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Ciaus_Dronu
South Africa1848 Posts
On June 12 2020 19:49 DrunkenJedi wrote: Quick question: When T loses all their armories do reloading widow mines lose their cloak? Yes, it seems so. They have a red indicator light to show that an armory exists, and it goes away if the Terran no longer has any armories. | ||
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Z3nith
485 Posts
On June 12 2020 19:55 Ciaus_Dronu wrote: Yes, it seems so. They have a red indicator light to show that an armory exists, and it goes away if the Terran no longer has any armories. That could make for some interesting interactions. | ||
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Vision_
846 Posts
WM are cheap, small cost supply and punishing cause they hits multiple while they could fire once (as a spell.. BW) Banes are punishing and small cost supply units but the most expensive units anyway, WM or Banes you haven t so much to do to use it... | ||
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naughtDE
158 Posts
On June 12 2020 19:51 pvsnp wrote: It's called asymmetric balance. It's not equivalent because it's not supposed to be equivalent, it's supposed to be asymmetric. And balanced. Last I checked, Protoss winrates are more or less fine against Terran. Widow mines and all. Now if you were talking about a Zerg unit, say banelings, you might have more of a point. And whoa, what a surprise, this patch nerfed banelings. Funny how that works. You completely missed the point. Sure TvP is fine from a winrate standpoint, does not mean disruptors or widowmines are fun to play against. In the OP I answered too, SC-Shield compared widow mines to oracles and that only makes sense if you remember the old oracles that 2 shot workers. They got nerfed...widow mines got buffed and they are one of the 3 most hated units. | ||
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Andi_Goldberger
Germany1608 Posts
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Ciaus_Dronu
South Africa1848 Posts
On June 12 2020 21:52 Andi_Goldberger wrote: I dont understand why they buffed the mine when it is used in every matchup except TvT. It was in a fine spot, now its stronger for no reason Don't forget that at some point in its history they also made it faster to produce, so one reactored factory can pump out more of the things than when mines were originally added in HotS, and it's not like they were bad then either. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20276 Posts
On June 12 2020 21:39 naughtDE wrote: You completely missed the point. Sure TvP is fine from a winrate standpoint, does not mean disruptors or widowmines are fun to play against. In the OP I answered too, SC-Shield compared widow mines to oracles and that only makes sense if you remember the old oracles that 2 shot workers. They got nerfed...widow mines got buffed and they are one of the 3 most hated units. Pre buff On May 19 2020 01:17 Cyro wrote: | ||
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stilt
France2736 Posts
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Andi_Goldberger
Germany1608 Posts
On June 12 2020 23:00 stilt wrote: I actually vastly prefer wm over siege tank which is kind of a super boring unit and don't provide as much as micro interaction in zvt. I do aswell. They were already meta tho. It was a fine unit. This change just makes the game more frustrating for no reason | ||
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Beelzebub1
1004 Posts
Shroud is very strong, and not requiring an upgrade is insane, but the Queen nerf combined with the bane nerf might make Zerg feel very brittle against air play and holding bio pushes. Not that Zerg wasn't probably overtuned, but this might under tune them. | ||
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MockHamill
Sweden1798 Posts
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Decendos
Germany1338 Posts
On June 13 2020 01:09 Beelzebub1 wrote: We'll have to see how it goes, but these are a slew of pretty serious nerfs to Zerg and I'm sure the win rates will show us how the state of the game really is in the coming weeks. Shroud is very strong, and not requiring an upgrade is insane, but the Queen nerf combined with the bane nerf might make Zerg feel very brittle against air play and holding bio pushes. Not that Zerg wasn't probably overtuned, but this might under tune them. Shroud is very strong? You do need it only in late game maybe and there an upgrade isn't the problem. Infestors just suck they need IT back to do something in midgame for example Vs tanks or to harass. Just don't make it hit air or less dmg to air. | ||
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Andi_Goldberger
Germany1608 Posts
On June 13 2020 01:35 Decendos wrote: Shroud is very strong? You do need it only in late game maybe and there an upgrade isn't the problem. Infestors just suck they need IT back to do something in midgame for example Vs tanks or to harass. Just don't make it hit air or less dmg to air. please dont give IT back, they have been either super OP or super useless at all times. Try another ability maybe, just not IT. | ||
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Decendos
Germany1338 Posts
On June 13 2020 03:09 Andi_Goldberger wrote: please dont give IT back, they have been either super OP or super useless at all times. Try another ability maybe, just not IT. Yeah another useful ability for midgame would also be great. For a lair tech unit they are just 100 percent useless. Could also be a hive tech unit and no difference lol. Give them something to be a choice in midgame. For example shroud reduces all singe target damage not only air damage. | ||
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Freeborn
Germany421 Posts
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Freeborn
Germany421 Posts
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sparklyresidue
United States5522 Posts
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On June 13 2020 04:17 Freeborn wrote: But first give protoss gateway units more oomph. Sure, just remove warpgate. | ||
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Snakestyle11
191 Posts
I always thought warpgate should be redesigned. Warpgate should be a hero building ( can only have one of at a time). Starts with 4 charges, with an upgrade to make it 6 charges. Gateways should be the main production. If protoss can have insane defender advantage with shield batteries, then they should not negate defender advantage of their opponent with warp prism and infinite instant warp ins. You could def tweak gateway units if needed, and maybe allow gateways to be able to make immortals. Then remove recall or add counter play like back when it was mothership core (u could actually stop them from recalling by killing mama core or abducting it). Maybe then ZvP would be more like ZvT bio when players trade armies many times without it being game over for one side. Really wish they would try to make ZvP have less seemingly 1 sided stomps where one army just rolls for the win. Right now armies avoid each other for a long time trying to kill workers, then theres one battle and its GG. | ||
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Freeborn
Germany421 Posts
That should balance it . Then remove forcefield or replace with a slowing ability and now we can have good gateway units. Let's have stalkers with proper damage and adepts with maybe survivability (armor) or manual shade triggering. Or maybe even give all of them +1 armor. Stalkers should be fragile but do damage, could have less starting range but +1 range in the lategame... So many options... People also like to forget how ridiculously imba mmm still is: - Anti air & ground - fast airborne with boost - insane dps with stim - self sustaining healing - can be comboed with ghosts for anti caster and instant 30%+ health of protoss Tactically it's superior to any other composition in the game. | ||
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