Oliveira unable to attend ESL Summer + ESL response

On June 14 2023 02:12 Higgy wrote:
It seems quite wired since chinese community assumed that esl send the mail late intentional so that Oliveira can not get a championship again. It doesn't make sense, in that case korean players would never get a chance to play any tournament out side Korea right?

On June 14 2023 02:00 digmouse wrote:
OK so this is not even the first time this happened, I think?

On June 14 2023 02:19 11cc wrote:
If this was because of ESL mistake, they should still join and play their games online.

On June 14 2023 02:46 Zaros wrote:
You would have thought there was some kind of priority to getting the World fucking champion to events.

On June 14 2023 09:45 CicadaSC wrote:
why does he need a visit? just go as a tourist for vacation and dont disclose that you will be making money. ez.

On June 14 2023 02:46 WGT-Baal wrote:


this, ESL has always been a mess, it s kinda sad they dont seem to learn from it and improve but I can't say I m surprised. It sucks for the players involved though

On June 14 2023 09:45 CicadaSC wrote:
why does he need a visit? just go as a tourist for vacation and dont disclose that you will be making money. ez.

On June 14 2023 12:17 Evilmj wrote:

It seems Zombiegrub also GG.：I
ESL misspelled her name, which invalidated the ticket.

On June 14 2023 12:17 Evilmj wrote:

It seems Zombiegrub also GG.：I
ESL misspelled her name, which invalidated the ticket.

On June 14 2023 12:17 Evilmj wrote:

It seems Zombiegrub also GG.：I

ESL misspelled her name, which invalidated the ticket.

On June 14 2023 03:54 dbRic1203 wrote:
That Prozess at esl seems like an absolute mess.
Tjey should have the invitation ready within hours after the regionals are done.

They could even pre sign them a couple days before, if it somehow is a longer process and just put all the unnecessary once in the trash. Then they could send out invitations the same day the regionals finish.
How is it the players (manager) responsibility to get ESL to send these Letters is insane as well.
It should be well known by now, what is needed for Chinese players to attend.

On June 14 2023 18:54 ZombieGrub wrote:


Had no idea rumors were circulating lol. I did tell my chat they misspelled my name so I wasn't sure of being able to choose seats etc but a single letter was fixed at check in.

On June 14 2023 18:34 cosmo331 wrote:
Guys, we should put up signs saying sth like "Where is the world champ" during the event

On June 14 2023 22:21 geokilla wrote:
Why are there so many new accounts posting here?

On June 15 2023 01:09 Master of DalK wrote:
big yikers if what hyperion said is true (which i am inclined to believe)

On June 15 2023 06:52 Alex007 wrote:
Lastly, I would still like to clarify that we need to respect the tournament integrity and we absolutely cannot allow any players to participate in the Summer finals remotely as this decision will harm every other player attending the event and create an unfair competitive envinronment. Coffee and Oliveira not receiving the letter in time is the mistake we cannot fix and I'm as disappointed about this as you all are.

On June 15 2023 06:52 Alex007 wrote:
Hello,

As a Product Manager responsible for ESL SC2 Pro Tour, I would like to jump in here, clarify what happened and what are we going to do for this to never happen again.

Firstly, before I jump into actual stuff, I would like to make a deep apology to the entire community - we ourselves are big SC2 fans and we are equally upset about Oliveira and Coffee not being able to attend the event. We know that this is extremely frustrating for the players, for the fans and for the whole community. For me it doesn't matter if it's 10% our fault vs 90% unfortunate set of events or the exact opposite - I treat this as my personal mistake as it is clear that we could have handled this situation better.

Moving to the actual stuff, this is what happened:
1. Oliveira had locked in his slot on May 21st, Coffee has technically locked in his slot on May 25th but it was still obvious on May 21st that he's gonna get the slot.
2. Our invitational letters have been prepared within two days, then printed and signed within the next day and then sent on May 25th.
3. The person working for the parcel service assured us that they were going to use the fastest possible way of delivery. We were told that the package was set to arrive in China on May 31st at latest.
4. The package has indeed arrived in China on May 31st but was stuck at customs and therefore reached out its destination too late.
5. We contacted the embassy to try speed up the visa application process for Oliveira and Coffee, but this is not the area where any result can be guaranteed - and this didn't work out this time.

So, what am I going to do for this to never happen again. I feel the biggest mistake from our side was actually waiting for the outcome of the Regionals to start sending the invitational letters - for the Winter finals in Atlanta and onwards, our plan will be to gather players' applications as early as possible and start sending the invitational letters 2 months in advance before the event. Whatever happens with customs, parcel services, embassies and any other stakeholders, we should be in a much safer spot than with the approach we've taken for the Summer season.

Lastly, I would still like to clarify that we need to respect the tournament integrity and we absolutely cannot allow any players to participate in the Summer finals remotely as this decision will harm every other player attending the event and create an unfair competitive envinronment. Coffee and Oliveira not receiving the letter in time is the mistake we cannot fix and I'm as disappointed about this as you all are.

With all this said, the whole team is working really hard to bring the best possible show to life and I hope you will still enjoy our Summer finals starting on Friday. Thank you!

On June 15 2023 06:52 Alex007 wrote:
Hello,

As a Product Manager responsible for ESL SC2 Pro Tour, I would like to jump in here, clarify what happened and what are we going to do for this to never happen again.

Firstly, before I jump into actual stuff, I would like to make a deep apology to the entire community - we ourselves are big SC2 fans and we are equally upset about Oliveira and Coffee not being able to attend the event. We know that this is extremely frustrating for the players, for the fans and for the whole community. For me it doesn't matter if it's 10% our fault vs 90% unfortunate set of events or the exact opposite - I treat this as my personal mistake as it is clear that we could have handled this situation better.

Moving to the actual stuff, this is what happened:
1. Oliveira had locked in his slot on May 21st, Coffee has technically locked in his slot on May 25th but it was still obvious on May 21st that he's gonna get the slot.
2. Our invitational letters have been prepared within two days, then printed and signed within the next day and then sent on May 25th.
3. The person working for the parcel service assured us that they were going to use the fastest possible way of delivery. We were told that the package was set to arrive in China on May 31st at latest.
4. The package has indeed arrived in China on May 31st but was stuck at customs and therefore reached out its destination too late.
5. We contacted the embassy to try speed up the visa application process for Oliveira and Coffee, but this is not the area where any result can be guaranteed - and this didn't work out this time.

So, what am I going to do for this to never happen again. I feel the biggest mistake from our side was actually waiting for the outcome of the Regionals to start sending the invitational letters - for the Winter finals in Atlanta and onwards, our plan will be to gather players' applications as early as possible and start sending the invitational letters 2 months in advance before the event. Whatever happens with customs, parcel services, embassies and any other stakeholders, we should be in a much safer spot than with the approach we've taken for the Summer season.

Lastly, I would still like to clarify that we need to respect the tournament integrity and we absolutely cannot allow any players to participate in the Summer finals remotely as this decision will harm every other player attending the event and create an unfair competitive envinronment. Coffee and Oliveira not receiving the letter in time is the mistake we cannot fix and I'm as disappointed about this as you all are.

With all this said, the whole team is working really hard to bring the best possible show to life and I hope you will still enjoy our Summer finals starting on Friday. Thank you!

On June 15 2023 06:52 Alex007 wrote:
Lastly, I would still like to clarify that we need to respect the tournament integrity and we absolutely cannot allow any players to participate in the Summer finals remotely as this decision will harm every other player attending the event and create an unfair competitive envinronment. Coffee and Oliveira not receiving the letter in time is the mistake we cannot fix and I'm as disappointed about this as you all are.

On June 15 2023 08:23 Balnazza wrote:


It is really nothing new, China has always been a nightmare when it came down to visa. I remember WC3 teamleagues in 2006 that couldn't get chinese players anywhere because of visa issues. I think I vaguely remember a player not being able to get a visa even though he applied two months in advance back then

On June 15 2023 06:52 Alex007 wrote:
Hello,

As a Product Manager responsible for ESL SC2 Pro Tour, I would like to jump in here, clarify what happened and what are we going to do for this to never happen again.

Firstly, before I jump into actual stuff, I would like to make a deep apology to the entire community - we ourselves are big SC2 fans and we are equally upset about Oliveira and Coffee not being able to attend the event. We know that this is extremely frustrating for the players, for the fans and for the whole community. For me it doesn't matter if it's 10% our fault vs 90% unfortunate set of events or the exact opposite - I treat this as my personal mistake as it is clear that we could have handled this situation better.

Moving to the actual stuff, this is what happened:
1. Oliveira had locked in his slot on May 21st, Coffee has technically locked in his slot on May 25th but it was still obvious on May 21st that he's gonna get the slot.
2. Our invitational letters have been prepared within two days, then printed and signed within the next day and then sent on May 25th.
3. The person working for the parcel service assured us that they were going to use the fastest possible way of delivery. We were told that the package was set to arrive in China on May 31st at latest.
4. The package has indeed arrived in China on May 31st but was stuck at customs and therefore reached out its destination too late.
5. We contacted the embassy to try speed up the visa application process for Oliveira and Coffee, but this is not the area where any result can be guaranteed - and this didn't work out this time.

So, what am I going to do for this to never happen again. I feel the biggest mistake from our side was actually waiting for the outcome of the Regionals to start sending the invitational letters - for the Winter finals in Atlanta and onwards, our plan will be to gather players' applications as early as possible and start sending the invitational letters 2 months in advance before the event. Whatever happens with customs, parcel services, embassies and any other stakeholders, we should be in a much safer spot than with the approach we've taken for the Summer season.

Lastly, I would still like to clarify that we need to respect the tournament integrity and we absolutely cannot allow any players to participate in the Summer finals remotely as this decision will harm every other player attending the event and create an unfair competitive envinronment. Coffee and Oliveira not receiving the letter in time is the mistake we cannot fix and I'm as disappointed about this as you all are.

With all this said, the whole team is working really hard to bring the best possible show to life and I hope you will still enjoy our Summer finals starting on Friday. Thank you!

On June 15 2023 08:41 JJH777 wrote:


What is the solution to them being missing then? I can't imagine anything worse for "tournament integrity" than allowing 6 straight up byes. Two players being online is definitely far more fair than that.

On June 15 2023 06:52 Alex007 wrote:
Hello,

As a Product Manager responsible for ESL SC2 Pro Tour, I would like to jump in here, clarify what happened and what are we going to do for this to never happen again.

Firstly, before I jump into actual stuff, I would like to make a deep apology to the entire community - we ourselves are big SC2 fans and we are equally upset about Oliveira and Coffee not being able to attend the event. We know that this is extremely frustrating for the players, for the fans and for the whole community. For me it doesn't matter if it's 10% our fault vs 90% unfortunate set of events or the exact opposite - I treat this as my personal mistake as it is clear that we could have handled this situation better.

Moving to the actual stuff, this is what happened:
1. Oliveira had locked in his slot on May 21st, Coffee has technically locked in his slot on May 25th but it was still obvious on May 21st that he's gonna get the slot.
2. Our invitational letters have been prepared within two days, then printed and signed within the next day and then sent on May 25th.
3. The person working for the parcel service assured us that they were going to use the fastest possible way of delivery. We were told that the package was set to arrive in China on May 31st at latest.
4. The package has indeed arrived in China on May 31st but was stuck at customs and therefore reached out its destination too late.
5. We contacted the embassy to try speed up the visa application process for Oliveira and Coffee, but this is not the area where any result can be guaranteed - and this didn't work out this time.

So, what am I going to do for this to never happen again. I feel the biggest mistake from our side was actually waiting for the outcome of the Regionals to start sending the invitational letters - for the Winter finals in Atlanta and onwards, our plan will be to gather players' applications as early as possible and start sending the invitational letters 2 months in advance before the event. Whatever happens with customs, parcel services, embassies and any other stakeholders, we should be in a much safer spot than with the approach we've taken for the Summer season.

Lastly, I would still like to clarify that we need to respect the tournament integrity and we absolutely cannot allow any players to participate in the Summer finals remotely as this decision will harm every other player attending the event and create an unfair competitive envinronment. Coffee and Oliveira not receiving the letter in time is the mistake we cannot fix and I'm as disappointed about this as you all are.

With all this said, the whole team is working really hard to bring the best possible show to life and I hope you will still enjoy our Summer finals starting on Friday. Thank you!

On June 15 2023 09:38 tigera6 wrote:

Kelazhur will replace Coffee and Has replace Oliveira.

On June 15 2023 06:52 Alex007 wrote:
Hello,

As a Product Manager responsible for ESL SC2 Pro Tour, I would like to jump in here, clarify what happened and what are we going to do for this to never happen again.

Firstly, before I jump into actual stuff, I would like to make a deep apology to the entire community - we ourselves are big SC2 fans and we are equally upset about Oliveira and Coffee not being able to attend the event. We know that this is extremely frustrating for the players, for the fans and for the whole community. For me it doesn't matter if it's 10% our fault vs 90% unfortunate set of events or the exact opposite - I treat this as my personal mistake as it is clear that we could have handled this situation better.

Moving to the actual stuff, this is what happened:
1. Oliveira had locked in his slot on May 21st, Coffee has technically locked in his slot on May 25th but it was still obvious on May 21st that he's gonna get the slot.
2. Our invitational letters have been prepared within two days, then printed and signed within the next day and then sent on May 25th.
3. The person working for the parcel service assured us that they were going to use the fastest possible way of delivery. We were told that the package was set to arrive in China on May 31st at latest.
4. The package has indeed arrived in China on May 31st but was stuck at customs and therefore reached out its destination too late.
5. We contacted the embassy to try speed up the visa application process for Oliveira and Coffee, but this is not the area where any result can be guaranteed - and this didn't work out this time.

So, what am I going to do for this to never happen again. I feel the biggest mistake from our side was actually waiting for the outcome of the Regionals to start sending the invitational letters - for the Winter finals in Atlanta and onwards, our plan will be to gather players' applications as early as possible and start sending the invitational letters 2 months in advance before the event. Whatever happens with customs, parcel services, embassies and any other stakeholders, we should be in a much safer spot than with the approach we've taken for the Summer season.

Lastly, I would still like to clarify that we need to respect the tournament integrity and we absolutely cannot allow any players to participate in the Summer finals remotely as this decision will harm every other player attending the event and create an unfair competitive envinronment. Coffee and Oliveira not receiving the letter in time is the mistake we cannot fix and I'm as disappointed about this as you all are.

With all this said, the whole team is working really hard to bring the best possible show to life and I hope you will still enjoy our Summer finals starting on Friday. Thank you!

On June 15 2023 10:16 JJH777 wrote:


Those seem like very random selections... Better than EU getting favored yet again but still not great. Would have much preferred Oli/coffee playing online or the slots being filled via the open bracket.

On June 15 2023 11:28 Balnazza wrote:


Two posts in ca. a year, both about TIME/Oliveira having visa troubles and a TO being "bad"...good quota?

@tigera6
where do you get the information that Kelazhur and Has will replace them? Just based on points or was it announced somewhere?

Has and Nice both finished in the same position in the Asia regional (5th - 8th) and both have the same number of points in the combined standings (170). Shouldn't there have been a playoff between the two? Did Nice decline for some reason?

On June 15 2023 16:57 MJG wrote:
I posted this in the tournament thread, but I should probably ask here as well...


Anyone know?

On June 15 2023 10:17 Vindicare605 wrote:

Oliveira is the reigning world champion. That's why it's making waves.

On June 15 2023 07:47 desuduesdeus wrote:
They held back Oliveira's invite to wait for Coffee to qualify, to send both invites in one package? Only to have that package get stuck in customs? Lmaowtff? Were they trying to save money for stamps??

On June 15 2023 06:52 Alex007 wrote:
I would still like to clarify that we need to respect the tournament integrity and we absolutely cannot allow any players to participate in the Summer finals remotely as this decision will harm every other player attending the event and create an unfair competitive envinronment

On June 15 2023 19:16 Evilmj wrote:


To be fair, ESL didn't allow Maxpax to do this.

On June 15 2023 16:57 MJG wrote:
I posted this in the tournament thread, but I should probably ask here as well...


Anyone know?

On June 15 2023 18:59 Elantris wrote:


Pathetic. Serral/Reynor would be allowed to play online 100%

On June 15 2023 19:46 Chemistry101 wrote:


Can you cite an example of something like this EVER having happened, of was your weird theory motivated by nothing but irrational hatred of Europeans?

On June 15 2023 19:58 Elantris wrote:


It seems that it is ESL who irrationally hates Chinese.

On June 15 2023 20:09 Chemistry101 wrote:


You have already read what happened from both ESL and the Chinese, so as you know, it was a dumb mistake, primarily the mistake being leaving too little time for a process which can take time.

You, on the other hand, are trying to shift anger and blame on completely unrelated parties who don't deserve it. And as I suspected, there are no justifiable reasons behind it, so we are back to the irrational hatred.

On June 15 2023 06:52 Alex007 wrote:
Hello,

As a Product Manager responsible for ESL SC2 Pro Tour, I would like to jump in here, clarify what happened and what are we going to do for this to never happen again.

Firstly, before I jump into actual stuff, I would like to make a deep apology to the entire community - we ourselves are big SC2 fans and we are equally upset about Oliveira and Coffee not being able to attend the event. We know that this is extremely frustrating for the players, for the fans and for the whole community. For me it doesn't matter if it's 10% our fault vs 90% unfortunate set of events or the exact opposite - I treat this as my personal mistake as it is clear that we could have handled this situation better.

Moving to the actual stuff, this is what happened:
1. Oliveira had locked in his slot on May 21st, Coffee has technically locked in his slot on May 25th but it was still obvious on May 21st that he's gonna get the slot.
2. Our invitational letters have been prepared within two days, then printed and signed within the next day and then sent on May 25th.
3. The person working for the parcel service assured us that they were going to use the fastest possible way of delivery. We were told that the package was set to arrive in China on May 31st at latest.
4. The package has indeed arrived in China on May 31st but was stuck at customs and therefore reached out its destination too late.
5. We contacted the embassy to try speed up the visa application process for Oliveira and Coffee, but this is not the area where any result can be guaranteed - and this didn't work out this time.

So, what am I going to do for this to never happen again. I feel the biggest mistake from our side was actually waiting for the outcome of the Regionals to start sending the invitational letters - for the Winter finals in Atlanta and onwards, our plan will be to gather players' applications as early as possible and start sending the invitational letters 2 months in advance before the event. Whatever happens with customs, parcel services, embassies and any other stakeholders, we should be in a much safer spot than with the approach we've taken for the Summer season.

Lastly, I would still like to clarify that we need to respect the tournament integrity and we absolutely cannot allow any players to participate in the Summer finals remotely as this decision will harm every other player attending the event and create an unfair competitive envinronment. Coffee and Oliveira not receiving the letter in time is the mistake we cannot fix and I'm as disappointed about this as you all are.

With all this said, the whole team is working really hard to bring the best possible show to life and I hope you will still enjoy our Summer finals starting on Friday. Thank you!

On June 15 2023 19:58 Elantris wrote:

It seems that it is ESL who irrationally hates Chinese.

On June 16 2023 01:28 Rob-Zero wrote:
WOW. After all these years i am still astonished how arrogant and toxic the sc2 Community is!
Even after a lengthy explanation, an apology and even some kind words from Oliveira himself there are so much people here complaining and being rude.
Obviously all of them never did anything wrong!
You guys should absolutely be ashamed of yourselves and of the shit you are posting here all day long.

On June 15 2023 22:40 Balnazza wrote:


Because no one is allowed to play online...it really isn't that hard, please keep up...

On June 16 2023 02:03 tigera6 wrote:

While I completely dont see this being intentional, and do agree that some people went way overboard with their accusation. To say "all of them never did anything wrong" is entirely BULLSHIT. Its the lack of care, and incompetence is at fault here. And we all know who that belong to, right? Dont tell me a multi-million professional tournament organizer could never see this coming, because they should have.

A public apology is the LEAST one can do in this situation, because it is warranted, but the explanation doesnt make it more acceptable neither. We all get angry, and disappointed at the situation, but at the same time all of us will move on eventually. But if you think trying to hold somebody or some party accountable for their failure at doing their job is "toxic", then you never see the world for the way it is, just how you want it to be.

On June 16 2023 02:28 Rob-Zero wrote:
I meant all of the complainers never did any mistake in their lives, because anyone would only have the right to behave like this if they never did anything wrong. I'm being sarcastic here, obviously.
ESL of course did mistakes, that is why they apologized already.

And there is no benefit in seeing the world only as it is. I strive for improvement and politeness. And i dont see any point why i shouldn't. Is it so hard to be reasonable and somewhat nice especially in a situation like this? Does it make anything better when everyone shouts angrily at others because of a mistake? Don't think so.

On June 16 2023 03:14 Brutaxilos wrote:


Bunny and DRG were allowed to play GSL online last year after they got Covid from Valencia and couldn't get back to Korea. Oliveira and Coffee absolutely could do this. ESL is just being lazy.

On June 15 2023 18:29 fLyiNgDroNe wrote:


I don't know if its reading or math that is failing you, but ok, here it is again:

[...]
May 21st - Oliveira qualifies
[...]
May 25th - letters are sent to the Embassy

On June 15 2023 19:42 BisuDagger wrote:
It’s really surprising that it took this long to realize invitations should be sent out as soon as possible instead of waiting for qualifiers to finish. Hopefully, with this issue acknowledged, this won’t happen again.

It’d be really nice if ESL put on an online show match somewhere during the ESL broadcast, for the two players who couldn’t make it. I’d even put it between the semifinals and finals just to highlight the love we have for them.

On June 16 2023 05:50 Vindicare605 wrote:


What I think matters most is that ESL do something to not unfairly fuck over Oliveira and Coffee for the rest of the year because they now miss out on a gigantic chunk of EPT points because in case you guys forgot all of these tournaments affect the seeding for the end of the year. (And this doesn't even take into consideration if these guys had to cancel flights or lose money on booking arrangements, not to mention, missed opportunities on prize money.)

Apologizing and doing the "we'll do better next time" bit is the obvious bare minimum, if they HADN'T at least done that, then something would be seriously wrong here. Getting ahead of the knock on effects of this screw up now, instead of waiting until Katowice to do something about it would be an actual nice next step.

I don't accept "oh we messed up, sorry the standings will be ruined for the rest of the year" as an acceptable response for something like this. More is needed.

On June 16 2023 06:06 tlnetuser108 wrote:
Of course... the only person who can reliably take down Serral had visa issues. Of course ESL forgot.

On June 16 2023 06:06 tlnetuser108 wrote:
Of course... the only person who can reliably take down Serral had visa issues. Of course ESL forgot.

On June 16 2023 03:19 JoePlank3 wrote:


If you'd know even Alex's long explanation is actually kind of shirking their responsibility,you would still think so?
Let's see.

This is from Alex007's response:
"
1. Oliveira had locked in his slot on May 21st, Coffee has technically locked in his slot on May 25th but it was still obvious on May 21st that he's gonna get the slot.
2. Our invitational letters have been prepared within two days, then printed and signed within the next day and then sent on May 25th.
3. The person working for the parcel service assured us that they were going to use the fastest possible way of delivery. We were told that the package was set to arrive in China on May 31st at latest.
4. The package has indeed arrived in China on May 31st but was stuck at customs and therefore reached out its destination too late.
5. We contacted the embassy to try speed up the visa application process for Oliveira and Coffee, but this is not the area where any result can be guaranteed - and this didn't work out this time."

So according to 3.4. seems ESL already made enough effort to make the delivery of the invitation letter ASAP ,but it stuck at China customs.Ok,China customs is the bad guy here.

But interesting thing is,we already got the tracking record from coffee.Hard to put an image here but I can explain it:

The package was processed at Shanghai customs in Shanghai customs,beginning 2023-05-30 07:41 ,end 2023-06-01 00:54
Then it was taken to transportation.For Coffee's invitation letter ,there's another customs process beginning 2023-06-03 08:46,end 2023-06-03 13:05 ,while for Oliveira it's just transportation.
So you can see even for Coffee's two phase customs process it only took less than 24 hours in total.

THE PACKAGE DIDN'T STUCK AT CUSTOMS AT ALL!

What made the transportation so slow that Oliveira and Coffee couldn't receive it until 06-05? The slow transportation from Regular EMS package delivery service.Even with DKZ manager Hyperion consistently pushing ESL contact from 05-22 until 05-25,ESL still chose a regular delivery service.
It's quoted that if ESL could have use DHL/UPS,it could arrive much sooner.

See?Even Alex's explanation is trying to shirk their mistakes.

Another ironic news came yesterday as the Sweden consulate just called both players that their VISA were about to be ready.So now we realize that ,it's only two days late ,for the whole thing.
What a pity.

On June 16 2023 05:02 Tommy131313 wrote:
Wow, never would have imagined, there are THAT hardcore conspiracy theorists in StarCraft community.

On June 16 2023 06:06 tlnetuser108 wrote:
Of course... the only person who can reliably take down Serral had visa issues. Of course ESL forgot.

On June 16 2023 07:47 Rob-Zero wrote:
IT WAS A LETTER SEND LATE !!
My god, the Internet.

On June 16 2023 07:47 Rob-Zero wrote:


Man, you are putting way too much effort into this. I know nothing of the stuff that is going on behind the scenes, and neither do you. Yah, maybe Alex isn't telling the whole truth. Maybe he tries to protect someone from the staff and maybe he blames himself instead, maybe ESL has less money than last year and so they have less workers for the same amount of work, which leads to mistakes. What do we know?
Still, is it necessary to further blame them even after an apology? Is this really that big, that we have to imagine some new conspiracy theories about it? Really? Can't we just wait and see what happens and what they are doing about it? Why all the anger about an incident that, while being sad and having of course (at best only financial) consequences for Coffee and Oliveira, still did not hurt anyone in a serious way? Blaming ESL for racism and or some sort of matchfixing among other things?
So lets assume Alex lied, like you imply. So what? What do you want? Why are you arguing? Are you offering ANY solutions? Should ESL fire him and all his co workers and should the world deny his existence from now until the Nile dries out? Should Donald Trump take over ESL and hire Hillary Clinton to make ESL great again?
IT WAS A LETTER SEND LATE !!
My god, the Internet.

On June 16 2023 06:04 nojok wrote:

Come on, it's not that big of a deal, some ppl will miss a video game tournament, it sucks for them but whatever.

On June 16 2023 02:28 Rob-Zero wrote:(at best only financial)

On June 16 2023 12:05 tigera6 wrote:
I mean, if somebody throwing a can of paint into your house, you should burn their house down, not just accepting some weak-ass "sorry" statement. At least thats the impression I got from most of the igniting comment around here. Like I said, people will move on from this eventually, but I feel that we are in no right to tell them to chill down neither. Oliveira standing/influence in China SC2 community right now is equal to Serral to EU "fanboys" and Maru to KR "fanboys" (including me) COMBINED. And I know I would be furious if ESL screwed over Maru with shit like this, let them rage.

On June 16 2023 07:47 Rob-Zero wrote:


Man, you are putting way too much effort into this. I know nothing of the stuff that is going on behind the scenes, and neither do you. Yah, maybe Alex isn't telling the whole truth. Maybe he tries to protect someone from the staff and maybe he blames himself instead, maybe ESL has less money than last year and so they have less workers for the same amount of work, which leads to mistakes. What do we know?
Still, is it necessary to further blame them even after an apology? Is this really that big, that we have to imagine some new conspiracy theories about it? Really? Can't we just wait and see what happens and what they are doing about it? Why all the anger about an incident that, while being sad and having of course (at best only financial) consequences for Coffee and Oliveira, still did not hurt anyone in a serious way? Blaming ESL for racism and or some sort of matchfixing among other things?
So lets assume Alex lied, like you imply. So what? What do you want? Why are you arguing? Are you offering ANY solutions? Should ESL fire him and all his co workers and should the world deny his existence from now until the Nile dries out? Should Donald Trump take over ESL and hire Hillary Clinton to make ESL great again?
IT WAS A LETTER SEND LATE !!
My god, the Internet.

On June 16 2023 09:09 JoePlank3 wrote:


First of all ,"I know nothing of the stuff that is going on behind the scenes, and neither do you" is wrong here.We Chinese SC2 Community is always concerning about VISA issue since this has never been smooth for Chinese SC2 proplayers through the years.So we followed with the VISA process from the very beginning this time,we got lot more infomation from Oliveira,Coffee and DKZ team manager Hyperion who's giving much effort help the two applying for the VISA.That's why we know how ESL contact person acted slowly and casually.
Secondly,I'm not the one talking about these conspiracy theory like ESL do this on purpose or anything about racism.I won't assume Oliveira could take down Serral.I'm just talking about ESL's incompetence here.

You can downplay the problem with simple word "IT WAS A LETTER SEND LATE",like ESL has done what they needed to do and it's just an unfortunate accident.Have you realized how much this issue hurt the SC2 Pro gamer community?We all know SC2 is a dying game and the worst situation is there will be only three or four more major events for this game,especially for ESL series.We Chinese fans have heard about Oliveira's retirement plan since last year,and this accident ruined another chance for him to play on a world scene.Coffee also talked about same thing and he said it might be the best chance for him,but now it's lost.
You pretend to be neutral and objective ,but actually you are showing no empathy for the two pro players.

What we are asking for?A sincere apology from ESL ,not like the one Alex gave which actually shrinked their responsibility,blame the customs instead.And announcement of compensation for Oliveira,Coffee.We talk about EPT points and financial compensation as well.Unlike Oliveira, Coffee's not in good financial condition，but the VISA application expense's on his own,not ESL .That's also from Coffee himself,it's not rumor.

On June 16 2023 10:05 DIVINE_PEZZ wrote:


Only financial? This literally ruins the standings and points of the entire yearly circuit. How is this only financial? Spoken like someone who has no clue what the impact is.

Oh, of course, you're European. If the tournament was in Asia and EU players couldn't go surely you would have a completely different take.

On June 16 2023 23:55 Rob-Zero wrote:


You still dont know what is going on behind the scenes of ESL, so my point still stands.
I dont know If I am neutral here or not tbh, but I would have loved to see both of them, of course. To tell me i am not empathic towards the Chinese players is not fair in my eyes. But over the years of scbw and sc2 things like this happened to a lot of players and I don't see where this is a problem only for the Asian and/or Chinese community. Of course all of these incidents were bad for the sc scene. Furthermore sc2 pro player is not a normal job, it has risks in a lot of ways, and the players all know that. It is a pity, but still you make this way bigger than it is.
This "sincere apology" thing, don't know what to say about that. You are assuming things here and demanding compensation for that, tbh I don't think you are in a position to do that and you just assume the apology is not sincere, out of your standards. About the announcement: as I said, maybe just wait and see before blaming and shouting? Things like this take time. Wait a bit and see. And if it does not happen, you have still enough time to criticize.
You are just on a witch hunt here and that does not lead to anything. Also you are not contributing anything to the whole thing, aside from blame and hate. What for?
I think you don't empathize with ESL workers maybe? They are just humans. Did you never make a mistake where afterwards you thought: I f***ed up there, I was dumb?
I did. So please, calm down a bit and wait and see.



No, I wouldn't. Dont know where this European/Asian thing is coming from? I absolutely love the Asian community and most of its players. Maybe you should not infer others from yourself?
I know what the impact is, since it did not happen for the first time. Sc2 is still here, and it will still decline slowly. About the circuit and the points and the standing, maybe you guys just wait and see.
But I know, it is much more common these days to meet trouble halfway instead of just observing what will happen next.

On June 16 2023 10:05 DIVINE_PEZZ wrote:


Only financial? This literally ruins the standings and points of the entire yearly circuit. How is this only financial? Spoken like someone who has no clue what the impact is.

Oh, of course, you're European. If the tournament was in Asia and EU players couldn't go surely you would have a completely different take.

On June 17 2023 00:07 xelnaga_empire wrote:
How does ESL mess this up? The reigning Katowice champion is not in the ESL summer tournament, not because he didn't qualify or not because he chose not to go, but because ESL didn't time things right.

The solution to problems like this is to simply hold the qualification to this tournament earlier and allow more buffer time. Even allowing 1 or 2 more weeks buffer time could solve an issue like this. In addition, if Chinese players have a harder time getting a visa, ESL can have the Asia qualifier earlier. It's not ideal to have the Asia qualifier earlier, but it takes into consideration that players are coming from countries where they can't get a visa easily so they need more time.

On June 17 2023 09:27 NoobSkills wrote:


The reason they posted smells like bullshit. Do they really rely on the mail and a letter to start getting the ball rolling on visas for participating in their tournament? You can't email or fax it? There isn't a more streamlined process like a government agency website you can apply on?

Whatever it is it has nothing to do with a letter getting lost in the mail or delayed in the mail. Perhaps China is just a bitch to work with on visa things. Perhaps if ESL covers flights whatever charter flying out of China very expensive.

On June 17 2023 09:27 NoobSkills wrote:


The reason they posted smells like bullshit. Do they really rely on the mail and a letter to start getting the ball rolling on visas for participating in their tournament? You can't email or fax it? There isn't a more streamlined process like a government agency website you can apply on?

Whatever it is it has nothing to do with a letter getting lost in the mail or delayed in the mail. Perhaps China is just a bitch to work with on visa things. Perhaps if ESL covers flights whatever charter flying out of China very expensive.

On June 17 2023 22:45 Tommy131313 wrote:





That's it, exactly!
ESL screwed up? Of course they did, big time!
They acknowledged it and promised to do better next time and take into account the messy process of just-in-time visa application.
And that's ALL they can reasonably do.
Fixing the problem for the Summer Masters?
I don't see how it could be done without doing further harm to the integrity of the tournament.
This is f...ing sad, but it is as it is.
Let's get over it and don't blame it on racism or intentional malevolence.
Let's hope ESL finds some okayish way to compensate the players without passing on the black Peter to other players.

On June 17 2023 22:45 Tommy131313 wrote:





That's it, exactly!
ESL screwed up? Of course they did, big time!
They acknowledged it and promised to do better next time and take into account the messy process of just-in-time visa application.
And that's ALL they can reasonably do.
Fixing the problem for the Summer Masters?
I don't see how it could be done without doing further harm to the integrity of the tournament.
This is f...ing sad, but it is as it is.
Let's get over it and don't blame it on racism or intentional malevolence.
Let's hope ESL finds some okayish way to compensate the players without passing on the black Peter to other players.

On June 18 2023 01:19 Balnazza wrote:
MaxPax clearly has a condition that prevents him from attending offline events, maybe some incredibly high anxiety or whatever. So the situation is basically out of his hands - he should definetly be allowed to play online, all the time, every tournament.
Or is special treatment only for non-EU players?

On June 17 2023 15:23 Acrofales wrote:

You sound like you've never had to apply for a visa. Some few countries have an online application process, but most require you to show up, in person, at the consulate with all the required documents in physical format The documents have to be original and generally there is also an expiration period. Invitation letters, proof of no criminal record, proof of funds, proof of residence, etc. are all documents that expire.

How Sweden works specifically, I don't know, but requiring a physical letter of invitation is a very common requirement

On June 18 2023 07:14 NoobSkills wrote:


Out of everything you said, it seems like him missing the invitation would be the only disqualifying thing you mentioned as you have no clue if they did or didn't have everything else in order. Most of those items you mentioned seem like things that are readily at hand, and the criminal records request would be simple. Regardless the only known piece of information is a letter on paper, deliverd via donkey across the 7 seas via a glass bottle on land apparently needed extra inspection from customs lol. I'm not saying the process is the easiest in the world, but the invitation is clearly what held up the process, we have no clue if the players were ready with the other information and available to get to their offices in time. What we do know is that a customs delay on a letter that apparently wasn't held up at customs for almost any time at all was the required information missing.

On June 18 2023 10:24 J. Corsair wrote:
So who is being reprimanded or fired for this egregious mistake? I read an "apology" and a "I promise it won't ever happen again..."

That simply isn't enough, in my humble opinion.

On June 20 2023 06:28 TossHeroes wrote:
Just funny to read the comments from all the angry kiddos over a late letter send

Alex made an apology and gave an explanation and kids still believe there is a conspiracy lol. Ya let’s get mad over a video game