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WombaT
Northern Ireland26223 Posts
Not professional tier obviously but when do you think someone crosses the MMR threshold to be legitimately good at the game? Of course there’ll be outliers doing optimised cannon rushes vs a blind opponent but assuming relatively standard play, when can one say they’re at least semi-decent at this game? We have quite a masochistic community I feel in assessing competency, especially giving how mechanically demanding it is, curious what you all think | ||
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Durnuu
13322 Posts
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Jan1997
Norway671 Posts
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
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Russano
United States434 Posts
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SpaceBoar
52 Posts
I think currently most of SC2 population is either Plat or low-mid Dia, so probably "good" would objectively be starting around high Dia, and everyone below Plat could be called bad or worse. Not sure how the actual numbers look though, just guessing. | ||
[Phantom]
Mexico2170 Posts
Frankly, iif you are above 50% of the population, you are good. Above average. Now something more stric would be diamond. Being in the top 25% of the players is good. | ||
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dUTtrOACh
Canada2339 Posts
My definition of good is pretty chill, and I'd say it starts around plat / diamond level (earlier for some, later for others, too). For the most part, the player becomes incapable of losing to another player who is lacking too much in any single category of definable skill. They will likely never be demoted, even after long breaks, because whatever holes in their play have been compounded by the break, they are capable of being aware of and working on them. Pro-gamers are so far beyond good... They are, in many cases, beyond exceptional. Phenomenal? | ||
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ilax30
720 Posts
On October 04 2020 05:51 [Phantom] wrote: Forums, reddit, and TL have this tendency to say everyone sucks. Frankly, iif you are above 50% of the population, you are good. Above average. Now something more stric would be diamond. Being in the top 25% of the players is good. Guess it depends on what OP compares it with, always tough to say. although I wont lie ive got troublem with calling people in diamond good considering you just dont really know what you are doing when you are in that league. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16021 Posts
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ytherik
199 Posts
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[Phantom]
Mexico2170 Posts
Some people also simply have a lower mechanicall skill cap. For you it might be masters, or diamond, or gold, who knows. I think there are two levels of good, and of course it's relative. The first level is of the casual player, the general population, aka, all of us. in this case, good I would say is GM, Masters, Diamond are good. (and maybe like I said above, anyone that's on the top of 50% of the playerbase could technically be considered good). And then there's Pros, which you need to put them aside in a completely different category. There's no point in comparing them to the average player. They play all day, they get paid to play, the have no other major responsabilities, they can focus, they have practice partners etc. There's no comparison. Even then, there are different skill levels amongst pros too. In that sense, some pros could be bad relatively to another. Obviously, they would all be objectively good when compared to the playerbase, but they are so far removed from the average joe, that it's futile to compare them. So yeah, Pros are good players. GSL winners are good players. That doesn't mean someone in master isn't a good player too. | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On October 04 2020 06:06 Charoisaur wrote: only GSL winners can claim to be good players imo Sniper confirmed. YISS! On October 04 2020 06:21 [Phantom] wrote: I think diamond players definitely know what they are doing and people underestimate all leagues in general. I think outside of the two lowest leagues players kinda know what they are doing. some may don't know, some may just do 1 buildorder well, but many of them could have another thing holding them back. Maybe someone he plays one match a day because he doesn't have much time. He watches the GSL, reads TL etc but he simply can't practice enough to increase his mechanical skill fast. Now, is this player good? Probably not, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have idea of what he is doing. Some people also simply have a lower mechanicall skill cap. For you it might be masters, or diamond, or gold, who knows. I think there are two levels of good, and of course it's relative. The first level is of the casual player, the general population, aka, all of us. in this case, good I would say is GM, Masters, Diamond are good. (and maybe like I said above, anyone that's on the top of 50% of the playerbase could technically be considered good). And then there's Pros, which you need to put them aside in a completely different category. There's no point in comparing them to the average player. They play all day, they get paid to play, the have no other major responsabilities, they can focus, they have practice partners etc. There's no comparison. Even then, there are different skill levels amongst pros too. In that sense, some pros could be bad relatively to another. Obviously, they would all be objectively good when compared to the playerbase, but they are so far removed from the average joe, that it's futile to compare them. So yeah, Pros are good players. GSL winners are good players. That doesn't mean someone in master isn't a good player too. I really think people need to start watching the angry coach of Winter(or similar shows) where you know the league and you watch in terror how people cannot follow a build order for 4 minutes. Like when - oh god, I saw a Terran with an expansion, ABORT, BO FAILED, ABORT!!!! | ||
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Calliope
297 Posts
On October 04 2020 03:34 Durnuu wrote: Never, everyone sucks This kind of reductionistic crap ruined MOBAs for me. As a community that is already very toxic there is no need for the humour to be based around shitting on everyone. This is why regular sports will always be better than esports (that and the balance issues in esports). I thought I was above average, but that thread showing the distribution of MMR showed that I was apparently right on the mean of my race (Z, so I was already carried by the meta to boot!). If you are +1SD or even +2SD there is no point in not celebrating that as being good. Let's be at least a little bit better than the MOBAs. Some people have jobs and priorities that are far more important than this game so we can at least admit that someone is good even if he is not a pro. | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On October 04 2020 06:28 Calliope wrote: This kind of reductionistic crap ruined MOBAs for me. As a community that is already very toxic there is no need for the humour to be based around shitting on everyone. This is why regular sports will always be better than esports (that and the balance issues in esports). I thought I was above average, but that thread showing the distribution of MMR showed that I was apparently right on the mean of my race (Z, so I was already carried by the meta to boot!). If you are +1SD or even +2SD there is no point in not celebrating that as being good. Let's be at least a little bit better than the MOBAs. Some people have jobs and priorities that are far more important than this game so we can at least admit that someone is good even if he is not a pro. Dude. This is 1v1. And it's YOU, who decides. There's no standard for being good. Just enjoy the game and meet your goals. If it's not being supply blocked at 36 or win over 50 % of games, or cheese everyone on the ladder. Set up goals, accomplish them, have fun. Remember, it's you who decides if you're happy. If you're happy after a session of SC2, you're good in this game no matter how much you suck  | ||
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Calliope
297 Posts
On October 04 2020 06:33 deacon.frost wrote: Dude. This is 1v1. And it's YOU, who decides. There's no standard for being good. Just enjoy the game and meet your goals. If it's not being supply blocked at 36 or win over 50 % of games, or cheese everyone on the ladder. Set up goals, accomplish them, have fun. Remember, it's you who decides if you're happy. If you're happy after a session of SC2, you're good in this game no matter how much you suck I agree, my point was just that a toxic community throwing around "everyone sucks" crap isn't doing anyone any favours. Being good is a relative concept, "everyone sucks" is as meaningless as it is stupid. | ||
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dUTtrOACh
Canada2339 Posts
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ytherik
199 Posts
On October 04 2020 06:36 Calliope wrote: I agree, my point was just that a toxic community throwing around "everyone sucks" crap isn't doing anyone any favours. Being good is a relative concept, "everyone sucks" is as meaningless as it is stupid. SC2 community is a real gem. On the one hand we can reach absurd levels of toxicity, whining and disrespect, on the other we have hard data showing most people agree that one should glhf every game and gg even mid-level barcodes. | ||
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Thaniri
1264 Posts
On October 04 2020 04:55 Jan1997 wrote: 5k+ is good in my book. Anything lower and you are just a random goon. I got to 5012 mmr at one point today. Highest I ever got. Everyone is really bad here. I almost lost to a guy yesterday in a TvZ who went 2 base Roach Infestor Hydra Mutalisk Corruptor Infestor Broodlord as his unit composition. I didn't allow him to get a 3 base economy all game but I was too bad to actually kill his army. Eventually the way I won was by having mass 3-3 BCs teleport on top of his army (he had too much supply in swarm hosts), allowed him to neural all of my BCs but they had too much HP and the neurals expired letting my kill his army. That game was probably indistinguishable from diamond league. I don't know at what point people get good but it's definitely not at 5k. Edit: lot's of people complaining that this view is "toxic". These clown fiestas of games that I described above happen regularly. Quite literally decision making goes out the window and mechanics are questionable at best. | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
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