The War Chest VI has been added in preparation for its global launch on June 11, PDT.
Play StarCraft II to unlock XP for the War Chest and gain access to over 100 new items including army-wide skins, sprays, emoticons, exclusive portraits, and a Co-op XP boost.
Purchasing the War Chest Complete Bundle grants you a special random race Broken World banner in StarCraft II, plus a Tal’darim Probe Pet in Diablo III, a Hearthstone Classic Card Pack, and a Heroes of the Storm rare Loot Chest. In addition, purchasing any War Chest Skin Bundle will grant you an immediate access to Ranked play.
Also, throughout the duration of the War Chest VI, players will be able to unlock free rewards, including classic StarCraft: Remastered skins for Command Center, Hatchery, and Nexus, with no additional purchase necessary.
2020 Ladder Season 2 has started with Patch 4.12.0. Learn more about the Season 2 Ladder maps in our blog.
VERSUS BALANCE UPDATE
Terran
Widow Mine
Drilling Claws upgrade no longer grants burrowed Widow Mines invisibility while reloading. Instead, the existence of an Armory will grant burrowed Widow Mines invisibility while reloading.
The red laser attachment for Widow Mines will now communicate the existence of an Armory instead of the completion of the Drilling Claws upgrade.
Zerg
Queen
Anti-air weapon range decreased from 8 to 7.
Baneling
Weapon damage changed from 20 (+15 vs light) to 18 (+17 vs light).
Infestor
Microbial Shroud no longer requires an upgrade.
Creep Tumor
“Armored” attribute removed.
“Light” attribute added.
Protoss
Nexus
New ability: “Battery Overcharge”
Effect: Overcharges a target Shield Battery near a Nexus, increasing its shield restoration rate by 100% and allowing it to restore shields without consuming energy for 14 seconds.
Cost: 50 Energy
Cooldown: 60 seconds (shared by all Nexuses)
Range: Unlimited (the target Battery must be within range 8 of any friendly Nexus)
Oracle
Revelation energy cost decreased from 50 to 25.
Revelation cooldown increased from 2 seconds to 10 seconds.
Revelation duration decreased from 30 seconds to 15 seconds.
High Templar
Feedback range increased from 9 to 10.
BUG FIXES
Co-op Missions
General
Fixed an issue where Brutal+ and - players are able to queue for Weekly Mutations on Brutal+1 difficulty.
Commanders
Mengsk
The Emperor's Shadow's EMP Blast now properly drain all energy on Battlecruisers and Hybrid Dominators.
Versus
General
Fixed an issue where a Rich Vespene Geyser would show up as two Vespene Geysers in the production tab while observing a match.
Fixed an issue where a Spore Crawler's footprint incorrectly appeared in the editor.
Fixed an issue where the Shield Battery's shadow was visible while the structure was cloaked.
Fixed an issue where hallucinations were dealing damage to targets affected by the Raven's Anti-Armor missile.
Fixed an issue where you can see the enemy Adept's Shade complete in the fog of war.
The Widow Mine's Concealment button was updated with new art.
Fixed an issue where a Battery Overcharged Shield Battery would not auto-cast if it had too low energy.
The Shield Battery's pre-placement image will now change colors when it's within range of a Nexus for the Battery Overcharge ability.
Fixed an issue where the morphing creep tumor’s attribute was armored instead of light.
Fixed an issue where players could no longer earn the Infested Terror achievement.
Maps
Flashback LE
Setup team placement locations for 1v1 and 2v2 matches.
Ice and Chrome LE
Fixed an issue where the map info screenshot was displaying doodad selection arrows.
Pillars of Gold LE
Removed shrub vision from certain areas on the map.
Purity and Industry LE
Removed "disallow creep" in areas that were unintended.
Fixed an issue where the pathing did not match the terrain in a certain area.
Fixed an issue where a Reaper could jump into an unintended area.
Zen LE
Updated doodads on the map to improve visibility for burrowed Widow Mines in certain areas.
Probably gonna be some proxy nexus shield battery shenanigans going on for a bit but of all the ways they could have pushed this change through, this is probably the best way to do it.
I hope the changes by the balance team will help PvsT return close to 50%, rather than the 69% win rate by Protoss over Terran in the GSL Season 2 qualifiers.
On June 10 2020 16:41 plainsane wrote: Widow. Mines. Every. Game. *sigh*
Time to play Terran I guess
Not a big deal, protoss always has an obs against +1 push. Widow mine drop will probably be unchanged, but it's still fine to get an obs. The shield buff might make PvP macro easier.
On June 10 2020 18:12 xelnaga_empire wrote: I hope the new shield battery overcharge buff doesn't make PvsT worse at the top pro level. For the GSL Season 2 qualifiers, PvT was 76–34 (69.09%) as per Aligulac: http://aligulac.com/results/events/110098-GSL-2020-Season-2/.
I hope the changes by the balance team will help PvsT return close to 50%, rather than the 69% win rate by Protoss over Terran in the GSL Season 2 qualifiers.
Well you have to consider TY, Innovation and Cure were already qualified so 3 of the 4 strongest Terrans didn't played this qualifier. So imo this percentages have close to no value
On June 10 2020 18:12 xelnaga_empire wrote: I hope the new shield battery overcharge buff doesn't make PvsT worse at the top pro level. For the GSL Season 2 qualifiers, PvT was 76–34 (69.09%) as per Aligulac: http://aligulac.com/results/events/110098-GSL-2020-Season-2/.
I hope the changes by the balance team will help PvsT return close to 50%, rather than the 69% win rate by Protoss over Terran in the GSL Season 2 qualifiers.
Well you have to consider TY, Innovation and Cure were already qualified so 3 of the 4 strongest Terrans didn't played this qualifier. So imo this percentages have close to no value
On June 10 2020 18:12 xelnaga_empire wrote: I hope the new shield battery overcharge buff doesn't make PvsT worse at the top pro level. For the GSL Season 2 qualifiers, PvT was 76–34 (69.09%) as per Aligulac: http://aligulac.com/results/events/110098-GSL-2020-Season-2/.
I hope the changes by the balance team will help PvsT return close to 50%, rather than the 69% win rate by Protoss over Terran in the GSL Season 2 qualifiers.
High quality cherry picking right there. Who cares about GSL Season 1 (47.7%) and TSL (51.90%) when you can just look at the ultimate testament to balance, GSL Season 2 Qualifiers. We could also look at HSC (40%) or Aligulac overall, where it has been between 46.89% and 53.57% since April.
Would love to see the Widow Mine change just cut, T is already OP, also Thor anti air vs Massive is still just kind of stupid. As a Protoss this patch is pretty nice, but I would still like to see Zergs in tournaments.
Really the Widow Mine should have a design rework, Hellbats are supposed to deal with mass Zealots and Lings, and Widow Mine should wreck stuff like Medivacs and always be stealthed, but I acknowledge this will take a bit more careful thinking.
On June 10 2020 19:57 ejozl wrote: Would love to see the Widow Mine change just cut, T is already OP, also Thor anti air vs Massive is still just kind of stupid. As a Protoss this patch is pretty nice, but I would still like to see Zergs in tournaments.
Really the Widow Mine should have a design rework, Hellbats are supposed to deal with mass Zealots and Lings, and Widow Mine should wreck stuff like Medivacs and always be stealthed, but I acknowledge this will take a bit more careful thinking.
I agree that widow mines is designed for the "scene" and it s a punishing unit but all things considered, if you didn t watch carefully the upgrade was mandatory in too many "builds in TvZ" (regarding Clem) so the team decided to cut it in two parts in order to avoid this.
I predict every Terran will open mine drop with a fast armory for a couple of weeks, then every Protoss will get an observer on time and mine drops will change back to the pre patch situation.
i love the changes, people need to understand that is very easy for Z to be in the game and dont have to worry about basically anything, now they need to rethink when they are engaging a terran army since baneling won't be able to deal with everything.
On June 10 2020 19:57 ejozl wrote: Would love to see the Widow Mine change just cut, T is already OP, also Thor anti air vs Massive is still just kind of stupid. As a Protoss this patch is pretty nice, but I would still like to see Zergs in tournaments.
Really the Widow Mine should have a design rework, Hellbats are supposed to deal with mass Zealots and Lings, and Widow Mine should wreck stuff like Medivacs and always be stealthed, but I acknowledge this will take a bit more careful thinking.
Yeah terran is so overpowered they choose to proxy and 1 base/2base all-in toss most of the time relying on mostly gambles instead of playing a straight up late game. Pretty weird for a race thats completely broken right?
Anyhow the shield battery change will help toss in stopping these pushes which involves a low unit count from both races meaning there will likely be more lategame TvP's in which toss have been looking very strong lately with the addition of blink dt's wrecking the terran every time they try to move out. So please sir, calm down and take a sip.
On June 10 2020 21:29 BonitiilloO wrote: i love the changes, people need to understand that is very easy for Z to be in the game and dont have to worry about basically anything, now they need to rethink when they are engaging a terran army since baneling won't be able to deal with everything.
and you need to understand that you dont start a message with 'people need to understand' if you clearly dont understand anything yourself.
On June 10 2020 21:29 BonitiilloO wrote: i love the changes, people need to understand that is very easy for Z to be in the game and dont have to worry about basically anything, now they need to rethink when they are engaging a terran army since baneling won't be able to deal with everything.
and you need to understand that you dont start a message with 'people need to understand' if you clearly dont understand anything yourself.
Honestly Widow Mines are a mistake. There's just no fixing that they're significantly significantly the unit with the worst ratio of "ability to use" versus "ability to defend against" with absurdly high use cases and ease of access and next to no counter-balances (I.E banelings counter balances are their lack of hitting air and their single use only).
On June 11 2020 00:09 chipmonklord17 wrote: Honestly Widow Mines are a mistake. There's just no fixing that they're significantly significantly the unit with the worst ratio of "ability to use" versus "ability to defend against" with absurdly high use cases and ease of access and next to no counter-balances (I.E banelings counter balances are their lack of hitting air and their single use only).
I would say a big counter balance is them dealing friendly fire. Can damage loads of bio or even kill a chunk of marines which happens in pro play all the time.
And at a lower lvl players have a tougher time dealing with widow mines, then again the terrans there kill their own units way more than at a higher lvl which evens it up a bit as well
On June 11 2020 00:09 chipmonklord17 wrote: Honestly Banelings are a mistake. There's just no fixing that they're significantly the unit with the worst ratio of "ability to use" versus "ability to defend against" with absurdly high use cases and ease of access and next to no counter-balances (I.E splitting takes so much more effort / APM than just A-moving into a clump of units).
On June 11 2020 00:09 chipmonklord17 wrote: Honestly Banelings are a mistake. There's just no fixing that they're significantly the unit with the worst ratio of "ability to use" versus "ability to defend against" with absurdly high use cases and ease of access and next to no counter-balances (I.E splitting takes so much more effort / APM than just A-moving into a clump of units).
fixed it for you.
Lol what?
Banelings: LITERALLY DIE on use Can be split against Require a speed upgrade to not get dumpstered by anyone doing any kind of splitting Slower speed off creep Cannot hit air Are bad against Mech/Immortals/Marauders Require Larva, which is the same resource as Drones Require +2 attack to one shot workers Have splash damage
Mines: Can be used infinitely Can be invisible and will automatically work with no player activation while underground Massive Splash damage Made out of a reactor Can be used in literally any comp against literally any units at literally any time in the game and be useful Cannot hit buildings Friendly Fire 1 shot workers at any point in the game
Any comparison to Zerg for the sake of balance whine, you may as well use old BLord Infestor because I'd totally agree with you. Using banelings as an example is hilarious, given all of their natural weaknesses to balance out what they can do
On June 11 2020 00:09 chipmonklord17 wrote: Honestly Widow Mines are a mistake. There's just no fixing that they're significantly significantly the unit with the worst ratio of "ability to use" versus "ability to defend against" with absurdly high use cases and ease of access and next to no counter-balances (I.E banelings counter balances are their lack of hitting air and their single use only).
I would say a big counter balance is them dealing friendly fire. Can damage loads of bio or even kill a chunk of marines which happens in pro play all the time.
And at a lower lvl players have a tougher time dealing with widow mines, then again the terrans there kill their own units way more than at a higher lvl which evens it up a bit as well
Never really considered friendly fire as such an enormous counter balance to make them a well designed unit, but that's a good point
On June 10 2020 21:29 BonitiilloO wrote: i love the changes, people need to understand that is very easy for Z to be in the game and dont have to worry about basically anything, now they need to rethink when they are engaging a terran army since baneling won't be able to deal with everything.
and you need to understand that you dont start a message with 'people need to understand' if you clearly dont understand anything yourself.
do tell, explain it to us then.
whats there to explain? its obviously biased and idiotic thinking to say stuff like 'zerg doesnt need to worry about anything' and 'zerg doesnt need to think and can just always engage no matter how and what'. stuff like that is not productive for any kind of discussion and people who think like that have no right to tell others they 'need to understand' things first.
On June 11 2020 00:09 chipmonklord17 wrote: Honestly Banelings are a mistake. There's just no fixing that they're significantly the unit with the worst ratio of "ability to use" versus "ability to defend against" with absurdly high use cases and ease of access and next to no counter-balances (I.E splitting takes so much more effort / APM than just A-moving into a clump of units).
fixed it for you.
Lol what?
Banelings: LITERALLY DIE on use Can be split against Require a speed upgrade to not get dumpstered by anyone doing any kind of splitting Slower speed off creep Cannot hit air Are bad against Mech/Immortals/Marauders Require Larva, which is the same resource as Drones Require +2 attack to one shot workers Have splash damage
Mines: Can be used infinitely Can be invisible and will automatically work with no player activation while underground Massive Splash damage Made out of a reactor Can be used in literally any comp against literally any units at literally any time in the game and be useful Cannot hit buildings Friendly Fire 1 shot workers at any point in the game
Any comparison to Zerg for the sake of balance whine, you may as well use old BLord Infestor because I'd totally agree with you. Using banelings as an example is hilarious, given all of their natural weaknesses to balance out what they can do
On June 11 2020 00:09 chipmonklord17 wrote: Honestly Widow Mines are a mistake. There's just no fixing that they're significantly significantly the unit with the worst ratio of "ability to use" versus "ability to defend against" with absurdly high use cases and ease of access and next to no counter-balances (I.E banelings counter balances are their lack of hitting air and their single use only).
I would say a big counter balance is them dealing friendly fire. Can damage loads of bio or even kill a chunk of marines which happens in pro play all the time.
And at a lower lvl players have a tougher time dealing with widow mines, then again the terrans there kill their own units way more than at a higher lvl which evens it up a bit as well
Never really considered friendly fire as such an enormous counter balance to make them a well designed unit, but that's a good point
Goddam, you dumpstered that guy into oblivion. But yeah, like BL/Infestor, Swarmhosts, etc (which were all rightly nerfed), mines are exponentially harder to play against than use, with no real counters, at all levels of play. Banelings would fall more into this category if they didn't die upon use--also, they're basically the only supply-efficient unit Zerg has in non-mirrors these days.
On June 11 2020 00:09 chipmonklord17 wrote: Honestly Banelings are a mistake. There's just no fixing that they're significantly the unit with the worst ratio of "ability to use" versus "ability to defend against" with absurdly high use cases and ease of access and next to no counter-balances (I.E splitting takes so much more effort / APM than just A-moving into a clump of units).
fixed it for you.
Lol what?
Banelings: LITERALLY DIE on use Can be split against Require a speed upgrade to not get dumpstered by anyone doing any kind of splitting Slower speed off creep Cannot hit air Are bad against Mech/Immortals/Marauders Require Larva, which is the same resource as Drones Require +2 attack to one shot workers Have splash damage
Mines: Can be used infinitely Can be invisible and will automatically work with no player activation while underground Massive Splash damage Made out of a reactor Can be used in literally any comp against literally any units at literally any time in the game and be useful Cannot hit buildings Friendly Fire 1 shot workers at any point in the game
Any comparison to Zerg for the sake of balance whine, you may as well use old BLord Infestor because I'd totally agree with you. Using banelings as an example is hilarious, given all of their natural weaknesses to balance out what they can do
On June 11 2020 00:28 ilax30 wrote:
On June 11 2020 00:09 chipmonklord17 wrote: Honestly Widow Mines are a mistake. There's just no fixing that they're significantly significantly the unit with the worst ratio of "ability to use" versus "ability to defend against" with absurdly high use cases and ease of access and next to no counter-balances (I.E banelings counter balances are their lack of hitting air and their single use only).
I would say a big counter balance is them dealing friendly fire. Can damage loads of bio or even kill a chunk of marines which happens in pro play all the time.
And at a lower lvl players have a tougher time dealing with widow mines, then again the terrans there kill their own units way more than at a higher lvl which evens it up a bit as well
Never really considered friendly fire as such an enormous counter balance to make them a well designed unit, but that's a good point
Goddam, you dumpstered that guy into oblivion. But yeah, like BL/Infestor, Swarmhosts, etc (which were all rightly nerfed), mines are exponentially harder to play against than use, with no real counters, at all levels of play. Banelings would fall more into this category if they didn't die upon use--also, they're basically the only supply-efficient unit Zerg has in non-mirrors these days.
i dont feel particularly dumpster fired though :O.
banelings are more useful than ducttape. they will fix most issues without too much effort. also, uses literally 3 times in one sentence. i cant take that seriously in any context. also since it not true.
and the only one who is balance whining was the poster i responded to.
ill concede i was being snarky and not entirely serious. i do take great pride in the fact he was probably frothing from the mouth when he posted that comment. heh.
I'm disappointed they didn't think this patch through more and try other changes. That battery change is probably going to have side effects that aren't currently known and already in my games of PvP it feels like things have gone too far. People are throwing down several batteries then playing super passive and turtling.
The mine change should not have gone through. It will have little or no impact at the top level but will have a negative effect for folks on ladder. Widow mine drops are already one of the worst things in the game from a gameplay perspective and their decision to encourage more of these drops is a poor choice. We want to get away from stupid coinflip strategies that decide entire games in under 10 seconds, not encourage them.
On June 10 2020 21:29 BonitiilloO wrote: i love the changes, people need to understand that is very easy for Z to be in the game and dont have to worry about basically anything, now they need to rethink when they are engaging a terran army since baneling won't be able to deal with everything.
and you need to understand that you dont start a message with 'people need to understand' if you clearly dont understand anything yourself.
do tell, explain it to us then.
whats there to explain? its obviously biased and idiotic thinking to say stuff like 'zerg doesnt need to worry about anything' and 'zerg doesnt need to think and can just always engage no matter how and what'. stuff like that is not productive for any kind of discussion and people who think like that have no right to tell others they 'need to understand' things first.
granted, it is a bit of a hyperbole to state zerg have nothing to worry about. but lets be real here, they do have a rather care-free early game and can/could shrug off any harrasment pretty effortlessly and double expand.
edit: within reason ofc. notwithstanding certain all-ins.
On June 11 2020 00:09 chipmonklord17 wrote: Honestly Banelings are a mistake. There's just no fixing that they're significantly the unit with the worst ratio of "ability to use" versus "ability to defend against" with absurdly high use cases and ease of access and next to no counter-balances (I.E splitting takes so much more effort / APM than just A-moving into a clump of units).
fixed it for you.
Lol what?
Banelings: LITERALLY DIE on use Can be split against Require a speed upgrade to not get dumpstered by anyone doing any kind of splitting Slower speed off creep Cannot hit air Are bad against Mech/Immortals/Marauders Require Larva, which is the same resource as Drones Require +2 attack to one shot workers Have splash damage
Mines: Can be used infinitely Can be invisible and will automatically work with no player activation while underground Massive Splash damage Made out of a reactor Can be used in literally any comp against literally any units at literally any time in the game and be useful Cannot hit buildings Friendly Fire 1 shot workers at any point in the game
Any comparison to Zerg for the sake of balance whine, you may as well use old BLord Infestor because I'd totally agree with you. Using banelings as an example is hilarious, given all of their natural weaknesses to balance out what they can do
On June 11 2020 00:28 ilax30 wrote:
On June 11 2020 00:09 chipmonklord17 wrote: Honestly Widow Mines are a mistake. There's just no fixing that they're significantly significantly the unit with the worst ratio of "ability to use" versus "ability to defend against" with absurdly high use cases and ease of access and next to no counter-balances (I.E banelings counter balances are their lack of hitting air and their single use only).
I would say a big counter balance is them dealing friendly fire. Can damage loads of bio or even kill a chunk of marines which happens in pro play all the time.
And at a lower lvl players have a tougher time dealing with widow mines, then again the terrans there kill their own units way more than at a higher lvl which evens it up a bit as well
Never really considered friendly fire as such an enormous counter balance to make them a well designed unit, but that's a good point
Goddam, you dumpstered that guy into oblivion. But yeah, like BL/Infestor, Swarmhosts, etc (which were all rightly nerfed), mines are exponentially harder to play against than use, with no real counters, at all levels of play. Banelings would fall more into this category if they didn't die upon use--also, they're basically the only supply-efficient unit Zerg has in non-mirrors these days.
i dont feel particularly dumpster fired though :O.
banelings are more useful than ducttape. they will fix most issues without too much effort. also, uses literally 3 times in one sentence. i cant take that seriously in any context. also since it not true.
and the only one who is balance whining was the poster i responded to.
ill concede i was being snarky and not entirely serious. i do take great pride in the fact he was probably frothing from the mouth when he posted that comment. heh.
Because you seem so interested in feelings, if you must know, I laughed out loud at how idiotic a statement it would be to call one of the best designed new units brought to SC2 (The Baneling) a badly designed unit. Because interestingly enough, balance =/= game design, a unit doesn't have to be OP to be poorly designed, and OP units that are well designed can have their numbers changed and be back to a good spot.
Interesting to say that Terran can make widow mines in any situation at any time is a false statement. Considering Bio Mine, Battle Mech, and standard mech heavily use mines, and they can be used against any composition that zerg or protoss makes at any time in the game as either harassers (because again they 1 shot workers at any time in the game) or as army units. But please, inform me of when mines aren't useful to a Terran?
On June 11 2020 00:09 chipmonklord17 wrote: Honestly Banelings are a mistake. There's just no fixing that they're significantly the unit with the worst ratio of "ability to use" versus "ability to defend against" with absurdly high use cases and ease of access and next to no counter-balances (I.E splitting takes so much more effort / APM than just A-moving into a clump of units).
fixed it for you.
Lol what?
Banelings: LITERALLY DIE on use Can be split against Require a speed upgrade to not get dumpstered by anyone doing any kind of splitting Slower speed off creep Cannot hit air Are bad against Mech/Immortals/Marauders Require Larva, which is the same resource as Drones Require +2 attack to one shot workers Have splash damage
Mines: Can be used infinitely Can be invisible and will automatically work with no player activation while underground Massive Splash damage Made out of a reactor Can be used in literally any comp against literally any units at literally any time in the game and be useful Cannot hit buildings Friendly Fire 1 shot workers at any point in the game
Any comparison to Zerg for the sake of balance whine, you may as well use old BLord Infestor because I'd totally agree with you. Using banelings as an example is hilarious, given all of their natural weaknesses to balance out what they can do
On June 11 2020 00:28 ilax30 wrote:
On June 11 2020 00:09 chipmonklord17 wrote: Honestly Widow Mines are a mistake. There's just no fixing that they're significantly significantly the unit with the worst ratio of "ability to use" versus "ability to defend against" with absurdly high use cases and ease of access and next to no counter-balances (I.E banelings counter balances are their lack of hitting air and their single use only).
I would say a big counter balance is them dealing friendly fire. Can damage loads of bio or even kill a chunk of marines which happens in pro play all the time.
And at a lower lvl players have a tougher time dealing with widow mines, then again the terrans there kill their own units way more than at a higher lvl which evens it up a bit as well
Never really considered friendly fire as such an enormous counter balance to make them a well designed unit, but that's a good point
Goddam, you dumpstered that guy into oblivion. But yeah, like BL/Infestor, Swarmhosts, etc (which were all rightly nerfed), mines are exponentially harder to play against than use, with no real counters, at all levels of play. Banelings would fall more into this category if they didn't die upon use--also, they're basically the only supply-efficient unit Zerg has in non-mirrors these days.
Did you ever try to play against banelings? Their main strength vs mines is that they are much more reliable and can be manually triggered. Mines have a delay and range, so it can be almost impossible to control where they go off.
I agree Mines are not a good solution to force Zergs to micro and Protoss to be attentive, though. Removing them for stronger tanks and/or helbats could be a better solution.
On June 10 2020 18:12 xelnaga_empire wrote: I hope the new shield battery overcharge buff doesn't make PvsT worse at the top pro level. For the GSL Season 2 qualifiers, PvT was 76–34 (69.09%) as per Aligulac: http://aligulac.com/results/events/110098-GSL-2020-Season-2/.
I hope the changes by the balance team will help PvsT return close to 50%, rather than the 69% win rate by Protoss over Terran in the GSL Season 2 qualifiers.
do you take into consideration who the players are in your %? Because you could easily throw away a bunch of PvTs in this qualifier as mismatches.
On June 11 2020 00:09 chipmonklord17 wrote: Honestly Banelings are a mistake. There's just no fixing that they're significantly the unit with the worst ratio of "ability to use" versus "ability to defend against" with absurdly high use cases and ease of access and next to no counter-balances (I.E splitting takes so much more effort / APM than just A-moving into a clump of units).
fixed it for you.
Lol what?
Banelings: LITERALLY DIE on use Can be split against Require a speed upgrade to not get dumpstered by anyone doing any kind of splitting Slower speed off creep Cannot hit air Are bad against Mech/Immortals/Marauders Require Larva, which is the same resource as Drones Require +2 attack to one shot workers Have splash damage
Mines: Can be used infinitely Can be invisible and will automatically work with no player activation while underground Massive Splash damage Made out of a reactor Can be used in literally any comp against literally any units at literally any time in the game and be useful Cannot hit buildings Friendly Fire 1 shot workers at any point in the game
Any comparison to Zerg for the sake of balance whine, you may as well use old BLord Infestor because I'd totally agree with you. Using banelings as an example is hilarious, given all of their natural weaknesses to balance out what they can do
On June 11 2020 00:28 ilax30 wrote:
On June 11 2020 00:09 chipmonklord17 wrote: Honestly Widow Mines are a mistake. There's just no fixing that they're significantly significantly the unit with the worst ratio of "ability to use" versus "ability to defend against" with absurdly high use cases and ease of access and next to no counter-balances (I.E banelings counter balances are their lack of hitting air and their single use only).
I would say a big counter balance is them dealing friendly fire. Can damage loads of bio or even kill a chunk of marines which happens in pro play all the time.
And at a lower lvl players have a tougher time dealing with widow mines, then again the terrans there kill their own units way more than at a higher lvl which evens it up a bit as well
Never really considered friendly fire as such an enormous counter balance to make them a well designed unit, but that's a good point
Goddam, you dumpstered that guy into oblivion. But yeah, like BL/Infestor, Swarmhosts, etc (which were all rightly nerfed), mines are exponentially harder to play against than use, with no real counters, at all levels of play. Banelings would fall more into this category if they didn't die upon use--also, they're basically the only supply-efficient unit Zerg has in non-mirrors these days.
i dont feel particularly dumpster fired though :O.
banelings are more useful than ducttape. they will fix most issues without too much effort. also, uses literally 3 times in one sentence. i cant take that seriously in any context. also since it not true.
and the only one who is balance whining was the poster i responded to.
ill concede i was being snarky and not entirely serious. i do take great pride in the fact he was probably frothing from the mouth when he posted that comment. heh.
Because you seem so interested in feelings, if you must know, I laughed out loud at how idiotic a statement it would be to call one of the best designed new units brought to SC2 (The Baneling) a badly designed unit. Because interestingly enough, balance =/= game design, a unit doesn't have to be OP to be poorly designed, and OP units that are well designed can have their numbers changed and be back to a good spot.
Interesting to say that Terran can make widow mines in any situation at any time is a false statement. Considering Bio Mine, Battle Mech, and standard mech heavily use mines, and they can be used against any composition that zerg or protoss makes at any time in the game as either harassers (because again they 1 shot workers at any time in the game) or as army units. But please, inform me of when mines aren't useful to a Terran?
On June 11 2020 02:39 MockHamill wrote: The mine change does nothing if you get an observer or an oracle.
Terran and Zerg need to get detection why should Protoss be any different?
easier and quicker for terran to fly an unseen mine drop into your base kill all your probes and win the game just cause you happened to be not looking and distracted by something else for a couple seconds
Can confirm at Diamond 3 the widow mine change is a huge source of pain for me. I lost three games in a row against the same Terran player who just widow mine dropped me all the time (to their credit they did a good job sniping obs or my micro was sloppy and they got killed by the mines)
It’s super frustrating. Now I just proxy robo 4gate against Terran every game lately
On June 11 2020 05:59 Chocolate wrote: Can confirm at Diamond 3 the widow mine change is a huge source of pain for me. I lost three games in a row against the same Terran player who just widow mine dropped me all the time (to their credit they did a good job sniping obs or my micro was sloppy and they got killed by the mines)
It’s super frustrating. Now I just proxy robo 4gate against Terran every game lately
This problem isn't any different from playing vs lurker zerg who snipes obs. You said it, you need to control your obs better.
On June 11 2020 05:59 Chocolate wrote: Can confirm at Diamond 3 the widow mine change is a huge source of pain for me. I lost three games in a row against the same Terran player who just widow mine dropped me all the time (to their credit they did a good job sniping obs or my micro was sloppy and they got killed by the mines)
It’s super frustrating. Now I just proxy robo 4gate against Terran every game lately
This problem isn't any different from playing vs lurker zerg who snipes obs. You said it, you need to control your obs better.
I've never had lurkers fly into my mineral lines between minutes 5 and 7 of a game, and then proceed to have those same lurkers snipe an obs using scan from a hatchery.
Mines are awful to play against, and don't feel like a great unit to be buffing in terms of having much hope of enjoying vs Terran matchups.
On June 11 2020 05:59 Chocolate wrote: Can confirm at Diamond 3 the widow mine change is a huge source of pain for me. I lost three games in a row against the same Terran player who just widow mine dropped me all the time (to their credit they did a good job sniping obs or my micro was sloppy and they got killed by the mines)
It’s super frustrating. Now I just proxy robo 4gate against Terran every game lately
This problem isn't any different from playing vs lurker zerg who snipes obs. You said it, you need to control your obs better.
I've never had lurkers fly into my mineral lines between minutes 5 and 7 of a game, and then proceed to have those same lurkers snipe an obs using scan from a hatchery.
Mines are awful to play against, and don't feel like a great unit to be buffing in terms of having much hope of enjoying vs Terran matchups.
I don't know about zerg, but mines aren't much of a scouting problem in the current PvT meta. Protoss *always* has an obs before drop unless they're doing something sneaky. The meta is twilight into robo or robo 1st, so you have an obs anyway.
On June 11 2020 05:59 Chocolate wrote: Can confirm at Diamond 3 the widow mine change is a huge source of pain for me. I lost three games in a row against the same Terran player who just widow mine dropped me all the time (to their credit they did a good job sniping obs or my micro was sloppy and they got killed by the mines)
It’s super frustrating. Now I just proxy robo 4gate against Terran every game lately
This problem isn't any different from playing vs lurker zerg who snipes obs. You said it, you need to control your obs better.
I've never had lurkers fly into my mineral lines between minutes 5 and 7 of a game, and then proceed to have those same lurkers snipe an obs using scan from a hatchery.
Mines are awful to play against, and don't feel like a great unit to be buffing in terms of having much hope of enjoying vs Terran matchups.
I don't know about zerg, but mines aren't much of a scouting problem in the current PvT meta. Protoss *always* has an obs before drop unless they're doing something sneaky. The meta is twilight into robo or robo 1st, so you have an obs anyway.
It would be less of an issue if obs didn’t get killed by the splash targetting ground units. It also does happen much earlier in the game and to react in time in practice you need detection and enough damage dealers by each mineral line to counter it (maybe not if your natural is not exposed via air). I suppose I can spend 300+ minerals at each base for cannons that provide sufficient coverage and get better at spotting drops but I’d rather rush every game than deal with widow mine bullshit.
It seems like you also need to get fast obs before you push otherwise your army will probably just die in transit or on arrival unless you are very careful.
Battery Overcharge is the most overpowered thing its not even close to fair how broken it is. 1 stalker can literally hold off 3 marauders. . . How is this balanced?
On June 11 2020 07:30 RandomPlayer416 wrote: Battery Overcharge is the most overpowered thing its not even close to fair how broken it is. 1 stalker can literally hold off 3 marauders. . . How is this balanced?
On June 11 2020 07:30 RandomPlayer416 wrote: Battery Overcharge is the most overpowered thing its not even close to fair how broken it is. 1 stalker can literally hold off 3 marauders. . . How is this balanced?
Just walk away for 14 seconds Kappa
The 14 seconds it gives delays any early 2 rax pressure giving them enough time for gateways to come online as well as additional batteries.
Its flat out broken and pretty much gaurantee's toss can remain greedy early game vs both races. I dont even want to think about how disgusting its going to make PvP.
edit:
Im 99% sure theyre going to come out and nerf it some how. Maybe the unit being healed cant move or attack while shields are regening? I dunno but something has to tone it down a little.
Battery overcharge doesn't seems to be very useful in PvZ, beside holding early aggression. It doesn't really take much effort to use an overseer to disable that battery. Edit: I haven't tested it yet, does that ability work on shield battery??? And I'm not sure how useful it will be to hold all-in, considering any kind of zerg early all-in will involve a number of ravager.
On June 11 2020 09:34 RandomPlayer416 wrote: The 14 seconds it gives delays any early 2 rax pressure giving them enough time for gateways to come online as well as additional batteries.
Its flat out broken and pretty much gaurantee's toss can remain greedy early game vs both races. I dont even want to think about how disgusting its going to make PvP.
I agree. They need to do something about the shield battery buff. As it stands right now, the shield battery buff is too strong.
i feel that Battery overcharge is too specific for a SC2 ability, usually good abilities in SC2 tend to be general, and players find a way to make it work for specifics.. they never gonna find a proper balance for the nexus/mothership abilities. its being a hell
On June 11 2020 07:30 RandomPlayer416 wrote: Battery Overcharge is the most overpowered thing its not even close to fair how broken it is. 1 stalker can literally hold off 3 marauders. . . How is this balanced?
It's also just a really poor design choice =/ After the pylon overcharge fiasco, I'm not sure how we're still getting these weird early game protoss defense spells.
On June 10 2020 21:29 BonitiilloO wrote: i love the changes, people need to understand that is very easy for Z to be in the game and dont have to worry about basically anything, now they need to rethink when they are engaging a terran army since baneling won't be able to deal with everything.
and you need to understand that you dont start a message with 'people need to understand' if you clearly dont understand anything yourself.
do tell, explain it to us then.
whats there to explain? its obviously biased and idiotic thinking to say stuff like 'zerg doesnt need to worry about anything' and 'zerg doesnt need to think and can just always engage no matter how and what'. stuff like that is not productive for any kind of discussion and people who think like that have no right to tell others they 'need to understand' things first.
granted, it is a bit of a hyperbole to state zerg have nothing to worry about. but lets be real here, they do have a rather care-free early game and can/could shrug off any harrasment pretty effortlessly and double expand.
edit: within reason ofc. notwithstanding certain all-ins.
thats what i wanted to say initially, sorry if i offended anyone, but zerg has a very EZ gameplay out, also maps help zerg a lot all fricking maps have a place to hide the ovi next to the natural...
On June 11 2020 22:16 royalroadweed wrote: Didn't expect shield overcharge to be as strong as it is.
I said repeatedly before the patch it would be to good and kill a lot of aggressive Terran builds, now proxy builds suck and toss can even more saftley pursue the fast third into 3 kinds of aoe strat that is really strong... not many people seemed to want to talk about it meanwhile there are all these people whining about widow mine change, even though if they do a normal build order with 2 obs it basically does not change anything from how widowmine worked pre patch. Yes if your bad and can’t have obs in second hotkey or deployed and you lose it you now might take a second round of shots but it really changes very little at least for toss, for zerg it’s a bit diffrent since typically Terran can defend the mines better vs muta ling bane so unless banes killed them they might now get a second round of shots. Based on the fact that if you were going to go a lot of mines you typically would grab drilling claws and still will I think this change probably gives Terran 2 to 3 extra mine hits per game, that can be impactful since a mine can hit a big bane clump and get 10-15 bane kills or it can be detrimental, zerg can outmicro it and kill a pack of marines with terran’s own mine, mines are so variable quite often this change has no or little impact for Terran. Occasionally it will matter.
On June 11 2020 19:31 naughtDE wrote: I am sad. I am still waiting for purifier building skins ... that and the widow mine buff... first warchest I gonna skip.
Same here. This war chest is attrocious. Zerg skins are same as default but with 4 spikes added, terrans are just 120% brightness of regular ones, protoss is awful. I have all wc5 skins but have 0 desire to buy these.
It lasts 14 seconds and the cooldown is 1 minute.... can you not just force them to trigger it, back off, and re-engage in 14 seconds... or is this like proxy a-move in Gold league isn't working anymore style of whining.
On June 12 2020 16:17 Zanzabarr wrote: It lasts 14 seconds and the cooldown is 1 minute.... can you not just force them to trigger it, back off, and re-engage in 14 seconds... or is this like proxy a-move in Gold league isn't working anymore style of whining.
14 seconds does not matter much in gold. But good luck trying to go 2-base all-in on pro level after this change.
The good thing I guess is that it will be possible to see the real balance in macro games, when Terran can no longer all-in in order to avoid the late game.
On June 12 2020 16:37 M2 wrote: Similar to how mines are in Broodwar, widow mines should not trigger on workers and thats it
Widow mines have been like this for so long, there's no chance this will be done soon. One argument is protoss has an oracle and terran's mines are an equivalent in terms of harassment.
Edit: Why did Blizzard disable changing race while searching for a 3vs3 game? It makes no sense..
The widow mine change seems like one of the most uninspired approaches to them so far. You... get an ability? When you build a building? It just feels not very "clicky upgrade gogo timing." Also it's incredibly difficult to communicate the change through tooltips or anything for a player picking up the game. Just kind of seems like a hack.
On June 12 2020 16:37 M2 wrote: Similar to how mines are in Broodwar, widow mines should not trigger on workers and thats it
Widow mines have been like this for so long, there's no chance this will be done soon. One argument is protoss has an oracle and terran's mines are an equivalent in terms of harassment.
Edit: Why did Blizzard disable changing race while searching for a 3vs3 game? It makes no sense..
It is not equivalent. 1. Widowmines deal extra dmg to shields. Probes aswell as drones have less hp then scvs on top of that, so the only race that doesn't have to suffer instant losses because of a second of not reacting correctly is terran -.- (they do so against disruptors and boy oh boy do they like it) 2. The second point is less about Worker harrass, but the unit in general. It does somewhat compare to an oracle stasis ward, as in it is invisible, you set it and you forgot about it. The only redeeming argument for the disruptor is, at least protoss had to look at the screen while winning the game in 1 shot, terran does not with widowmines. Also, while walking into a stasis ward at the wrong time can cost you the game, and a stasis ward on a mineral line can set you economically far behind, it feels less shitty when you at least get your units back after 21 seconds...yeah, widow mines should trigger the black hole ability the mothership once had, I'd be down for that.
On June 12 2020 16:37 M2 wrote: Similar to how mines are in Broodwar, widow mines should not trigger on workers and thats it
Widow mines have been like this for so long, there's no chance this will be done soon. One argument is protoss has an oracle and terran's mines are an equivalent in terms of harassment.
Edit: Why did Blizzard disable changing race while searching for a 3vs3 game? It makes no sense..
It is not equivalent. 1. Widowmines deal extra dmg to shields. Probes aswell as drones have less hp then scvs on top of that, so the only race that doesn't have to suffer instant losses because of a second of not reacting correctly is terran -.- (they do so against disruptors and boy oh boy do they like it) 2. The second point is less about Worker harrass, but the unit in general. It does somewhat compare to an oracle stasis ward, as in it is invisible, you set it and you forgot about it. The only redeeming argument for the disruptor is, at least protoss had to look at the screen while winning the game in 1 shot, terran does not with widowmines. Also, while walking into a stasis ward at the wrong time can cost you the game, and a stasis ward on a mineral line can set you economically far behind, it feels less shitty when you at least get your units back after 21 seconds...yeah, widow mines should trigger the black hole ability the mothership once had, I'd be down for that.
It's called asymmetric balance. It's not equivalent because it's not supposed to be equivalent, it's supposed to be asymmetric. And balanced. Last I checked, Protoss winrates are more or less fine against Terran. Widow mines and all.
Now if you were talking about a Zerg unit, say banelings, you might have more of a point. And whoa, what a surprise, this patch nerfed banelings. Funny how that works.
On June 12 2020 16:37 M2 wrote: Similar to how mines are in Broodwar, widow mines should not trigger on workers and thats it
Widow mines have been like this for so long, there's no chance this will be done soon. One argument is protoss has an oracle and terran's mines are an equivalent in terms of harassment.
Edit: Why did Blizzard disable changing race while searching for a 3vs3 game? It makes no sense..
This is a terrible argument though. Oracles are deflected by a single turret (or instantly killed by none other than a mine), and take three shots per SCV you want to kill. A mine drop can fly in over a cannon and a stalker, drop mines, normally get the medivac out, and have 10 probes dead effectively the second you hear anything resembling an attack alert.
On June 12 2020 16:37 M2 wrote: Similar to how mines are in Broodwar, widow mines should not trigger on workers and thats it
Widow mines have been like this for so long, there's no chance this will be done soon. One argument is protoss has an oracle and terran's mines are an equivalent in terms of harassment.
Edit: Why did Blizzard disable changing race while searching for a 3vs3 game? It makes no sense..
It is not equivalent. 1. Widowmines deal extra dmg to shields. Probes aswell as drones have less hp then scvs on top of that, so the only race that doesn't have to suffer instant losses because of a second of not reacting correctly is terran -.- (they do so against disruptors and boy oh boy do they like it) 2. The second point is less about Worker harrass, but the unit in general. It does somewhat compare to an oracle stasis ward, as in it is invisible, you set it and you forgot about it. The only redeeming argument for the disruptor is, at least protoss had to look at the screen while winning the game in 1 shot, terran does not with widowmines. Also, while walking into a stasis ward at the wrong time can cost you the game, and a stasis ward on a mineral line can set you economically far behind, it feels less shitty when you at least get your units back after 21 seconds...yeah, widow mines should trigger the black hole ability the mothership once had, I'd be down for that.
It's called asymmetric balance. It's not equivalent because it's not supposed to be equivalent, it's supposed to be asymmetric. And balanced. Last I checked, Protoss winrates are more or less fine against Terran. Widow mines and all.
Now if you were talking about a Zerg unit, say banelings, you might have more of a point. And whoa, what a surprise, this patch nerfed banelings. Funny how that works.
You completely missed the point. Sure TvP is fine from a winrate standpoint, does not mean disruptors or widowmines are fun to play against. In the OP I answered too, SC-Shield compared widow mines to oracles and that only makes sense if you remember the old oracles that 2 shot workers. They got nerfed...widow mines got buffed and they are one of the 3 most hated units.
On June 12 2020 21:52 Andi_Goldberger wrote: I dont understand why they buffed the mine when it is used in every matchup except TvT. It was in a fine spot, now its stronger for no reason
Don't forget that at some point in its history they also made it faster to produce, so one reactored factory can pump out more of the things than when mines were originally added in HotS, and it's not like they were bad then either.
On June 12 2020 16:37 M2 wrote: Similar to how mines are in Broodwar, widow mines should not trigger on workers and thats it
Widow mines have been like this for so long, there's no chance this will be done soon. One argument is protoss has an oracle and terran's mines are an equivalent in terms of harassment.
Edit: Why did Blizzard disable changing race while searching for a 3vs3 game? It makes no sense..
It is not equivalent. 1. Widowmines deal extra dmg to shields. Probes aswell as drones have less hp then scvs on top of that, so the only race that doesn't have to suffer instant losses because of a second of not reacting correctly is terran -.- (they do so against disruptors and boy oh boy do they like it) 2. The second point is less about Worker harrass, but the unit in general. It does somewhat compare to an oracle stasis ward, as in it is invisible, you set it and you forgot about it. The only redeeming argument for the disruptor is, at least protoss had to look at the screen while winning the game in 1 shot, terran does not with widowmines. Also, while walking into a stasis ward at the wrong time can cost you the game, and a stasis ward on a mineral line can set you economically far behind, it feels less shitty when you at least get your units back after 21 seconds...yeah, widow mines should trigger the black hole ability the mothership once had, I'd be down for that.
It's called asymmetric balance. It's not equivalent because it's not supposed to be equivalent, it's supposed to be asymmetric. And balanced. Last I checked, Protoss winrates are more or less fine against Terran. Widow mines and all.
Now if you were talking about a Zerg unit, say banelings, you might have more of a point. And whoa, what a surprise, this patch nerfed banelings. Funny how that works.
You completely missed the point. Sure TvP is fine from a winrate standpoint, does not mean disruptors or widowmines are fun to play against. In the OP I answered too, SC-Shield compared widow mines to oracles and that only makes sense if you remember the old oracles that 2 shot workers. They got nerfed...widow mines got buffed and they are one of the 3 most hated units.
On June 12 2020 23:00 stilt wrote: I actually vastly prefer wm over siege tank which is kind of a super boring unit and don't provide as much as micro interaction in zvt.
I do aswell. They were already meta tho. It was a fine unit. This change just makes the game more frustrating for no reason
We'll have to see how it goes, but these are a slew of pretty serious nerfs to Zerg and I'm sure the win rates will show us how the state of the game really is in the coming weeks.
Shroud is very strong, and not requiring an upgrade is insane, but the Queen nerf combined with the bane nerf might make Zerg feel very brittle against air play and holding bio pushes. Not that Zerg wasn't probably overtuned, but this might under tune them.
On June 13 2020 01:09 Beelzebub1 wrote: We'll have to see how it goes, but these are a slew of pretty serious nerfs to Zerg and I'm sure the win rates will show us how the state of the game really is in the coming weeks.
Shroud is very strong, and not requiring an upgrade is insane, but the Queen nerf combined with the bane nerf might make Zerg feel very brittle against air play and holding bio pushes. Not that Zerg wasn't probably overtuned, but this might under tune them.
Shroud is very strong? You do need it only in late game maybe and there an upgrade isn't the problem.
Infestors just suck they need IT back to do something in midgame for example Vs tanks or to harass. Just don't make it hit air or less dmg to air.
On June 13 2020 01:09 Beelzebub1 wrote: We'll have to see how it goes, but these are a slew of pretty serious nerfs to Zerg and I'm sure the win rates will show us how the state of the game really is in the coming weeks.
Shroud is very strong, and not requiring an upgrade is insane, but the Queen nerf combined with the bane nerf might make Zerg feel very brittle against air play and holding bio pushes. Not that Zerg wasn't probably overtuned, but this might under tune them.
Shroud is very strong? You do need it only in late game maybe and there an upgrade isn't the problem.
Infestors just suck they need IT back to do something in midgame for example Vs tanks or to harass. Just don't make it hit air or less dmg to air.
please dont give IT back, they have been either super OP or super useless at all times. Try another ability maybe, just not IT.
On June 13 2020 01:09 Beelzebub1 wrote: We'll have to see how it goes, but these are a slew of pretty serious nerfs to Zerg and I'm sure the win rates will show us how the state of the game really is in the coming weeks.
Shroud is very strong, and not requiring an upgrade is insane, but the Queen nerf combined with the bane nerf might make Zerg feel very brittle against air play and holding bio pushes. Not that Zerg wasn't probably overtuned, but this might under tune them.
Shroud is very strong? You do need it only in late game maybe and there an upgrade isn't the problem.
Infestors just suck they need IT back to do something in midgame for example Vs tanks or to harass. Just don't make it hit air or less dmg to air.
please dont give IT back, they have been either super OP or super useless at all times. Try another ability maybe, just not IT.
Yeah another useful ability for midgame would also be great. For a lair tech unit they are just 100 percent useless. Could also be a hive tech unit and no difference lol. Give them something to be a choice in midgame. For example shroud reduces all singe target damage not only air damage.
On June 13 2020 04:17 Freeborn wrote: But first give protoss gateway units more oomph.
Sure, just remove warpgate.
I always thought warpgate should be redesigned.
Warpgate should be a hero building ( can only have one of at a time). Starts with 4 charges, with an upgrade to make it 6 charges.
Gateways should be the main production. If protoss can have insane defender advantage with shield batteries, then they should not negate defender advantage of their opponent with warp prism and infinite instant warp ins. You could def tweak gateway units if needed, and maybe allow gateways to be able to make immortals. Then remove recall or add counter play like back when it was mothership core (u could actually stop them from recalling by killing mama core or abducting it).
Maybe then ZvP would be more like ZvT bio when players trade armies many times without it being game over for one side.
Really wish they would try to make ZvP have less seemingly 1 sided stomps where one army just rolls for the win. Right now armies avoid each other for a long time trying to kill workers, then theres one battle and its GG.
All you need to do is to put warpgate a bit later in the tech tree and then make sure that warp ins are slow and units take extra damage when warping in. That should balance it .
Then remove forcefield or replace with a slowing ability and now we can have good gateway units. Let's have stalkers with proper damage and adepts with maybe survivability (armor) or manual shade triggering. Or maybe even give all of them +1 armor. Stalkers should be fragile but do damage, could have less starting range but +1 range in the lategame... So many options...
People also like to forget how ridiculously imba mmm still is: - Anti air & ground - fast airborne with boost - insane dps with stim - self sustaining healing - can be comboed with ghosts for anti caster and instant 30%+ health of protoss
Tactically it's superior to any other composition in the game.
On June 13 2020 20:14 Freeborn wrote: All you need to do is to put warpgate a bit later in the tech tree and then make sure that warp ins are slow and units take extra damage when warping in. That should balance it .
Then remove forcefield or replace with a slowing ability and now we can have good gateway units. Let's have stalkers with proper damage and adepts with maybe survivability (armor) or manual shade triggering. Or maybe even give all of them +1 armor. Stalkers should be fragile but do damage, could have less starting range but +1 range in the lategame... So many options...
People also like to forget how ridiculously imba mmm still is: - Anti air & ground - fast airborne with boost - insane dps with stim - self sustaining healing - can be comboed with ghosts for anti caster and instant 30%+ health of protoss
Tactically it's superior to any other composition in the game.
The thing with bio is it scales with how good the player is. Even high gm players eat ruptors shots and storm, dont know how to move their army properly and dont have the apm to two prong well enough to get most out of the bio army.
So yes it can look broken and superior to every other composition when you see Clem play against zerg, split insanely well while at the mean time having a drop in the natural. But there is a reason only a few players in sc2 can control that army well enough. And most terran are just looking for a timing to end the game against both toss and zerg before it enters the lategame. As nearly every terran isnt comfortable fighting with a huge bio ball in the lategame against the splash which both zerg and toss lategame armies provide
On June 13 2020 20:14 Freeborn wrote: All you need to do is to put warpgate a bit later in the tech tree and then make sure that warp ins are slow and units take extra damage when warping in. That should balance it .
Then remove forcefield or replace with a slowing ability and now we can have good gateway units. Let's have stalkers with proper damage and adepts with maybe survivability (armor) or manual shade triggering. Or maybe even give all of them +1 armor. Stalkers should be fragile but do damage, could have less starting range but +1 range in the lategame... So many options...
People also like to forget how ridiculously imba mmm still is: - Anti air & ground - fast airborne with boost - insane dps with stim - self sustaining healing - can be comboed with ghosts for anti caster and instant 30%+ health of protoss
Tactically it's superior to any other composition in the game.
The thing with bio is it scales with how good the player is. Even high gm players eat ruptors shots and storm, dont know how to move their army properly and dont have the apm to two prong well enough to get most out of the bio army.
So yes it can look broken and superior to every other composition when you see Clem play against zerg, split insanely well while at the mean time having a drop in the natural. But there is a reason only a few players in sc2 can control that army well enough. And most terran are just looking for a timing to end the game against both toss and zerg before it enters the lategame. As nearly every terran isnt comfortable fighting with a huge bio ball in the lategame against the splash which both zerg and toss lategame armies provide
This guy is right, thats for sure. Bio is incredibly hard to control for low tear players. Its really hard to keep spliting, while getting marauders at the frontline and landing emps while you have to siege wm/tanks/liberators etc...
I have been playing terran every now and then and the only thing you need to learn to play half decent terran in diamond is to mmm micro and stutterstep. And if you make an early ghost you have almost won... (Okay to be fair I'm not sure if it's still enough in diamond but in plat it is )
It's really not that hard, it may become almost impossible lategame if you try to fight with a huge army but that's not how you are supposed to use it.
As you say it scales with player skill but it's already effective to use at lower skill levels and the problem is the other races and especially protoss does not have anything that can scale with skill like that. Speedlings are the the closest in utility to mmm IMO.
And protoss players can't even scale effectiveness with superior multitasking because protoss armies still suck when split up and not using AoE and unit synergies + warpin reinforcements.
I wish they'd consider making the radius bigger for some units. It would be a very cool change that could have nice effects on how splash units could be balanced.
On June 14 2020 06:18 neptunusfisk wrote: I wish they'd consider making the radius bigger for some units. It would be a very cool change that could have nice effects on how splash units could be balanced.
Thats actually a really good idea and would add balance without making any changes to units.
I'd say anything bigger than a marine should have some kind of invis radiance to prevent total clumping. Same with protoss, anything bigger than a zealot / adept has some kind of invis radius to it.
I'd argue that marines need it the most! It would help a lot of their problems (vulnerability to splash, weakness in small numbers but scaling to extreme strength when balled up tightly)
Blink and WP use has a very high skill cap as well, as AlphaStar has shown us. FFs and storms come close, but ye, protoss players have fewer ways to really impress a viewer than the other races, unfortunately. They tend to rely more on trickery.
On June 15 2020 02:27 Slydie wrote: Blink and WP use has a very high skill cap as well, as AlphaStar has shown us. FFs and storms come close, but ye, protoss players have fewer ways to really impress a viewer than the other races, unfortunately. They tend to rely more on trickery.
I disagree. I don't find Terran players impressive, it is all hands no brains. That is like being into an awesome violin player, I am more impressed by the composer that is dead since 300 years. Stats ability to basically play quick "trickeries", or chess with a 200ms round timer is the most impressive thing I ever witnessed in Sc2. Or SoS or Has and even Nony on Ladder, to come up with a unique approach to the game and to not just do the same as every other player of the race 0.5% better.
On June 13 2020 20:14 Freeborn wrote: All you need to do is to put warpgate a bit later in the tech tree and then make sure that warp ins are slow and units take extra damage when warping in. That should balance it .
Then remove forcefield or replace with a slowing ability and now we can have good gateway units. Let's have stalkers with proper damage and adepts with maybe survivability (armor) or manual shade triggering. Or maybe even give all of them +1 armor. Stalkers should be fragile but do damage, could have less starting range but +1 range in the lategame... So many options...
People also like to forget how ridiculously imba mmm still is: - Anti air & ground - fast airborne with boost - insane dps with stim - self sustaining healing - can be comboed with ghosts for anti caster and instant 30%+ health of protoss
Tactically it's superior to any other composition in the game.
The thing with bio is it scales with how good the player is. Even high gm players eat ruptors shots and storm, dont know how to move their army properly and dont have the apm to two prong well enough to get most out of the bio army.
So yes it can look broken and superior to every other composition when you see Clem play against zerg, split insanely well while at the mean time having a drop in the natural. But there is a reason only a few players in sc2 can control that army well enough. And most terran are just looking for a timing to end the game against both toss and zerg before it enters the lategame. As nearly every terran isnt comfortable fighting with a huge bio ball in the lategame against the splash which both zerg and toss lategame armies provide
You’re acting as if this doesn’t apply to Protoss and Zerg comps too. Zerg and Protoss armies scale with how good the players are too lol.
The only difference is that bio is the most versatile and most cost efficient composition in the game (unless 200/200 mech or mass BC) and to top it off moves extremely fluidly.
On June 13 2020 20:14 Freeborn wrote: All you need to do is to put warpgate a bit later in the tech tree and then make sure that warp ins are slow and units take extra damage when warping in. That should balance it .
Then remove forcefield or replace with a slowing ability and now we can have good gateway units. Let's have stalkers with proper damage and adepts with maybe survivability (armor) or manual shade triggering. Or maybe even give all of them +1 armor. Stalkers should be fragile but do damage, could have less starting range but +1 range in the lategame... So many options...
People also like to forget how ridiculously imba mmm still is: - Anti air & ground - fast airborne with boost - insane dps with stim - self sustaining healing - can be comboed with ghosts for anti caster and instant 30%+ health of protoss
Tactically it's superior to any other composition in the game.
The thing with bio is it scales with how good the player is. Even high gm players eat ruptors shots and storm, dont know how to move their army properly and dont have the apm to two prong well enough to get most out of the bio army.
So yes it can look broken and superior to every other composition when you see Clem play against zerg, split insanely well while at the mean time having a drop in the natural. But there is a reason only a few players in sc2 can control that army well enough. And most terran are just looking for a timing to end the game against both toss and zerg before it enters the lategame. As nearly every terran isnt comfortable fighting with a huge bio ball in the lategame against the splash which both zerg and toss lategame armies provide
You’re acting as if this doesn’t apply to Protoss and Zerg comps too. Zerg and Protoss armies scale with how good the players are too lol.
The only difference is that bio is the most versatile and most cost efficient composition in the game (unless 200/200 mech or mass BC) and to top it off moves extremely fluidly.
That's asymmetrical balance for you. Bio is strong to make up for Terran's other weaknesses. Alternatively, Terran has other weaknesses to make up for bio's strength. Likewise for Protoss and Zerg.
On June 15 2020 02:27 Slydie wrote: Blink and WP use has a very high skill cap as well, as AlphaStar has shown us. FFs and storms come close, but ye, protoss players have fewer ways to really impress a viewer than the other races, unfortunately. They tend to rely more on trickery.
I disagree. I don't find Terran players impressive, it is all hands no brains. That is like being into an awesome violin player, I am more impressed by the composer that is dead since 300 years. Stats ability to basically play quick "trickeries", or chess with a 200ms round timer is the most impressive thing I ever witnessed in Sc2. Or SoS or Has and even Nony on Ladder, to come up with a unique approach to the game and to not just do the same as every other player of the race 0.5% better.
User was warned for this post.
TvT has been very close to PvP in terms of buildorder luck and early game trickery at times, and I did not enjoy it. I don't have any reason to claim one race is more strategically advanced than others atm.
Yes, you probably have to know Protoss better than me to appreciate the skill of some of the timings, but I am not saying they have never impressed me! WP pickups, blink magic, razor sharp forge timings, storm drops and FF-doungnuts are all great things to watch.
On June 14 2020 06:18 neptunusfisk wrote: I wish they'd consider making the radius bigger for some units. It would be a very cool change that could have nice effects on how splash units could be balanced.
Thats actually a really good idea and would add balance without making any changes to units.
I'd say anything bigger than a marine should have some kind of invis radiance to prevent total clumping. Same with protoss, anything bigger than a zealot / adept has some kind of invis radius to it.
It could be a good idea if the size of units wasn t directly a part of the unit characteristic.. Ultralisk have problem to walk on the battlefield between buildings, Thors need space to move and deal damage...
If you want to resolve the "marines split" #pgm, you have to tweaks Banes. There s some way to do it, many ideas without not changes so much banes but it s an issue if you modify too many unit sizes. Starbow seems also to include a new pathfinding but i don t know if the code doesn t have issues on the latency overall.
On June 18 2020 20:28 Lexender wrote: This idea that bio is this unbeatable comp of cost eeficiency has been proven to be false.
In case no one remembers the last time bio was nerfed they had to roll back the change because bio became too weak. So stop deluding yourselves.
I actually don't remember, what was the patch?
The patch where they split the marauder attack in 2, it was even that big of a nerf and it still was rolled back.
Specifically - because of the ultralisk armor interaction. Ultras have 4 base armor so their effective DPS against them dropped sharply when that applied twice.
They lost their ability to trade dominantly against ultralisks but other unit interactions didn't change in very important ways AFAIK.
On June 18 2020 20:28 Lexender wrote: This idea that bio is this unbeatable comp of cost eeficiency has been proven to be false.
In case no one remembers the last time bio was nerfed they had to roll back the change because bio became too weak. So stop deluding yourselves.
I actually don't remember, what was the patch?
The patch where they split the marauder attack in 2, it was even that big of a nerf and it still was rolled back.
Specifically - because of the ultralisk armor interaction. Ultras have 4 base armor so their effective DPS against them dropped sharply when that applied twice.
They lost their ability to trade dominantly against ultralisks but other unit interactions didn't change in very important ways AFAIK.
Also it made bio too weak in TvP, chronoing +1 armor, zealots 1 base armor and guardian shield (2 armor).
I really hate what they have done to Vikings. I refuse to play standard TvT games because of it literally 3 rax marine SCV every single game
I feel like the Viking is the absolute worst unit in the Terran army but youre forced to make so many of them in every single match up. They should at worst be even with corruptors 1on1 considering how borken mass corruptors actually are. Their air attack needed a buff, not hte ground transformation. Literally every TvT is either a doom drop or mass viking / liberator push (which can't be stopped if youre ever behind a single viking).
I think if air upgrades are even you need 8/9 vikings to 1 shot a brood lord. Which means you need 18-20 vikings just to engage a broodlord army supported by infestor / hydra / corruptor.
Same goes for colossus, you need about 4 vikings per colossus (depending on the stalker count) to even consider engaging in the fight. Building vikings isnt a problem but the immediate tech switches ruin you even if you win the fight and have a good number of vikings remaining.
I dunno if this bothers anyone else but it really pisses me off because thors are somehow useless vs air armies.
.. because thors are somehow useless vs air armies.
o.O On my level thors are really good against air, especially in the high impact mode (11 range). Since the brood lord range nerf (range really is 10 now, broodling leash range 12->9) and the thor damage/cooldown changes (~+20% dps) they seem to do very well against capital ships/slow massive air units.
.. because thors are somehow useless vs air armies.
o.O On my level thors are really good against air, especially in the high impact mode (11 range). Since the brood lord range nerf (range really is 10 now, broodling leash range 12->9) and the thor damage/cooldown changes (~+20% dps) they seem to do very well against capital ships/slow massive air units.
Ya and what level is that?
Because even at mid Diamond rank, zergs are blinding cloud / abducting and neural parasiting thors with ease because theres a million broodlings out.
Thors Vs Battle Cruisers. Theres this thing called Yamato Cannon.
[QUOTE]On June 24 2020 08:22 RandomPlayer416 wrote: [QUOTE]On June 24 2020 06:14 bela.mervado wrote: [QUOTE].. because thors are somehow useless vs air armies.[/QUOTE]
o.O On my level thors are really good against air, especially in the high impact mode (11 range). Since the brood lord range nerf (range really is 10 now, broodling leash range 12->9) and the thor damage/cooldown changes (~+20% dps) they seem to do very well against capital ships/slow massive air units.[/QUOTE]
Ya and what level is that?
Because even at mid Diamond rank, zergs are blinding cloud / abducting and neural parasiting thors with ease because theres a million broodlings out. Even properly micro'd mutalisks completely WRECK Thors.
Thors Vs Battle Cruisers. Theres this thing called Yamato Cannon.
.. because thors are somehow useless vs air armies.
o.O On my level thors are really good against air, especially in the high impact mode (11 range). Since the brood lord range nerf (range really is 10 now, broodling leash range 12->9) and the thor damage/cooldown changes (~+20% dps) they seem to do very well against capital ships/slow massive air units.
Ya and what level is that?
Because even at mid Diamond rank, zergs are blinding cloud / abducting and neural parasiting thors with ease because theres a million broodlings out. Even properly micro'd mutalisks completely WRECK Thors.
Thors Vs Battle Cruisers. Theres this thing called Yamato Cannon.
Thors vs Carriers: Everything loses to Carriers.
my zerg is 4.xk and I'm proud of it although I mainly play 2v2s, and I do respect Thors.
about Thors vs BCs .. hmm I'd refer you to GSL 2020 S1 semifinals Cure vs Inno game 2
what a game Inno seems to be having some fun using Thor Raven against BC Tank in the late game. <spoilers: Inno wins this one>
against Carriers you have to shift right click on the big ships, otherwise Thors will shoot the small ships.
if you struggle in a matchup just post a replay in the terran help me thread, there still is an amazing community here and the high master-gm people will help you with a few useful tips.
my zerg is 4.xk and I'm proud of it although I mainly play 2v2s, and I do respect Thors.
about Thors vs BCs .. hmm I'd refer you to GSL 2020 S1 semifinals Cure vs Inno game 2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1gIP-Je7x4 what a game Inno seems to be having some fun using Thor Raven against BC Tank in the late game. <spoilers: Inno wins this one>
against Carriers you have to shift right click on the big ships, otherwise Thors will shoot the small ships.
if you struggle in a matchup just post a replay in the terran help me thread, there still is an amazing community here and the high master-gm people will help you with a few useful tips.
Sorry but youre comparing a top player in the world to a 4k mmr player and expect the results to be the same? It doesn't work. Nothing you see in the GSL is the same as a game between 4k mmr players.
The last thing in the world I am going to do is seek or accept advice from someone literally exactly the same skill as me and doesnt play Terran.
On June 24 2020 04:58 RandomPlayer416 wrote: I really hate what they have done to Vikings. I refuse to play standard TvT games because of it literally 3 rax marine SCV every single game
I feel like the Viking is the absolute worst unit in the Terran army but youre forced to make so many of them in every single match up. They should at worst be even with corruptors 1on1 considering how borken mass corruptors actually are. Their air attack needed a buff, not hte ground transformation. Literally every TvT is either a doom drop or mass viking / liberator push (which can't be stopped if youre ever behind a single viking).
I think if air upgrades are even you need 8/9 vikings to 1 shot a brood lord. Which means you need 18-20 vikings just to engage a broodlord army supported by infestor / hydra / corruptor.
Same goes for colossus, you need about 4 vikings per colossus (depending on the stalker count) to even consider engaging in the fight. Building vikings isnt a problem but the immediate tech switches ruin you even if you win the fight and have a good number of vikings remaining.
I dunno if this bothers anyone else but it really pisses me off because thors are somehow useless vs air armies.
I play random in masters 2 and I think that thor AA is super scary, Thors dominate air units since a player going thors in large numbers is usually meching they often have at least +2 upgrade advantage over air units, their range in high impact makes it so nothing can effectively kite them any more and they do an insane amount of burst damage and sustained anti air dps.
Yes vipers can counter thors but vipers are also not a cheep unit and their is counter micro from the terran side if thors+vikings focus fire the vipers as they try to cast spells they can be killed before the spells go off. In addition adding ghosts to your army, or focus firing tanks can prevent neural parasite from wrecking your thors.
In tvp I think thors are a bit worse, not because they dont wreck air units (they do with proper micro) but because their is not a good answer for mech vs high counts of disruptors paired with thors. Thors are really really slow so they have to rely on zoning units to deny disruptors, even if you split your thors you will always take hits. since toss has alot of strong ways to counter both tanks and libs in the supper late game thier is a sort of psuedo timer on any ground based mech army. I think you have to secure enough economy and tempo you can safely switch to bcs, or you have to do a big viking switch to clear out tempests.
thier was a game between clem and showtime where the extreme strength of mass disruptor+temepst vs a thor heavy army was showcased
I will concede however that yes in tvp and tvz vikings kind of suck they are a unit you have to build, not a unit you want to build, corruptors although stronger also used to suffer from the same lack of utility after a successful fight until they were given the current version of caustic spray. vikings are actually just quite strong in tvt, as you mentioned. But they are not a bad unit you have to make they are straight up a strong unit that you have the option to mass. Air control is so strong due to spotting, and latter the strength of ranged libs vs tanks. You can chose to not mass them however, even gsl finalists like cure prioritize medivacs over vikings and this style can be quite good at times since it gives your marines more sustain and your army more mobility. I think vikings are still the stronger tvt option but its dam hard to use a viking tank marine army compared to a medivac heavy one. if you get caught out of position vikings are useless compared to medivacs, they are only good if your tanks are sieged up in the right locations.
additionally landed vikings vs mech armys are actually pretty strong, the + to mech is a significant amount vs other terrans it just realy does not do much for them in tvp or tvz, in tvp zelots tank to many shots for it to matter and shred vikings.
in tvz I think the main thing is that unlike tvt zerg has 2 spell casters that both have fantastic aoe spells that hit air, this just makes vikings not scale well at all, you only make them if you are forced to as a response to broolords or vipers blinding cloud.
Also with regard to people who hate tvt, have you played the other races mirrors? terran has by far the best mirror. It feels like an actual match up vs the other races rather than some sort of cheese or droning minigame like pvp and zvz do. TVT is by far andaway a more complex and interesting mu than pvp has ever been, zvz can be interesting but for most of us noobs its just a ling bane into roach fest that rarely if ever goes into the more interesting late game stage.
On June 24 2020 04:58 RandomPlayer416 wrote: I really hate what they have done to Vikings. I refuse to play standard TvT games because of it literally 3 rax marine SCV every single game
I feel like the Viking is the absolute worst unit in the Terran army but youre forced to make so many of them in every single match up. They should at worst be even with corruptors 1on1 considering how borken mass corruptors actually are. Their air attack needed a buff, not hte ground transformation. Literally every TvT is either a doom drop or mass viking / liberator push (which can't be stopped if youre ever behind a single viking).
I think if air upgrades are even you need 8/9 vikings to 1 shot a brood lord. Which means you need 18-20 vikings just to engage a broodlord army supported by infestor / hydra / corruptor.
Same goes for colossus, you need about 4 vikings per colossus (depending on the stalker count) to even consider engaging in the fight. Building vikings isnt a problem but the immediate tech switches ruin you even if you win the fight and have a good number of vikings remaining.
I dunno if this bothers anyone else but it really pisses me off because thors are somehow useless vs air armies.
I play random in masters 2 and I think that thor AA is super scary, Thors dominate air units since a player going thors in large numbers is usually meching they often have at least +2 upgrade advantage over air units, their range in high impact makes it so nothing can effectively kite them any more and they do an insane amount of burst damage and sustained anti air dps.
Yes vipers can counter thors but vipers are also not a cheep unit and their is counter micro from the terran side if thors+vikings focus fire the vipers as they try to cast spells they can be killed before the spells go off. In addition adding ghosts to your army, or focus firing tanks can prevent neural parasite from wrecking your thors.
In tvp I think thors are a bit worse, not because they dont wreck air units (they do with proper micro) but because their is not a good answer for mech vs high counts of disruptors paired with thors. Thors are really really slow so they have to rely on zoning units to deny disruptors, even if you split your thors you will always take hits. since toss has alot of strong ways to counter both tanks and libs in the supper late game thier is a sort of psuedo timer on any ground based mech army. I think you have to secure enough economy and tempo you can safely switch to bcs, or you have to do a big viking switch to clear out tempests.
thier was a game between clem and showtime where the extreme strength of mass disruptor+temepst vs a thor heavy army was showcased
I will concede however that yes in tvp and tvz vikings kind of suck they are a unit you have to build, not a unit you want to build, corruptors although stronger also used to suffer from the same lack of utility after a successful fight until they were given the current version of caustic spray. vikings are actually just quite strong in tvt, as you mentioned. But they are not a bad unit you have to make they are straight up a strong unit that you have the option to mass. Air control is so strong due to spotting, and latter the strength of ranged libs vs tanks. You can chose to not mass them however, even gsl finalists like cure prioritize medivacs over vikings and this style can be quite good at times since it gives your marines more sustain and your army more mobility. I think vikings are still the stronger tvt option but its dam hard to use a viking tank marine army compared to a medivac heavy one. if you get caught out of position vikings are useless compared to medivacs, they are only good if your tanks are sieged up in the right locations.
additionally landed vikings vs mech armys are actually pretty strong, the + to mech is a significant amount vs other terrans it just realy does not do much for them in tvp or tvz, in tvp zelots tank to many shots for it to matter and shred vikings.
in tvz I think the main thing is that unlike tvt zerg has 2 spell casters that both have fantastic aoe spells that hit air, this just makes vikings not scale well at all, you only make them if you are forced to as a response to broolords or vipers blinding cloud.
Also with regard to people who hate tvt, have you played the other races mirrors? terran has by far the best mirror. It feels like an actual match up vs the other races rather than some sort of cheese or droning minigame like pvp and zvz do. TVT is by far andaway a more complex and interesting mu than pvp has ever been, zvz can be interesting but for most of us noobs its just a ling bane into roach fest that rarely if ever goes into the more interesting late game stage.
I'm not gonna argue about thors anymore, my main issue was the viking which you addressed. My point is TvT has basically flushed out mech as a viable strat simply with the ground attack buff. This means that you're countered by BIO and Mass air and once you go Mech its almost impossible to transition out unless you're playing a 30minute game and upgrading your bio the whole time while building 10 raxes and 8 starports just to cover your ass. I'm diamond with all races despite only playing Terran (rolls eyes) and ya I will literally insta quit a ZvZ and Cannon rush PvP no matter what so TvT is probably the most playable but easily the most annoying.
I will say one more thing about thors. You mentioned that a large number of thors is hard to deal with and I agree with you there. However it takes much longer to accumulate a large number of thors to the point where your opponent fears them. They also usually have 5/6 bases and can easily afford to build counter units at will.
Anyways I just think they should of buffed viking Air to Air vs BIO, rather than buff ground to ground vs mech. Thats all I'm really saying.
TLDR; Vikings too effective vs Terran, not effective enough vs Zerg, balanced vs protoss.
I dont mean to double post but its been almost a month.
Just wondering how people are feeling about TvP? All my early aggression builds have been put to rest from battery overcharge. I really cannot win a game vs protoss that lasts longer than 5minutes because its almost impossible to 2rax snipe the natural now.
What builds do protoss players hate to face? I'm willing to try anything because no I just leave games vs protoss.
On July 20 2020 23:29 RandomPlayer416 wrote: I dont mean to double post but its been almost a month.
Just wondering how people are feeling about TvP? All my early aggression builds have been put to rest from battery overcharge. I really cannot win a game vs protoss that lasts longer than 5minutes because its almost impossible to 2rax snipe the natural now.
What builds do protoss players hate to face? I'm willing to try anything because no I just leave games vs protoss.
The worst thing that can happen to a Protoss is to have their army sitting at the natural expansion or third base, and then being hit by siege tanks out of nowhere and seeing liberation zones form at the edge of the base.
If you can get siege tanks, ideally also liberators, and a ball of bio to just outside a Protoss base and siege up just out of his vision before he notices, then use your bio to drag him into siege tank and liberator firing zone, you’ll win almost every time. If he catches you on the map before you siege, you’ll probably lose.
On July 20 2020 23:29 RandomPlayer416 wrote: I dont mean to double post but its been almost a month.
Just wondering how people are feeling about TvP? All my early aggression builds have been put to rest from battery overcharge. I really cannot win a game vs protoss that lasts longer than 5minutes because its almost impossible to 2rax snipe the natural now.
What builds do protoss players hate to face? I'm willing to try anything because no I just leave games vs protoss.
The worst thing that can happen to a Protoss is to have their army sitting at the natural expansion or third base, and then being hit by siege tanks out of nowhere and seeing liberation zones form at the edge of the base.
If you can get siege tanks, ideally also liberators, and a ball of bio to just outside a Protoss base and siege up just out of his vision before he notices, then use your bio to drag him into siege tank and liberator firing zone, you’ll win almost every time. If he catches you on the map before you siege, you’ll probably lose.
unfortunately there is no strategy you can use that can put you ahead or put protoss in a bad spot. The matchup is literally impossible to win as a Terran player UNLESS the protoss makes a huge mistake and loses before the 5minute mark.
TY proved this by doing the exact same build every single game vs parting because there is no other way to win. You cannot early pressure effectively because of shield batteries and how OP they are. Its just not possible.
EPT
... that and the widow mine buff... first warchest I gonna skip.
