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On June 15 2023 07:56 Gina wrote:
Did a liquipedia search on "visa issues" and found mention of the Chinese players having those starting 2011 at least... it should be clear by now that this is a recurring problem, but it is only Oliveira's star quality that made waves this time.
It is really nothing new, China has always been a nightmare when it came down to visa. I remember WC3 teamleagues in 2006 that couldn't get chinese players anywhere because of visa issues. I think I vaguely remember a player not being able to get a visa even though he applied two months in advance back then
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There was just so much to anticipate. Didn't we all look forward to his offline rematches against Reynor/herO/Maru - what a list of names, just to think of it again - to his facing Serral on a big stage? Bringing some magic back? Gaaaah so disappointed.
Till the next big one then.
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On June 15 2023 06:52 Alex007 wrote:
Lastly, I would still like to clarify that we need to respect the tournament integrity and we absolutely cannot allow any players to participate in the Summer finals remotely as this decision will harm every other player attending the event and create an unfair competitive envinronment. Coffee and Oliveira not receiving the letter in time is the mistake we cannot fix and I'm as disappointed about this as you all are.
What is the solution to them being missing then? I can't imagine anything worse for "tournament integrity" than allowing 6 straight up byes. Two players being online is definitely far more fair than that.
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On June 15 2023 08:23 Balnazza wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2023 07:56 Gina wrote:
Did a liquipedia search on "visa issues" and found mention of the Chinese players having those starting 2011 at least... it should be clear by now that this is a recurring problem, but it is only Oliveira's star quality that made waves this time. It is really nothing new, China has always been a nightmare when it came down to visa. I remember WC3 teamleagues in 2006 that couldn't get chinese players anywhere because of visa issues. I think I vaguely remember a player not being able to get a visa even though he applied two months in advance back then
The problem isn't securing a visa. It was simply the letter being delayed by ESL. They need proof of the trip to authorize the visa.
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On June 15 2023 06:52 Alex007 wrote:
Hello,
As a Product Manager responsible for ESL SC2 Pro Tour, I would like to jump in here, clarify what happened and what are we going to do for this to never happen again.
Firstly, before I jump into actual stuff, I would like to make a deep apology to the entire community - we ourselves are big SC2 fans and we are equally upset about Oliveira and Coffee not being able to attend the event. We know that this is extremely frustrating for the players, for the fans and for the whole community. For me it doesn't matter if it's 10% our fault vs 90% unfortunate set of events or the exact opposite - I treat this as my personal mistake as it is clear that we could have handled this situation better.
Moving to the actual stuff, this is what happened:
1. Oliveira had locked in his slot on May 21st, Coffee has technically locked in his slot on May 25th but it was still obvious on May 21st that he's gonna get the slot.
2. Our invitational letters have been prepared within two days, then printed and signed within the next day and then sent on May 25th.
3. The person working for the parcel service assured us that they were going to use the fastest possible way of delivery. We were told that the package was set to arrive in China on May 31st at latest.
4. The package has indeed arrived in China on May 31st but was stuck at customs and therefore reached out its destination too late.
5. We contacted the embassy to try speed up the visa application process for Oliveira and Coffee, but this is not the area where any result can be guaranteed - and this didn't work out this time.
So, what am I going to do for this to never happen again. I feel the biggest mistake from our side was actually waiting for the outcome of the Regionals to start sending the invitational letters - for the Winter finals in Atlanta and onwards, our plan will be to gather players' applications as early as possible and start sending the invitational letters 2 months in advance before the event. Whatever happens with customs, parcel services, embassies and any other stakeholders, we should be in a much safer spot than with the approach we've taken for the Summer season.
Lastly, I would still like to clarify that we need to respect the tournament integrity and we absolutely cannot allow any players to participate in the Summer finals remotely as this decision will harm every other player attending the event and create an unfair competitive envinronment. Coffee and Oliveira not receiving the letter in time is the mistake we cannot fix and I'm as disappointed about this as you all are.
With all this said, the whole team is working really hard to bring the best possible show to life and I hope you will still enjoy our Summer finals starting on Friday. Thank you!
Thank you, Alex, for your timely response and apology. As a Chinese fan, I am really happy that you will optimize the schedule and prevent such undesired things from happening. I really hope that ESL will learn from these incidents and organize events better in the future.
In the time being, I also really hope that Oliveira and Coffee get compensated for the EPT points that they should have received if they could make it to Sweden. Based on the fact that they have already entered the seeding stage, at least 120 EPT points should be assigned to each one of them. Depending on Oliveira's skills and momentum, I think he should be compensated a little bit more (e.g., 180 EPT points for players ranked 13th to 16th).
Since everything has happened, I hope there can be some form of compensation. Hope everything goes well in the future and we can all see the best players competing with the best of their skills.
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United States259 Posts
screwing over the world champion? im not a starcraft historian, but idk anything more embarrassing than this. the out-of-nowhere NASL bankruptcy comes to mind and KESPA's player restrictions as well. but this seems so much more stupid.
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On June 15 2023 08:41 JJH777 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2023 06:52 Alex007 wrote:
Lastly, I would still like to clarify that we need to respect the tournament integrity and we absolutely cannot allow any players to participate in the Summer finals remotely as this decision will harm every other player attending the event and create an unfair competitive envinronment. Coffee and Oliveira not receiving the letter in time is the mistake we cannot fix and I'm as disappointed about this as you all are.
What is the solution to them being missing then? I can't imagine anything worse for "tournament integrity" than allowing 6 straight up byes. Two players being online is definitely far more fair than that.
Kelazhur will replace Coffee and Has replace Oliveira.
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On June 15 2023 06:52 Alex007 wrote:
Hello,
As a Product Manager responsible for ESL SC2 Pro Tour, I would like to jump in here, clarify what happened and what are we going to do for this to never happen again.
Firstly, before I jump into actual stuff, I would like to make a deep apology to the entire community - we ourselves are big SC2 fans and we are equally upset about Oliveira and Coffee not being able to attend the event. We know that this is extremely frustrating for the players, for the fans and for the whole community. For me it doesn't matter if it's 10% our fault vs 90% unfortunate set of events or the exact opposite - I treat this as my personal mistake as it is clear that we could have handled this situation better.
Moving to the actual stuff, this is what happened:
1. Oliveira had locked in his slot on May 21st, Coffee has technically locked in his slot on May 25th but it was still obvious on May 21st that he's gonna get the slot.
2. Our invitational letters have been prepared within two days, then printed and signed within the next day and then sent on May 25th.
3. The person working for the parcel service assured us that they were going to use the fastest possible way of delivery. We were told that the package was set to arrive in China on May 31st at latest.
4. The package has indeed arrived in China on May 31st but was stuck at customs and therefore reached out its destination too late.
5. We contacted the embassy to try speed up the visa application process for Oliveira and Coffee, but this is not the area where any result can be guaranteed - and this didn't work out this time.
So, what am I going to do for this to never happen again. I feel the biggest mistake from our side was actually waiting for the outcome of the Regionals to start sending the invitational letters - for the Winter finals in Atlanta and onwards, our plan will be to gather players' applications as early as possible and start sending the invitational letters 2 months in advance before the event. Whatever happens with customs, parcel services, embassies and any other stakeholders, we should be in a much safer spot than with the approach we've taken for the Summer season.
Lastly, I would still like to clarify that we need to respect the tournament integrity and we absolutely cannot allow any players to participate in the Summer finals remotely as this decision will harm every other player attending the event and create an unfair competitive envinronment. Coffee and Oliveira not receiving the letter in time is the mistake we cannot fix and I'm as disappointed about this as you all are.
With all this said, the whole team is working really hard to bring the best possible show to life and I hope you will still enjoy our Summer finals starting on Friday. Thank you!
Can you represent the esl Event group？？？
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Why ESL sabotages world champion's visa? So lazy and irresponsible, made so many mistakes and delays when players need visa urgently. Never gonna watch ESL's sh1tty tournaments ever again
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On June 15 2023 09:38 tigera6 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2023 08:41 JJH777 wrote:On June 15 2023 06:52 Alex007 wrote:
Lastly, I would still like to clarify that we need to respect the tournament integrity and we absolutely cannot allow any players to participate in the Summer finals remotely as this decision will harm every other player attending the event and create an unfair competitive envinronment. Coffee and Oliveira not receiving the letter in time is the mistake we cannot fix and I'm as disappointed about this as you all are.
What is the solution to them being missing then? I can't imagine anything worse for "tournament integrity" than allowing 6 straight up byes. Two players being online is definitely far more fair than that. Kelazhur will replace Coffee and Has replace Oliveira.
Those seem like very random selections... Better than EU getting favored yet again but still not great. Would have much preferred Oli/coffee playing online or the slots being filled via the open bracket.
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On June 15 2023 07:56 Gina wrote:
Did a liquipedia search on "visa issues" and found mention of the Chinese players having those starting 2011 at least... it should be clear by now that this is a recurring problem, but it is only Oliveira's star quality that made waves this time.
Oliveira is the reigning world champion. That's why it's making waves. You'd have thought that making sure the reigning world champion was in attendance for the first offline international event of the 2023-2024 season would be a priority but apparently it wasn't.
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On June 15 2023 06:52 Alex007 wrote:
Hello,
As a Product Manager responsible for ESL SC2 Pro Tour, I would like to jump in here, clarify what happened and what are we going to do for this to never happen again.
Firstly, before I jump into actual stuff, I would like to make a deep apology to the entire community - we ourselves are big SC2 fans and we are equally upset about Oliveira and Coffee not being able to attend the event. We know that this is extremely frustrating for the players, for the fans and for the whole community. For me it doesn't matter if it's 10% our fault vs 90% unfortunate set of events or the exact opposite - I treat this as my personal mistake as it is clear that we could have handled this situation better.
Moving to the actual stuff, this is what happened:
1. Oliveira had locked in his slot on May 21st, Coffee has technically locked in his slot on May 25th but it was still obvious on May 21st that he's gonna get the slot.
2. Our invitational letters have been prepared within two days, then printed and signed within the next day and then sent on May 25th.
3. The person working for the parcel service assured us that they were going to use the fastest possible way of delivery. We were told that the package was set to arrive in China on May 31st at latest.
4. The package has indeed arrived in China on May 31st but was stuck at customs and therefore reached out its destination too late.
5. We contacted the embassy to try speed up the visa application process for Oliveira and Coffee, but this is not the area where any result can be guaranteed - and this didn't work out this time.
So, what am I going to do for this to never happen again. I feel the biggest mistake from our side was actually waiting for the outcome of the Regionals to start sending the invitational letters - for the Winter finals in Atlanta and onwards, our plan will be to gather players' applications as early as possible and start sending the invitational letters 2 months in advance before the event. Whatever happens with customs, parcel services, embassies and any other stakeholders, we should be in a much safer spot than with the approach we've taken for the Summer season.
Lastly, I would still like to clarify that we need to respect the tournament integrity and we absolutely cannot allow any players to participate in the Summer finals remotely as this decision will harm every other player attending the event and create an unfair competitive envinronment. Coffee and Oliveira not receiving the letter in time is the mistake we cannot fix and I'm as disappointed about this as you all are.
With all this said, the whole team is working really hard to bring the best possible show to life and I hope you will still enjoy our Summer finals starting on Friday. Thank you!
Thank you for the explanation! Good to hear that changes will be implemented.
Looking forward to the tournament.
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On June 15 2023 10:16 JJH777 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2023 09:38 tigera6 wrote:On June 15 2023 08:41 JJH777 wrote:On June 15 2023 06:52 Alex007 wrote:
Lastly, I would still like to clarify that we need to respect the tournament integrity and we absolutely cannot allow any players to participate in the Summer finals remotely as this decision will harm every other player attending the event and create an unfair competitive envinronment. Coffee and Oliveira not receiving the letter in time is the mistake we cannot fix and I'm as disappointed about this as you all are.
What is the solution to them being missing then? I can't imagine anything worse for "tournament integrity" than allowing 6 straight up byes. Two players being online is definitely far more fair than that. Kelazhur will replace Coffee and Has replace Oliveira. Those seem like very random selections... Better than EU getting favored yet again but still not great. Would have much preferred Oli/coffee playing online or the slots being filled via the open bracket.
Has and Nice are the next best player in the Asia region, other than the Chinese players, but I guess Has had the better group stage result than Nice.
And Kelazhur has the next best combined EPT pts, beating Special by 4pts. So yeah, there is a logic behind the replacment pick.
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On June 15 2023 10:07 chilongqua322 wrote:
Why ESL sabotages world champion's visa? So lazy and irresponsible, made so many mistakes and delays when players need visa urgently. Never gonna watch ESL's sh1tty tournaments ever again
Two posts in ca. a year, both about TIME/Oliveira having visa troubles and a TO being "bad"...good quota?
@tigera6
where do you get the information that Kelazhur and Has will replace them? Just based on points or was it announced somewhere?
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On June 15 2023 11:28 Balnazza wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2023 10:07 chilongqua322 wrote:
Why ESL sabotages world champion's visa? So lazy and irresponsible, made so many mistakes and delays when players need visa urgently. Never gonna watch ESL's sh1tty tournaments ever again Two posts in ca. a year, both about TIME/Oliveira having visa troubles and a TO being "bad"...good quota? @tigera6 where do you get the information that Kelazhur and Has will replace them? Just based on points or was it announced somewhere?
From Alex's twitter: https://twitter.com/Alex007UA/status/1669101902443814912?s=20
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oliveira and coffee has a huge fan base in China, you can imagine what the situation is in a country of 1.5 billion people only one world champion, but also because of this, some Chinese webcasting giants bought ESL broadcast rights, because of this incident caused the loss of these companies, I think after this ESL will receive a lot of pages of lawyers letter, visa issues are just the beginning, after that is the painful moment
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That ESL chooses Has as Oli's replacement is hilariously ridiculous. Has placed 5-8th in the Asia regional and though very likely ESL reached out to the third and fourth finishers, Cyan and Firefly who are both Chinese players, they for sure could not attend due to visa issue. All these add up and turn the Asia regional into a showmatch that guarantees the qualification for Taiwan/Hong Kong player. And imagine Clem who has been practicing TvT for days getting cheesed out on the first match to the lower bracket.
Kelazhur replacing Coffee has its logic, however without the points very likely Coffee could not qualify for the Winter finals.
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I posted this in the tournament thread, but I should probably ask here as well...
Has and Nice both finished in the same position in the Asia regional (5th - 8th) and both have the same number of points in the combined standings (170). Shouldn't there have been a playoff between the two? Did Nice decline for some reason?
Anyone know?
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On June 15 2023 16:57 MJG wrote:I posted this in the tournament thread, but I should probably ask here as well... Show nested quote +Has and Nice both finished in the same position in the Asia regional (5th - 8th) and both have the same number of points in the combined standings (170). Shouldn't there have been a playoff between the two? Did Nice decline for some reason? Anyone know?
I have definitely seen the mention of a tiebreaker match and that Has 3:0 Nice, but can't find the source now, sorry.
On June 15 2023 10:17 Vindicare605 wrote:
Oliveira is the reigning world champion. That's why it's making waves.
Yes exactly, that's what I mean, we wouldn't have been up in arms for Coffee alone would we.
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Bot edit.
User was banned for this post.
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EPT
