EPT
New Ladder Maps Announced - Used at IEM Katowice
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Waxangel
United States33712 Posts
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Nakajin
Canada8991 Posts
I would be livid if I had to throw out months of preps just week before the biggest event of the year. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On January 04 2023 11:45 Nakajin wrote: On one hand I'm kind of happy that Kato will be played on a new patch and on new maps and that stuff will be fresh, on the other hand it really feel like a cheap shot to the players. I would be livid if I had to throw out months of preps just week before the biggest event of the year. They still have 4 weeks to prepare for these maps, that's easily enough time to do so, especially because all these "new maps" are more or less just the same archetypes of maps we've seen since forever with new skins on top. The balance patch is a bigger issue, and that one will likely hit before katowice too i imagine. | ||
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buzz_bender
446 Posts
On January 04 2023 11:45 Nakajin wrote: On one hand I'm kind of happy that Kato will be played on a new patch and on new maps and that stuff will be fresh, on the other hand it really feel like a cheap shot to the players. I would be livid if I had to throw out months of preps just week before the biggest event of the year. I'm almost certain that they would have told/announced that to the players before the public announcement of these new ladder maps. It was like that for DH Valencia where the players were already practising on these new maps way before they announced it. | ||
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luxon
United States117 Posts
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tigera6
3516 Posts
On January 04 2023 10:09 tigera6 wrote: So they removed all the short distance map with potential for 2 base all-in and give back the standard macro 7-8 base map? And this happen at the same time with Ghost nerf? Why am I not suprised about this? And I am just not a fan of having huge change right into a big tournament without having extensive public play testing before that. I know players are aware of this and have been practicing it, but they probably wont reveal any possible bug or glitch with the map until the main tournament time, aka Parting vs Solar. | ||
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Beelzebub1
1005 Posts
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Athenau
590 Posts
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geokilla
Canada8255 Posts
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Mizenhauer
United States1970 Posts
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buzz_bender
446 Posts
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digmouse
China6333 Posts
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syndbg
43 Posts
On January 04 2023 17:44 digmouse wrote: Big balance patch hitting right before Katowice is absurd, either do it now and give players time to adapt or stick to tradition and only release them after major tournaments. Why do you think the players don't know, test or practice on the PTR changes way before it's released? Besides its 4 weeks in advance. | ||
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MJG
United Kingdom1451 Posts
On January 04 2023 18:05 syndbg wrote: Why do you think the players don't know, test or practice on the PTR changes way before it's released? Besides its 4 weeks in advance. They're still updating the PTR. | ||
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youaremysin
119 Posts
On January 04 2023 18:05 syndbg wrote: Why do you think the players don't know, test or practice on the PTR changes way before it's released? Besides its 4 weeks in advance. They make multiples changes, sometimes on the same day: like libs going to 2 supply reduced damage, only to be removed and just change the cost. Raven changes are also completely differents from a week ago. It's okay to have no Idea about what you're doing and trying things out but in that case give it time. | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16127 Posts
Seriously what the fuck is ESL thinking?! Do they think they need to do this shit to get people to watch? It's fucking Katowice OF COURSE we're going to watch but now we're going to watch knowing that everything that happens in this tournament is a gigantic asterisk because it's being done with a huge set of massive changes right before it. This is stupid. I no longer consider Katowice the "world championships" anymore. They keep doing shit like this that completely compromises the competitive integrity of the tournament. They don't deserve to be called "World Championships" if they are going to do shit like this consistently. On January 04 2023 13:24 Mizenhauer wrote: How easily we forget that blizz once did a balance change two days before a Code S Semifinal. This is a gift compared to that. And so the lesson to be learned is that we're going to do that AGAIN? Oh and that balance patch? Massive favor to Zerg, just like this one is. Typical. Typical. | ||
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syndbg
43 Posts
On January 04 2023 20:04 Vindicare605 wrote: This is stupid. I no longer consider Katowice the "world championships" anymore. I am sure they're gonna remove the world championships from the name, just cause you throw a hissy fit | ||
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KillerSmile
Germany96 Posts
It is unfortunate ofc that you can not separate the individual influence, how much win rates changed for one race over another because of maps vs because of the balance patch. However having both change makes for exciting times, tho I'm gonna be a bit sad to see my own map leave the pool. Also great to see that we get the ESL versions before the ladder versions, so they get to have proper playtesting again and any oversights on the maps hopefully won't make it to ladder. Some people in here are complaining that changing so many things at once so close to a major event to some degree invalidates the tournament outcomes as a measure of the player's skill, but adapting to new circumstances and coming up with new strategies should be part of the skill of playing a god damn strategy game. | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16127 Posts
On January 04 2023 20:43 KillerSmile wrote: This is probably easier on the pro players than have the map pool and the game balance change on two separate occasions. It is unfortunate ofc that you can not separate the individual influence, how much win rates changed for one race over another because of maps vs because of the balance patch. However having both change makes for exciting times, tho I'm gonna be a bit sad to see my own map leave the pool. Also great to see that we get the ESL versions before the ladder versions, so they get to have proper playtesting again and any oversights on the maps hopefully won't make it to ladder. Some people in here are complaining that changing so many things at once so close to a major event to some degree invalidates the tournament outcomes as a measure of the player's skill, but adapting to new circumstances and coming up with new strategies should be part of the skill of playing a god damn strategy game. Here's why this doesn't play. The players are qualifying and being seeded for this tournament based on how they performed LAST year, under last year's maps and last year's patch. It makes ZERO sense for any Championship Tournament to completely change the rules of the game during the "finals" of the season. It's completely ridiculous. It's bad enough that ESL has been doing this with maps, including last year's HILARIOUSLY terrible Pride of Aldaris being included in the finals map pool, but now they're going to be opening the finals of the year with a brand new map pool and a brand new set of balance changes that will have no time to be properly settle in the meta before the tournament has to start. Not only is it unfair for the players to have to deal with, but it's an absolute disgrace to anyone that understands ANY sport to call this scenario a world championship. This would be as if the league had introduced a brand new set of regulations for how to referee a game right before the playoffs start, or forced players to play with a brand new ball, or on a brand new surface for the court. It's absurd. I would have hoped that ESL would have learned their lessons about this shit already from 2019 where Nydus Worms took over the tournament out of nowhere, or from last year when the map pool was obviously extremely Zerg favored. But it doesn't seem like they WANT to learn these lessons, as long as people keep giving them excuses to do whatever they feel like. Not this time. These are huge changes that even the players themselves do not want included in the tournament. If they are going to push this shit through anyway then they deserve to be criticized for it. Blizzard NEVER did shit like this before with Blizzcon, even if it would have been good for it like again in 2019 because as the "World Championship" event there's an onus on being the fairest representation of the season you are awarding a title for as possible. IEM Katowice has consistently decided they do not believe in this idea, that they can make radical changes to their tournament that negatively impacts the competitive integrity of it, and still call it a World Championship. I don't agree. They only got the title of "World championship" because we as a community agreed to let them have it after Blizzcon dissolved. They only get to keep using it as long as the community agrees to keep acknowledging them as the best tournament of the year. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16103 Posts
On January 04 2023 20:43 KillerSmile wrote: This is probably easier on the pro players than have the map pool and the game balance change on two separate occasions. It is unfortunate ofc that you can not separate the individual influence, how much win rates changed for one race over another because of maps vs because of the balance patch. However having both change makes for exciting times, tho I'm gonna be a bit sad to see my own map leave the pool. Also great to see that we get the ESL versions before the ladder versions, so they get to have proper playtesting again and any oversights on the maps hopefully won't make it to ladder. Some people in here are complaining that changing so many things at once so close to a major event to some degree invalidates the tournament outcomes as a measure of the player's skill, but adapting to new circumstances and coming up with new strategies should be part of the skill of playing a god damn strategy game. shouldn't it be the other way? Maps being tested on ladder first before they get played on in tournaments? Imbalanced maps on ladder don't matter, but in tournaments they affect the livelihood of pro players | ||
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