EPT4.12.0 Patch Notes - Page 6
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sznapa
Czech Republic8 Posts
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ilax30
720 Posts
On June 13 2020 20:14 Freeborn wrote: All you need to do is to put warpgate a bit later in the tech tree and then make sure that warp ins are slow and units take extra damage when warping in. That should balance it . Then remove forcefield or replace with a slowing ability and now we can have good gateway units. Let's have stalkers with proper damage and adepts with maybe survivability (armor) or manual shade triggering. Or maybe even give all of them +1 armor. Stalkers should be fragile but do damage, could have less starting range but +1 range in the lategame... So many options... People also like to forget how ridiculously imba mmm still is: - Anti air & ground - fast airborne with boost - insane dps with stim - self sustaining healing - can be comboed with ghosts for anti caster and instant 30%+ health of protoss Tactically it's superior to any other composition in the game. The thing with bio is it scales with how good the player is. Even high gm players eat ruptors shots and storm, dont know how to move their army properly and dont have the apm to two prong well enough to get most out of the bio army. So yes it can look broken and superior to every other composition when you see Clem play against zerg, split insanely well while at the mean time having a drop in the natural. But there is a reason only a few players in sc2 can control that army well enough. And most terran are just looking for a timing to end the game against both toss and zerg before it enters the lategame. As nearly every terran isnt comfortable fighting with a huge bio ball in the lategame against the splash which both zerg and toss lategame armies provide | ||
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Tastyyyy
Portugal95 Posts
On June 13 2020 23:41 ilax30 wrote: The thing with bio is it scales with how good the player is. Even high gm players eat ruptors shots and storm, dont know how to move their army properly and dont have the apm to two prong well enough to get most out of the bio army. So yes it can look broken and superior to every other composition when you see Clem play against zerg, split insanely well while at the mean time having a drop in the natural. But there is a reason only a few players in sc2 can control that army well enough. And most terran are just looking for a timing to end the game against both toss and zerg before it enters the lategame. As nearly every terran isnt comfortable fighting with a huge bio ball in the lategame against the splash which both zerg and toss lategame armies provide This guy is right, thats for sure. Bio is incredibly hard to control for low tear players. Its really hard to keep spliting, while getting marauders at the frontline and landing emps while you have to siege wm/tanks/liberators etc... | ||
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Freeborn
Germany421 Posts
And if you make an early ghost you have almost won... (Okay to be fair I'm not sure if it's still enough in diamond but in plat it is  )It's really not that hard, it may become almost impossible lategame if you try to fight with a huge army but that's not how you are supposed to use it. As you say it scales with player skill but it's already effective to use at lower skill levels and the problem is the other races and especially protoss does not have anything that can scale with skill like that. Speedlings are the the closest in utility to mmm IMO. And protoss players can't even scale effectiveness with superior multitasking because protoss armies still suck when split up and not using AoE and unit synergies + warpin reinforcements. | ||
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neptunusfisk
2286 Posts
Maybe not this much but you get the idea: https://tl.net/forum/starcraft-2-hots/381747-death-ball-bigger-radius-better-looking | ||
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RandomPlayer416
84 Posts
On June 14 2020 06:18 neptunusfisk wrote: I wish they'd consider making the radius bigger for some units. It would be a very cool change that could have nice effects on how splash units could be balanced. Maybe not this much but you get the idea: https://tl.net/forum/starcraft-2-hots/381747-death-ball-bigger-radius-better-looking Thats actually a really good idea and would add balance without making any changes to units. I'd say anything bigger than a marine should have some kind of invis radiance to prevent total clumping. Same with protoss, anything bigger than a zealot / adept has some kind of invis radius to it. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20276 Posts
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Slydie
1900 Posts
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naughtDE
158 Posts
On June 15 2020 02:27 Slydie wrote: Blink and WP use has a very high skill cap as well, as AlphaStar has shown us. FFs and storms come close, but ye, protoss players have fewer ways to really impress a viewer than the other races, unfortunately. They tend to rely more on trickery. I disagree. I don't find Terran players impressive, it is all hands no brains. That is like being into an awesome violin player, I am more impressed by the composer that is dead since 300 years. Stats ability to basically play quick "trickeries", or chess with a 200ms round timer is the most impressive thing I ever witnessed in Sc2. Or SoS or Has and even Nony on Ladder, to come up with a unique approach to the game and to not just do the same as every other player of the race 0.5% better. User was warned for this post. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20276 Posts
protoss players have fewer ways to really impress a viewer than the other races, unfortunately Don't agree with this, P has way more than its fair share of tight and unique timings - but the lower-end casters don't pay attention to any of it. | ||
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BerserkSword
United States2123 Posts
On June 13 2020 23:41 ilax30 wrote: The thing with bio is it scales with how good the player is. Even high gm players eat ruptors shots and storm, dont know how to move their army properly and dont have the apm to two prong well enough to get most out of the bio army. So yes it can look broken and superior to every other composition when you see Clem play against zerg, split insanely well while at the mean time having a drop in the natural. But there is a reason only a few players in sc2 can control that army well enough. And most terran are just looking for a timing to end the game against both toss and zerg before it enters the lategame. As nearly every terran isnt comfortable fighting with a huge bio ball in the lategame against the splash which both zerg and toss lategame armies provide You’re acting as if this doesn’t apply to Protoss and Zerg comps too. Zerg and Protoss armies scale with how good the players are too lol. The only difference is that bio is the most versatile and most cost efficient composition in the game (unless 200/200 mech or mass BC) and to top it off moves extremely fluidly. | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On June 15 2020 12:41 BerserkSword wrote: You’re acting as if this doesn’t apply to Protoss and Zerg comps too. Zerg and Protoss armies scale with how good the players are too lol. The only difference is that bio is the most versatile and most cost efficient composition in the game (unless 200/200 mech or mass BC) and to top it off moves extremely fluidly. That's asymmetrical balance for you. Bio is strong to make up for Terran's other weaknesses. Alternatively, Terran has other weaknesses to make up for bio's strength. Likewise for Protoss and Zerg. | ||
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Slydie
1900 Posts
On June 15 2020 05:46 naughtDE wrote: I disagree. I don't find Terran players impressive, it is all hands no brains. That is like being into an awesome violin player, I am more impressed by the composer that is dead since 300 years. Stats ability to basically play quick "trickeries", or chess with a 200ms round timer is the most impressive thing I ever witnessed in Sc2. Or SoS or Has and even Nony on Ladder, to come up with a unique approach to the game and to not just do the same as every other player of the race 0.5% better. User was warned for this post. TvT has been very close to PvP in terms of buildorder luck and early game trickery at times, and I did not enjoy it. I don't have any reason to claim one race is more strategically advanced than others atm. Yes, you probably have to know Protoss better than me to appreciate the skill of some of the timings, but I am not saying they have never impressed me! WP pickups, blink magic, razor sharp forge timings, storm drops and FF-doungnuts are all great things to watch. | ||
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followZeRoX
Serbia1449 Posts
On June 15 2020 07:05 Cyro wrote: Don't agree with this, P has way more than its fair share of tight and unique timings - but the lower-end casters don't pay attention to any of it. Exactly. Like everything is up to 1 good storm or disruptor shot. There is way more. Rotti brings up good points. | ||
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Vision_
846 Posts
On June 14 2020 11:17 RandomPlayer416 wrote: Thats actually a really good idea and would add balance without making any changes to units. I'd say anything bigger than a marine should have some kind of invis radiance to prevent total clumping. Same with protoss, anything bigger than a zealot / adept has some kind of invis radius to it. It could be a good idea if the size of units wasn t directly a part of the unit characteristic.. Ultralisk have problem to walk on the battlefield between buildings, Thors need space to move and deal damage... If you want to resolve the "marines split" #pgm, you have to tweaks Banes. There s some way to do it, many ideas without not changes so much banes but it s an issue if you modify too many unit sizes. Starbow seems also to include a new pathfinding but i don t know if the code doesn t have issues on the latency overall. | ||
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Lexender
Mexico2623 Posts
In case no one remembers the last time bio was nerfed they had to roll back the change because bio became too weak. So stop deluding yourselves. | ||
Nakajin
Canada8988 Posts
On June 18 2020 20:28 Lexender wrote: This idea that bio is this unbeatable comp of cost eeficiency has been proven to be false. In case no one remembers the last time bio was nerfed they had to roll back the change because bio became too weak. So stop deluding yourselves. I actually don't remember, what was the patch? | ||
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Lexender
Mexico2623 Posts
On June 18 2020 20:35 Nakajin wrote: I actually don't remember, what was the patch? The patch where they split the marauder attack in 2, it was even that big of a nerf and it still was rolled back. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20276 Posts
On June 19 2020 07:32 Lexender wrote: The patch where they split the marauder attack in 2, it was even that big of a nerf and it still was rolled back. Specifically - because of the ultralisk armor interaction. Ultras have 4 base armor so their effective DPS against them dropped sharply when that applied twice. They lost their ability to trade dominantly against ultralisks but other unit interactions didn't change in very important ways AFAIK. | ||
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Lexender
Mexico2623 Posts
On June 19 2020 18:09 Cyro wrote: Specifically - because of the ultralisk armor interaction. Ultras have 4 base armor so their effective DPS against them dropped sharply when that applied twice. They lost their ability to trade dominantly against ultralisks but other unit interactions didn't change in very important ways AFAIK. Also it made bio too weak in TvP, chronoing +1 armor, zealots 1 base armor and guardian shield (2 armor). | ||
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