from. Just from my experience alone there is C&C: Red ALert 3, EA NHL '94, Super Tecmo Bowl, Tecmo Bowl, Fire Pro Wrestling, Company of Heroes 2. I am sure there are many dozens more.
Community run games with zero corporate funding bring back the pure fun of video games because the prize money is so low everyone has full time jobs. They just play for fun. Playing as a job really takes the silly-stupid fun out of the hobby. I like watching it... but they participants sure don't look like they are having much fun. Just look at all the gnashing of teeth and never ending rage filled debates about balance issues in games with big corp funding.
On November 12 2023 14:25 geokilla wrote: Why do you guys sound surprised that the finals are going to be held in Saudi? ESL is owned by Savvy Games Group which is owned by Saudi Arabia. If you don't like it, get out of eSports. It's tiring reading the Internet complain about Saudi Arabia or China.
No more tiring than Saudi Arabia throwing money at basically every recreational activity that I follow, to little resistance in an effort to improve its image.
And really just the image part, if it was doing that simultaneously with various reforms I’d have far less issue with it.
it is to diversify their portfolio. Seen another way. If you're a Canadian multi-billionaire do you want all your money and assets stuck in say... Quebec? No way man. You want assets and money all over the world in case something stupid happens in Quebec. Likewise, Saudi Arabia is ruled by force. How will the regime fall? Prolly by force. The ruling family doesn't want all their wealth locked up in Saudi Arabia or any one single country for that matter.
Also, I do not think it improves their image. It makes the people they deal with look worse. Every one who takes their money pays lip service to being against sexism and pro lbgt rights. These people "talk the talk." They do not "walk the walk". Personally, the way 2023 western media frames lgbt issues and women's rights i do not think they are important issues. So I watch the games.
From a consumer perspective one can just pick another competitive game to play. There are dozens of community run competitive games to choose from. Just from my experience alone there is C&C: Red ALert 3, EA NHL '94, Super Tecmo Bowl, Tecmo Bowl, Fire Pro Wrestling, Company of Heroes 2. I am sure there are many dozens more.
Community run games with zero corporate funding bring back the pure fun of video games because the prize money is so low everyone has full time jobs. They just play for fun. Playing as a job really takes the silly-stupid fun out of the hobby. I like watching it... but they participants sure don't look like they are having much fun. Just look at all the gnashing of teeth and never ending rage filled debates about balance issues in games with big corp funding.
Reputation burnishing is very much the calculus here, amid yes a wider diversification.
Whether it is a successful exercise is another thing entirely. It gives people shiny entertainment sure, on the flip side it also publicises human rights issues to a whole new audience, Qatar certainly found this when they hosted the World Cup
I imagine this aspect is slightly less palatable to Europeans who are into sport given prior takeovers of cherished sporting institutions by Saudi Arabia and previously the likes of Qatar and the UAE.
They’re not making money here, they’re losing fistfuls of it. Because that’s not really the purpose of the whole project.
The entry into eSports is chump change in comparison, hey maybe there is some intent to profitability.
I ageee that grass roots vidya is absolutely where it’s at, and perhaps the wider industry and many punters have maybe lost sight of that in lieu of chasing the eSports dragon. Although there is something special in watching the kind of levels you only really get through stable professionalism and that can be thrilling too.
SC2 and an increasing number of games have the problem in their clients being so locked down that they’re absolutely dependent on the developer or ESL to do anything and I think you’re already seeing a whole generation of games that will drop down and will struggle to have any grass roots maintenance, which is a huge pity
EPT
![[image loading]](/staff/Waxangel/EPT/Katowice2024/katowicequalifiers.jpg)
