EPTHaving said that, I dont have an issue if they remove the nerf on Battery Overcharge and Disruptor shot. I think those 2 make it way too hard for Protoss to defend against the Terran 2 base push or post-Colossi tech. And I personally believe the reason for those 2 nerfs was because of PvZ, not PvT.
Maru wins Code S Season 1, achieves "6SL"
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tigera6
3220 Posts
Having said that, I dont have an issue if they remove the nerf on Battery Overcharge and Disruptor shot. I think those 2 make it way too hard for Protoss to defend against the Terran 2 base push or post-Colossi tech. And I personally believe the reason for those 2 nerfs was because of PvZ, not PvT. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15878 Posts
Right now this should be more obvious than ever with a simple balance patch changing the situation from "Zerg players are just better than everyone" to "Terran players are just better than everyone" | ||
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
On May 25 2023 01:27 angry_maia wrote: Is it really a case of Protoss suffering balance wise? A plausible alternative is just the current set of active players. Can you define "current" as a percentage of the full lifespan of Legacy of the Void? | ||
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Agh
United States899 Posts
On May 25 2023 03:50 Charoisaur wrote: Classic is a multiple Starleague champ and he had now plenty of time to get back in shape. I can't hear this x players just happen to be better talk anymore, the perception of how good a player is is based on results and balance influences which players get good results. Right now this should be more obvious than ever with a simple balance patch changing the situation from "Zerg players are just better than everyone" to "Terran players are just better than everyone" it's definitely patch related, but doesn't completely omit cases where people are playing better (and in other cases barely playing at all [>insert group D here<]). After watching the Maru vs Cure group series you already knew that was going to be the finals, even without seeing the rest of the matches or even the other group playing a single game. Game state also affects players motivation to prepare and mentality overall. I don't think one tournament calls for a kneejerk response but if it becomes a trend something needs to be done to prevent the cascade effect. | ||
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Turbovolver
Australia2384 Posts
On May 25 2023 03:50 Charoisaur wrote: Right now this should be more obvious than ever with a simple balance patch changing the situation from "Zerg players are just better than everyone" to "Terran players are just better than everyone" Remember when people thought Terran was screwed by this patch? I am still laughing about that. | ||
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AcrossFromTime
29 Posts
I don't think it's right to suggest that the game should be balanced around a hypothetical better player for a particular race. I think it has to be balanced around the current actually existing players. Whoever the best current player is for each race, they should each have an equal chance of winning a tournament, balance-wise. I think that if a game is going to be fun to watch, it has to be that way. But that's just my opinion. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16642 Posts
On May 23 2023 04:17 Slydie wrote: I just finished watching the semis and the final, great games! I find it fantastic that a mirror matchup can have that much variety! Some more mech and maybe an attempt at pure bio could have been fun, but the sky terran games made up for it! i agree and to add to your comment. imo, Blizzard did a great job with all 3 mirrors. David Kim and Dustin Browder and genius level game designers. | ||
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nojok
France15845 Posts
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CicadaSC
United States1455 Posts
On May 23 2023 05:06 CaRn1FeX wrote: I'm inrterested in seeing if this continues to be that heavily Terran favored or if the other races will catch up eventually. Currently the patch feels very terran favoured...  Stormgate, please hurrysc2 is EXTREMELY terran favored, and protoss as well but not at the top level. zerg is weakest in gm and all levels below. only serral is exception to the rule atm. not even reynor winning or dark | ||
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Athenau
569 Posts
On May 28 2023 15:41 CicadaSC wrote: sc2 is EXTREMELY terran favored, and protoss as well but not at the top level. zerg is weakest in gm and all levels below. only serral is exception to the rule atm. not even reynor winning or dark Zerg wins 40-50% of premiere tournaments every year for three years straight--" Zerg players are just better". Zerg doesn't win everything for three months. THE SKY IS FALLING. | ||
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JJH777
United States4378 Posts
On May 28 2023 22:56 Athenau wrote: Zerg wins 40-50% of premiere tournaments every year for three years straight--" Zerg players are just better". Zerg doesn't win everything for three months. THE SKY IS FALLING. And Zerg has won like 3mil more in prize money than the other two races over the games life. Zerg is still in first place even if you subtract Serral and Rogues winnings. Obviously not relevant to current balance but his post reads to me like he thinks Terrans been the best for a long time. | ||
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Turbovolver
Australia2384 Posts
On May 28 2023 22:56 Athenau wrote: Zerg wins 40-50% of premiere tournaments every year for three years straight--" Zerg players are just better". Zerg doesn't win everything for three months. THE SKY IS FALLING. This would mean a lot more coming from someone other than the person who thought the sky was falling because snipe gained some counterplay. | ||
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Athenau
569 Posts
On May 29 2023 09:52 Turbovolver wrote: This would mean a lot more coming from someone other than the person who thought the sky was falling because snipe gained some counterplay. I thought it was a bad change if implemented without appropriate compensation elsewhere. But sure, that's totally the same as complaining that the game is extremely terran favored after three months, while blithely ignoring the last three years. | ||
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Harris1st
Germany6805 Posts
Katowice was a TvT final mainly because the Korean GOAT plays Terran and the Non-Korean GOAT had trouble with ZvZ GSL S1 was a TvT final and semifinal because 80% of the best Koreans play Terran these days. Top Korean Protoss are a bit rusty still from military and the one active top top Zerg had a bad day For me this is still coincidental. Now if this happens again, specially on an international stage, I would be inclined to call it pattern | ||
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Ciaus_Dronu
South Africa1848 Posts
On May 30 2023 19:59 Harris1st wrote: I don't see the Terran heavy tournament finals as a balance problem (yet) Katowice was a TvT final mainly because the Korean GOAT plays Terran and the Non-Korean GOAT had trouble with ZvZ GSL S1 was a TvT final and semifinal because 80% of the best Koreans play Terran these days. Top Korean Protoss are a bit rusty still from military and the one active top top Zerg had a bad day For me this is still coincidental. Now if this happens again, specially on an international stage, I would be inclined to call it pattern While I agree with the overall point that we can't be too stressed yet, I think the bolded claim is hilarious. While I'd maybe agree there are somewhat more good terrans, only Maru and Cure are actually toptier. It's not like Bunny, Ryung and Gumiho are substantially better than Solar, Classic, Ragnarok, DRG and Creator. | ||
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Harris1st
Germany6805 Posts
Personally, I'd put a non-hurting Byun above Solar/ DRG/ Rag and Bunny on the same tier as those. The Protoss players (Classic, herO, Stats) and Dark I excluded with my next sentence. Creator, Ryung and Gumi I don't know where to put | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15878 Posts
tier 1: Maru, Dark, herO tier 2: Cure, ByuN, Solar tier 3: Classic, Ragnarok, DRG, Bunny, Creator tier 4: the rest So 50% of the top 6 players play terran. I agree that variance played a part in the recent results we've seen, but from all we've seen I'm very worried about the TvP matchup | ||
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tigera6
3220 Posts
On May 30 2023 21:35 Charoisaur wrote: I'd say it's: tier 1: Maru, Dark, herO tier 2: Cure, ByuN, Solar tier 3: Classic, Ragnarok, DRG, Bunny, Creator tier 4: the rest So 50% of the top 6 players play terran. I agree that variance played a part in the recent results we've seen, but from all we've seen I'm very worried about the TvP matchup In term of form from the recent GSL and last couple weeks, I would not put Dark and herO in tier 1, but herO is getting back there. Cure could be tier 1 because he is so solid overall. Classic should be tier 2 with how good he looks, tier 3 seems to be fair enough after adding Gumiho. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15878 Posts
On May 30 2023 22:43 tigera6 wrote: In term of form from the recent GSL and last couple weeks, I would not put Dark and herO in tier 1, but herO is getting back there. Cure could be tier 1 because he is so solid overall. Classic should be tier 2 with how good he looks, tier 3 seems to be fair enough after adding Gumiho. Yeah but form in recent weeks/months is influenced by the balance patch so I tried to do a more general ranking based on the last 1-2 years. | ||
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relatively_simple
3 Posts
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