On June 28 2022 19:17 dbRic1203 wrote: They allready Covered all their Cost with the Crowdfunding thing, where only 1/4 of the money went into the price Pool What is the Sponsor even paying for? It s not covering costs, it s not Posting the price pool Pls correct me, but to me (Who participated in the crowdfunder) this seems like they tried covering Ostsee multiple Times over to make the Maximum profit. The nft shit they tried fits that picture sadly I m never going to give Ogaming money again
Just want to point out that with the current level of crowdfunding, they actually had a budgeted loss of 20K€ on the event. The minimal threshold to make the event possible was one where O'Gaming stood to lose money, as they always have on live events.
(source : they said so during Katowice streams to push people to crowdfund - probably some VODs can be found on their Youtube, in French of course)
Note that I am not defending the way things were (dis)organized regarding Team China, just pointing out that the first sentence in the post I quote was wrong, and since the rest is ranting about them stealing money it is largely unfounded.
Total transparency about where the crowdfunded money came into, or bust.
The organization incurring losses doesn't make the feeling of money getting stolen completely unfounded. Crowdfunded money shouldn't go towards funding OGaming's daily operations, the Ulule wasn't that explicit about it, donations wouldn't have been the same if it was.That the sponsors who arrived LATER have a bigger say than the initial crowdfunding backers on whether the DQ decision was fair or not makes for a worse look.
The prize money should have been bigger no matter what, esp given sponsors arrived later
This is on their Ulule right now (at least the French version, not sure about the English one)
I wonder how much cash they had on communication in the Nation Wars the Chile thing happened
What Chile thing? The only thing I found on liquipedia is that they couldn’t find time to play their matches due to timezone differences. I vaguely remember that but I don’t think people were particularly mad about it
They got DQ'd because they couldn't play due to timezone differences while other matches were shown from replay. O'Gaming never came up with a proper statement. Communcation budget was probably under 7%.
I was the tournament director so let me jump in the thread.There was an official statement. Chile was only available to play outside broadcast hours which forced them to be DQ'ed. Blizzard also asked to have all matches being played live. It is obviously never fun to DQ a team especially when you work so hard to accommodate 24 teams to play at decent hours.
I don't remember ever seeing an official statement outside of a Reddit post by Funka. But what's done is done, waiting for their official statement on this year's NationWars debacle now.
On June 29 2022 05:18 Nakajin wrote: Oh well, they'll pay up the 1 k$ so it's at least that.
Actually one of those team would make it to the Final, and make at least 2k from it. Best case for them would be 1st and 3rd which are more than 5k in total.
I just don't understand why they couldn't go for a hybrid setup with China/Peace playing online and team USA and Poland playing at their venue. I mean doesn't the past two years of almost all online premier tournaments show that players don't need to be physically in the same place as the casters and audience for the games to be exciting (see WTL)?
On June 29 2022 15:15 argonautdice wrote: I just don't understand why they couldn't go for a hybrid setup with China/Peace playing online and team USA and Poland playing at their venue. I mean doesn't the past two years of almost all online premier tournaments show that players don't need to be physically in the same place as the casters and audience for the games to be exciting (see WTL)?
I also don't know why this isn't the obvious solution. Of course, it's also an unattractive compromise. But at least it wouldn't be as disastrous for the tournament's external image and its competitive integrity compared to other solutions.
I would have thought that it would also be in the interest of the sponsors. (Unless the sponsors or the viewer count hugely benefits from a French participation in the final ).
On June 29 2022 15:15 argonautdice wrote: I just don't understand why they couldn't go for a hybrid setup with China/Peace playing online and team USA and Poland playing at their venue. I mean doesn't the past two years of almost all online premier tournaments show that players don't need to be physically in the same place as the casters and audience for the games to be exciting (see WTL)?
I also don't know why this isn't the obvious solution. Of course, it's also an unattractive compromise. But at least it wouldn't be as disastrous for the tournament's external image and its competitive integrity compared to other solutions.
I would have thought that it would also be in the interest of the sponsors. (Unless the sponsors or the viewer count hugely benefits from a French participation in the final ).
I saw a statement that Ogaming has already sold two tickets for RO4, and without two offline games, the spectators who bought tickets would have a hard time dealing with them. There is also a saying that sponsors require RO4 to conduct offline competitions. I don't understand why Ogaming has to sell tickets and find sponsors after crowdfunding. Maybe they should give an explanation.
On June 29 2022 15:15 argonautdice wrote: I just don't understand why they couldn't go for a hybrid setup with China/Peace playing online and team USA and Poland playing at their venue. I mean doesn't the past two years of almost all online premier tournaments show that players don't need to be physically in the same place as the casters and audience for the games to be exciting (see WTL)?
I also don't know why this isn't the obvious solution. Of course, it's also an unattractive compromise. But at least it wouldn't be as disastrous for the tournament's external image and its competitive integrity compared to other solutions.
I would have thought that it would also be in the interest of the sponsors. (Unless the sponsors or the viewer count hugely benefits from a French participation in the final ).
I saw a statement that Ogaming has already sold two tickets for RO4, and without two offline games, the spectators who bought tickets would have a hard time dealing with them. There is also a saying that sponsors require RO4 to conduct offline competitions. I don't understand why Ogaming has to sell tickets and find sponsors after crowdfunding. Maybe they should give an explanation.
Afaik this is because the crowdfunding doesn’t totally cover cost for the offline part so the tickets at lower price help cover the cost. Iirc they raised about 45k€ and needed 60k€, so the lower priced tickets for play days (30€ / playday in the studios, 100€ for the offline ro4) is supposed to help them reach the 60k€ necessary.
On June 29 2022 15:15 argonautdice wrote: I just don't understand why they couldn't go for a hybrid setup with China/Peace playing online and team USA and Poland playing at their venue. I mean doesn't the past two years of almost all online premier tournaments show that players don't need to be physically in the same place as the casters and audience for the games to be exciting (see WTL)?
I also don't know why this isn't the obvious solution. Of course, it's also an unattractive compromise. But at least it wouldn't be as disastrous for the tournament's external image and its competitive integrity compared to other solutions.
I would have thought that it would also be in the interest of the sponsors. (Unless the sponsors or the viewer count hugely benefits from a French participation in the final ).
I saw a statement that Ogaming has already sold two tickets for RO4, and without two offline games, the spectators who bought tickets would have a hard time dealing with them. There is also a saying that sponsors require RO4 to conduct offline competitions. I don't understand why Ogaming has to sell tickets and find sponsors after crowdfunding. Maybe they should give an explanation.
Afaik this is because the crowdfunding doesn’t totally cover cost for the offline part so the tickets at lower price help cover the cost. Iirc they raised about 45k€ and needed 60k€, so the lower priced tickets for play days (30€ / playday in the studios, 100€ for the offline ro4) is supposed to help them reach the 60k€ necessary.
So, will ticket-buying audiences enjoy a semifinal with two losers?
On June 29 2022 15:15 argonautdice wrote: I just don't understand why they couldn't go for a hybrid setup with China/Peace playing online and team USA and Poland playing at their venue. I mean doesn't the past two years of almost all online premier tournaments show that players don't need to be physically in the same place as the casters and audience for the games to be exciting (see WTL)?
I also don't know why this isn't the obvious solution. Of course, it's also an unattractive compromise. But at least it wouldn't be as disastrous for the tournament's external image and its competitive integrity compared to other solutions.
I would have thought that it would also be in the interest of the sponsors. (Unless the sponsors or the viewer count hugely benefits from a French participation in the final ).
I saw a statement that Ogaming has already sold two tickets for RO4, and without two offline games, the spectators who bought tickets would have a hard time dealing with them. There is also a saying that sponsors require RO4 to conduct offline competitions. I don't understand why Ogaming has to sell tickets and find sponsors after crowdfunding. Maybe they should give an explanation.
Afaik this is because the crowdfunding doesn’t totally cover cost for the offline part so the tickets at lower price help cover the cost. Iirc they raised about 45k€ and needed 60k€, so the lower priced tickets for play days (30€ / playday in the studios, 100€ for the offline ro4) is supposed to help them reach the 60k€ necessary.
Playing the semifinals online will offset the cost, wouldn't it? From the page nationwarssc2 the crowdfunding raised 50k€, well exceeding the set goal of 40k€. Hope O'Gaming will come up with a thorough statement on how the money is spent on this tournament. After all we are all Starcraft fans and want to see the best competition, not some dilapidated events run by sloppy organizers.
Pretty poor handling by ogaming but I am pretty the organization have some financial issues. Both their sc2 and league of legends audience have plummeted for various reasons.
In my opinion, if if prevents even a single player from participating then it's wrong to hold events offline. There's no reason why anyone should be excluded because of where they're from. People are being punished for things that they have absolutely zero control over. The players have sacrificed so much to become professional SC2 players for our entertainment, they've come this far, and now we're just gonna pull the rug out from under them?
And it's not just this event. All the recent offline events have ended up excluding players because of where they're from. Everybody knows it's wrong, but somehow we tell ourselves, "That's just how it is." But that's not really true. People make these decisions. These things don't just happen. We tell ourselves, "That's just how it is." or "Life is unfair" when we know we're doing something wrong. We say it to make things easier so we don't have to do the right thing when it's hard.
Anyway, it's just a game. It's just money. It's just something that people have chosen to devote the best years of their life to for our entertainment. So I guess I shouldn't get so worked up about it. It's easy for me to sit hear and preach at people when nothing is on the line for me personally. I don't hold any ill will toward the organizers or anything. I know they're in a tough spot with their own livelihoods to consider. But it's still frustrating. Especially when it all seems so unnecessary since we could have just kept SC2 online, and we wouldn't have had these problems.
On June 29 2022 20:47 AcrossFromTime wrote: In my opinion,if it prevents even a single player from participating then it's wrong to hold events offline.
I disagree because for most offline events you could find a player who'd say "well, offline doesn't work for me" - and then what, never have an offline event ever again? Especially now that we have a top player in MaxPax who simply refuses to play offline because of his own reasons.
What is wrong is to have people participate in the event, go as far as SF and then tell them they're DQed even though they were promised they'd be able to play online. In this case you screw both players and spectators because competition's integrity is compromised.
And even teams that will "benefit" because of this decision are probably not happy.
I dont think so much flame directed at ogaming is warranted here. At this point in sc2 pro-scene lifespan, we should just be glad there are still people passionate enough for the game to do any kind of events. Do you really think ogaming, or any organizer of sc2 tournament is this day and age is getting rich of it? Dont be ridiculous, all these people have jobs, they either lose money on tournaments or so-so cover the costs. They organize these as fans, to keep the scene alive and competitive and for other fans.
Yes, they could have handled this situation better. And yes, they could have planned better. And yes its not fair to teams Peace and China. But the reality of the situation is that they as organizers have to make a decision best for them, players, sponsors and fans. From all the wrong decisions they picked 1. Lets not hate them for it...
On June 29 2022 20:47 AcrossFromTime wrote: In my opinion, if if prevents even a single player from participating then it's wrong to hold events offline. There's no reason why anyone should be excluded because of where they're from. People are being punished for things that they have absolutely zero control over. The players have sacrificed so much to become professional SC2 players for our entertainment, they've come this far, and now we're just gonna pull the rug out from under them?
And it's not just this event. All the recent offline events have ended up excluding players because of where they're from. Everybody knows it's wrong, but somehow we tell ourselves, "That's just how it is." But that's not really true. People make these decisions. These things don't just happen. We tell ourselves, "That's just how it is." or "Life is unfair" when we know we're doing something wrong. We say it to make things easier so we don't have to do the right thing when it's hard.
Anyway, it's just a game. It's just money. It's just something that people have chosen to devote the best years of their life to for our entertainment. So I guess I shouldn't get so worked up about it. It's easy for me to sit hear and preach at people when nothing is on the line for me personally. I don't hold any ill will toward the organizers or anything. I know they're in a tough spot with their own livelihoods to consider. But it's still frustrating. Especially when it all seems so unnecessary since we could have just kept SC2 online, and we wouldn't have had these problems.
The GLOBAL Starcraft 2 League is held offline in Korea. If you aren t living there tough luck. It s allways ben that way and will likely remain until the end of time (or competitiv SC2 at least) There are allways Players that can t compete at offline events, thats normal and has been normal in the past
On June 29 2022 22:14 MarianoSC2 wrote: I dont think so much flame directed at ogaming is warranted here. At this point in sc2 pro-scene lifespan, we should just be glad there are still people passionate enough for the game to do any kind of events. Do you really think ogaming, or any organizer of sc2 tournament is this day and age is getting rich of it? Dont be ridiculous, all these people have jobs, they either lose money on tournaments or so-so cover the costs. They organize these as fans, to keep the scene alive and competitive and for other fans.
Yes, they could have handled this situation better. And yes, they could have planned better. And yes its not fair to teams Peace and China. But the reality of the situation is that they as organizers have to make a decision best for them, players, sponsors and fans. From all the wrong decisions they picked 1. Lets not hate them for it...
Indeed. Messily handled with poor communication, sure that’s a fair criticism.
Ultimately they’re caught between fulfilling their Kickstarter obligations, and a change in the global economic climate and there’s no good choice either way.
On June 29 2022 22:14 MarianoSC2 wrote: I dont think so much flame directed at ogaming is warranted here. At this point in sc2 pro-scene lifespan, we should just be glad there are still people passionate enough for the game to do any kind of events. Do you really think ogaming, or any organizer of sc2 tournament is this day and age is getting rich of it? Dont be ridiculous, all these people have jobs, they either lose money on tournaments or so-so cover the costs. They organize these as fans, to keep the scene alive and competitive and for other fans.
Yes, they could have handled this situation better. And yes, they could have planned better. And yes its not fair to teams Peace and China. But the reality of the situation is that they as organizers have to make a decision best for them, players, sponsors and fans. From all the wrong decisions they picked 1. Lets not hate them for it...
Indeed. Messily handled with poor communication, sure that’s a fair criticism.
Ultimately they’re caught between fulfilling their Kickstarter obligations, and a change in the global economic climate and there’s no good choice either way.
Except many won't care a single bit about the outside circumstances. Regardless of whether OGaming's concerns were valid or not, their lack of PR ability (and it's not the first time imo) and you get that level of backlash.
EDIT : And they will face some challenge to not see the said backlash snowballing further.
The point is, O'gaming told Peace and China that if they qualified in Ro8 they could play online but they denied what they said. This, I would say, is dishonorable action and they should be ashamed. If they still run matches in the future, who will continue to believe what they say is valid? I have some thoughts to believe that they revised what they said because of the sponsors or the French team being eliminated.
EPT
![[image loading]](https://d2homsd77vx6d2.cloudfront.net/cache/0/a/0ad75254305ea900ce2111658506abf3.png)
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