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On March 19 2022 09:33 meadbert wrote:
Looks like Showtime dropped 236 points today and MaxPax dropped 309 points.
Highest Protoss mmr on EU is currently Skillous, but he has not laddered on the new patch yet.
The highest ranked Protoss on EU who has actually laddered the new patch looks to be GungFuBanda who only lost 90 mmr.
Second highest is Neeb who has actually gained 64 mmr.
Maybe 2022 will be the year of the Neeb comeback!
This is also incorrect.
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/qXuPRQj.png)
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One reason why Protoss dominates ladder is because it's the easiest and less stressful race to play. That does not, however, make them the strongest race at pro level.
A lot of my working friends pick Protoss (followed by Terran). Even a Zerg diamond friend admits not being able to play more than 3-4 games in a row as Zerg, and that he off-races when he wants to 'chill out' from stress. And even though his Zerg game is miles ahead of Protoss, he's still able to rank quite high on ladder with Protoss (although still lower than Zerg).
All this is anecdotal, of course. But I think there's a strong case to be made that ladder dominance does not necessarily translate to pro level balance. Recreational players play the game at different conditions and for different motivations than pros.
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nephest is wrong. you can cross check it against the ladder in game. There's no one at that MMR in GM or Contender.
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United States516 Posts
On March 11 2022 00:24 Nebuchad wrote:
My feelings are that this is what happens when you ask people who are involved in a community to do a patch.
The reason why a patch was probably a good idea was that protoss is clearly getting destroyed, so it should be the main thing that the patch attempts to fix. But the community doesn't like to watch protoss play or to play against protoss.
As a result instead of attempting to fix the glaring issue in the game right now, they've tried and fixed issues with their own watching or playing experience.
Unfortunately, buffing protoss always leads to bad players dominating good ones at every level. If you want to buff protoss, you need to fix its design first. That starts with removing warp gate.
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This patch is live @ ladder now, isnt it?
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On March 19 2022 17:11 tskarzyn wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2022 00:24 Nebuchad wrote:
My feelings are that this is what happens when you ask people who are involved in a community to do a patch.
The reason why a patch was probably a good idea was that protoss is clearly getting destroyed, so it should be the main thing that the patch attempts to fix. But the community doesn't like to watch protoss play or to play against protoss.
As a result instead of attempting to fix the glaring issue in the game right now, they've tried and fixed issues with their own watching or playing experience. Unfortunately, buffing protoss always leads to bad players dominating good ones at every level. If you want to buff protoss, you need to fix its design first. That starts with removing warp gate.
Yeah I feel similarly about the marine. What a shit unit, responsible for so much wrong in this game. But no one cares that I think that either.
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I'm enjoying it, just watched Hero take down Rogue in a pretty no Skytoss/Skyzerg looking series, I think their 3rd game was a skygame and Hero got demolished but all of Hero's groundtoss timings looked very powerful, looks like Blink playing is making kind of a resurgence in ZvP at the higher levels.
The balance council thing really needs to keep their finger on the pulse of ZvP though, keep it up guys, toning down the early game Queen walk was definitely a small step in the right direction.
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On March 19 2022 14:27 honorablemacroterran wrote:nephest is wrong. you can cross check it against the ladder in game. There's no one at that MMR in GM or Contender.
I just logged on to EU and checked and <SENTX>GunGFuBanDa has 6761 mmr in Masters 1 in division Alzadar Omicron
Are you excluding non GMs?
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On March 19 2022 12:58 RKC wrote:
A lot of my working friends pick Protoss (followed by Terran). Even a Zerg diamond friend admits not being able to play more than 3-4 games in a row as Zerg, and that he off-races when he wants to 'chill out' from stress. And even though his Zerg game is miles ahead of Protoss, he's still able to rank quite high on ladder with Protoss (although still lower than Zerg).
I find this statement funny because, especially as a P, it seems like Terran is just flipping through their rolodex of game-ending maneuvers, and if I don't catch all of them, I just lose.
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On March 19 2022 01:11 Zambrah wrote:
Im not sure direct comparisons between units is going to be particularly successful given facts like speed, zerglings morphing in pairs of two, upgrades like blink, stim etc.
Set Blink ability on a basic unit is questionable for a RTS game, that s all i said. I don t promote playstyle which lead to injury players because they clicked too much.
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On March 17 2022 22:14 Jerubaal wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2022 08:53 honorablemacroterran wrote:On March 17 2022 08:30 Jerubaal wrote:On March 16 2022 18:41 MockHamill wrote:
The changes are so good that I am almost contemplating playing some SC2 again. But then I remember that Carriers still exists. What I don't understand is, if these builds are ruining every game you play, why not counter those builds? "Just counter the carrier build bro." If you can't blindly counter the composition with the longest build up time, it's either you or you're lying about how often you encounter them.
I was mocking you because carriers are not a build.
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On March 20 2022 02:02 Jerubaal wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2022 12:58 RKC wrote:
A lot of my working friends pick Protoss (followed by Terran). Even a Zerg diamond friend admits not being able to play more than 3-4 games in a row as Zerg, and that he off-races when he wants to 'chill out' from stress. And even though his Zerg game is miles ahead of Protoss, he's still able to rank quite high on ladder with Protoss (although still lower than Zerg).
I find this statement funny because, especially as a P, it seems like Terran is just flipping through their rolodex of game-ending maneuvers, and if I don't catch all of them, I just lose.
How many game ending maneuvers do you think Terran has?
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On March 20 2022 03:09 honorablemacroterran wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2022 02:02 Jerubaal wrote:On March 19 2022 12:58 RKC wrote:
A lot of my working friends pick Protoss (followed by Terran). Even a Zerg diamond friend admits not being able to play more than 3-4 games in a row as Zerg, and that he off-races when he wants to 'chill out' from stress. And even though his Zerg game is miles ahead of Protoss, he's still able to rank quite high on ladder with Protoss (although still lower than Zerg).
I find this statement funny because, especially as a P, it seems like Terran is just flipping through their rolodex of game-ending maneuvers, and if I don't catch all of them, I just lose. How many game ending maneuvers do you think Terran has?
Well, if you count 1 ghost as 1 game ending maneuver, then at least 25
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On March 20 2022 03:07 honorablemacroterran wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2022 22:14 Jerubaal wrote:On March 17 2022 08:53 honorablemacroterran wrote:On March 17 2022 08:30 Jerubaal wrote:On March 16 2022 18:41 MockHamill wrote:
The changes are so good that I am almost contemplating playing some SC2 again. But then I remember that Carriers still exists. What I don't understand is, if these builds are ruining every game you play, why not counter those builds? "Just counter the carrier build bro." If you can't blindly counter the composition with the longest build up time, it's either you or you're lying about how often you encounter them. I was mocking you because carriers are not a build.
On March 20 2022 03:09 honorablemacroterran wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2022 02:02 Jerubaal wrote:On March 19 2022 12:58 RKC wrote:
A lot of my working friends pick Protoss (followed by Terran). Even a Zerg diamond friend admits not being able to play more than 3-4 games in a row as Zerg, and that he off-races when he wants to 'chill out' from stress. And even though his Zerg game is miles ahead of Protoss, he's still able to rank quite high on ladder with Protoss (although still lower than Zerg).
I find this statement funny because, especially as a P, it seems like Terran is just flipping through their rolodex of game-ending maneuvers, and if I don't catch all of them, I just lose. How many game ending maneuvers do you think Terran has?
I would be delighted to engage with any points you put forward, should you choose to present them.
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On March 19 2022 20:50 Nebuchad wrote:
Yeah I feel similarly about the marine. What a shit unit, responsible for so much wrong in this game. But no one cares that I think that either.
I'm not sure "no one", speaking quite absolutely there... I would agree that the marine is a bit too cost efficient. What's your issue/s with said unit?
DPS / cooldown between attacks / immediate targeting retarget shifting/ perhaps range / contributes to deathballs?
On another note, played a few Diamond 1-2 games ~4k mmr. PvZ seems to be in a better spot overall. Lurker spam can be worked around with army movement and decent robo unit control.
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Mexico2170 Posts
Protoss dominates ladder because of the same reason cheese is so prevalent. Ladder is a a best of 1 and cheese is super strong in a best of one.
Same with Protoss. Different all ins, different missdirection, different cheeses, they are great at that, and thus it makes sense they do well on ladder.
However on a Best of 3, 5,7 it's when they start to suffer, or on longer torunaments because secrets are out. Other players are not caught offguard cause they see them play or they are playing multiple games.
Protoss might be the "mechanically easiest" but it's also the race by far the most punishing of mistakes. It's also the least versatile (slow, needs to move on clumps, slow tech switches, needs bandaids like shield batteries overcharge just to not die, hell even having to wall vs zerg is the biggest band aid balance possible).
All of this, combined makes Protoss good on ladder, but not as great on tournaments, and that's simply a design issue that will not be easily fixed just with balance.
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United States516 Posts
On March 19 2022 20:50 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2022 17:11 tskarzyn wrote:On March 11 2022 00:24 Nebuchad wrote:
My feelings are that this is what happens when you ask people who are involved in a community to do a patch.
The reason why a patch was probably a good idea was that protoss is clearly getting destroyed, so it should be the main thing that the patch attempts to fix. But the community doesn't like to watch protoss play or to play against protoss.
As a result instead of attempting to fix the glaring issue in the game right now, they've tried and fixed issues with their own watching or playing experience. Unfortunately, buffing protoss always leads to bad players dominating good ones at every level. If you want to buff protoss, you need to fix its design first. That starts with removing warp gate. Yeah I feel similarly about the marine. What a shit unit, responsible for so much wrong in this game. But no one cares that I think that either.
Sorry things haven't panned out as you may have hoped they would. Try unplugging for a while. Focus on what's important. Stop making excuses for yourself. GL HF, you can do it!
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Northern Ireland26645 Posts
 ouble Post*
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Northern Ireland26645 Posts
On March 21 2022 08:10 tskarzyn wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2022 20:50 Nebuchad wrote:On March 19 2022 17:11 tskarzyn wrote:On March 11 2022 00:24 Nebuchad wrote:
My feelings are that this is what happens when you ask people who are involved in a community to do a patch.
The reason why a patch was probably a good idea was that protoss is clearly getting destroyed, so it should be the main thing that the patch attempts to fix. But the community doesn't like to watch protoss play or to play against protoss.
As a result instead of attempting to fix the glaring issue in the game right now, they've tried and fixed issues with their own watching or playing experience. Unfortunately, buffing protoss always leads to bad players dominating good ones at every level. If you want to buff protoss, you need to fix its design first. That starts with removing warp gate. Yeah I feel similarly about the marine. What a shit unit, responsible for so much wrong in this game. But no one cares that I think that either. Sorry things haven't panned out as you may have hoped they would. Try unplugging for a while. Focus on what's important. Stop making excuses for yourself. GL HF, you can do it!
He’s not wrong to be fair
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EPT
