EPTI can't wait to hear how ESL's production just pretends like it isn't a problem. Good thing Oliveira is the kind of player that plays better when he's the underdog.
Oliveira unable to attend ESL Summer + ESL response - Page 8
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Update: ESL's Alex007 has given an official response: https://tl.net/forum/starcraft-2/612805-oliveira-unable-to-attend-esl-summer?page=5#93 | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16097 Posts
I can't wait to hear how ESL's production just pretends like it isn't a problem. Good thing Oliveira is the kind of player that plays better when he's the underdog. | ||
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taeja1412
1 Post
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CiuCiu
31 Posts
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Creager
Germany1919 Posts
On June 15 2023 06:52 Alex007 wrote: Hello, As a Product Manager responsible for ESL SC2 Pro Tour, I would like to jump in here, clarify what happened and what are we going to do for this to never happen again. Firstly, before I jump into actual stuff, I would like to make a deep apology to the entire community - we ourselves are big SC2 fans and we are equally upset about Oliveira and Coffee not being able to attend the event. We know that this is extremely frustrating for the players, for the fans and for the whole community. For me it doesn't matter if it's 10% our fault vs 90% unfortunate set of events or the exact opposite - I treat this as my personal mistake as it is clear that we could have handled this situation better. Moving to the actual stuff, this is what happened: 1. Oliveira had locked in his slot on May 21st, Coffee has technically locked in his slot on May 25th but it was still obvious on May 21st that he's gonna get the slot. 2. Our invitational letters have been prepared within two days, then printed and signed within the next day and then sent on May 25th. 3. The person working for the parcel service assured us that they were going to use the fastest possible way of delivery. We were told that the package was set to arrive in China on May 31st at latest. 4. The package has indeed arrived in China on May 31st but was stuck at customs and therefore reached out its destination too late. 5. We contacted the embassy to try speed up the visa application process for Oliveira and Coffee, but this is not the area where any result can be guaranteed - and this didn't work out this time. So, what am I going to do for this to never happen again. I feel the biggest mistake from our side was actually waiting for the outcome of the Regionals to start sending the invitational letters - for the Winter finals in Atlanta and onwards, our plan will be to gather players' applications as early as possible and start sending the invitational letters 2 months in advance before the event. Whatever happens with customs, parcel services, embassies and any other stakeholders, we should be in a much safer spot than with the approach we've taken for the Summer season. Lastly, I would still like to clarify that we need to respect the tournament integrity and we absolutely cannot allow any players to participate in the Summer finals remotely as this decision will harm every other player attending the event and create an unfair competitive envinronment. Coffee and Oliveira not receiving the letter in time is the mistake we cannot fix and I'm as disappointed about this as you all are. With all this said, the whole team is working really hard to bring the best possible show to life and I hope you will still enjoy our Summer finals starting on Friday. Thank you! Thanks for the reply and clarification, it's appreciated! | ||
BisuDagger
Bisutopia19298 Posts
On June 15 2023 20:36 Vindicare605 wrote: What I can't wait for is the inevitable Katowice standings where both players even if they qualify get absolutely fucked over by the seedings because they straight up didn't get credit for an ENTIRE offline event that they did everything they needed to do to qualify for. I can't wait to hear how ESL's production just pretends like it isn't a problem. Good thing Oliveira is the kind of player that plays better when he's the underdog. I think they should be gifted points they would get if they advanced one round plus they should be gifted points equal to the ones earned by their replacements. That would give the fans extra incentive to cheer for Has and Kelazhur. | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16097 Posts
On June 15 2023 21:53 BisuDagger wrote: I think they should be gifted points they would get if they advanced one round plus they should be gifted points equal to the ones earned by their replacements. That would give the fans extra incentive to cheer for Has and Kelazhur. Yea that sounds reasonable, but why do I get this feeling that they won't be compensated at all and ESL is just going to hope we all forget about it? | ||
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Master of DalK
Canada1801 Posts
On June 15 2023 06:52 Alex007 wrote: [...] So, what am I going to do for this to never happen again. I feel the biggest mistake from our side was actually waiting for the outcome of the Regionals to start sending the invitational letters - for the Winter finals in Atlanta and onwards, our plan will be to gather players' applications as early as possible and start sending the invitational letters 2 months in advance before the event. Whatever happens with customs, parcel services, embassies and any other stakeholders, we should be in a much safer spot than with the approach we've taken for the Summer season. Lastly, I would still like to clarify that we need to respect the tournament integrity and we absolutely cannot allow any players to participate in the Summer finals remotely as this decision will harm every other player attending the event and create an unfair competitive envinronment. Coffee and Oliveira not receiving the letter in time is the mistake we cannot fix and I'm as disappointed about this as you all are. [...] As someone in the space too, I've been there before. Sometimes customs holds on to something and you get owned for absolutely no reason. It sucks for sure. Quite honestly I wouldn't be surprised if even a 2 month runaway still inevitably runs into this issue again in the future just because of the nature of political systems at work, but at that point there's nothing that can be done but shrug and say "it is what it is". While planning further in advance helps in the future for sure, I'm not sure that you and EFG are doing enough in the present to help solve the issue for the players who are the ones that are getting fucked beyond imagination right now to virtually no fault of their own. I understand you seem to disagree with remote play for tournament integrity reasons, to which while I probably disagree - there's enough argument there to make sense. However the biggest issue at hand is the EPT Points and prize money that especially Oliveira is going to be missing out on due to not making it to DHS. What is EFG aiming to do to compensate the players for mistakes that they couldn't solve? If the answer is nothing, then the community backlash will end up tainting this tournament more than likely, if there is something I hope its actually good enough to make up for the situation or else the constant back and forth of mistakes being made leading into community backlash is only going to make things worse. We're all just here to watch people play video games at a level we'll never be able to get to man. We're pissed we're not going to get to see that anymore, that's all this boils down to. | ||
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Balnazza
Germany1237 Posts
On June 15 2023 20:30 Elantris wrote: ESL fucked up and as a result should allow Oliveira and Coffee to compete online. But they don't want to so ESL deserves all the blame. Because no one is allowed to play online...it really isn't that hard, please keep up... I would agree that Olieira and Coffee should get the points they would have gotten for attending the event, but nothing more. Imagine (especially for Coffee) at the end of the year he qualifies to Worlds just by the points some people want him to get for free here...it would be a huge hit to the integrity aswell. It is a shitty situation, but as I said before: You can't clear up a mess with another mess. So as hard as it is, don't award extra points. If anything, maybe give out some additional points for the second Asia stage or something | ||
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HaPee
3 Posts
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MJG
United Kingdom1328 Posts
On June 15 2023 19:58 Elantris wrote: It seems that it is ESL who irrationally hates Chinese. Never assume malice when incompetence is an equally valid explanation. | ||
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mintyminmus
Australia127 Posts
But how can you not be prepared for most likely outcome. If someone actually beats Oliveria in Asia regional that guy is just going to be more certain to have his visa declined. | ||
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Rob-Zero
Germany460 Posts
Even after a lengthy explanation, an apology and even some kind words from Oliveira himself there are so much people here complaining and being rude. Obviously all of them never did anything wrong! You guys should absolutely be ashamed of yourselves and of the shit you are posting here all day long. | ||
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tigera6
3434 Posts
On June 16 2023 01:28 Rob-Zero wrote: WOW. After all these years i am still astonished how arrogant and toxic the sc2 Community is! Even after a lengthy explanation, an apology and even some kind words from Oliveira himself there are so much people here complaining and being rude. Obviously all of them never did anything wrong! You guys should absolutely be ashamed of yourselves and of the shit you are posting here all day long. While I completely dont see this being intentional, and do agree that some people went way overboard with their accusation. To say "all of them never did anything wrong" is entirely BULLSHIT. Its the lack of care, and incompetence is at fault here. And we all know who that belong to, right? Dont tell me a multi-million professional tournament organizer could never see this coming, because they should have. A public apology is the LEAST one can do in this situation, because it is warranted, but the explanation doesnt make it more acceptable neither. We all get angry, and disappointed at the situation, but at the same time all of us will move on eventually. But if you think trying to hold somebody or some party accountable for their failure at doing their job is "toxic", then you never see the world for the way it is, just how you want it to be. | ||
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Rob-Zero
Germany460 Posts
ESL of course did mistakes, that is why they apologized already. And there is no benefit in seeing the world only as it is. I strive for improvement and politeness. And i dont see any point why i shouldn't. Is it so hard to be reasonable and somewhat nice especially in a situation like this? Does it make anything better when everyone shouts angrily at others because of a mistake? Don't think so. | ||
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Brutaxilos
United States2630 Posts
On June 15 2023 22:40 Balnazza wrote: Because no one is allowed to play online...it really isn't that hard, please keep up... Bunny and DRG were allowed to play GSL online last year after they got Covid from Valencia and couldn't get back to Korea. Oliveira and Coffee absolutely could do this. ESL is just being lazy. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26006 Posts
On June 16 2023 02:03 tigera6 wrote: While I completely dont see this being intentional, and do agree that some people went way overboard with their accusation. To say "all of them never did anything wrong" is entirely BULLSHIT. Its the lack of care, and incompetence is at fault here. And we all know who that belong to, right? Dont tell me a multi-million professional tournament organizer could never see this coming, because they should have. A public apology is the LEAST one can do in this situation, because it is warranted, but the explanation doesnt make it more acceptable neither. We all get angry, and disappointed at the situation, but at the same time all of us will move on eventually. But if you think trying to hold somebody or some party accountable for their failure at doing their job is "toxic", then you never see the world for the way it is, just how you want it to be. Sure, but malice, incompetence and all that. I’ve no issue with people rightly holding ESL over the fire for a fuckup. Equally when it gets to borderline conspiracy theories that the organisation hates the Chinese scene, or conspires in favour of Europeans vs them and Koreans it starts to get a bit baseless and yes, somewhat toxic. | ||
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JoePlank3
United States7 Posts
On June 16 2023 02:28 Rob-Zero wrote: I meant all of the complainers never did any mistake in their lives, because anyone would only have the right to behave like this if they never did anything wrong. I'm being sarcastic here, obviously. ESL of course did mistakes, that is why they apologized already. And there is no benefit in seeing the world only as it is. I strive for improvement and politeness. And i dont see any point why i shouldn't. Is it so hard to be reasonable and somewhat nice especially in a situation like this? Does it make anything better when everyone shouts angrily at others because of a mistake? Don't think so. If you'd know even Alex's long explanation is actually kind of shirking their responsibility,you would still think so? Let's see. This is from Alex007's response: " 1. Oliveira had locked in his slot on May 21st, Coffee has technically locked in his slot on May 25th but it was still obvious on May 21st that he's gonna get the slot. 2. Our invitational letters have been prepared within two days, then printed and signed within the next day and then sent on May 25th. 3. The person working for the parcel service assured us that they were going to use the fastest possible way of delivery. We were told that the package was set to arrive in China on May 31st at latest. 4. The package has indeed arrived in China on May 31st but was stuck at customs and therefore reached out its destination too late. 5. We contacted the embassy to try speed up the visa application process for Oliveira and Coffee, but this is not the area where any result can be guaranteed - and this didn't work out this time." So according to 3.4. seems ESL already made enough effort to make the delivery of the invitation letter ASAP ,but it stuck at China customs.Ok,China customs is the bad guy here. But interesting thing is,we already got the tracking record from coffee.Hard to put an image here but I can explain it: The package was processed at Shanghai customs in Shanghai customs,beginning 2023-05-30 07:41 ,end 2023-06-01 00:54 Then it was taken to transportation.For Coffee's invitation letter ,there's another customs process beginning 2023-06-03 08:46,end 2023-06-03 13:05 ,while for Oliveira it's just transportation. So you can see even for Coffee's two phase customs process it only took less than 24 hours in total. THE PACKAGE DIDN'T STUCK AT CUSTOMS AT ALL! What made the transportation so slow that Oliveira and Coffee couldn't receive it until 06-05? The slow transportation from Regular EMS package delivery service.Even with DKZ manager Hyperion consistently pushing ESL contact from 05-22 until 05-25,ESL still chose a regular delivery service. It's quoted that if ESL could have use DHL/UPS,it could arrive much sooner. See?Even Alex's explanation is trying to shirk their mistakes. Another ironic news came yesterday as the Sweden consulate just called both players that their VISA were about to be ready.So now we realize that ,it's only two days late ,for the whole thing. What a pity. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26006 Posts
On June 16 2023 03:14 Brutaxilos wrote: Bunny and DRG were allowed to play GSL online last year after they got Covid from Valencia and couldn't get back to Korea. Oliveira and Coffee absolutely could do this. ESL is just being lazy. It’s probably more effort if anything to get the replacements in. It’s a frustrating decision. I guess there’s no perfect solution here, but that seems the best one given it wasn’t the players’ fault, they earned their spots fair and square and the added hype of having the reigning champion of the world in the bracket | ||
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desuduesdeus
Germany18 Posts
On June 15 2023 18:29 fLyiNgDroNe wrote: I don't know if its reading or math that is failing you, but ok, here it is again: [...] May 21st - Oliveira qualifies [...] May 25th - letters are sent to the Embassy Not sure why you quote back the timeline to repeat make the point I made? They delayed four days to send Oliveira's invite out, and also put it in the same envelope with another invite. That's two super amateur mistakes. Yes, even with the hurdle of having to print out the invite, on paper and sign it, with a pen. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18112 Posts
On June 15 2023 19:42 BisuDagger wrote: It’s really surprising that it took this long to realize invitations should be sent out as soon as possible instead of waiting for qualifiers to finish. Hopefully, with this issue acknowledged, this won’t happen again. It’d be really nice if ESL put on an online show match somewhere during the ESL broadcast, for the two players who couldn’t make it. I’d even put it between the semifinals and finals just to highlight the love we have for them. This is such a great suggestion. Alex's apology and action plan to avoid this for the future is imho a good step to avoid this type of fiasco going forward. An online showmatch, preceded by an ,on-stage apology to their (now probably non-existent) Chinese audience, and global audience for the absence of their world champion, would be a decent way to show their appreciation for these players and their fans. And, of course, an award of the EPT points for a top 16 spot, which they would have had otherwise. | ||
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