EPTThe mine change should not have gone through. It will have little or no impact at the top level but will have a negative effect for folks on ladder. Widow mine drops are already one of the worst things in the game from a gameplay perspective and their decision to encourage more of these drops is a poor choice. We want to get away from stupid coinflip strategies that decide entire games in under 10 seconds, not encourage them.
4.12.0 Patch Notes - Page 3
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Ben...
Canada3485 Posts
The mine change should not have gone through. It will have little or no impact at the top level but will have a negative effect for folks on ladder. Widow mine drops are already one of the worst things in the game from a gameplay perspective and their decision to encourage more of these drops is a poor choice. We want to get away from stupid coinflip strategies that decide entire games in under 10 seconds, not encourage them. | ||
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GrandSmurf
Netherlands462 Posts
On June 11 2020 01:49 freelifeffs wrote: whats there to explain? its obviously biased and idiotic thinking to say stuff like 'zerg doesnt need to worry about anything' and 'zerg doesnt need to think and can just always engage no matter how and what'. stuff like that is not productive for any kind of discussion and people who think like that have no right to tell others they 'need to understand' things first. granted, it is a bit of a hyperbole to state zerg have nothing to worry about. but lets be real here, they do have a rather care-free early game and can/could shrug off any harrasment pretty effortlessly and double expand. edit: within reason ofc. notwithstanding certain all-ins. | ||
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chipmonklord17
United States11944 Posts
On June 11 2020 03:47 GrandSmurf wrote: i dont feel particularly dumpster fired though :O. banelings are more useful than ducttape. they will fix most issues without too much effort. also, uses literally 3 times in one sentence. i cant take that seriously in any context. also since it not true. and the only one who is balance whining was the poster i responded to. ill concede i was being snarky and not entirely serious. i do take great pride in the fact he was probably frothing from the mouth when he posted that comment. heh. Because you seem so interested in feelings, if you must know, I laughed out loud at how idiotic a statement it would be to call one of the best designed new units brought to SC2 (The Baneling) a badly designed unit. Because interestingly enough, balance =/= game design, a unit doesn't have to be OP to be poorly designed, and OP units that are well designed can have their numbers changed and be back to a good spot. Interesting to say that Terran can make widow mines in any situation at any time is a false statement. Considering Bio Mine, Battle Mech, and standard mech heavily use mines, and they can be used against any composition that zerg or protoss makes at any time in the game as either harassers (because again they 1 shot workers at any time in the game) or as army units. But please, inform me of when mines aren't useful to a Terran? | ||
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Slydie
2011 Posts
On June 11 2020 02:23 Rubicant1 wrote: Goddam, you dumpstered that guy into oblivion. But yeah, like BL/Infestor, Swarmhosts, etc (which were all rightly nerfed), mines are exponentially harder to play against than use, with no real counters, at all levels of play. Banelings would fall more into this category if they didn't die upon use--also, they're basically the only supply-efficient unit Zerg has in non-mirrors these days. Did you ever try to play against banelings? Their main strength vs mines is that they are much more reliable and can be manually triggered. Mines have a delay and range, so it can be almost impossible to control where they go off. I agree Mines are not a good solution to force Zergs to micro and Protoss to be attentive, though. Removing them for stronger tanks and/or helbats could be a better solution. | ||
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mikedupp
233 Posts
On June 10 2020 18:12 xelnaga_empire wrote: I hope the new shield battery overcharge buff doesn't make PvsT worse at the top pro level. For the GSL Season 2 qualifiers, PvT was 76–34 (69.09%) as per Aligulac: http://aligulac.com/results/events/110098-GSL-2020-Season-2/. I hope the changes by the balance team will help PvsT return close to 50%, rather than the 69% win rate by Protoss over Terran in the GSL Season 2 qualifiers. do you take into consideration who the players are in your %? Because you could easily throw away a bunch of PvTs in this qualifier as mismatches. | ||
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GrandSmurf
Netherlands462 Posts
On June 11 2020 04:16 chipmonklord17 wrote: Because you seem so interested in feelings, if you must know, I laughed out loud at how idiotic a statement it would be to call one of the best designed new units brought to SC2 (The Baneling) a badly designed unit. Because interestingly enough, balance =/= game design, a unit doesn't have to be OP to be poorly designed, and OP units that are well designed can have their numbers changed and be back to a good spot. Interesting to say that Terran can make widow mines in any situation at any time is a false statement. Considering Bio Mine, Battle Mech, and standard mech heavily use mines, and they can be used against any composition that zerg or protoss makes at any time in the game as either harassers (because again they 1 shot workers at any time in the game) or as army units. But please, inform me of when mines aren't useful to a Terran? you sure 'sound' angry for someone so amused  keep fighting brother !  | ||
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NinjaNight
428 Posts
On June 11 2020 02:39 MockHamill wrote: The mine change does nothing if you get an observer or an oracle. Terran and Zerg need to get detection why should Protoss be any different? easier and quicker for terran to fly an unseen mine drop into your base kill all your probes and win the game just cause you happened to be not looking and distracted by something else for a couple seconds | ||
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Vision_
877 Posts
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Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
It’s super frustrating. Now I just proxy robo 4gate against Terran every game lately | ||
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SC-Shield
Bulgaria885 Posts
On June 11 2020 05:59 Chocolate wrote: Can confirm at Diamond 3 the widow mine change is a huge source of pain for me. I lost three games in a row against the same Terran player who just widow mine dropped me all the time (to their credit they did a good job sniping obs or my micro was sloppy and they got killed by the mines) It’s super frustrating. Now I just proxy robo 4gate against Terran every game lately This problem isn't any different from playing vs lurker zerg who snipes obs. You said it, you need to control your obs better. | ||
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Ciaus_Dronu
South Africa1848 Posts
On June 11 2020 06:11 SC-Shield wrote: This problem isn't any different from playing vs lurker zerg who snipes obs. You said it, you need to control your obs better. I've never had lurkers fly into my mineral lines between minutes 5 and 7 of a game, and then proceed to have those same lurkers snipe an obs using scan from a hatchery. Mines are awful to play against, and don't feel like a great unit to be buffing in terms of having much hope of enjoying vs Terran matchups. | ||
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SC-Shield
Bulgaria885 Posts
On June 11 2020 06:21 Ciaus_Dronu wrote: I've never had lurkers fly into my mineral lines between minutes 5 and 7 of a game, and then proceed to have those same lurkers snipe an obs using scan from a hatchery. Mines are awful to play against, and don't feel like a great unit to be buffing in terms of having much hope of enjoying vs Terran matchups. I don't know about zerg, but mines aren't much of a scouting problem in the current PvT meta. Protoss *always* has an obs before drop unless they're doing something sneaky. The meta is twilight into robo or robo 1st, so you have an obs anyway. | ||
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Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
On June 11 2020 06:41 SC-Shield wrote: I don't know about zerg, but mines aren't much of a scouting problem in the current PvT meta. Protoss *always* has an obs before drop unless they're doing something sneaky. The meta is twilight into robo or robo 1st, so you have an obs anyway. It would be less of an issue if obs didn’t get killed by the splash targetting ground units. It also does happen much earlier in the game and to react in time in practice you need detection and enough damage dealers by each mineral line to counter it (maybe not if your natural is not exposed via air). I suppose I can spend 300+ minerals at each base for cannons that provide sufficient coverage and get better at spotting drops but I’d rather rush every game than deal with widow mine bullshit. It seems like you also need to get fast obs before you push otherwise your army will probably just die in transit or on arrival unless you are very careful. | ||
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RandomPlayer416
84 Posts
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
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ilax30
720 Posts
On June 11 2020 07:30 RandomPlayer416 wrote: Battery Overcharge is the most overpowered thing its not even close to fair how broken it is. 1 stalker can literally hold off 3 marauders. . . How is this balanced? Just walk away for 14 seconds Kappa | ||
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RandomPlayer416
84 Posts
The 14 seconds it gives delays any early 2 rax pressure giving them enough time for gateways to come online as well as additional batteries. Its flat out broken and pretty much gaurantee's toss can remain greedy early game vs both races. I dont even want to think about how disgusting its going to make PvP. edit: Im 99% sure theyre going to come out and nerf it some how. Maybe the unit being healed cant move or attack while shields are regening? I dunno but something has to tone it down a little. | ||
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Alpharius
Vietnam40 Posts
Edit: I haven't tested it yet, does that ability work on shield battery??? And I'm not sure how useful it will be to hold all-in, considering any kind of zerg early all-in will involve a number of ravager. | ||
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xelnaga_empire
627 Posts
On June 11 2020 09:34 RandomPlayer416 wrote: The 14 seconds it gives delays any early 2 rax pressure giving them enough time for gateways to come online as well as additional batteries. Its flat out broken and pretty much gaurantee's toss can remain greedy early game vs both races. I dont even want to think about how disgusting its going to make PvP. I agree. They need to do something about the shield battery buff. As it stands right now, the shield battery buff is too strong. | ||
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thenanox
Spain73 Posts
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