EPTIndeed, Toss feels quite dead right now. It's a mix of players leaving for military and balance imo... The top Toss players are leaving one after another and since balance does not really favor toss by any means, there is nobody following those either
The future of Protoss. Is there any hope? - Page 44
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CaRn1FeX
Germany203 Posts
Indeed, Toss feels quite dead right now. It's a mix of players leaving for military and balance imo... The top Toss players are leaving one after another and since balance does not really favor toss by any means, there is nobody following those either | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On February 27 2022 05:37 CaRn1FeX wrote: Is there any hint that a balance patch is indeed considered? My understanding was that Blizzard does not patch SC2 any more  Nerf shield batteries, nerf Void Rays, merge lurker upgrades, nerf ravens and give infestors a spell which buffs range damage. It's just my guess. | ||
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honorablemacroterran
188 Posts
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highsis
259 Posts
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honorablemacroterran
188 Posts
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/VF9AGED.png) If you just are looking at the results of IEM and World Championships the thing that stands out the most is that Zerg have won all IEMs since TY in 2017 and all World Championships since Byun. I think before we go and buff Protoss it wouldn't hurt to nerf Zerg. I mean, if you just want to look at the very top level for balance then here it is. | ||
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pandorasheep
73 Posts
On February 27 2022 14:28 honorablemacroterran wrote: If you just are looking at the results of IEM and World Championships the thing that stands out the most is that Zerg have won all IEMs since TY in 2017 and all World Championships since Byun. I think before we go and buff Protoss it wouldn't hurt to nerf Zerg. I mean, if you just want to look at the very top level for balance then here it is. There's a reason why Serral is getting wins and easy groups | ||
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Melliflue
United Kingdom1389 Posts
On February 27 2022 14:28 honorablemacroterran wrote: If you just are looking at the results of IEM and World Championships the thing that stands out the most is that Zerg have won all IEMs since TY in 2017 and all World Championships since Byun. I think before we go and buff Protoss it wouldn't hurt to nerf Zerg. I mean, if you just want to look at the very top level for balance then here it is. Terrans eliminated protosses in the qualifiers, where TvP was 7-3 in series score. In the main event, not one protoss ended with a positive map score against terran. Neeb 2-5 Showtime 4-4 Trap 3-3 Zest 2-2 Astrea 1-4 Zoun 5-6 It is not just one tournament either. Cure is the reigning Code S champion because of his TvP. He beat Parting, Trap, and Zest in the playoffs. I agree that zerg is strongest now but terran is definitely second ahead of protoss. | ||
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darklycid
3458 Posts
On February 27 2022 17:02 Melliflue wrote: Terrans eliminated protosses in the qualifiers, where TvP was 7-3 in series score. In the main event, not one protoss ended with a positive map score against terran. Neeb 2-5 Showtime 4-4 Trap 3-3 Zest 2-2 Astrea 1-4 Zoun 5-6 It is not just one tournament either. Cure is the reigning Code S champion because of his TvP. He beat Parting, Trap, and Zest in the playoffs. I agree that zerg is strongest now but terran is definitely second ahead of protoss. PvT is quite swingy, it doesn't need balance changes like PvZ does but could use some nudges here and there to reduce volatility I feel. Meanwhile PvZ is just garbage and drains the fun out of watching. | ||
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Jerubaal
United States7684 Posts
Protoss was appraised and Blizz thought, "eh, they're fine, let's just patch a few small holes." So Protoss got Reaper and a Banshee/Observer hybrid. And no matter how well you think they perform those roles, they don't change how Protoss plays or much strategically beyond the openings. The Disruptor was a welcome addition, but it was just a replacement after the colossus got completely gutted. Oh, yeah. I guess the Tempest is a thing. | ||
Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51481 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25030 Posts
On February 27 2022 19:54 darklycid wrote: PvT is quite swingy, it doesn't need balance changes like PvZ does but could use some nudges here and there to reduce volatility I feel. Meanwhile PvZ is just garbage and drains the fun out of watching. Agreed. PvT is volatile, but in both directions and it can swing both ways very easily, especially within the space of one tournament. You can take the best PvT/TvP player and while you might favour them going in, it’s never a huge surprise if they lose to a player considerably worse than them. I like it to watch at times and there’s a lot of compositional and opening variety. It feels/numbers seem to indicate balance is alright, it doesn’t feel super stable either. A matchup should absolutely have upset potential, not feel that any top 10 player has a close to even shot at smacking the other race’s best matchup specialists depending on how build choices and how the early game snowballs. Upsets can still happen but they’re so much less likely, or the base level of the player has to be that much higher if you look at the best TvZ/ZvT/ZvP PvZ is neither in a good state enjoyment wise, nor particularly balance wise. | ||
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Jerubaal
United States7684 Posts
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Beelzebub1
1004 Posts
On February 27 2022 22:06 Pandemona wrote: Do you think there is a chance of pressure we can send to get these game a patch or do we have to wait until if Blizzard-Microsoft makes a StarCraft III ? There was rumors of a patch after IEM. I hope for the sake of Protoss going forward it's true because as match up diversity suffers, so will viewership, and I really don't want the game to decline more rapidly because the game couldn't get a few reasonable balance changes. I've said it a hundred times, theres no rationale behind HoTS having such a puny competitive scene whilst having such a puny ranked ladder population and still getting not just hero balance changes, but entire hero reworks, while SC2 just get's left behind despite having a more popular and profitable pro scene. | ||
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nojok
France15845 Posts
On February 27 2022 23:46 Beelzebub1 wrote: There was rumors of a patch after IEM. I hope for the sake of Protoss going forward it's true because as match up diversity suffers, so will viewership, and I really don't want the game to decline more rapidly because the game couldn't get a few reasonable balance changes. I've said it a hundred times, theres no rationale behind HoTS having such a puny competitive scene whilst having such a puny ranked ladder population and still getting not just hero balance changes, but entire hero reworks, while SC2 just get's left behind despite having a more popular and profitable pro scene. You can just make random changes to mobas, balance is not that important with bans, on the other hand it's hard to make a change improving an RTS in an already pretty good state. | ||
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Jerubaal
United States7684 Posts
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51481 Posts
On February 27 2022 23:46 Beelzebub1 wrote: There was rumors of a patch after IEM. I hope for the sake of Protoss going forward it's true because as match up diversity suffers, so will viewership, and I really don't want the game to decline more rapidly because the game couldn't get a few reasonable balance changes. I've said it a hundred times, theres no rationale behind HoTS having such a puny competitive scene whilst having such a puny ranked ladder population and still getting not just hero balance changes, but entire hero reworks, while SC2 just get's left behind despite having a more popular and profitable pro scene. Would be nice just helps keep the game going right, everyone always come back for a new patch and the pros we have now would love to try new things and use different units / build orders. | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On February 27 2022 23:56 nojok wrote: You can just make random changes to mobas, balance is not that important with bans, on the other hand it's hard to make a change improving an RTS in an already pretty good state. I dare to say that many people would disagree that SC 2 is in a good state. I mean - LOOK AT THIS THREAD. Edit> Also check how many balance suggestions are just on this page. And most of them are about Zerg and Protoss, funni. | ||
Poopi
France12789 Posts
PvZ is probably not too horrible balance wise, but zergs hate it, protoss hate it, viewers hate it. It has to change. TvZ is still relatively loved but you feel that once lurkers are out it's just an uphill battle, and that queens basically counter everything which is also relatively bad design wise. If the rumors are true, this could be very good. Starcraft still has a bright future, be it BW or Starcraft 2 | ||
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honorablemacroterran
188 Posts
On February 27 2022 17:02 Melliflue wrote: Terrans eliminated protosses in the qualifiers, where TvP was 7-3 in series score. In the main event, not one protoss ended with a positive map score against terran. Neeb 2-5 Showtime 4-4 Trap 3-3 Zest 2-2 Astrea 1-4 Zoun 5-6 It is not just one tournament either. Cure is the reigning Code S champion because of his TvP. He beat Parting, Trap, and Zest in the playoffs. I agree that zerg is strongest now but terran is definitely second ahead of protoss. If you want to make this case you have to look at who eliminated Protoss from every points event and why the seeding was the way it was to begin with. | ||
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CaRn1FeX
Germany203 Posts
On February 28 2022 00:52 Poopi wrote: TvZ is still relatively loved but you feel that once lurkers are out it's just an uphill battle, and that queens basically counter everything which is also relatively bad design wise. Feels like you could easily replace with P and the statement is still valid to some degree. Lurkers make it very hard to play for both, Toss and Terran. Toss needs to switch to Skytoss to have a chance. Queens feel too strong and multi-purpose as well in PvZ | ||
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