EPTNation Wars 7 - China/Team Peace controversy
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Update [July 29, 2022] O'Gaming have decided to allow China and Team Peace to compete online | ||
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ciwomuli
China5 Posts
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Trigger3
1 Post
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Liu
6 Posts
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Liu
6 Posts
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Yancychen
China17 Posts
On June 28 2022 12:21 Liu wrote: The French are about to lose their place in StarCraft and WTL in China. that‘s not truth | ||
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LFSB
6 Posts
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LFSB
6 Posts
It's quite absurd to use others' kindness as a method to spread vicious rumours. . | ||
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Liu
6 Posts
On June 28 2022 12:57 LFSB wrote: From what I've seen on the Chinese SC forum, a large number of Chinese audiences are very disappointed about Ogaming's decision since TIME has been told the Chinese team would be allowed to play online. It is said that Team Peace has received the same promise. However, Xiaose (the co-owner of Scboy) has been comforting the emotions of these audiences. Under such circumstances, he offered to host two play matches to make it up for TIME and Cyan, if only he can get the approval of his co-owners. I don't think there would be any personal problem between Scboy and Ogaming. It's quite absurd to use others' kindness as a method to spread vicious rumours. . You may have misunderstood what I mean, I mean that the French will be discriminated against by Chinese StarCraft fans for this kind of behavior. The French will also be booed by the audience at the WTL match. | ||
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guguji
8 Posts
 Although lost to China and Russia, but victory is victory | ||
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tigera6
3219 Posts
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guguji
8 Posts
On June 28 2022 14:41 tigera6 wrote: Not related, so does that mean no Chinese player will be in DH Valencia as well? Or Cyan still play because the airfare are being paid by ESL? yes it's too expensive | ||
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guguji
8 Posts
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LFSB
6 Posts
On June 28 2022 14:41 tigera6 wrote: Not related, so does that mean no Chinese player will be in DH Valencia as well? Or Cyan still play because the airfare are being paid by ESL? Actually Cyan has confirmed he would not play in DH Valencia, the airfare would be too expensive for ESL to cover(like $4000 single). He has also mentioned that ESL only covered part of his airfare to Katowice.TIME is not playing in Valencia as well... | ||
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SSIII
China60 Posts
User was temp banned for this post. | ||
TheOneAboveU
Germany3367 Posts
Unfortunate for China and Team Peace. The coincidence of France standing to gain from the situation doesn't make it look any better, of course. Ogaming should have communicated from the get-go to teams that offline participation is required. If a nation's players couldn't guarantee that, they shouldn't have been allowed to attend in the first place and maybe be placed into a showmatch or something to still give them a chance to play. | ||
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ejozl
Denmark3340 Posts
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Elentos
55458 Posts
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M3t4PhYzX
Poland4163 Posts
nice way to ruin a very interesting tournament.. such a shame. | ||
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gedi_x
1 Post
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tcb
49 Posts
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Durnuu
13319 Posts
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p1cass0
46 Posts
On June 28 2022 15:37 TheOneAboveU wrote: Seems like Ogaming moved themselves into a lose-lose-position here. They seemingly promised teams they could play online, but then realized too late they took crowdfunding money explicitly to hold an offline event. So it's either break a promise to the teams or to the people who gave you money. Unfortunate for China and Team Peace. The coincidence of France standing to gain from the situation doesn't make it look any better, of course. Ogaming should have communicated from the get-go to teams that offline participation is required. If a nation's players couldn't guarantee that, they shouldn't have been allowed to attend in the first place and maybe be placed into a showmatch or something to still give them a chance to play. If the opion of the sponsors is what ogaming is worring about, I don't see cancelling the semi-final at all will make them happier than an online match. The dicision just doesn't make any sense. | ||
Poopi
France12761 Posts
On June 28 2022 18:40 p1cass0 wrote: If the opion of the sponsors is what ogaming is worring about, I don't see cancelling the semi-final at all will make them happier than an online match. The dicision just doesn't make any sense. I think (I have no idea about what they will actually do) the plan is to fly Mexico and France offline since they lost to China and Team Peace (if that team also can't attend), or have all losing quarterfinals team battle it out so the winners go to the offline part to replace China / Peace. | ||
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dbRic1203
Germany2655 Posts
What is the Sponsor even paying for? It s not covering costs, it s not Posting the price pool Pls correct me, but to me (Who participated in the crowdfunder) this seems like they tried covering Ostsee multiple Times over to make the Maximum profit. The nft shit they tried fits that picture sadly I m never going to give Ogaming money again | ||
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robotc_sc2
10 Posts
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Legendk
France230 Posts
On June 28 2022 19:17 dbRic1203 wrote: They allready Covered all their Cost with the Crowdfunding thing, where only 1/4 of the money went into the price Pool What is the Sponsor even paying for? It s not covering costs, it s not Posting the price pool Pls correct me, but to me (Who participated in the crowdfunder) this seems like they tried covering Ostsee multiple Times over to make the Maximum profit. The nft shit they tried fits that picture sadly I m never going to give Ogaming money again Why are you giving your money to them in the 1st place ?? ... | ||
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robotc_sc2
10 Posts
On June 28 2022 19:17 dbRic1203 wrote: They allready Covered all their Cost with the Crowdfunding thing, where only 1/4 of the money went into the price Pool What is the Sponsor even paying for? It s not covering costs, it s not Posting the price pool Pls correct me, but to me (Who participated in the crowdfunder) this seems like they tried covering Ostsee multiple Times over to make the Maximum profit. The nft shit they tried fits that picture sadly I m never going to give Ogaming money again Please don't, and they definitely need to explain in details how they actually spent the crowdfunded money! If the money is not fully used for the tournament, then what is it used for? Purely personal gains? | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15878 Posts
So either don't let them participate at all or allow them to play online. Letting them play and then disqualifying them makes zero sense. Just terrible organizing | ||
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MJG
United Kingdom813 Posts
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fgg19911
3 Posts
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tl_dpg
Canada1 Post
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Harris1st
Germany6793 Posts
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BuqunSC2
China25 Posts
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yf_kevin_zhu
1 Post
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ChevalierHu
9 Posts
I don't know if this is against the competitive spirit of sports,but I don't think it's a good choice for the sponsor to renege. I am very disappointed that the organizer has done so,no matter from what point of view | ||
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WGT-Baal
France3341 Posts
For some reason French esport organisation (in SC2 at least, Karmine Corp seems to do things fine) has always been a mess, with good ideas wrecked by incompetence, a lot of unnecessary echelons and roadblock in the organisation and barely any contingency planning. Notable exception to this was DH Tours which was honestly a blast. This is really sad because there are also a lot of really passionate people and I really hope they learn from this and get better. Mistakes happen, and some of the past NW event ended up great, so it s not all garbage either (EDIT: sorry I didn't intend to sound so negative with that first paragraph). Also feel sorry for all the fans, the casters, the players who were looking forward to it. | ||
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robotc_sc2
10 Posts
On June 28 2022 23:21 WGT-Baal wrote: It may or may not be intentionally made to help the French team though the optics are not good. But having been to French LANs, ref-ed the WCG qualis and seen OGaming in the early days, as well as ESWC orga, I m not surprised it ended up that way. For some reason French esport organisation (in SC2 at least, Karmine Corp seems to do things fine) has always been a mess, with good ideas wrecked by incompetence, a lot of unnecessary echelons and roadblock in the organisation and barely any contingency planning. Notable exception to this was DH Tours which was honestly a blast. This is really sad because there are also a lot of really passionate people and I really hope they learn from this and get better. Mistakes happen, and some of the past NW event ended up great, so it s not all garbage either (EDIT: sorry I didn't intend to sound so negative with that first paragraph). Also feel sorry for all the fans, the casters, the players who were looking forward to it. Thank you for the post and your point of view. Feeling sorry does sound comforting but it ends up solving little. In fact, the Chinese team worked very hard to get to the semifinals only to be DQ'd, and it solely adds insult to the injuries on top of their invitation to the tourney (Yes they got invited to be DQ'd!). If such a DQ decision needs to be made, it should be made before the quarterfinals, not after. It is so unprofessional and full of malice to come to such an end result. | ||
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lechatnoir
381 Posts
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tigera6
3219 Posts
On June 29 2022 00:12 lechatnoir wrote: Can't blame the organizers for the costs of flights but man this looks dumb. Most people are getting mad because they didnt tell the teams on time, instead telling them to keep on playing, but only change it after the whole online part is over AND France got eliminated. So the optics is just terrible on this. The air-ticket price from and to China has been extremely pricey and selective for a long time because of their Covid policy, everyone who dealing with traveling should know that. | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24192 Posts
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M3t4PhYzX
Poland4163 Posts
On June 28 2022 18:45 Poopi wrote: I think (I have no idea about what they will actually do) the plan is to fly Mexico and France offline since they lost to China and Team Peace (if that team also can't attend), or have all losing quarterfinals team battle it out so the winners go to the offline part to replace China / Peace. if anything.. it HAS to be the 2nd option.. the only sensible one. Four quarterfinals losers play MSL style group for the 2 missing spots. Still sucks but makes the most sense from the availible (?)* options. *besides letting them play online, ofc.. | ||
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tigera6
3219 Posts
On June 29 2022 01:17 M3t4PhYzX wrote: if anything.. it HAS to be the 2nd option.. the onl sensible one. Four quarterfinals losers play MSL style group for the 2 missing spots. I heard Netherlands team already withdraw from such scenario because of competition fairness or something similar. | ||
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Apom
France655 Posts
On June 28 2022 19:17 dbRic1203 wrote: They allready Covered all their Cost with the Crowdfunding thing, where only 1/4 of the money went into the price Pool What is the Sponsor even paying for? It s not covering costs, it s not Posting the price pool Pls correct me, but to me (Who participated in the crowdfunder) this seems like they tried covering Ostsee multiple Times over to make the Maximum profit. The nft shit they tried fits that picture sadly I m never going to give Ogaming money again Just want to point out that with the current level of crowdfunding, they actually had a budgeted loss of 20K€ on the event. The minimal threshold to make the event possible was one where O'Gaming stood to lose money, as they always have on live events. (source : they said so during Katowice streams to push people to crowdfund - probably some VODs can be found on their Youtube, in French of course) Note that I am not defending the way things were (dis)organized regarding Team China, just pointing out that the first sentence in the post I quote was wrong, and since the rest is ranting about them stealing money it is largely unfounded. | ||
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Philippe
349 Posts
On June 29 2022 01:25 Apom wrote: Just want to point out that with the current level of crowdfunding, they actually had a budgeted loss of 20K€ on the event. The minimal threshold to make the event possible was one where O'Gaming stood to lose money, as they always have on live events. (source : they said so during Katowice streams to push people to crowdfund - probably some VODs can be found on their Youtube, in French of course) Note that I am not defending the way things were (dis)organized regarding Team China, just pointing out that the first sentence in the post I quote was wrong, and since the rest is ranting about them stealing money it is largely unfounded. Total transparency about where the crowdfunded money came into, or bust. The organization incurring losses doesn't make the feeling of money getting stolen completely unfounded. Crowdfunded money shouldn't go towards funding OGaming's daily operations, the Ulule wasn't that explicit about it, donations wouldn't have been the same if it was.That the sponsors who arrived LATER have a bigger say than the initial crowdfunding backers on whether the DQ decision was fair or not makes for a worse look. The prize money should have been bigger no matter what, esp given sponsors arrived later | ||
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robotc_sc2
10 Posts
On June 29 2022 01:25 Apom wrote: Just want to point out that with the current level of crowdfunding, they actually had a budgeted loss of 20K€ on the event. The minimal threshold to make the event possible was one where O'Gaming stood to lose money, as they always have on live events. (source : they said so during Katowice streams to push people to crowdfund - probably some VODs can be found on their Youtube, in French of course) Note that I am not defending the way things were (dis)organized regarding Team China, just pointing out that the first sentence in the post I quote was wrong, and since the rest is ranting about them stealing money it is largely unfounded. That being said, allowing online plays is likely the most economical solution. It saves venue rental money and honors player participation at the same time. Why cannot this solution be chosen instead? Unless there is something else fishy that prevents the organizers from doing so? | ||
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tcb
49 Posts
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/ICIfi6g.png) ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/YD0TzrU.jpg) According to Harstem's post,the organizer allowed play top4 online but.. | ||
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Apom
France655 Posts
On June 29 2022 01:36 Philippe wrote: Total transparency about where the crowdfunded money came into, or bust. The organization incurring losses doesn't make the feeling of money getting stolen completely unfounded. Crowdfunded money shouldn't go towards funding OGaming's daily operations, the Ulule wasn't that explicit about it, donations wouldn't have been the same if it was.That the sponsors who arrived LATER have a bigger say than the initial crowdfunding backers on whether the DQ decision was fair or not makes for a worse look. The prize money should have been bigger no matter what, esp given sponsors arrived later This is on their Ulule right now (at least the French version, not sure about the English one) ![[image loading]](https://d2homsd77vx6d2.cloudfront.net/cache/0/a/0ad75254305ea900ce2111658506abf3.png) | ||
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Durnuu
13319 Posts
On June 29 2022 02:18 Apom wrote: This is on their Ulule right now (at least the French version, not sure about the English one) I wonder how much cash they had on communication in the Nation Wars the Chile thing happened  | ||
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Elentos
55458 Posts
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tcb
49 Posts
On June 29 2022 02:18 Apom wrote: This is on their Ulule right now (at least the French version, not sure about the English one) I think they now need more funding to handle PR crisis | ||
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Poopi
France12761 Posts
On June 29 2022 02:29 Durnuu wrote: I wonder how much cash they had on communication in the Nation Wars the Chile thing happened What Chile thing? The only thing I found on liquipedia is that they couldn’t find time to play their matches due to timezone differences. I vaguely remember that but I don’t think people were particularly mad about it | ||
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tcb
49 Posts
On June 29 2022 02:37 Poopi wrote: What Chile thing? The only thing I found on liquipedia is that they couldn’t find time to play their matches due to timezone differences. I vaguely remember that but I don’t think people were particularly mad about it I google found this thread https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/868phh/halfbreed_statement_about_chile_being/ I did't hear about this since it was 4 years ago until Durnuu's post | ||
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Elentos
55458 Posts
On June 29 2022 02:37 Poopi wrote: What Chile thing? The only thing I found on liquipedia is that they couldn’t find time to play their matches due to timezone differences. I vaguely remember that but I don’t think people were particularly mad about it They got DQ'd because they couldn't play due to timezone differences while other matches were shown from replay. O'Gaming never came up with a proper statement. Communcation budget was probably under 7%. | ||
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hfsrj
Germany166 Posts
Props to Mark and the captain for their straight and classy decision & message. | ||
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M3t4PhYzX
Poland4163 Posts
On June 29 2022 01:22 tigera6 wrote: I heard Netherlands team already withdraw from such scenario because of competition fairness or something similar. oh? really.. well.. that's the tournament completely ruined if it wasn't before, then. what a clusterfuck  | ||
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M3t4PhYzX
Poland4163 Posts
On June 29 2022 01:59 tcb wrote: According to Harstem's post,the organizer allowed play top4 online but.. very chad decision by the dutch boys here. i'm impressed. | ||
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WGT-Baal
France3341 Posts
On June 29 2022 00:08 robotc_sc2 wrote: Thank you for the post and your point of view. Feeling sorry does sound comforting but it ends up solving little. In fact, the Chinese team worked very hard to get to the semifinals only to be DQ'd, and it solely adds insult to the injuries on top of their invitation to the tourney (Yes they got invited to be DQ'd!). If such a DQ decision needs to be made, it should be made before the quarterfinals, not after. It is so unprofessional and full of malice to come to such an end result. I agree with you, there is nothing else I can offer because I stopped being involved in French esport around 2015, I was just saying it wouldnt come as a surprise for anyone that worked in the French scene or simply even attended a couple events that they did not anticipate the flight cost or anything and ended up with a shitty, probably hastily made, decision because they have no contingency plans and had to make up something on the spot. Feels terrible for China and all the teams, I just hope that in the midst of this massive fuck-up, some structural reforms will be carried so it never happens again and the whole fields grows so it doesnt feel like an amateur-run event (and that s mean for amateur events, a lot of them are planned well, give their scale) | ||
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Mirelle
Russian Federation20 Posts
On June 28 2022 18:10 tcb wrote: Does team Peace face similar situation?Leaving Russia seems hard now. I'm Russian, and just recently returned from Western Europe (needed to visit my relatives in Germany). The trip preparation was quite complicated, but still possible: I got a touristic visa, and travelled with several transfers (Russia -> Belarus -> Lithuania -> Italy -> Germany), as the direct tickets were very expensive\unavailable. Overall trip cost was reasonable, within ~350 Euros, but of couse this was very slow and tyring. | ||
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Aeromi
France14456 Posts
On June 29 2022 02:43 Elentos wrote: They got DQ'd because they couldn't play due to timezone differences while other matches were shown from replay. O'Gaming never came up with a proper statement. Communcation budget was probably under 7%. I was the tournament director so let me jump in the thread.There was an official statement. Chile was only available to play outside broadcast hours which forced them to be DQ'ed. Blizzard also asked to have all matches being played live. It is obviously never fun to DQ a team especially when you work so hard to accommodate 24 teams to play at decent hours. | ||
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Durnuu
13319 Posts
On June 29 2022 04:25 Aeromi wrote: I was the tournament director so let me jump in the thread.There was an official statement. Chile was only available to play outside broadcast hours which forced them to be DQ'ed. Yeah, it only took like 2 weeks to have one, a FunKa AMA where he answered it before O'Gaming did, and me asking about it in every thread Nation Wars thread you posted in only for you to mightily ignore me | ||
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Elentos
55458 Posts
On June 29 2022 04:25 Aeromi wrote: I don't remember ever seeing an official statement outside of a Reddit post by Funka. But what's done is done, waiting for their official statement on this year's NationWars debacle now.I was the tournament director so let me jump in the thread.There was an official statement. Chile was only available to play outside broadcast hours which forced them to be DQ'ed. Blizzard also asked to have all matches being played live. It is obviously never fun to DQ a team especially when you work so hard to accommodate 24 teams to play at decent hours. | ||
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Pandain
United States12985 Posts
I agree with the above that Harstem/uThermal come out looking like chads. | ||
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Nakajin
Canada8988 Posts
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HuckFinne
1 Post
User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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tigera6
3219 Posts
On June 29 2022 05:18 Nakajin wrote: Oh well, they'll pay up the 1 k$ so it's at least that. Actually one of those team would make it to the Final, and make at least 2k from it. Best case for them would be 1st and 3rd which are more than 5k in total. | ||
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argonautdice
Canada2704 Posts
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Sophus
18 Posts
On June 29 2022 15:15 argonautdice wrote: I just don't understand why they couldn't go for a hybrid setup with China/Peace playing online and team USA and Poland playing at their venue. I mean doesn't the past two years of almost all online premier tournaments show that players don't need to be physically in the same place as the casters and audience for the games to be exciting (see WTL)? I also don't know why this isn't the obvious solution. Of course, it's also an unattractive compromise. But at least it wouldn't be as disastrous for the tournament's external image and its competitive integrity compared to other solutions. I would have thought that it would also be in the interest of the sponsors. (Unless the sponsors or the viewer count hugely benefits from a French participation in the final  ). | ||
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Liu
6 Posts
On June 29 2022 16:41 Sophus wrote: I also don't know why this isn't the obvious solution. Of course, it's also an unattractive compromise. But at least it wouldn't be as disastrous for the tournament's external image and its competitive integrity compared to other solutions. I would have thought that it would also be in the interest of the sponsors. (Unless the sponsors or the viewer count hugely benefits from a French participation in the final ).I saw a statement that Ogaming has already sold two tickets for RO4, and without two offline games, the spectators who bought tickets would have a hard time dealing with them. There is also a saying that sponsors require RO4 to conduct offline competitions. I don't understand why Ogaming has to sell tickets and find sponsors after crowdfunding. Maybe they should give an explanation. | ||
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Poopi
France12761 Posts
On June 29 2022 17:50 Liu wrote: I saw a statement that Ogaming has already sold two tickets for RO4, and without two offline games, the spectators who bought tickets would have a hard time dealing with them. There is also a saying that sponsors require RO4 to conduct offline competitions. I don't understand why Ogaming has to sell tickets and find sponsors after crowdfunding. Maybe they should give an explanation. Afaik this is because the crowdfunding doesn’t totally cover cost for the offline part so the tickets at lower price help cover the cost. Iirc they raised about 45k€ and needed 60k€, so the lower priced tickets for play days (30€ / playday in the studios, 100€ for the offline ro4) is supposed to help them reach the 60k€ necessary. | ||
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Liu
6 Posts
On June 29 2022 17:53 Poopi wrote: Afaik this is because the crowdfunding doesn’t totally cover cost for the offline part so the tickets at lower price help cover the cost. Iirc they raised about 45k€ and needed 60k€, so the lower priced tickets for play days (30€ / playday in the studios, 100€ for the offline ro4) is supposed to help them reach the 60k€ necessary. So, will ticket-buying audiences enjoy a semifinal with two losers? | ||
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robotc_sc2
10 Posts
On June 29 2022 17:53 Poopi wrote: Afaik this is because the crowdfunding doesn’t totally cover cost for the offline part so the tickets at lower price help cover the cost. Iirc they raised about 45k€ and needed 60k€, so the lower priced tickets for play days (30€ / playday in the studios, 100€ for the offline ro4) is supposed to help them reach the 60k€ necessary. Playing the semifinals online will offset the cost, wouldn't it? From the page nationwarssc2 the crowdfunding raised 50k€, well exceeding the set goal of 40k€. Hope O'Gaming will come up with a thorough statement on how the money is spent on this tournament. After all we are all Starcraft fans and want to see the best competition, not some dilapidated events run by sloppy organizers. | ||
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stilt
France2743 Posts
Both their sc2 and league of legends audience have plummeted for various reasons. | ||
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AcrossFromTime
29 Posts
And it's not just this event. All the recent offline events have ended up excluding players because of where they're from. Everybody knows it's wrong, but somehow we tell ourselves, "That's just how it is." But that's not really true. People make these decisions. These things don't just happen. We tell ourselves, "That's just how it is." or "Life is unfair" when we know we're doing something wrong. We say it to make things easier so we don't have to do the right thing when it's hard. Anyway, it's just a game. It's just money. It's just something that people have chosen to devote the best years of their life to for our entertainment. So I guess I shouldn't get so worked up about it. It's easy for me to sit hear and preach at people when nothing is on the line for me personally. I don't hold any ill will toward the organizers or anything. I know they're in a tough spot with their own livelihoods to consider. But it's still frustrating. Especially when it all seems so unnecessary since we could have just kept SC2 online, and we wouldn't have had these problems. | ||
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ZeroByte13
746 Posts
On June 29 2022 20:47 AcrossFromTime wrote: In my opinion,if it prevents even a single player from participating then it's wrong to hold events offline. I disagree because for most offline events you could find a player who'd say "well, offline doesn't work for me" - and then what, never have an offline event ever again? Especially now that we have a top player in MaxPax who simply refuses to play offline because of his own reasons. What is wrong is to have people participate in the event, go as far as SF and then tell them they're DQed even though they were promised they'd be able to play online. In this case you screw both players and spectators because competition's integrity is compromised. And even teams that will "benefit" because of this decision are probably not happy. | ||
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MarianoSC2
Slovakia1855 Posts
Yes, they could have handled this situation better. And yes, they could have planned better. And yes its not fair to teams Peace and China. But the reality of the situation is that they as organizers have to make a decision best for them, players, sponsors and fans. From all the wrong decisions they picked 1. Lets not hate them for it... | ||
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dbRic1203
Germany2655 Posts
On June 29 2022 20:47 AcrossFromTime wrote: In my opinion, if if prevents even a single player from participating then it's wrong to hold events offline. There's no reason why anyone should be excluded because of where they're from. People are being punished for things that they have absolutely zero control over. The players have sacrificed so much to become professional SC2 players for our entertainment, they've come this far, and now we're just gonna pull the rug out from under them? And it's not just this event. All the recent offline events have ended up excluding players because of where they're from. Everybody knows it's wrong, but somehow we tell ourselves, "That's just how it is." But that's not really true. People make these decisions. These things don't just happen. We tell ourselves, "That's just how it is." or "Life is unfair" when we know we're doing something wrong. We say it to make things easier so we don't have to do the right thing when it's hard. Anyway, it's just a game. It's just money. It's just something that people have chosen to devote the best years of their life to for our entertainment. So I guess I shouldn't get so worked up about it. It's easy for me to sit hear and preach at people when nothing is on the line for me personally. I don't hold any ill will toward the organizers or anything. I know they're in a tough spot with their own livelihoods to consider. But it's still frustrating. Especially when it all seems so unnecessary since we could have just kept SC2 online, and we wouldn't have had these problems. The GLOBAL Starcraft 2 League is held offline in Korea. If you aren t living there tough luck. It s allways ben that way and will likely remain until the end of time (or competitiv SC2 at least) There are allways Players that can t compete at offline events, thats normal and has been normal in the past | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland24262 Posts
On June 29 2022 22:14 MarianoSC2 wrote: I dont think so much flame directed at ogaming is warranted here. At this point in sc2 pro-scene lifespan, we should just be glad there are still people passionate enough for the game to do any kind of events. Do you really think ogaming, or any organizer of sc2 tournament is this day and age is getting rich of it? Dont be ridiculous, all these people have jobs, they either lose money on tournaments or so-so cover the costs. They organize these as fans, to keep the scene alive and competitive and for other fans. Yes, they could have handled this situation better. And yes, they could have planned better. And yes its not fair to teams Peace and China. But the reality of the situation is that they as organizers have to make a decision best for them, players, sponsors and fans. From all the wrong decisions they picked 1. Lets not hate them for it... Indeed. Messily handled with poor communication, sure that’s a fair criticism. Ultimately they’re caught between fulfilling their Kickstarter obligations, and a change in the global economic climate and there’s no good choice either way. | ||
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Philippe
349 Posts
On June 30 2022 00:01 WombaT wrote: Indeed. Messily handled with poor communication, sure that’s a fair criticism. Ultimately they’re caught between fulfilling their Kickstarter obligations, and a change in the global economic climate and there’s no good choice either way. Except many won't care a single bit about the outside circumstances. Regardless of whether OGaming's concerns were valid or not, their lack of PR ability (and it's not the first time imo) and you get that level of backlash. EDIT : And they will face some challenge to not see the said backlash snowballing further. | ||
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bela.mervado
Hungary373 Posts
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ZeroGo
2 Posts
EDIT: replace "reason" with "thoughts" | ||
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Nakajin
Canada8988 Posts
On June 30 2022 01:03 ZeroGo wrote: The point is, O'gaming told Peace and China that if they qualified in Ro8 they could play online but they denied what they said. This, I would say, is dishonorable action and they should be ashamed. If they still run matches in the future, who will continue to believe what they say is valid? I have reason to believe that they revised what they said because of the sponsors or the French team being eliminated. And what are those reasons exactly? Also, Ogaming changed their stance, Peace and China will be allowed to play from online. Case closed | ||
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Ciaus_Dronu
South Africa1848 Posts
Big respect to Harstem and uThermal though. EDIT: Glad to see they've changed their stance and will allow the online competition. | ||
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robotc_sc2
10 Posts
On June 30 2022 01:41 Nakajin wrote: And what are those reasons exactly? Also, Ogaming changed their stance, Peace and China will be allowed to play from online. Case closed Props to this change of stance and thank you all for voicing your opinions here. Your voices brought more fairness to this event. Hopefully the organizers will be more cautious next time. Also thanks again for hosting this SC2 event that unites us around the globe. | ||
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Philippe
349 Posts
On June 30 2022 02:01 robotc_sc2 wrote: Props to this change of stance and thank you all for voicing your opinions here. Your voices brought more fairness to this event. Hopefully the organizers will be more cautious next time. Also thanks again for hosting this SC2 event that unites us around the globe. Hoping that next time they will have a better crisis management, because ironically, they might have not needed to do that backpedaling if they had better PR skills. That was reeking of, " They don't learn their lessons ... " | ||
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robotc_sc2
10 Posts
On June 30 2022 02:05 Philippe wrote: Hoping that next time they will have a better crisis management, because ironically, they might have not needed to do that backpedaling if they had better PR skills. That was reeking of, " They don't learn their lessons ... " Yes I hope so as well. In the end, a good tourney is for the benefits of all of us. | ||
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Curufinwe Feanor
Brazil91 Posts
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Curufinwe Feanor
Brazil91 Posts
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Schelim
Austria11528 Posts
If they hadn't wanted anyone to play from online, they would have had to say so before the tournament started. to me it kinda feels like Ogaming's strategy was "well, China and Russia probably won't make it to round of 4 anyway so it won't matter". hope-based strategies are hardly ideal, as has become clear here. but like I said, glad they cleared it up and everybody can play as intended. | ||
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True_Spike
Poland3414 Posts
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Apom
France655 Posts
On June 30 2022 01:03 ZeroGo wrote: The point is, O'gaming told Peace and China that if they qualified in Ro8 they could play online but they denied what they said. This, I would say, is dishonorable action and they should be ashamed. If they still run matches in the future, who will continue to believe what they say is valid? I have reason to believe that they revised what they said because of the sponsors or the French team being eliminated. Do not worry, given that they were standing to lose 15K€ on the event before this shitshow (possibly more now, depending on airfare savings vs likely ticket + sponsor losses), it is unlikely that they ever run international events anymore. | ||
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Kafka777
361 Posts
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Liu
6 Posts
From the very beginning, the discussion among StarCraft players was not about China and the Peace Corps being disqualified from the competition, nor about the distribution of prize money, but about Ogaming's inconsistency in words and deeds. Without that announcement (perhaps not officially, but it exists) that online play is allowed, it wouldn't have been so controversial. In SCBOY's live stream, TIME and CYAN were clearly signaled by Ogaming staff to allow online RO4 matches after the game, but it was overturned within a day, which is unacceptable. | ||
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ZeroGo
2 Posts
On June 30 2022 01:41 Nakajin wrote: And what are those reasons exactly? Also, Ogaming changed their stance, Peace and China will be allowed to play from online. Case closed I wrote this post before knowing they allowed two teams to play it online, and I should use "thoughts" insteads of "reason", sorry. | ||
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Balnazza
Germany1097 Posts
The ruling should have been clear from the start: Either you can attend offline or you shouldn't participate. Now rolling back because of the backlash (and because they had trouble finding replacement)...oh well. Hope the rest goes smoothly from here. | ||
digmouse
China6327 Posts
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M3t4PhYzX
Poland4163 Posts
Let the best team win! | ||
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tigera6
3219 Posts
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nojok
France15845 Posts
In the end, we're a step closer to being dependant only on Saudi ESL and Microsoft money for offline events, (and Amazon for streams), only dubious corps at best (ok ESL not yet but for how long?). The growth of esports sure was fast but it quickly turned into muddy water. That's why I don't understand the extend of this backlash, sure they did mistakes (and eventually did the right choice) but give them some slack, it's a passion event and they end up with a shitty lan. I'm not a fan of the entire scene being in the grasp of all those big greedy corporations and would have liked to see a bit more forgiveness towards a small organiser. | ||
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tilhorizon
Germany191 Posts
a format so dumb that you have to wonder why which team is the main profiteer it was not top heavy enough for the one hit wonders like italy finnland and denmark and it was not deep enough that the 3/4/5 players of a country are in it like for korea ore germany ( with only 2 players in it you could not even called it a nation cup just a random 2vs2 cup) and on top of it the 2vs2 team was super important the 1 country that did profit most from that format was france from start to finish they pushed the france team with unfair dishonest advantages | ||
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lechatnoir
381 Posts
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lechatnoir
381 Posts
On June 30 2022 22:53 tilhorizon wrote: the 1 country that did profit most from that format was france France is out, so...? | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15878 Posts
On June 30 2022 11:22 Balnazza wrote: I will still say, the problem here was the miscommunication from oGaming. Personally, I don't like the idea of some players being online and others offline. I know Riot did it for MSI, but RNG was monitored the entire time, having a very special setup. Obviously that won't be the case here. The ruling should have been clear from the start: Either you can attend offline or you shouldn't participate. Now rolling back because of the backlash (and because they had trouble finding replacement)...oh well. Hope the rest goes smoothly from here. I agree but that's not what they did. They told them they could play online and then wanted to disqualify them once they reached the offline stage. In this case rolling back is the only sensible decision as their previous decision was just ridicolous | ||
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deepseer
25 Posts
France had a chance of revival if China and Russia were disqualified | ||
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stilt
France2743 Posts
On July 01 2022 12:57 deepseer wrote: France had a chance of revival if China and Russia were disqualified Which has nothing to do with the format | ||
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