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On June 10 2020 19:57 ejozl wrote:
Would love to see the Widow Mine change just cut, T is already OP, also Thor anti air vs Massive is still just kind of stupid.
As a Protoss this patch is pretty nice, but I would still like to see Zergs in tournaments.
Really the Widow Mine should have a design rework, Hellbats are supposed to deal with mass Zealots and Lings, and Widow Mine should wreck stuff like Medivacs and always be stealthed, but I acknowledge this will take a bit more careful thinking.
I agree that widow mines is designed for the "scene" and it s a punishing unit but all things considered, if you didn t watch carefully the upgrade was mandatory in too many "builds in TvZ" (regarding Clem) so the team decided to cut it in two parts in order to avoid this.
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On June 10 2020 09:11 pvsnp wrote:Show nested quote +Fixed an issue where hallucinations were dealing damage to targets affected by the Raven's Anti-Armor missile. Aww, that was one of my favorite bugs.
Reminds me in Broodwar 1.04 hallucination Corrupters would send real "violet" stuff on the enemies.
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I predict every Terran will open mine drop with a fast armory for a couple of weeks, then every Protoss will get an observer on time and mine drops will change back to the pre patch situation.
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Infestor
Microbial Shroud no longer requires an upgrade.
game changer right there :p
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Dominican Republic610 Posts
i love the changes, people need to understand that is very easy for Z to be in the game and dont have to worry about basically anything, now they need to rethink when they are engaging a terran army since baneling won't be able to deal with everything.
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Is there any info on how the earnings from the Warchest are distributed? Will it bring extra moneys for tournament prize pools?
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On June 10 2020 19:57 ejozl wrote:
Would love to see the Widow Mine change just cut, T is already OP, also Thor anti air vs Massive is still just kind of stupid.
As a Protoss this patch is pretty nice, but I would still like to see Zergs in tournaments.
Really the Widow Mine should have a design rework, Hellbats are supposed to deal with mass Zealots and Lings, and Widow Mine should wreck stuff like Medivacs and always be stealthed, but I acknowledge this will take a bit more careful thinking.
Yeah terran is so overpowered they choose to proxy and 1 base/2base all-in toss most of the time relying on mostly gambles instead of playing a straight up late game. Pretty weird for a race thats completely broken right?
Anyhow the shield battery change will help toss in stopping these pushes which involves a low unit count from both races meaning there will likely be more lategame TvP's in which toss have been looking very strong lately with the addition of blink dt's wrecking the terran every time they try to move out. So please sir, calm down and take a sip.
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On June 10 2020 21:29 BonitiilloO wrote:
i love the changes, people need to understand that is very easy for Z to be in the game and dont have to worry about basically anything, now they need to rethink when they are engaging a terran army since baneling won't be able to deal with everything.
and you need to understand that you dont start a message with 'people need to understand' if you clearly dont understand anything yourself.
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On June 10 2020 22:59 hiroshOne wrote:
R.I.P. Zerg.
Wowers. Between the widow mine change and the queen change I'm a little bit spooked.
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On June 10 2020 23:08 freelifeffs wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2020 21:29 BonitiilloO wrote:
i love the changes, people need to understand that is very easy for Z to be in the game and dont have to worry about basically anything, now they need to rethink when they are engaging a terran army since baneling won't be able to deal with everything. and you need to understand that you dont start a message with 'people need to understand' if you clearly dont understand anything yourself.
do tell, explain it to us then.
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United States11944 Posts
Honestly Widow Mines are a mistake. There's just no fixing that they're significantly significantly the unit with the worst ratio of "ability to use" versus "ability to defend against" with absurdly high use cases and ease of access and next to no counter-balances (I.E banelings counter balances are their lack of hitting air and their single use only).
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On June 11 2020 00:09 chipmonklord17 wrote:
Honestly Widow Mines are a mistake. There's just no fixing that they're significantly significantly the unit with the worst ratio of "ability to use" versus "ability to defend against" with absurdly high use cases and ease of access and next to no counter-balances (I.E banelings counter balances are their lack of hitting air and their single use only).
I would say a big counter balance is them dealing friendly fire. Can damage loads of bio or even kill a chunk of marines which happens in pro play all the time.
And at a lower lvl players have a tougher time dealing with widow mines, then again the terrans there kill their own units way more than at a higher lvl which evens it up a bit as well
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On June 11 2020 00:09 chipmonklord17 wrote:
Honestly Banelings are a mistake. There's just no fixing that they're significantly the unit with the worst ratio of "ability to use" versus "ability to defend against" with absurdly high use cases and ease of access and next to no counter-balances (I.E splitting takes so much more effort / APM than just A-moving into a clump of units).
fixed it for you.
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United States11944 Posts
On June 11 2020 00:32 GrandSmurf wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2020 00:09 chipmonklord17 wrote:
Honestly Banelings are a mistake. There's just no fixing that they're significantly the unit with the worst ratio of "ability to use" versus "ability to defend against" with absurdly high use cases and ease of access and next to no counter-balances (I.E splitting takes so much more effort / APM than just A-moving into a clump of units). fixed it for you.
Lol what?
Banelings:
LITERALLY DIE on use
Can be split against
Require a speed upgrade to not get dumpstered by anyone doing any kind of splitting
Slower speed off creep
Cannot hit air
Are bad against Mech/Immortals/Marauders
Require Larva, which is the same resource as Drones
Require +2 attack to one shot workers
Have splash damage
Mines:
Can be used infinitely
Can be invisible and will automatically work with no player activation while underground
Massive Splash damage
Made out of a reactor
Can be used in literally any comp against literally any units at literally any time in the game and be useful
Cannot hit buildings
Friendly Fire
1 shot workers at any point in the game
Any comparison to Zerg for the sake of balance whine, you may as well use old BLord Infestor because I'd totally agree with you. Using banelings as an example is hilarious, given all of their natural weaknesses to balance out what they can do
On June 11 2020 00:28 ilax30 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2020 00:09 chipmonklord17 wrote:
Honestly Widow Mines are a mistake. There's just no fixing that they're significantly significantly the unit with the worst ratio of "ability to use" versus "ability to defend against" with absurdly high use cases and ease of access and next to no counter-balances (I.E banelings counter balances are their lack of hitting air and their single use only). I would say a big counter balance is them dealing friendly fire. Can damage loads of bio or even kill a chunk of marines which happens in pro play all the time. And at a lower lvl players have a tougher time dealing with widow mines, then again the terrans there kill their own units way more than at a higher lvl which evens it up a bit as well
Never really considered friendly fire as such an enormous counter balance to make them a well designed unit, but that's a good point
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On June 11 2020 00:08 GrandSmurf wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2020 23:08 freelifeffs wrote:On June 10 2020 21:29 BonitiilloO wrote:
i love the changes, people need to understand that is very easy for Z to be in the game and dont have to worry about basically anything, now they need to rethink when they are engaging a terran army since baneling won't be able to deal with everything. and you need to understand that you dont start a message with 'people need to understand' if you clearly dont understand anything yourself. do tell, explain it to us then.
whats there to explain? its obviously biased and idiotic thinking to say stuff like 'zerg doesnt need to worry about anything' and 'zerg doesnt need to think and can just always engage no matter how and what'. stuff like that is not productive for any kind of discussion and people who think like that have no right to tell others they 'need to understand' things first.
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United Kingdom20276 Posts
Widow mine change needs to go IMO, making one of the clearly worst designed units more dominant
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On June 11 2020 00:40 chipmonklord17 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2020 00:32 GrandSmurf wrote:On June 11 2020 00:09 chipmonklord17 wrote:
Honestly Banelings are a mistake. There's just no fixing that they're significantly the unit with the worst ratio of "ability to use" versus "ability to defend against" with absurdly high use cases and ease of access and next to no counter-balances (I.E splitting takes so much more effort / APM than just A-moving into a clump of units). fixed it for you. Lol what? Banelings: LITERALLY DIE on use Can be split against Require a speed upgrade to not get dumpstered by anyone doing any kind of splitting Slower speed off creep Cannot hit air Are bad against Mech/Immortals/Marauders Require Larva, which is the same resource as Drones Require +2 attack to one shot workers Have splash damage Mines: Can be used infinitely Can be invisible and will automatically work with no player activation while underground Massive Splash damage Made out of a reactor Can be used in literally any comp against literally any units at literally any time in the game and be useful Cannot hit buildings Friendly Fire 1 shot workers at any point in the game Any comparison to Zerg for the sake of balance whine, you may as well use old BLord Infestor because I'd totally agree with you. Using banelings as an example is hilarious, given all of their natural weaknesses to balance out what they can do Show nested quote +On June 11 2020 00:28 ilax30 wrote:On June 11 2020 00:09 chipmonklord17 wrote:
Honestly Widow Mines are a mistake. There's just no fixing that they're significantly significantly the unit with the worst ratio of "ability to use" versus "ability to defend against" with absurdly high use cases and ease of access and next to no counter-balances (I.E banelings counter balances are their lack of hitting air and their single use only). I would say a big counter balance is them dealing friendly fire. Can damage loads of bio or even kill a chunk of marines which happens in pro play all the time. And at a lower lvl players have a tougher time dealing with widow mines, then again the terrans there kill their own units way more than at a higher lvl which evens it up a bit as well Never really considered friendly fire as such an enormous counter balance to make them a well designed unit, but that's a good point
Goddam, you dumpstered that guy into oblivion. But yeah, like BL/Infestor, Swarmhosts, etc (which were all rightly nerfed), mines are exponentially harder to play against than use, with no real counters, at all levels of play. Banelings would fall more into this category if they didn't die upon use--also, they're basically the only supply-efficient unit Zerg has in non-mirrors these days.
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The mine change does nothing if you get an observer or an oracle.
Terran and Zerg need to get detection why should Protoss be any different?
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On June 11 2020 02:23 Rubicant1 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2020 00:40 chipmonklord17 wrote:On June 11 2020 00:32 GrandSmurf wrote:On June 11 2020 00:09 chipmonklord17 wrote:
Honestly Banelings are a mistake. There's just no fixing that they're significantly the unit with the worst ratio of "ability to use" versus "ability to defend against" with absurdly high use cases and ease of access and next to no counter-balances (I.E splitting takes so much more effort / APM than just A-moving into a clump of units). fixed it for you. Lol what? Banelings: LITERALLY DIE on use Can be split against Require a speed upgrade to not get dumpstered by anyone doing any kind of splitting Slower speed off creep Cannot hit air Are bad against Mech/Immortals/Marauders Require Larva, which is the same resource as Drones Require +2 attack to one shot workers Have splash damage Mines: Can be used infinitely Can be invisible and will automatically work with no player activation while underground Massive Splash damage Made out of a reactor Can be used in literally any comp against literally any units at literally any time in the game and be useful Cannot hit buildings Friendly Fire 1 shot workers at any point in the game Any comparison to Zerg for the sake of balance whine, you may as well use old BLord Infestor because I'd totally agree with you. Using banelings as an example is hilarious, given all of their natural weaknesses to balance out what they can do On June 11 2020 00:28 ilax30 wrote:On June 11 2020 00:09 chipmonklord17 wrote:
Honestly Widow Mines are a mistake. There's just no fixing that they're significantly significantly the unit with the worst ratio of "ability to use" versus "ability to defend against" with absurdly high use cases and ease of access and next to no counter-balances (I.E banelings counter balances are their lack of hitting air and their single use only). I would say a big counter balance is them dealing friendly fire. Can damage loads of bio or even kill a chunk of marines which happens in pro play all the time. And at a lower lvl players have a tougher time dealing with widow mines, then again the terrans there kill their own units way more than at a higher lvl which evens it up a bit as well Never really considered friendly fire as such an enormous counter balance to make them a well designed unit, but that's a good point Goddam, you dumpstered that guy into oblivion. But yeah, like BL/Infestor, Swarmhosts, etc (which were all rightly nerfed), mines are exponentially harder to play against than use, with no real counters, at all levels of play. Banelings would fall more into this category if they didn't die upon use--also, they're basically the only supply-efficient unit Zerg has in non-mirrors these days.
i dont feel particularly dumpster fired though :O.
banelings are more useful than ducttape. they will fix most issues without too much effort.
also, uses literally 3 times in one sentence. i cant take that seriously in any context. also since it not true.
and the only one who is balance whining was the poster i responded to.
ill concede i was being snarky and not entirely serious. i do take great pride in the fact he was probably frothing from the mouth when he posted that comment. heh.
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EPT
